caulfield12

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:13 PM) He is...awesome eye, tough to strike out, understands the strike zone, some speed, good handle of the bat...not much pop, but not totally punch and judy either. Getz is a nice player...will he make it all the way to the starting 9? Hard to say right now. Getz and Taveras are separated by only 10 points in their career minor league OBP's and OPS numbers. So their minor league numbers are almost identical in many respects. That's the reason most see Getz as a utility player and not as a starter...the same reason people would prefer Taveras for a 4th OF and pinch runner.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:08 PM) Grinder. 2006 In less than 500 at-bats (448 to be exact), Rivera hit 23 homers and had 85 RBI's with an .887 OPS and a .362 OBP. That really screams "grinder" to me. Have you ever seen Rivera play a game, seriously? The year (2004) before Jermaine Dye came on board with the Sox. 532 at-bats, 23 homers (the same number that Rivera hit in 84 less AB's), 80 RBI's, .793 OPS and a .329 OBP. Who's the grinder, now? Only the guy who has led the majors in homers for RFers cumulatively for the last four seasons. Almost the same exact age as JD came over here, if we were to obtain Rivera. It's not always stats, it's identifying the players who have the most upside when their value is at its lowest.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) The jury isnt out at all. No scouts talked about either of those guys like they talk about Poreda, its apples and oranges once again, which seems to be your best technique to make your point. Stop it with Borbon, its not gonna happen and is a terrible trade for us. We could get a ton more value for Jenks and Poreda. So you're on the record that Poreda will be a 3 starter or above at the big league level, yes? Because if not, giving up two relievers for a starting CFer and leadoff hitter under your control affordably for six years isn't such a bad move after all. Sure, we could trade for Matt Kemp or Nate McLouth, but that would cost us even more.

Well, I don't think Hawk will be forgetting to fawn over Carlos Gomez when we're playing the Twins if Getz or Lillibridge are our leadoff hitters for significant chunks of 2009. I don't think anyone can mention those names with 100% confidence...it's like a dart you throw at the wall and hope will stick, like batting Swisher there. Getz, from everything I've read, is the perfect 2 hitter, just like Cabrera would/could have been had we other options at leadoff.

That's all fine and good, but we didn't get back Morton or Reyes. They would be interested in Poreda for sure, but the likes of Richard, Broadway and Ely? Not so much...at least not as the centerpieces of any Peavy trade. I would gladly give them Poreda, Richard, Broadway and Ely and it still wouldn't be enough to get the deal done.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:53 AM) So Juan Rivera is going to lead off and play CF after shattering his leg, posting a .282 OBP, and playing one game in center over the last 2 years? Cool. NO, NO, NO!!! Who said anything about CF? Nobody that I can see. I want Borbon from the Rangers for CF...Rivera would play LF, Quentin would shift to RF with the likely Dye trade. Remember someone else who shattered his leg even worse, came over here on a "value" contract and proceeded to become a Top 5 AL MVP caliber player. A guy by the name of Jermaine Dye, hopefully that rings a bell. Wish we could look at the thread the day he was signed, I'm sure there were many similar comments to the ones being made about Rivera, although I'll grant you JD was a better player than Rivera was before they each broke their legs. Similar ages and everything. And Rivera would put up 30 homers playing 81 games at USCF.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:52 AM) If by Guillen type of player you mean someone he would bury on the bench, then ok. And KW will give you a legit answer within the month, so stay tuned. I bet it wont be Julio Borbon for a top closer and our best pitching prospect though. No, he's the type of player (unlike Swisher and Cabrera) who would fit in perfectly with our current clubhouse. Best pitching prospect? Well, recently, that's been the likes of Lance Broadway or Adam Russell. The jury is still out on Mr. Poreda. I hope he makes it as a starter and becomes the next Scott Kazmir and we forget about Porcello for a week or two. But I'm not counting my chickens until they're hatched here.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) Rivera can also play all 3 outfield positions well and has a cannon for an arm. I've seen a lot of Rivera over the years and I know damn well that if he's healthy, he's a productive outfielder and would be a very nice value pickup. The Angels are planning on bringing him back though, but I think he'd welcome the opportunity from another team since the Angels have so many outfielders. Rivera is a FA now, is he not?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) Apples and oranges. Quentin was a top prospect, much higher rated than Borbon. Trading Jenks for him is very stupid. Rivera is not good. He is 30 years old, has been declining, and isnt much better if better at all than what we have on our club right now. Once again, I want someone to give me a legitimate option for CF and leadoff...and what you'd realistically give up to get that player. Rivera is a Guillen type of player...

