caulfield12

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 09:55 PM) This dude said that none of Vazquez's offspeed pitches are plus pitches, WTF? Is he talking about the same Vazquez? I realize his bad ERA may lead an uninformed person to believe that, but come on. I guess I should expect that from ESPN. These scouting reports are funny. Boone Logan tops out at 91? Okay, sure. We've seen wildly variant "top speeds" for Santos Rodriguez, from low 90's to well over mid 90's. Comparing Gilmore to Sweeney because they're both from Iowa? Dissecting Flowers' "flawed" swing, just like they were doing with Beckham before he torched the AFL? The funny part is half of these guys have never seen the particular players even play, they just regurgitate what a scout said upon watching that player at some time in the past, and it might have been only based on the observation of 1-2 games. Kind of silly.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) It makes me apprehensive to sign someone whose speed is a major tool that has been injured the last two seasons (Pods) and will be in his mid-thirties for the majority of the contract. Furcal was a good signing 4 years ago, but I think that ship has sailed, and the Dodgers lack of interest should throw up a red flag, like maybe they know something that we dont. I think our leadoff hitter will come from the CF position, and it may be an acquisition for another young prospect, maybe a package of the pieces that we have acquired for a year of Chone Figgins and Peter Bourjos, Cameron Maybin, or Dexter Fowler they would all fit KW's plan to get younger, be more athletic, and improve the defense. Save the money and get a pitcher instead of spending on a big question mark like Furcal. The Fowler and Maybin trades will be announced the same day we acquire Fernando Martinez.

Ramirez' top value to this team remains at SS or 2B because of his "plus" offensive numbers there, probably not 3B or CF. Beckham will most likely end up at 2B, or possibly 3B...although it would be great if either Beckham (or Lillibridge) stayed as "pure" shortstops, the belief is that the position might be too much for him to handle at the major league level. Of course, the same arguments are being used about Flowers remaining at catcher, where he would obviously have the most value to the White Sox or any other organization. Viciedo will most likely end up in LF/RF/1B/DH.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) I've always thought if he accepts arb he will get between $11-12 million. Shockingly, Heyman at SI put what he thought he would get at the exact same figure. He still thinks is less than 50/50 OC accepts and uses Renteria's contract as a measuring stick, but I did read where SF way overbid for Renteria, that he probably wasn't going to be able to get more than 2 years at $6 million per. I also read where the Dodgers had very little interest in OC in a Rosenthal column. When OC was acquired KW attempted to get him to sign an extension. It would be interesting to see if it ever got to the point terms were discussed, and if they were, how high the White Sox were willing to go. If he declines, KW should contemplate becoming a professional dodge ball player. Fukudome, Jered Wright, trading Garland for Erstad only to have the Angels ownership squash it, the Ordonez extension that was rejected, having Hawk change his mind about AJ, and this...........he'd probably rule that sport. Don't forget NOT trading Buerhle and Dye. We don't know what the package that "almost" ended up in us acquiring Cabrera, and if they would have tried to dump D. Willis on us in that deal, but that could have been devastating in terms of payroll flexibility and talent surrendered. Jurrgens has been very good for the Braves, and Maybin looks like a future star...look how far DET and Dombrowski have fallen in one year's time, just like the White Sox coming out of 07. I mean, they're trying to trade for Jack Wilson or Adam Everett, and the economy of Michigan appears doomed to 20% unemployment. Talk about a turnaround in the divisional alignment. Of course, Porcello will probably still be a stud, but the Tigers are trying to ditch whatever contract they can, with Sheffield and Willis stuck on their books....Magglio might be the next to go, and Carlos Guillen's getting older.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=cws

http://www.thescoreboards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18935 I couldn't find the result of the grievance, but it looks like the Padres had to pay 1/4th of his salary as "severance," so the White Sox theoretically could lose $2.5 million if they went that route. Of course, they'd be much better off holding onto Cabrera....he could get something much better than Jon Adkins in return, that only happened because all the clubs thought that the Type A/B compensation system was going out the window that offseason (didn't happen) and some teams got burned, like the White Sox. Of course, the Sox had no desire to hold onto Durham, and they saved money on Durham's contract while trying out Willie Harris there over the final months of the season.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8901804...ect-arbitration More recent Rosenthal article on FA's rejecting arbitration. One key note is the arbitration deals are one year, NON-GUARANTEED contracts. Something else to consider.

