caulfield12

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/major...008/267287.html http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....ams-on-tra.html This second one has the most "meat" to it, LOTS of interesting KW comments on the deal/s, including a very funny one that will surely become someone's new sig.

Somehow the editors missed the grammatical mistake "they'll" with "there'll" or "there will" or KW was misquoted. Totally forgot about claiming Jimenez from the Blue Jays...as Williams said, another "plus" arm to go with Nunez and Rodriguez. I sure hope Lillibridge reads the following article and pins it up in his locker. Those kind of emphatic quotes, made after one season of struggle, tend to come back and haunt writers and prognosticators. This time, Christina Kahrl. Acquired C-R Tyler Flowers, SS-R Brent Lillibridge, 3B-R Jon Gilmore, and LHP Santos Rodriguez for RHP Javier Vazquez and LHP Boone Logan. [12/2] While Sox fans have reason to be concerned that dealing Vazquez and not getting a starter close to ready coming back in the deal exposes them to a rotation of Danks, Buehrle, Floyd, humming a few bars, and getting back to Danks, Buehrle, and Floyd, let's remember that familiarity bred contempt for a few of the team's high-profile pickups of late, notably departing free agent Orlando Cabrera, but not excepting Vazquez. Flowers is the obvious prize, though his glove work behind the dish is questionable enough that he's no sure thing. Which is not to say this is a bad pack, it's just that it's comprised of disparate parts, players on different trajectories moving at different speeds who might answer different needs at different times. Lillibridge can run and he can handle short well enough, but he was also highly overrated after a batting average-inflated 2006 season, and there's a pretty good chance he's just a utility player who allows the Sox to wean themselves from the Age of Ozuna once and for all. He's not a bad add, but he's also probably not a starting shortstop that lets the Sox move Alexei Ramirez to third instead of short, which means the Ramirez-at-short experiment isn't being ended before it gets started. Lillibridge also doesn't pose much danger for Chris Getz at second. So, he's filler. from Baseball Prospectus

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Yeah, isn't Cabrera really tall? Haven't we learned our lesson with tall, wild pitchers? Jon Rauch? Well, it would be funny/ironic if they somehow signed Randy Johnson. Or Eric Hillman. Hendrickson.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:07 PM) Daniel Cabrera will be a member of the White Sox organization before Christmas. We won't have to wait too long to find out...in the next couple of weeks. But you'd have to guess at least 10-15 other teams would at least have preliminary interest in Cabrera. That's where Ozzie and Cooper might give us the advantage, theoretically, in recruiting. I'll put it this way....I would rather find 3-4 Daniel Cabreras and sign them for $3-5 milllion each per season than bring in ONE Jake Peavy to USCF and the AL. The odds are very good that not putting all the eggs in one basket (like buying stocks) will end up bearing fruit if Don Cooper has anything to say about it. We can have a bet, Willy Taveras will be a member of the White Sox organization before December 31st. LOL.

Who is our next Vazquez? I screened all those pitchers who have thrown 200 IP or more in one of the last 3 seasons and might be available. Padilla D. Davis K. Rogers Schilling Dave Bush J. Jennings Fr. Garcia Millwood Capuano Glavine Harang Moyer A. Cook B. Penny P. Maholm I. Snell PETITTE Suppan D. Willis Pelfrey D. CABRERA B. Arroyo C. Silva LOOPER Wainwright Gorzelanny Z. Duke Sheets Garland Jeff Francis

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:53 PM) I definitely do not want Peavy. Is he a good pitcher? Yes. Is he an elite pitcher? No. Peavy stats at Petco: ERA= 2.66 WHIP=1.07 Peavy stats in away games: ERA=3.80 WHIP=1.30 Hmmm..... Lets try this, Peavy career vs. AL: 44ER in 121 IP = 3.27 ERA Not too bad, but then look closer to see that he's had 40.2 IP against Seattle (A third of his AL games) Peavy vs (AL - SEA)= 35 ER in 80.1 IP = 3.92 ERA My point is, taking Peavy out of his stadium raises his ERA. Then taking Peavy out of his league raises his ERA even more. So do I want us to pay for him in prospects and salary like he's an elite pitcher? Nope, because he's a good pitcher, not an elite one. Unfortunately the Padres should be smart enough to sell him as if his numbers will remain the same in any park in any league. He is simply not worth the cost. I'd much rather go for a lesser pitcher that would be more cost effective in terms of salary and prospects. Or, I'd much rather just hold onto the 'spects, hold onto the money and just wait for the right opportunity to come along. That opportunity is just not this one. NO PEAVY! Good quick research! I'll agree....and also disagree with whoever said that Clayton Richard could be close to consideration as a "centerpiece" of any deal for Peavy. It starts at Poreda, Fields or Allen and another prospect....second/third tier.