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:40 AM) Agreed. Poreda for Borbon would be a deal the Rangers would consider making. Why in god sakes would you also include Jenks. Thanks but no thanks. Why would the Rangers want a LH reliever for someone who can be a starting CFer? I think we're overvaluing Aaron Poreda way too much here, and undervaluing Josh Fields.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:32 AM) I think I just puked on my computer. Rivera=terrible. If I wanted a sub .300 OBP and a sub .800 OPSfrom a corner OF'er, why wouldnt I fill that from within? Jenks Poreda and Anderson for Borbon=an awful trade. Why would we trade one of our top spects and a good closer for the Ranger's #8 spect? Because of his 2006 season. Click on link. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4956 When he's been healthy, Rivera has been a VERY productive player. And let's face it, KW signs players like this before he goes out to spend money on a Dunn, Ibanez, Burrell or Abreu. That's just not Kenny Williams. Signing Rivera is, because he would sign for only two years and he would be a very affordable option. Who would our internal candidates be for LF, if we traded Dye? Fields or Viciedo? We don't have anyone but Owens and Wise that could play at the big league level. I don't care where Borbon is ranked...that doesn't matter to me. If it did, Iowa football would never win a single game based on their recruiting, except for possibly Northwestern on occasion. Quentin wasn't even going to make the team, and Alexei Ramirez was a combination of Ramon Santiago/Mario Mendoza and Miguel Cairo. Poreda is only REALLY valuable if he's going to be a starter. Adam Russell was also one of our top prospects and he's worth basically nothing now. Of course, Poreda is left-handed and throws a tick slower than Thornton, but there's a very mixed sentiment about his abilities as a starter. As I said, don't make the trade if you feel he can develop a 3rd pitch that's at least something that can be used 10-15% of the time to keep hitters off your fastball.

At first glance giving up Jenks and Poreda seems kind of crazy. On the other hand, the Rangers really need a closer, and I'm not convinced that Poreda will ever be a starter. If you feel it's 50/50 he can develop a 3rd pitcher or cutter, then you have to hold onto him, because lefty starter with his arm are golden. Then again, there are reports that his delivery has some flaws, that it's certainly not a smooth, repeatable motion like Matt Thornton's and that he might be an injury liability. Take all those things into consideration, I think you go out and get Borbon. I've watched Owens, Anderson, Mackowiak, Rowand, Griffey, Swisher, etc...trading away Webster, Rowand, Young and Reed. I just want to see a legit, everyday player with All-Star ability out there...Anderson has All-Star defensive ability, but I just don't see KW and Ozzie giving him a starting job with the White Sox again. And I wouldn't be shocked if he were traded, seeing the door swinging shut on Crede, Cabrera, Swisher and Logan...and some pointed and not so unsubtle jabs following those guys. The only one who's leaving on pretty "good" terms is Uribe.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:12 AM) I think they need to get a pitcher and Cfer as things stand right now. If you move Dye, than you need to get a pitcher, Cfer and another bat. That CF better fill the top of the order too. At that point I can live with giving Getz/Lillbridge/Nix the shot at 2B, Ramirez SS, and Fields/Viciedo/Betemeit 3B. Here's my scenario. Sign Juan Rivera for 2 years at a reasonable contract for LF (there's your other bat). Move Quentin over to RF. Trade Jenks, Poreda and Owens/Anderson for J. Borbon from the Rangers, solving your leadoff and CF problem. (only if KW feels strongly Poreda won't be a starter) Trade Dye for a young starting pitcher and possibly a second prospect (could be Jackson, Bailey, etc., whoever KW has his eye on) Keep Konerko and Thome together for one last season. Get ready to sign a veteran FA pitcher for the 4th/5th spot. Go with Fields/Viciedo/Betemit at 3B and Lillibridge/Getz/Nix/Betemit at 2B.

