caulfield12

QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 10:56 AM) For all the complaints about the Sox being a softball team that can't score runs without hitting homers... How does adding a guy with a .300 OBP (that can occasionally knock the ball out of the park if he connects) really help us? Isn't that just more of the same 'ol that everyone curses at the Sox for? We've got bangers. We need more people who can get on base in front of them... and people not prone to going into long early season slumps. If we had Young back here, I could just picture it... people would be piling on calling him an outfield version of Uribe. Adios Chris Young... and take your 'legend' with you. All those things said... 1) Young is a very good defensive CFer, minus a plus arm 2) He can definitely go 1st to 3rd on singles, and 1st to home on doubles 3) He has a lot more upside than Nick Swisher, because Swisher isn't a natural CFer 4) A better comparison with Uribe would be Brian Anderson, if he was to play on an everday basis...except Anderson would hit 15-18 homers, not 30+.

I guess it comes down to whether we'd be better off with someone like Byrd, Maddux or Washburn than Vazquez next season. Anthony Reyes and Blanton were out there...Chad Gaudin. Not very much to get overly excited about. But that's the state of pitching in the game today. To the Twins, Washburn (and his contract), was definitely not worth parting with for either Blackburn or Perkins.

Cashman's not dumb. You don't trade someone with that talent (Justin Upton would be another example) based on one down/disappointing year, lack of hustle, lethargic play, etc. The guy should/could be competing for the batting title year after year. It's not as if Poreda is even one of the consensus Top 50 minor league prospects in baseball. It will take a lot more than Poreda.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:50 AM) The only thing that you could get on Ozzie for is if he calls pitch selection and/or not pinch hitting Swisher for Uribe. It really wasnt a game where managers decided it, more was decided by the players on the field, and in this case the Sox being unable to score runs with 2 outs versus the Rays being able to. Who were you planning to play 3B if you pinch-hit in the 7th? You'd have a subpar defender, on turf, for at least two and maybe more innings. Uribe is a very good fastball hitter, and Swisher, with the lack of playing time, I don't know how he's going to get Balfour. Yes, he got Zumaya, but that was when he was getting regular AB's.

We're not the Red Sox. With Ramirez's success and so many erroneous scouting reports projecting him as a fringe player or utility guy, every team will look over all these prospects with a fine tooth comb. No scouts want to be made to look foolish twice in a row. The Ramirez contract might turn out to be the best bargain in sports over the life of it. We're not going to easily unearth another diamond in the rough this time.

Who would you look at for fifth starter next year? I'm already penciling Richard in at #4, lol. 1) Broadway 2) Carrasco 3) Horacio Ramirez 4) Vazquez 5) FA 6) Trade 7) Poreda 8) Egbert 9) Haeger 10) Sisco 11) MacDougal

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 08:09 AM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/youngch04.shtml it's a wash trade as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you save money with Young, but the Sox are a top 10 payroll team, so Javy's contract won't cripple them. Javy is fine as a 4-5 starter and Young is an average offensive player with plus defense He was the #12 MLB CFer in terms of OPS, and that doesn't really take into account/factor in stolen bases and his defensive abilities (minus the arm). And this was admittedly a downer/disappointing season for Young and the D-Backs. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...ull&minpa=0