QUOTE (michelangelosmonkey @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 09:37 PM) You mean the "LAST DECADE" where we won three divisions, finished 2nd 4 times and won a World Series? That is the decade you don't want to repeat? Adam Dunn is a high on base, high power guy that would fit great on the team No, you misunderstand. I said that's been the complaint the past decade. Up until this year, Minnesota's approach has been more consistent in winning divisions, but then 2005 and 2008 kind of erases that...we definitely had the more talented teams than Minny most of those years, but we were too one dimensional offensively. With that said, pitching is almost always what wins championships...I do think when we look back on the decade, we'll wonder about 2003 and 2006, in particular. We had a huge payroll disparity with the Twins, and yet they played us evenly over that time period.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:14 PM) This team is no different really from last year with Dunn in the lineup. No thanks. Tavares in CF I can see. But not Dunn. Puts us back in the same old plodding HR hitting funk which people have b****ed about the past few year. Not just last year, LAST DECADE!!! Personally, I just can't see KW trading away a JD to clear the way to sign an Abreu. But I've been surprised before. It doesn't really make sense. As noted, Abreu is going to hit 15-25 homers at USCF, not 30-45. He might have a better OBP, he MIGHT be a better defender...but he has slipped significantly. I suppose we could look at it as saving $3-4 million per season over Dye AND getting a pitcher back to take Vazquez's spot in the rotation. Just seems kind of backwards. Well, really the question is would it be better to buy a pitcher in the market or give up Dye in order to acquire one? I guess in KW's line of thinking, trading talent for younger/affordable starters is almost always better than buying veterans FA pitchers on the open market.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:00 PM) Here's what i can see happening. I think Broadway gets dealt for Tavares. I wouldn't be surprised if that hasn't already been agreed on. I think Dye gets moved to the Reds. If money is the issue in this trade maybe we send Dye,either BA or Owens,and maybe Lillibridge to the Reds for Bailey and either Arroyo or Harang.That would even the money out a little bit. Then the Sox sign Dunn in free agency. That would give us a team looking like: SP-Buehrle, Floyd,Danks, Harang, and Bailey/Poreda/Marquez/Richard bullpen:Thornton,Linebrink,loser of the 5th spot,Russel,Dotel, Jenks Lineup: CF-Tavares 2b-Getz RF-Quentin LF-Dunn DH-Thome 1B-Konerko SS-Alexei C-AJ 3B-Fields bench players: Betemit, Nix,backup C, Owens/BA, Wise I wouldn't want Thome and Dunn back-to-back. I'd hit Thome fourth, Konerko fifth and Dunn sixth. Or Dunn 4th and Thome 6th, depending on who was hottest. I also don't like Fields at the very bottom of the line-up. I'd be tempted to put Alexei there, but then you sacrifice some at-bats over the season. Also, Nix will probably go to the minors if he's not the starter. He can't play all over the diamond like Uribe/Getz/Betemit/Lillibridge. http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-bl...ng_hampton.html Very good article by Atlanta J-C writer on the Vazquel deal, although I think he's discounting any impact from the 3 other players we got in the deal too much, Gilmore in particular.

