caulfield12

QUOTE (YASNY @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 10:54 PM) That makes so much sense, it could happen. Well, sort of...but why would we want Garland to pitch for about the same amount of money as Vazquez with the same or probably WORSE results? There are many other answers out there that would be better than paying Jon Garland $12 million dollars to be the 4th starter again. If they tried to cut him 20% (the Angels), they'd still be paying Garland $9.6 million, but we all know the odds are stacked against the teams winning these cases...he might actually end up costing more money than Vazquez. I know in another thread someone mentioned that $18 million for Ichiro is pretty crazy, or $27 million for A-Rod, but if you're going to pay Jon Garland $12-13 million to be a "pedestrian" fourth starter, why not take a bigger risk and really go for it? I don't think we'll ever see Garland here again in Chicago, any more than I believe we'll see a CC Sabathia signing this offseason, a trade for A-Rod, or the acquisition of Manny Ramirez.

Where else is Furcal going to go, logically? He basically has been cast away by the Dodgers, the A's are out of it, and the Giants as well as the Cardinals. The Dodgers and Tigers are looking at Jack Wilson or even Adam Everett. Of course, if Cabrera does end up coming back at $11 million per season, I can see a significant number of fans whining and griping that we didn't get Furcal when we had the chance. Of course, whether he would actually stay healthy and productive over the life of that contract is anothe matter entirely, but the initial reaction of Cabrera coming might would not be an altogether happy or contented one.

OU tearing apart Missouri and continuing to justify their BCS selection. Now we'll see if Stoops can get his team up for the NC game...the last couple of times out against LSU and USC were duds, especially the USC game. But Bradford is five times the QB Jason White or Josh Heupel ever were at OU. While Murray and Brown aren't better than A. Peterson individually, their combined threat is scarier (Murray's not even playing tonight), and Gresham is far and away the best TE in the country right now, with Chase Coffman a distant second.

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 08:36 PM) Or Furcal moves to 2nd. I've seen it mentioned in the past few days that he might do so, in order to generate a larger market for his services. And I really believe that Williams wants Ramirez at short, period. If Furcal was to go the Mets, it would definitely be at 2B, but they would need to unload Castillo on someone by eating most of his salary. If he came to Chicago, I can't see why/how they wouldn't prefer to have Furcal at SS with Ramirez at 2B. You would be asking two players to make position changes from places where they've proven they can play very well, albeit somewhat erratically.

Well, at any rate, with Flowers and Armstrong, Corky Miller and Chris Stewart, I guess we're about in as good a shape as possible right now, assuming we don't trade Armstrong for Cantu. I know some prefer Blanco as the back-up, we'll just have to wait and see what his asking price is...seems like a distant memory when F. Hernandez was one of our Top 10 prospects there.

Especially after 2006, when he struggled so mightily to get through the 5th and 6th innings. A couple of those games still stand out, one when I was in Peru and following through Internet against TOR (not a good game, to say the least!) The other was the GS by Craig Monroe (I'm pretty sure it was Monroe) in DET. That game was a dagger, and an omen of things to come later in the season. For some reason, Aardsma's walkoff gopher ball to Thames stands out, too.

The fact that they won't have to give up draft picks has to be enticing to GM Smith. But that $33-36 million over three years has to be scaring the heck out of them at the same time...at Furcal's age, playing on turf for one season, with his recent history of injuries. It sort of worked okay for one year of Luis Castillo, who was even more "beaten up" by all those stolen bases over the years that Furcal seems to be. But that salary commitment would be huge for Minny, and if they're really trying to trade Delmon Young, it just seems contradictory to normal Twins' offseasons. Maybe they really are serious about having the best possible team assembled for their new stadium opening in 2010.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 05:59 PM) The Brewers wont trade Gallardo or Parra, you should just forget about those two. They're going to lose Sabathia and even if Sheets accepts arbitration they're still left with a huge dropoff after the #3 in their rotation. A great move would be Bobby Jenks for Alcides Escobar and Cole Gillespie. I know we have a lot of middle infield prospects in Beckham, Lillibridge, Getz and Nix but none of those guys are Escobar; hes on a totally different level as a prospect than everyone in our system except maybe Beckham. I really like Cole Gillespie, college ballplayer who's matured as a hitter... really gets on base and can steal a few bases. I'd love for the Sox to get him. The problem is that the Brewers, if they can't bring back either Sabathia or Sheets, it just doesn't make any sense to bring back an elite closer whose salary is projected around $5 million for 2009 and even higher for 2010 and 2011. In the process, they possibly lose him for one of the best middle infield prospects in the game that would cheap/affordable to a "rebuilding" team trying to compete with the Cubs and Cardinals. Also, I think they would learn from the $10 million they wasted on Gagne (of course, one could argue that paying half that for Jenks is much more logical). They did "okay" with Salomon Torres as the closer, but there's lots of other cheaper options out there like Brandon Lyon, Juan Cruz, Jose Valverde, etc., that wouldn't cost nearly as much as Jenks to acquire. Sure, trying to dump Hardy would make sense, but you don't trade Top 10 MLB middle infield prospects (especially at SS) for a closer, unless it's Mariano Rivera in his prime or someone like that.