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 07:44 AM) +4. I love it when you analyze. Free up $11.5 million for Vazquez, $4.5 million for Uribe, $8 million for Cabrera and $5 million for Crede and you've got $29 million. If insurance pays off 60% of Contreras, you've got $35 million. Even with raises to folks like Jenks, Swisher etc., the Sox would have a bunch of money to spend in the offseason if they wanted to keep the budget flat (I'm assuming they do). I think the Sox will have to pay Thome his full salary next year (i.e., he gets a $8 million increase from the payroll perspective as Philly will not contribute another $8 million to the option year), so my guess is that they have probably $20 million or so to throw at free agents if they dumb Vazquez, Uribe, Crede & Cabrera. That will land them pretty much any of the big names on the market, or even two lesser names. Think Orlando Hudson at $8 million or so and Jon Garland at $11 million. 1) Who would be interested in Vazquez, assuming we basically give him away to the top bidder? 2) If we let Uribe go, is Getz then our "supersub" or do we find another player through trade or FA? Bring Ozuna back? Find another Cuban, lol? 3) Is there serious consideration being given to either Anderson or Fields ever being regular players for the Sox again? 4) Would we really want Garland back? Would he even want to come back? 5) Would anyone be interested in signing Freddy Garcia again...if his contract was almost 100% incentives-based? 6) What if Cabrera is offered arbitration and accepts it? What then, lol? It will be like Kiffin and Al Davis! Doubt that happens, though. 7) Who's the starting 3B if you shed Uribe and sign Hudson and a pitcher? 8) Where do you put Ramirez next year? SS seems the most logical, since it's easier to find a 2B more cheaply and his offensive potential is a huge net plus coming from that position.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 07:30 AM) Thank you very much Jermaine Dye, Shingo Takatsu, and Tadahito Iguchi for keeping up from signing Fukudome. KW offered him the most money, but he wanted to only play RF and play on a team where no other Japanese player had played before. I was pissed we didn't get him to play center but turns out we got lucky he didn't sign with us. And about the CBY trade, Javy is our 4th best starter. Compare him to other #4 starters in the league, and I think it is definitely good we have him, and he still takes the ball every five days, even if it seems to be reluctantly. We win one game in the Metrodome, and then we get to set up our rotation, and then he doesnt have to pitch until Game 4, it was the Sox fault he had to pitch game 1. And I have no doubt Young has the potential to be a star, but right now he would be the last thing this team needs in the lineup, another guy who doesn't get on base very often and seems to constantly swing for the fences. But, if KW can come up with Danks and Floyd, who's to say he can't find two better options with $20 million plus that would be going to Vazquez and Contreras? We are so lucky to have Floyd and Danks at reasonable payroll levels, they are the ONLY things that make Vazquez and Contreras and Buehrle a possibility in the rotation. That said, we had about $55 million sunk in Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland and El Duque...which is just TOO much for any team, except for the top 2-3 payrolls in MLB. We can rationalize that Vazquez is okay as an innings-eater and 4th/5th starter, but at $11.5 million, there simply are too many better and more logical options out there, whether through trade or FA.

Kind of an aside, but this is a very interesting article, FWIW. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...tors/index.html BP tried to measure the factors that most account for post-season success, and rated defense, closer and strikeout pitching/pitchers as the three most important individual categories/predictors. Actually, our rating was just ahead of TB and sixth in the majors. Of course, our weakest point is defense and speed. (Although Javier is probably our biggest "asset" in these rankings as a strikeout pitcher, yet anyone who's watched him for 3 seasons knows those numbers always come with caveats). If we put a line-up out there with Crede (healthy), Uribe at SS, Ramirez at 2B, Swisher at 1B, Anderson in CF...with Dye and Quentin on the corners, we'd be in much better shape. But then we'd lose Konerko's offensive numbers, which wouldn't be offset by the defensive gain by having Swisher there. We just don't have any easy answers at the corner outfield spots and with AJ's throwing (although 50% relates to Floyd/Contreras/Jenks, Vazquez doing a horrible job of holding runners on or paying attention to them once they reach).

Anyone pretty happy about right now we weren't able to sign Fukudome? That one definitely went KW's way. If Piniella has a doghouse this late in the season, Kosiuke definitely just found his way there.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 07:50 AM) Relaxed. I had zero expectations of them making the playoffs to begin the season. I thought they were finished this time last week. I'll be excited if they advance, and I'll be more nervous if they are playing an elimination game. But other than that, I'm just enjoying seeing the Sox play some October baseball this year. If you add that on top of all of the positives this year (Buehrle back on track, Floyd and Danks really stepping up, strong AL MVP and ROY contenders in Quentin and Alexi), it's a good season no matter how it ends. I'm not one of those fans happier if the Cubs lose than the White Sox win...but watching yesterday's defensively fiasco unfold was sweet. They've now lost 8 games in a row in the playoffs. Pretty incredible. All season long, the talk was if the White Sox would be good enough to make the playoffs and face the Cubs? The question now is how bad will all the Cubs' fans feel if we advance at least one series, or, heaven forbid, get back into the World Series again. I think we have about a 30-35% chance of winning this series, which was right around the odds for us to take the AL Central after last Saturday's Vazquez disaster. Thankfully, John Danks was embarassed by his Friday effort and wanted to hide from the world, while Vazquez, once again, is acting like it was no big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Kazmir threw a shutout, and I wouldn't be surprised if we won either. Its been that kind of a season, all year long. Almost no consistency from game-to-game, except for the pitching in our three elimination games being stellar, and our bullpen handling the job as well.