I could see Uribe ending up in StL, LA, Oakland, Toronto...maybe even the Twins, although I would hate and love it at the same time from a Sox fan perspective. Hopefully Juanie aka The Lizard gets a chance to be a starting SS again somewhere this year.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 07:39 PM) Jerry is not getting any younger and I'm sure another World Series would make him as happy as it would make us if not more so. Reinsdorf will also make budgetary exceptions for exceptional talent. It's been discussed frequently on this board how the Sox lack a true ace. Peavy would qualify and make all of the other pitcher better. Peavy MB Danks Floyd JC/a young pitcher from the system/a short term vet such as Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez This staff would be loaded for bear and aiming beyond a central title. Fun to think about on this fine December evening. We really should have a pool to guess who is on the final roster / starting lineup to see who can predict KW the closest. I'm not sure I agree there...I think he is a bit more content with the World Series title under his belt. There's a large number of Sox fans who feel that way. Then there's KW, who is driven to win every year and usurp the Cubs' role as Chicago's team. I'm not going to say I agree or disagree with any of the moves so far...only that the recession that former President Clinton predicted would take 15 months to 2 years to shake free from (if they make the right decisions in the new administration) is giving KW and JR additional cover to lower the payroll a bit, at least as of today, it appears we're headed back down to the $85-100 million range, if not a little lower. You can say JR is either brilliant or greedy or a combination of both, knowing that raising ticket prices was only possible coming off the AL Central Division championship, when he held the deposits from playoff ticket sales. Of course, look at 2005 and that was far and away our cheapest team of the last four years. There's certainly something to be said for having younger, hungrier players like the Twins, Rays, etc. Everyone has known for years now that the middle of the order would need to be broken up, that we were too station to station and reliant upon the homer. However, that's they way you win at USCF (look at Thome's GW HR against MIN), along with quality starting pitching and a good bullpen. The first phase was jettisoning Lee, Ordonez, Thomas and Valentin. Now we're in Phase II, with Konerko, Dye and Thome. By 2011, we will have an almost entirely different line-up, and one that's mostly homegrown, hopefully. Also, look at all the bad contracts the Tigers have or had, like Renteria, Dontrelle Willis, Sheffield, Pudge Rodriguez. At least we're sitting here with only two issues on our roster, Contreras and MacDougal. Konerko could be traded without eating any salary after the way he finished the season. We have a ton of flexibility now with our payroll, infield depth and re-invigorated farm system. It's fun to see so much "fresh blood" coming into the fold, and not Andy Gonzalez, Wasserman, Fields and Owens, but legit All-Star caliber players in the future.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:11 PM) Is there anybody else who doesnt want Jake Peavy? Like at all? Jerry Reinsdorf?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 06:05 PM) I would say worst-case scenerio is these two never wear major league uniforms. If worst case scenerio is what you claim, KW should be in jail. Maybe he will be in jail if Wilder implicates him, lol. Wouldn't that be a shocker?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 06:00 PM) Supposedly Renteria is getting 2 years around $9 million a year. Cabrera is going to have to make a quick decision. That, at least, is in the White Sox interests if they don't want him. There's certainly no guarantee Cabrera would get a raise to $11-12 million. Right now, he's considered to be option #2 on the market to Furcal, and ahead of him by some because his asking price and years aren't going to be starting at four seasons....and he has been more durable/reliable the past couple of seasons. His game isn't as predicated on speed as Furcal's, and that's a good thing for a 34 year old SS. Then again, look at how long Vizquel has held on as a serviceable major leaguer. So I still don't see Cabrera coming back. There are about 3-5 teams that will go after him....Oakland, Dodgers, Cardinals, Twins, maybe the Angels.

QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:44 PM) I read somewhere that his fastball sits around 93 Worst-case scenario, Santos and Nunez (Yankees deal) are two promising young bullpen arms that contribute a couple of years from now. Lefties that throw 93 aren't easy to come by and are pretty valuable commodities, although we've now ditched two in Marte and Logan. Remembering the Everett trade, it was Frank Francisco who had the biggest impact. At the time, many really liked Anthony Webster and Rupe.

We'll see what numbers Renteria gets with the Giants. Cabrera would still prefer the certainty of 2-3 years from ANYONE else, rather than swallowing his pride and coming back to Chicago and Ozzie. At his age and with the beating his takes, he has to be concerned about an injury on a one year deal precluding his ever signing another big, long-term deal. When we see how much Abreu, Dunn, Griffey, Burrell and Rivera get, that should be another clue....along with the second tier of pitching, Wolf/Garland/Oliver Perez. And I'm still not convinced the A's are "frontrunners" for Furcal. It seems to be a smokescreen to me.

I really wonder if KW and Ozzie are thinking of making a run at Manny Ramirez for 2 seasons....although I am petty sure he'll get 3-4 elsewhere. It's not going to be Lowe or Burnett, we know that much. Sabathia and Sheets (because he could be had for less based on injuries, just like Harden) are more likely, but not high probability in any realm of the imagination. Peavy is certainly intriguing to talk about. I would rather pay Peavy big bucks than Dunn or Abreu, someone like that. I keep going back to 2005, and starting pitching wins championships. With all the pieces KW has to play with, I think our offense will be fine, if not much better than 2008 (unless we deal Dye, in which case it would be likely to take until 2010 with Fields, Viciedo, Beckham and even someone like Fernando Martinez making a true impact to see improvement in the offense).

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 05:34 PM) So to be clear, this is who we want to make Cabrera an offer: 1. Dodgers 2. Cardinals 3. Blue Jays 4. Twins 5. Angels And these are the teams we want to stay away: 1. Mariners 2. Orioles 3. Giants 4. Braves 5. Tigers 6. Athletics That is, if you care about 20 or so spots in the draft order. And I do. I would think the Blue Jays would want to put all their efforts into retaining Halladay, unless they auction him off in some kind of Herschel Walker-esque megatrade. They have huge money going to Wells and Rios, and I think Rolen's pretty expensive too, especially for what they're getting out of him. They have to really hope Snider explodes this year so they can move some of the veteran dollars. Didn't show enough patience with Jayson Werth, either, or ever really find a position for him.