How can we possibly be in on Furcal if we don't know if OC will accept arbitration? I mean, we COULD be a player there, but everything has been so public about his (Furcal's) viable options...how would it be possible for KW to stay totally under the radar? Lots of conflicting stories, that he turned down a solid offer for 3/$39, but then rumors that the other teams were balking at adding a fourth year and that a deal offering 4 years for $35-40 million was about the best he could possibly do. With Cabrera slated to make $9-11 million next season, I don't see how we're not at least waiting. As another Phil Rogers article that speculates about Cabrera's destination and competition amongst the remaining SS's for those teams, there aren't very many viable options left for OC. Maybe the Dodgers, maybe the A's, maybe the Twins. But do we see Minnesota signing anyone to a 2 year/$20 million contract as a FA? By the way, it also looks like the Twins are shopping Delmon Young, who would be a "cheaper" player most teams would probably prefer to one year (or maybe two) of Jermaine Dye for $23 million.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,3772436.column Another article basically summarizing where the Sox are at this point in the offseason: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,0,515366.story

That's certainly one more reason to think that holding onto him one more year and hoping he reverts back to 2007 form is probably just wishful thinking...as he's only pitched really well (consistently) when the Sox were not in contention.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) Jenks traded. Juan Cruz signed. Cruz/Thornton/Linebrink, closer by committee (unless one emerges). I don't think we'd touch Juan Cruz due to his Type A status and losing the picks...too expensive for a set-up guy, unless you really believe he could step in and be a closer to replace Jenks, which some teams apparently see him as this offseason.

There are a lot of teams that took chances by offering arbitration, and nearly as big. The Angels offered to bring back Jon Garland, although he's only a Type B FA. I guess it's a lesser risk due to the value of pitching in this market, and the fact that the Angels have 33-50% more money to play around with than we do in this current/future market. Still, if another team signed him, the Angels wouldn't have as much to lose as not offering a Type A FA.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 09:01 AM) For everyone clamoring for OC to return, you fail to realize that this wasn't in the plans that KW had. Thus, who knows what other deals he wanted to make will be impossible due to the financial ramifications if OC returns. I assume that the Swisher and Javy trades weren't made with OC returns in mind. Or it could bring about a trade that Kenny doesn't really want to make in order to dump Dye's or Konerko's salary...assuming Cabrera's $9-11 million one year deal is back on the books. That, or trading Jenks. Kind of frustrating, in the sense that we just won the AL Central, but all MLB teams except for the Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, Mets, Yankees and Red Sox will be making decisions based much more on the financial ramificationas, such as the Dodgers turning down a deal for Furcal for four years already, even though Torre really wanted to bring him back.