Knowing what he knows now? Would the White Sox be in better shape with Chris Young for the next five years than Brian Anderson in CF...? Do you consider the trade to be Young/Vizcaino/Carter for Vazquez, money and Carlos Quentin (one of the reasons Quentin was dealt was due to Young's 2007 season)? Young's salary (because of the pre-emptive five year deal he signed) for the following years: $1.75 million in 2009, $3.25 million in 2010, $5 million in 2011, $7 million in 2012 and $8.5 million in 2013. Can we bet a better CFer for the same amount of money? Can we consider the trade a success, because we made the playoffs with Javier on the team? Can the D-Backs also consider it a success already, after last season? How much did not having Vizcaino on the team hurt in 06? I almost got the feeling that KW wanted to make this trade work so badly, that he gave Javier another contract, which is now looking quite questionable...and I guess we could say the same thing for Contreras, although Jose's deal was also a little bit about "reward" for 05/06 also. Personally, because we've had such poor luck developing homegrown players that have major league impacts, I really would have liked to hold onto Young. Yes, he strikes out too much. Yes, he doesn't have a very good arm. Yes, he has a low OBP. The closest player we've had (recently) to Young was Mike Cameron, and we also traded him, interestingly enough. You have to go back to Buehrle/Crede/Rowand, then Ordonez/Carlos Lee....and Ray Durham, that's about the sum total of players we've developed in our system the last 15 years, in terms of players that have had huge impacts on the major league roster.

I have a sense that if we held the lead to two runs (I think Clayton gave up a single up the middle to Crawford) that we would have been in a much better position to come back and win. (Of course, overall, Clayton pitched a wonderful game). The TB pitching staff is too good...with the exception of Wheeler and Howell, I'm convinced they are vulnerable. I remember when the Royals drafted him, and I saw him pitch in KC, most of his pitches were 82-85 and I thought of the White Sox drafting Broadway and McCulloch in the late first round as well. But, lo and behold, there's a former Royals relief pitcher (not named Carrasco, Ramirez, MacDougal, Sisco) who's gone out there and had a very good season. Howell, with his stuff (what was Harold Reynolds talking about???), is never going to get it done as a starter, but he's very good (I think of him and Jamie Walker in a similar vein) in his role.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 06:37 AM) I think Javy's performances remind people every day of that garbage. One difference, the Sox weren't paying that garbage $11.5 million a year like they are the current collection of rubbish. At least with Richard, Poreda...maybe even Broadway and Carrasco, you have a HOPE they can get it done. The results don't see foreordained before the game even begins.