Fathom, I'll respond to your comment earlier. I think we can still compete THIS year with Borbon in the line-up in CF...Minnesota did it with Gomez, and I think Borbon will be a much better all-around player from everything I've seen, read and heard. Sure, we can also get a Taveras or Michael Bourne one-dimensional type, or simply platoon Owens/Anderson, Fields/Betemit and Lillibridge or Getz and Betemit at 2B. Nix, I think, will end up in AAA to start the season and try to rebuild his career. The White Sox have proven over the last 15 years we can find and replace closers fairly easily...for the chance to get an All-Star caliber CF who will be cheap/affordable for six years, at the cost of a closer whose salary is increasing and a pitcher in Poreda who may or may not have what it takes to be a starter, you make this kind of deal in a heartbeat. And we'll throw in BA or Owens just for good measure. Any time you can trade a reliever, even a closer for an everyday player up the middle (C, SS, CF), you have to give it strong consideration. Now this is all contingent on getting at least one veteran and another quality starting pitching prospect (like a Bailey or Edwin Jackson) back... A rotation of Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Jackson and a veteran fifth starter (FA signing) could easily take this division, possibly with Borbon and even Viciedo or Beckham playing key roles down the stretch.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:02 AM) I think he just knows that he pretty much has two spots, catcher and DH. In the NL he only had one spot which means if he was stuck behind a good catcher he might just not be able to get the opportunity (such as in Atlanta, where he was stuck behind McCann). Now not only could he come up as a catcher, but if the club already had a top notch catcher, he could make an impact as a DH. That's not the case with Flowers, of course. His power and strike-zone discipline were evident when he was hitting .288/.427/.494 at high Class A Myrtle Beach, and he already was one of Atlanta's best prospects, so his AFL performance won't rocket him up our list. Flowers still has a lot of work to do in all facets of catching, and he may never be McCann's equal as a defender. You never know how things will play out, so for now the Braves will keep him behind the plate, where he has the most value. If McCann remains entrenched once Flowers is ready for the majors, Flowers then could move to first base, though Casey Kotchman could provide an obstacle there. It would be a stretch to play Flowers on an outfield corner. from ask Baseball America.com

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:05 AM) Tim Brown over at Yahoo is saying Thome and Konerko are available as well... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-v...o&type=lgns I think this has to be a case of "what would these guys bring back?" rather than realistic possibilities of a trade going down, especially with Jim Thome. Konerko was thought to have a high likelihood to go if Swisher stayed at the beginning of the offseason...so I guess it comes down to who wants Texiera the most and if the Angels/Yankees are legitimately interested in Paulie as a fallback option? With Jenks, Dye and Konerko all being put on the market, though, it certainly makes for a very entertaing and surprising offseason filled with suspense and intrigue.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:00 AM) Yep. Word out of the AFL is that people were pretty impressed with the development of his slider. Enough so to put him on the top 20 AFL prospects list. I think this has been brought up before, but I wonder how much it would cost us to get Borbon from the Rangers? Jenks + ??? I'm not sure if he's worth Jenks AND Poreda, but I can't see the Rangers having much interest in Josh Fields since they're bringing back Blalock apparently. Maybe Anderson or Owens is thrown into the overall package as well as yet another part of KW's "housecleaning" of Ozzie's doghouse. How good is this kid going to be? Who is he most compared to in terms of his game and style of play?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 09:46 AM) You really think a bat is what they are after when there are two glaring holes in the rotation? One of those holes will be filled. Who is the girl in the picture with the Sox hat on?