Let's back up...we haven't seen any offers or what's available to O-Cab, because his negotiations haven't been public like with Furcal. That doesn't mean he doesn't have any offers. We do know ONE team was willing to give Renteria, who's valued as a lesser player and was run out of DET on a rail essentially, an average of $9.25 milllion per season over two years. Of course, some GM's and "insiders" say that was a crazy move by SF and they were essentially bidding against themselves. We do know that Minnesota, Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland and the Dodgers remain in the market for a SS, and possibly the Blue Jays. Oakland, Baltimore and the Dodgers look like good possibilities. We do know that Minnesota has passed on Blake at 3 years and $20 million, so they're more likely to want to make a move at SS OR trade Beltre for Delmon Young, who they've put on the market because of dissatisfaction with his attitude, defense, baserunning and lack of power. Sources say the White Sox moving Jermaine Dye is "overblown." He'll cost $11.5MM next year with a $1MM buyout for 2010 and teams in need of a corner outfielder can target Dunn or Bobby Abreu rather than give up prospects to the White Sox. Orlando Cabrera has been made aware that Alexei Ramirez is the starting shortstop in 2009 and, for that reason, OC is expected to decline arbitration even in a depressed shortstop market. Olney reports that Rafael Furcal's final contract request (from the A's) was 4 years, $52MM. He wound up rejecting the offer of 4 years, $35-40MM. mlbtraderumors

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 10:01 AM) You can trade him earlier if you get his permission http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1114 Which would undoubtedly be given in this case by Cabrera...in all likelihood. It has been a long time since an arbitration decision was so filled with suspense for the White Sox.

Okay, fine...we pay Cabrera for 55-65% of the season and auction him off to the highest bidder, whose starter has gone down to injury. What's the problem with that? Ramirez goes back to 2B, and it buys all of our middle infield prospects another half season to prove themselves, especially Beckham and Lillibridge, but also Getz, who I think would be more likely than Lillibridge to go down to AAA. Or one of the 2B prospects emerge and Alexei plays all over the field, but CF mostly, with some time at 2B as well, with Lillibridge backing up at SS. Although there's also the possibility Lillibridge is the starting SS for Charlotte and Getz at 2B...with Nix on the MLB roster, although I think they would really prefer Lillibridge as their second utility player to go with Betemit. The deadline is 13 hours away...exactly right now, 11 pm in Thailand, hahaha!!!!

Except for when Jon Adkins, Felix Diaz, Nick Masset, Jon Rauch, Jim Parque, Lorenzo Barcelo, Danny Wright or Bobby Jenks are pitching, lol. Then the radar gun has some relevance.

I'm still not understanding what the problem here is. KW is doing everything possible to get him NOT to accept arbitration...within reason. Maybe you disagree with his methods or tone, or whatever, but he had a right to express the opinion that Alexei was his SS and that he wanted to play the kids at 2B. It's not unlike the movie "Casino Royale," with KW as James Bond, haha. He might lose this bluff, but ultimately, how does it hurt us? If we have Cabrera under contract for one season, worse things have happened. The fact is, it would give us more flexibility with our roster, and Alexei could move back to 2B or to the OF and the overall team would be better, not worse. Or, instead of teams worried about signing him due to losing the draft picks, he trades Cabrera to a team whose SS goes down in spring training or whose "rookie phenom" they expected to be ready in 2009 isn't quite there yet (hello ATL OR MIL). So, in many ways, he would/could be just as valuable to another team in trade for ONE YEAR at a fixed/predictable rate rather than signing himfor 3-4 seasons and then also losing draft picks, too (in an unforeseeable economy). I don't think has KW has any intention of keeping him on the roster for very long, but he also provides valuable insurance for Alexei Ramirez not being able/ready to play SS. KW did the responsible thing here, if he didn't offer arbitration, we wouldn't get ANYTHING back in return, right? Now, our team is either better or 2) our team is better because we can trade him for another part we want, like 3B, CF or a pitcher. Ozzie is saying all the right things about him being welcomed back, it's classic "good cop," "bad cop." I mean, Ozzie threw the leader of his country, Chavez under the bus this week (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=255587&src=162) but didn't have one negative thing to say about Cabrera when he had the opportunity. Interesting, isn't it? If we didn't offer him arbitration, everyone would be screaming bloody murder. The worst thing you can say is that KW "MIGHT" eventually have to trade Konerko/Dye/Jenks if Cabrera's on the roster for payroll flexibility, but he was apparently weighing all these options well before any decision that Cabrera makes about accepting the arbitration offer from the Sox. And that's a big assumption that we would not be able to find a single suitor for Cabrera...when we got the package we got back for Javy after the way he closed out the season. Say what you want about his OPS and OBP, Cabrera is usually around winning teams, and there are plenty of GM's who appreciate that more than the SABR fanatics. Everything will work out in the end, and all of KW's plans can be adjusted on the fly for changing circumstances.