QUOTE (G&T @ Oct 3, 2008 -> 06:22 AM) No. Vazquez was the right move. I'm pissed at OC this morning more than Vazquez. He was brought in for the purpose of getting THAT hit with the bases loaded and 2 out in the playoffs. Instead...nothing. Not to mention he did about the only thing you could do (besides striking out) not to score a run with runners on 2nd and 3rd...fortunately, in that situation, Wise really bailed him out. Cabrera's trying to be a leader in an effort to take the team on his shoulders, I just don't think he has the respect of enough of the team to do that. The Buehrles, Dyes, Konerkos, Thomes, Griffeys, AJ's, Credes won't allow it...I think perhaps there is some resentment even about his explicitly and publicly attempting to do that, because they care (the veteran Sox players) more about the team winning than individual goals. Or at least they usually come off that way 95% of the time. When you leave the stadium right away after every game and almost never grant interview requests, you're allowing the media and fans to create the wrong impression, simply by not countering with one of your own. The comments (alleged) to Morneau at first base in the final series against the Twins...both Javier and Cabrera are not exactly the most popular Sox players at this point, among fans or in the clubhouse. I'm sure Anderson, Hall and Swisher will have a few things to say (maybe not on the record) after he is gone to a team that makes his heart beat faster. I also sense the tension between Guillen and Cabrera, it has been there all season long. Not so coincidentally, they're both from neighboring S. American countries and played the same position.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 11:18 PM) thought they struggled against lefties? ah, must be lefties not named Mark Buehrle: APR19: 7IP, 12H, 5 ER JUN01: 6IP, 7H, 3 ER gross, we need to hope our hitters show up against kazmir The only near-certainty coming into this series was Javier. I remember writing about Danks' history against the Twins, and obviously, all of that was thrown out the window with the adrenaline of pitching in the playoffs/post-season. Same reason we see Jenks look like a monster when he's very hittable during the regular season. I think MB will be fine. It's just a question of which Kazmir shows up (not unlike the VP Debate last night)...and whether our offense can manufacture any runs or not without the homerun ball. It would be, for about the 1,000,000th time, nice to have Carlos Quentin to use against Kazmir. Oh, well. I don't want him coming back too early and re-injuring himself.

I saw some of the threads yesterday, and I was just curious where this idea comes from... Because he started Vazquez over Richard? Well, I wonder how many of us, if we were managing the Sox, would have actually made the same decision? It's easy to say in hindsight, and Richard did acquit himself very well yesterday, but you can't compare pitching under pressure with a lead or tie game and a three run deficit. I also felt the Rays were starting to get his number the second time around, and he would undoubtedly have given up 3-4 runs as well in the middle innings. Not to mention the fact that Pena, one of the Rays' biggest weapons and a better match-up for the lefty Richard, was already out of the line-up due to the eye scratch. Many thought Ozzie should have started Anderson or Swisher over Wise. Starting Wise might have been the smartest thing Ozzie did yesterday. Anderson wet the bed and looked like a deer in the headlights against Howell, I don't think he even swung the bat once...I know he was attempting to draw a walk and get on base, but not even one swing? The ball that Iwamura hit over Griffey's head, I am sure some will argue would have been caught by Anderson, but I'm doubtful about that one. And there's certainly no defense for the faster turf fields and homerun balls. There were some positives, Clayton Richard was the biggest one (although I'm not sure if he should be a starter or the Nick Masset out of next year's pen to the begin the season). With the fact that Logan/Ramirez don't look serviceable, I wouldn't be surprised if he's the second lefty. A lot depends on what KW does with Vazquez, if they give Broadway/Carrasco/Poreda a serious look in the spring and any FA signings or trades. I'm fine with Richard starting or in the pen, I think he's earned a place on next year's team, fwiw. Wise got some confidence back, and Konerko continues to impress over the final six weeks. Also, if they have to go to Wheeler, we elevated his pitch count and worked him every at-bat in the 9th, so maybe that will have adverse consequences if they go to him for two consecutive games. At least we put up some offense, the 2000 playoffs were undoubtedly more frustrating than this. I felt more resigned to this loss than anything, but I will still thinking Roberto Clemente Ramirez might get on and we could tie it up in the 9th. I guess the big thing the game will be remembered for are the strikeouts of Uribe and Cabrera's confrontation/K against Balfour. Look at it this way, if the Twins held onto Grant and he pitched this way for them, we would have finished 5-7 games behind Minnesota in the standings, EASILY. Then we would only be on the outside looking in, dreaming of the playoffs. And we haven't self-destructed/imploded/choked like the Cubs have, on their home field, for two consecutive games. We just saw something with about a 90% probability before the game (Vazquez sucking) come home to roost...but we were still in the game, the offense just couldn't get it done and we had to put up at least 2 runs in the 7th but didn't get it done. That happens. We come back tomorrow and try again. We don't have anything to hang our heads about, and I actually like the amped up passion/rivalry we might have with the Rays as a result of this series. Better than remembering TB for spanking Billy Koch dead-straight fastballs into the bleachers, I suppose.