“The negativity is never good," Vazquez said at his news conference in Atlanta. "I’ve always been a big believer in being positive, especially in professional leagues. You’ve got a lot of negative things going on, so you always try to be positive. "I’m a positive guy, try to be positive all the time. I’m glad to be here in Atlanta." Vazquez declined to say anything bad about Guillen. "The only thing I’m going to say is it’s good to get away from the negativity and start fresh," Vazquez said. "I like the city, like the stadium. I’m a flyball pitcher, so this park, I think suits better with the type of pitcher I am. I’m looking forward to pitching here." chicagotribune.com/sports Well, when I read the headline, I thought it would/could be worse. Ozzie and former Sox players have been extremely "cordial" to each other the past couple of days. Nobody being thrown under the bus, must be something in the water.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 09:05 AM) Chris De Luca still thinks the Sox will call MacPhail about Brian Roberts during the winter meetings. Obviously he is the perfect one year stop gap until Beckham is ready for his call up in 2010. Now that our farm has been well re-stocked, we may have the amunition to pull off such a deal. Brian Roberts Jermain Dye will likely be moved this offseason. And I would most definitley trade him for a young SP. Teams like the Reds, Giants, Rays, and Phillies will call KW about his services during the winter meetings. Possible Returns: Reds- Homer Bailey: Former 1st round pick and top pitching prospect. Sox can get him back on track aka like they did with Floyd. Giants- Jonathan Sanchez: young pitcher with some MLB experience. Can be a bottom of the rotation servicable starter. Rays- Edwin Jackson or Sonnestiene: One or the other will be dealt this offseason as they need to make room for Price. Both of these starters played a role in the magical Rays season. Jackson has a high cieling and has nasty stuff. Phillies- Not sure what they have to offer... The whole Jenks thing is intruiging. If they move him then it may be a loooong 2009 and a partial rebuilding phase. I would do it if you can get a promising top prospect who can potentially be our CF of the future. I wonder if the Mets would ever cave in and accept a Dye, Jenks for Fernando Martinez. I have been reading up about this young fella and boy is he exciting... If you were the Mets, an oppurtunity to add a 30+ HR-100 RBI guy AND a 35+ save guy has to be intruiging... The Winter Meetings will be interesting.... The Mets absolutely refused to part with him as part of the Johan Santana deal. If you can't get him included for arguably the best starting pitcher in baseball, then there's no way Jenks/Dye gets you very far. The possibility of having another Kazmir/Zambrano deal go against them still lingers, to this day, with young Mr. Martinez. Cafardo believes the Dodgers will turn to Bobby Abreu, Pat Burrell, or Jermaine Dye if they fail to re-sign Manny Ramirez.mlbtraderumors.com Anyone interested in signing Matt Clement on a "spec" major/minor league contract?

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 08:36 AM) True; but other than Pods (and maybe Contreras and Floyd), none of the above were acquired in exchange for a player of Jenks' value to the current squad. Most were acquired for cash. All suckage is relative. If we trade Bobby, we need to be fairly certain to get players back who can contribute now, not guys with mere potential. I'll agree with one thing, I don't care about prospects anymore. We need to get someone who can contribute immediately to the starting rotation, or, worse case scenario, a couple more potential closers that are AAA/1st/2nd year service players. The Brewers can't give us any starters, unless we realistically believe they'll give up Parra...which wouldn't make much sense, because you have no need for an elite closer if you have so many holes in your rotation, opportunities to save meaningful games would be somewhat limited. The other place to look is CF, and there you're talking Hart, Billy Hall, Gwynn Jr (as a fourth/fifth outfielder...which we don't really need, already having Owens/Anderson/Wise/Lillibridge). Trading for Hall is illogical, that doesn't save you any money at all, assuming Jenks will go up to around $5 million or so this season from $500K.

Mr. Richie Allen, Here's one thing nobody's really talking about, the elephant in the room. What if the economy will be even worse going into the 2010 season, and all signs are pointing towards that eventuality with the recently announced losses of over half a million jobs and predictions of 10% unemployment rates heading into 2010...wouldn't Cabrera be much better off RIGHT NOW taking whatever he could get in a guaranteed 2-3 year deal, instead of playing through another season at age 34/35? He could possibly get injured or degrade his future market value, even by missing 6-8 weeks of the season, yes? What would he actually be able to do to increase that value, as he would be a year older, and the chances of him putting up significantly better offensive stats at this point in his career aren't very good...not to manage his range is decreasing each and every season. Everyone wants to think they can predict the future and the market, and his agent might have the idea some here do of waiting it out another year for things to get better, but the odds are better than 50% right now things will be exponentially worse.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2008 -> 06:38 AM) Furcal hasn't ruled out joining the A's, but he wasn't willing to take a paycut to do it. While the A's were willing to give him the four-year deal he desired, the proposal didn't top $10 million per season. With the Giants also perhaps out of the mix, Furcal is left without an obvious suitor at the moment. He'll get his money, but he might have to settle for three years. As for the A's, they'll begin looking elsewhere for upgrades. They need at least one starter -- Randy Johnson is a possibility -- and they could always add another big bat, perhaps even Adam Dunn. From rotoworld. Makes you wonder what kind of contract is available to OC. Furcal is more of a speed-based player than Cabrera, who has proven much more durable and reliable. If you had the choice of Furcal at 3 years and $39 million or Cabrera at 2 years for $20 milllion, probably 20+ MLB GM's would go with the certainty of Cabrera over Furcal. Only the truly big market teams can take the risk of a Furcal deal going bad on them. OTOH, you have the likes of Jack Wilson and Adam Everett garnering a prettty good amount of interest, and maybe even Uribe will as well, eventually. There's definitely two different players in this market, the teams with money to spend and teams like the Tigers that are in cost-cutting/budget conservation mode. If you're looking for a SS, though, Cabrera's the best option of the available FA SS's to quite a few teams. The other reason Furcal is drawing a lot of interest is because of his Type B status.