If he's truly a question "mark," give me four more Question Marks in our rotation and we'll have the 2009 AL Central Division Championship Banner to fly right next to 2008, 2005 and 2000.

Agreed....trading AJ and Buehrle would be the least likely or pleasant options of any available to KW at this point in time...well, except for trading Quentin or Danks I guess.

Well, there are a couple of arguments, the same ones we see here all the time. Furcal would rather stay in the NL, where he's most comfortable and familiar with the pitching staffs over there. Second, if he only signs for one year, the best place to re-establish a higher value might be in the NL, where his stats would be about 25% better than in the AL, arguably. If the agent (Kinzer) turned down $35-40 million over four years (although there have been at least two inaccurate stories already in the Furcal saga, some spread by Furcal and his agent in El Caribe newspaper) AND he had a solid offer for $39 million and 3 years, I have no idea why he wouldn't take the three year deal. Every article I've seen has him around $35-45 million over four years. At any rate, the list of suitors for him is diminishing. I just don't see the Twins suprising everyone and giving him a huge deal at age 31, especially considering he would play almost half a season on turt. The Orioles don't seem to have a clue what they're doing or which direction they're heading...if they are trading Brian Roberts, why would they add a veteran like Furcal to essentially replace Tejada in their IF? Oakland's out. LA's supposedly out. Detroit is looking at low-budget options like Wilson and Everett. Cleveland would surprise the heck out of me if they committed that money...CLE and DET, in particular, would seem to be most vulnerable to the economic recession playing havoc with their revenues.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1317...eluca07.article Chris DeLuca on the same topic...I do think it's a little ridiculous for him to use the term "rebuilding" if we don't acquire a proven leadoff hitter, as Cabrera certainly wasn't a prototypical one. If anything, going with two unproven starters will do more damage than Getz/Owens/Wise/Ramirez/Lillibridge will do leading off.

A rival GM revealed weeks ago the White Sox were shopping every decent-sized contract they had (and maybe he wasn’t exaggerating that much), and so far Kenny Williams has traded away Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez, or almost $17 million off 2009 alone. from yahoosports.com

Have you seen how big he is in that youtube video clip? He makes A-Rod look like a dwarf.

But did you also think the White Sox would shop Buehrle, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Jenks, Javy, Swisher and AJ this offseason too? I just think that Hardy's power numbers are respectable, but that many believe Escobar has a nice upside and they need to invest that money that Hardy will start making into someone better than Jeff Suppan...or investing in Japan, DR, Venezuela, etc. Quoting HR statistics alone doesn't tell the WHOLE story. Reyes is 5X the ballplayer Hardy is, but he has fewer homers. It's like saying Dye is clearly the best MLB RFer over the last four seasons because he has the most homers. Not sure I am willing to go along with that, because defensive ability is also important, especially at SS.