Imagine if Cabrera gets a hit or even a double/triple in that situation. I don't have any problems...sometimes our team needs a little controversy to get dialed in and focused, whether it's self-manufactured or not. You also have to blame Uribe and Thome with not coming through with RISP. It wasn't a great game, but none of us expected a win, and the White Sox just aren't a turf team, period. Our franchise never has been, going back to the 93 playoffs against the Blue Jays. Most fans agree with everything Couch said, and it is unusual to see it expressed so directly/empthatically. The thing is, he's still on our roster and none of this makes it any easier for KW to find someone to take his contract off our hands, let alone get something of value back in return. In fact, I'm afraid we might end up holding onto Vazquez as our fifth starter until at least July of next year, when Contreras' status is more clear. Of course, it will be the final season of Jose's deal as well, and you don't see any kind of scenario where KW offers him (Jose) another deal...unless he just absolutely comes back in 2005/06 form, then you might see a one year deal with a mutual option for 2011. But I HIGHLY doubt that will happen.

QUOTE (Frank the Tank 35 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 11:59 PM) No more Chad Tracy fantasies? Similar OPS to Beltre and close to 0 value to the D'backs at this point... granted his defense isn't so hot... Why settle for just McLouth?... fill the 5th starter hole and buy low on Snell! Trade Swisher at his lowest value? Meh... Buy lows... Robinson Cano? Homer Bailey? Alex Gordon? Ryan Zimmerman? KW's gotta fill three positions this offseason... SP, 3B, and one of SS/2B. It won't all get done on the FA market. It won't all get done by trades. Figure we have enough ammo for one good trade, one good FA acquisition, and one crapshoot. No way we get Cano and the Royals won't dream of dealing Gordon, either. If you want Mark Teahen/Joe Randa at 3B, then that's the best we're going to be able to come up with. Gordon is still viewed by Dayton Moore as their franchise player, along with Greinke, Hochevar, Moustakas and Hosmer. He went to the University of Nebraska...and is a midwest kid. Maybe, maybe, if he puts up identical numbers to his first two seasons in 2009 again, they'll at least THINK of moving him. I also think the Reds aren't going to give up on Bailey yet, same with the Dodgers and Kershaw, and the Yankees (Hughes/Kennedy).

QUOTE (Frank the Tank 35 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 11:59 PM) No more Chad Tracy fantasies? Similar OPS to Beltre and close to 0 value to the D'backs at this point... granted his defense isn't so hot... Why settle for just McLouth?... fill the 5th starter hole and buy low on Snell! Trade Swisher at his lowest value? Meh... Buy lows... Robinson Cano? Homer Bailey? Alex Gordon? Ryan Zimmerman? KW's gotta fill three positions this offseason... SP, 3B, and one of SS/2B. It won't all get done on the FA market. It won't all get done by trades. Figure we have enough ammo for one good trade, one good FA acquisition, and one crapshoot. No way we get Cano and the Royals won't dream of dealing Gordon, either. If you want Mark Teahen/Joe Randa at 3B, then that's the best we're going to be able to come up with. Gordon is still viewed by Dayton Moore as their franchise player, along with Greinke, Hochevar, Moustakas and Hosmer. He went to the University of Nebraska...and is a midwest kid. Maybe, maybe, if he puts up identical numbers to his first two seasons in 2009 again, they'll at least THINK of moving him. I also think the Reds aren't going to give up on Bailey yet, same with the Dodgers and Kershaw, and the Yankees (Hughes/Kennedy).