Jason Marquis for 4th/5th starter anyone? Wittenmyer adds that the Cubs would be willing to eat as much as $4MM of Jason Marquis' $9.875MM salary to move him. If the Cubs were to add Jake Peavy after that, they'd be around $138MM. They could then squeeze in their coveted left-handed hitting outfielder. source, mlbtraderumors

You could say "they suck/ed" about 1/2 the players the White Sox have brought in over the last ten years...I'll highlight some particular names for you. Contreras D. Hermanson Politte Thornton Jenks Marte Uribe Gavin Floyd Alexei Ramirez Esteban Loaiza El Duque Tadahito Iguchi Jermaine Dye (not that he sucked, just was a big risk coming off injuries) Javier Vazquez Scott Podsednik Octavio Dotel Miguel Olivo Sure, there will always be plenty of Julio Ramirezes and DeAngelo Jimenezes to go around, Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, etc., but we have a pretty darn good track record of maximizing the potential of many of the prospects/suspects and undervalued veterans we've acquired in recent years. Sure, Nick Swisher was a pretty big disappointment, but he wasn't a big enough problem to keep up from winning the division, thanks to the likes of DeWayne Wise.

It all depends if he has a deal set in place to move Dye somewhere for starting pitching. If so, then he can go after CF/leadoff position. Which I guess would be Hart and/or Richie Weeks as possibilities...Gallardo and Parra would be great, but I don't think a relief pitcher gets you a starter back in any book, especially young/affordable starters in a mid-market, having lost Sabathia and Sheets, they can't deal any pitching to us IMO. Billy Hall would be another possibility, but how many "versatile" players (like Chone Figgins) who don't have one best position and can't play above-average defense do we really need? Then you also have to consider the transition to the "tougher" AL, etc. Hall also comes with a higher price tag, so I'm sure they would be interested in dumping him or possibly Hardy. Although with Hardy, it HARD(L)Y makes any sense if we don't know about Cabrera's fate (bringing back Uribe and signing O-Cab worked last year, but...) and we need to be able to tell our players what we expect out of them (in terms of where they will play, Beckham knows he's going to the minors to play SS until they tell him differently).

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Chris-Stewart.shtml 9 for 40 over the past two seasons with the Rangers and Yankees. Two more years in AAA, basically.

If I were Hahn and it went that far, I would put my figure around $9.5 million. OC would counter around $11, you're right. Then it would be a battle to assail his pedestrian OPS and OBP numbers. They would counter with the fact that he was being asked to bat out of his natural 2 spot and that he was 2nd in the GG voting for SS. Let's just hope the Dodgers give him at least $20 million over 2 years and he passes. There's one more factor here, his pretty large ego. If his archenemy Renteria can be banished out of DET and still get an average of $9.25 million for two seasons, Cabrera will want to one-up him to show he's still the best/most valuable Colombian SS.

On the conference call, a question was posed similar to what we've been debating here for seemingly years... Isn't it possible to get the same level of production (.500 record, 200 IP, 4.3-4.70 ERA) out of a cheaper pitcher? Well, KW SUPPOSEDLY believes Marquez is in the best position to do that...for whatever reasons he has. I do hope we add a lot more than Van Benschoten into the mix with Marquez, Broadway, Richard, Poreda, Carrasco (will he be in pen, starting, AAA or elsewhere?) and possibly Egbert.