Central Division Chicago White Sox What’s new: More than a few scouts were dismayed to see 19-year-old Cuban Dayan Viciedo out of shape at his Dominican workout last month, but they agreed he could hit, and the White Sox made him rich. It seems a longshot, but there’s some talk he could play third base or shortstop (ARE THEY SMOKING CRACK?)for the White Sox this season, or they could turn him into an outfielder. What’s old: A rival GM revealed weeks ago the White Sox were shopping every decent-sized contract they had (and maybe he wasn’t exaggerating that much), and so far Kenny Williams has traded away Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez, or almost $17 million off 2009 alone. Winter meetings: And Jermaine Dye would make it about $28 million. He is being shopped and there would be plenty of interest. In fact, he’d make a lot of sense for the Mets. from yahoosports Possible Cabrera AL destinations: CLE (move Peralta to 3B), MIN, Baltimore, Oakland...

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 02:00 AM) 3 years 36 mil with an option for 4 which makes it 50. Its up to his agent to accept. how much would the buyout for the 4th year be?

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 12:19 AM) Not really. I believe that we would have to trade heavy for him, and it would be risky....given his injury status. After Seattle spending so heavily last year and coming up with nothing but a dismal failure of a team, are they in the market for cutting expenses?? Not sure! Okay, who would you be willing to give up for Bedard? Of course, the conversation begins with Poreda, and Fields makes sense at 3B/1B/LF/DH, especially if they're going to deal Beltre...I guess they also might want an outfielder (with Ibanez's departure), but giving them Anderson, Wise or Owens probably doesn't do a whole lot to excite their FO, although I guess there are some possibilities. This is another team that might have use for Lillibridge as an outfielder, but certainly not LF.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 12:12 AM) If Cabrera accepts arbitration, that's fine - we'll just trade him. We won't get a ton, but we should get a nice prospect. A team like the Dodgers would probably prefer to give us a prospect for a year of Cabrera than to give up 2 draft choices for him (of course we'd lose the choices by trading him). That may even be something Beane would do - he wants a SS and tried to sign Furcal - trade for him for 1 year of Cabrera the draft choices next year when the market may be better. A 3 year contract would be great with Furcal. If Beckham is ready before then, we'll work it out. Does anyone believe at this point the market really will be better for 2010? Don't hold your breath. I agree that if we could trade Cabrera for a CFer/leadoff hitter, that would be great. I'm not so concerned with the draft picks as I am Cabrera's likely $9-12 million price tag for an "average" MLB shortstop. Cabrera is the equivalent of Vazquez among the position players. I think we can win without him. KW's probably thinking the same thing, that his money would be better invested in CF or the starting rotation. I really think Beckham ends up at 2B, Fields stays at 3B and Viciedo makes his impact in LF/RF or 1B after Konerko is gone in 2010. The reasons are simple, Alexei Ramirez is a "plus" offensive threat at SS, and Beckham likewise is a "plus" offensive player (much better than AL or MLB average) at those positions. The only thing I see happening is Viciedo or Betemit taking the place of Fields at 3B, but I'm just not sure how good Viciedo is going to be over there defensively. Maybe he has "cat-like" first step quickness, but he just has the look of a corner OF, 1B, DH, just like Carlos Lee when he was trying to play that position early in his career. Now, from everything reported, Viciedo and Ramirez would go head to head for the best arm on the team, so there's hope he can stay there, but I'm not 100% buying it, at least until we see him play there in AZ.

According to Dan Graziano of the Newark Star-Ledger, the Cubs offered Jason Marquis and salary relief to the Mets for reliever Aaron Heilman. The Mets declined. It's been suggested the Cubs are willing to eat as much as $4MM of Marquis' $9.875MM. Graziano seems to believe the Mets are targeting a Marquis-like free agent starter, Jon Garland.

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Dec 7, 2008 -> 12:07 AM) I'm going with Bedard also. Not really a top choice that I would hope for, but I remember KW drooling over him and how much he coveted him a couple of years back. He was always talking of how his stuff was scary. He struggled last year and had shoulder issues with surgery ...but with different scenery, and another Coop and Herm fix????? 7 mil for 1 year. You're assuming the M's are just going to cast him adrift. I don't think that's so obvious, anymore than the Orioles letting Daniel Cabrera go with nothing to show for it.