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 09:29 PM) I'd keep him and turn him into a middle reliever, salary be damned. I think he'd be like Dotel, some days good, some awful. As far as the thread, yes he was the biggest reason we lost. You take the 3-1 lead and immediately are behind? I wish I could have heard what Stone said about that. That was a killer. That said, great relief job and we still could have made it interesting with some clutch home runs (we don't get clutch hits, only hrs of course). Nice job by Wise; we had a chance to stun them ala the Dodgers vs. Nubs in Game One had we held them at bay a couple innings. But Javy giving up the lead immediately!! My god that cooked us. Poor Javy, what a stiff. -- I was talking to somebody who was not a big baseball fan who wanted to know why a guy with 16 losses was pitching in a playoff game (and I don't blame Ozzie; I'd go with the headcase Vazzy today over a rookie)? I just said I don't know. We can't afford a $11.5 million dollar middle reliever and long man...we couldn't afford El Duque at roughly half that salary for 2006, which is basically why we let him go...that and durability/age concerns. And his "sulking" presence in the pen (if he's not a starter) would not be constructive at all. Let him go and start somewhere else, please KW.

They said something telling during the pre-game show. That when Ozzie was being questioned by the reporter (Jesse) about Vazquez starting, he hemed and hawed and said everything to support him, but you could tell by his evasive answer that Guillen didn't have confidence or faith in him anymore but felt like he had no choice. Said the only other time this year he (Guillen) had the same reaction (evasive, rambling, not entirely honest or forthright like usual) was on the constant questioning of Griffey playing CF...that deep down it was implied or inferred he knew that was also a questionable decision for him to make, and that he felt a bit uncomfortable with Griffey playing so much center, but his recent improved play and obviously the play the other day against Cuddyer validated his playing. In fact, Anderson, as a defensive sub, was inserted into LF, not CF.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 03:33 PM) The Orioles would be a decent bet. Maybe go after Roberts with Vazquez as one of the main pieces. Why would the Orioles trade one of their most popular players for a pitcher with almost no upside, besides eating up innings as a 4/5 starter and making a few persistent Roto League owners happy with his strikeouts? Especially at his salary. Just doesn't make sense for Baltimore. Nobody has gotten him to change his career-long trajectory of not pitching very well under pressure. He just looks defeated...maybe he's not even on the ALCS roster if we go there. But it's a tremendous off-season dilemma for Williams to get another GM to take a risk without us having to subsidize his contract.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Oct 2, 2008 -> 12:47 PM) You have to look at what the Sox's needs are though and the players out there on the market. We'll have the contracts of Crede, Uribe and OC coming off the books, and JC's contract maybe covered by insurance. That's potential $25M in contracts the Sox won't have to pay. Uribe will be back, he's played himself back into a role, but only as a utility man IMHO. That's $3M or so. I'd like to sign another good bullpen guy, another lefty if possible or someone like Doug Brocail who had a good season before being overworked. That's another 3M or so. Which guys are out there via FA that the Sox could go after to fill their CF hole, or do they give Swisher another opportunity there. Why not offer Swisher and Fields to Seattle for Beltre for example, to try and fill your hole at 3B? The Sox take on another $6M or so in that deal, leaving another 10-15M potentially to spend, if not more, considering payroll has increased each season for the last 5-6. So unless the Sox traded for a big name CF, they'd have to sign a 2B or SS IMHO. Rafael Furcal is basically the only guy I could really justify the Sox going after as a SS, considering his OBP / defensive skills, but the Dodgers want to re-sign him and he's very injury prone. Hence why I think going after Hudson on a 2 year 25M deal or so and moving Alexei Ramirez to SS is a better option. They'd still need a CF, but they could offer prospects to Pittsburgh for someone like Nate McLouth for instance. Either way, the Sox need to strengthen up the middle and at 3B, as they're pretty much set elsewhere. KW's got a real opportunity to consolidate the gains the Sox have made (hence why I'd like to see him go after some more young pitching if possible as well, because with Floyd and Danks he's got a good recent track record on that front). Agree with most of what you're saying, except for the possibility of getting McLouth. At some point, the Pirates will have to keep some of their young talent and try to build something. He's got enough years for a reasonable salary (unlike Bay) that you have to think he would be hard to pry away. I don't see the Mariners accepting a possibly injury-prone Fields and the erratic Swisher. Arguably, it would be a step down from Raul Ibanez...and Michael Morse, Olivo, Reed and Borchard all have had minimal impacts. Just don't see it. I think that Cuddyer and a prospect or two would be more appealing than Swisher coming out of this season.