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 10:12 AM) Viewed as a Garland for Vazquez swap (plus the added Braves prospects), I don't think it would be such a bad deal IF we could get him (as a Type B free agent) for 3/$38. I think at least some of this freed up cash should go into the rotation, and a sure 200 innnings and double digit wins is nothing to sneeze at. I may still be wearing my 2005 blinders, but I see Garland > Wolf > Perez, and think he is the best of the "second tier" free agent pitchers out there. Well, mixing in Perez with Buehrle, Danks, Poreda and Richard doesn't seem to make much sense. Wolf has that injury history...Garland and Vazquez are similar in many respects, minus the big K numbers. Durable, innings eater, .500 record of consistent inconsistency, some brilliance, lots of disappointment and something of an enigma, especially Vazquez.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 10:07 AM) Here's a quote from a mlb.com article yesterday I found interesting... "I would doubt that I would start on [or] make the [Major League] club (in 2009)," Beckham said on a conference call Tuesday afternoon. "[The White Sox] said as soon as I go back to Minor League ball I will be playing shortstop every day until they want to bring me up." Well, I guess it's always better to keep him at the position (if he can play it adequately) where he has the highest possible value...just like Lillibridge. I suppose some quotes might come out from Lillibridge about him dusting off his outfielder's glove again...or maybe playing somewhere in Winter Ball (late addition) if the White Sox can arrange it with a host team.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:56 AM) I'd rather see Betemit starting than Josh Fields. Seriously. You've seen his career splits, LH and RH, yes? He would be acceptable as part of a platoon, but probably not as an everyday player. Of course, the same was said of Alexei Ramirez, too, before 2008. Maybe, just maybe, he'll finally unlock his long overhyped potential with the Sox. Who knows...?

I think there are a couple of major concerns. 1) Peavy REALLY REALLY wants to stay in the NL. Pretty wise on his part. 2) JR and our history with pitchers with huge contracts (which isn't very long at all)...it's pretty much non-existent. I think there would be interest in 2009, but there has to be a reluctance for the Sox to commit to $48 million over the following three years in an uncertain economy. Then again, we were committed to Vazquez for $23 million over two years and he's not nearly the same caliber of starter as Jake Peavy. But I will believe it when I see it out of KW and JR. They definitely will not be bidding on Sabathia, Lowe or Burnett, that's for sure...and doubt they would consider Sheets, either. Peavy, 27, will make $8 million in 2009, $15 million in 2010, $16 million in 2011 and $17 million in 2012, and he has a 2013 option for $22 million, with a $4 million buyout.

No way to Garland!! We just cleared the salary of a very "average" 4th starter in Vazquez. No need to reverse the gain of clearing that payroll and turn around and get similar or even worse (albeit predictable) results. Wolf, Oliver Perez and Garland will all get $10-12 million per season, and 3-4 year contracts. Heck, if Kyle Lohse can get 4/41, Garland might even get $48/4 despite his pretty pedestrian season. The Angels also offered him arbitration, FWIW. The Astros didn't with Wolf.

QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:09 AM) It was an absolute mirage. And please, don't call it a 98 MPH fastball. That's ridiculous -- he averaged a fastball a tad lower than 94 on the season. You can "flash" a 98 MPH (heck, even Zach Greinke can do this when he wants) and still consistently be 92-95, which is what Jackson's profile would tell you.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:43 AM) KW is like an OOTP GM. Now if the Sox could just trade Josh Fields so I don't have to think about that f***up anymore, my offseason will be starting very very well. Casey Blake wants $20 million for 3 years at age 35. Beltre would cost us a ton. We don't know how good Atkins and Kouzmanoff would be transitioning from the NL, particularly from Coors Field. That leaves us Betemit/Viciedo as the starters...not sure that's such a good idea. Not to mention we already bought high and sold fairly low on Swisher, we should probably hold on for at least Spring Training and see what he can do and whether it would be wise to trade him or not. He might be SOMEWHAT in Ozzie's doghouse, but not like Swisher, Logan and Vazquez were. I wonder if a BA trade is next, lol?