Buscher and Brendan Harris played third the majority of the time. The Twins are deliberating moving Casilla to SS, which would open up a hole at 2B. They could play Tolbert over there, or move Harris, who is pretty weak defensively, especially at short...they have some options. They might end up signing Uribe as low cost insurance all around the diamond. I think I would prefer him to Punto, if the money's right.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 04:54 PM) Bobby Howry signs with the Giants, 1 year, $2.75 million. Edgar Renteria is closing in on a 2 year deal with the Giants. Trever Miller (Formerly of the Rays) signed a 1 year deal with the Cardinals. Former Brewer Russel Branyan signed a 1 year deal with the Mariners. The Giants were one of four teams in on Cabrera. The Dodgers would be the best bet, they don't want to pay Furcal's asking price or years. Or the Twins could factor in, although if they sign Blake, I don't know if they will bring in two pretty high-priced FA's in one offseason. I'll be somewhat shocked if it occurs. You also never know, the Tigers could also be interested in O-Cab, but they seem to be in cost-cutting mode, even considering dealing Ordonez unless they can figure out what to do with Willis. Carlos Guillen's also getting up there in age (I say that more in terms of wear and tear on his body), Sheffield, etc.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 04:38 PM) I know there has been alot of comments on how KW "steals" players from other teams, but I think this is a very common KW trade that works out good for both teams. Here is a comment from the Braves board www.talkingchop.com ATL gave up nothing that they needed for 2009 and may just may their rotation the best in their division. Most Braves' fans believe that Vazquez will be sold to them as their new "ace" and that they aren't going to spend the type of money necessary to beat the Yankees for Burnett, who will be frustrated losing Sabathia/Lowe and doubly determined to get at least one of the top 3. Hudson, there's no guarantee he will be healthy. Jurrgens, there's a lot of concern about such a young pitcher piling up so many innings...like we've had with Danks over the past couple of seasons. He's their ace right now, essentially. (thankfully, both Maybin and Jurrgens are out of the AL Central, but Porcello looms) Hanson has much to prove, but very talented.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 02:23 PM) Would you feel any more secure with: Indians: Lee, Carmona, Westbrook, Sowers, Reyes/Jackson, ETC Tigers Verlander, Miner, Bonderman, Galaragga, Willis/someone? Royals: Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Hochever, Davies/Duckworth, Everybody has as many question marks as we do. Every team has to rely on unproven talent at some point. Our biggest competition is the Twins, and they seem to be doing just fine with their collection of young arms. We can compete in this division with a young rotation. Hell, if Bailey and Poreda pan out We have the potential to dominate it. And if they don’t… we can always sign someone, we can trade for someone, we can bring up someone, or we can ride it out until Contreras gets that leg back under him. We have options. While I think we'll pursue a veteran starter to slot in this year, I don't find the prospect of having four of the (current) and former top pitching prospects in the game in our rotation particularly alarming. Westbrook might be out for all of 2009.....Lewis is likely to have a chance to keep his hot streak going. Sowers and Laffey figure in for 5th. Bonderman, there's no guarantees about his injury recovery, Galaragga is their 2 right now. Willis will be traded, with the Tiggers eating salary, and they still have Nate Robertson. For now, the Twins are the best, but Perkins and Blackburn ended up the season in shaky fashion, Liriano still has a lot to prove, Baker and Slowey have to repeat (just like Danks and Floyd) their success.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) You need to get your head of your ass and read into some sarcasm. I've seen Rivera play and I know his 2006 stats were great, but we're talking about a guy who has had a shattered leg in CF. Ummmm....sure. I know that how, exactly? By your saying he's a grinder, hahaha! does that mean you're saying he's not? But, in the end, what's the point exactly, and what does that add to the discussion? Maybe we need color codes like the other side for our "sarcastic" comments so we can differentiate those we know who are trying to be funny/sarcastic and those are unintentionally funny by making inane comments.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) But you're quoting Rivera's BEST year and comparing it to one of Dye's worst. Dye was exceptionally better than that in 1999, 2000, and 2001 before injuries really started to rock his boat. He had a track-record of All-Star caliber play, not just one year. But that's really his last full, healthy season...but you're right, I did also "cherry pick" that because people who don't know much about him are comparing him to Darin Erstad, Rob Mackowiak, Joe McEwing, Aaron Miles, David Eckstein, etc. That's just ridiculous. He's a much more gifted player than that label signifies. But the point remains, both were around 30, had major injury concerns hanging over them and signed for less than many other available players on the market (Dunn, Ibanez, Griffey maybe, Burrell, Abreu).

If the Yankees could have packaged Marquez and Hughes/Kennedy for Peavy, don't you think they would have done it already? Especially in light of the very high likelihood that Lowe and Sabathia go elsewhere and they're left with AJ Burnett aka Future Pavano.