caulfield12

I don't think we'll see Garland back here again...and I'm not so certain he won't get more than $9 million per season and more than three years...we'll see. He's still an incredibly young (and up until this point) durable/reliable pitcher, in a similar way to Vazquez, but with a much better post-season record. Maybe he'll end up with the Giants, Padres, Dodgers, D-Backs, Rockies, Mariners...just have the sense he wants to stay close to the Left Coast. Then again, the Yankees or Mets come calling and pack your bags, it's off to Gotham City. But I don't see him really desiring to play in a place like NY, Boston or Philadelphia and dealing with the writers' persistent questions.

As with Griffey and Konerko in the first half, you really have to give Fields at least ONE more chance before you ditch him at near rock-bottom value. The guy projected to a mid 30's homer season if he played more than 100 games two years ago. That's not shabby. And, most importantly, his contract/youth makes him a player who has to succeed unless we want a $135-150 million payroll, which isn't very realistic. Anyone who's played baseball knows that your knee (especially plant or back leg) being messed up, your wrists, your hips, your ribcage (pulled rib muscles are the worst in the world for an athlete in a sport like baseball, basketball, tennis or golf) is vitally important to having a "power" swing...see Griffey/Konerko 2008...and I think they will at least give him another chance to win the job in spring training. Might be wrong, but I think KW would prefer to roll the dice with Fields and Nix/Getz than with Anderson/Owens and having no leadoff hitter against LH pitchers (certainly BA is never going to be a leadoff hitter...and there are huge doubts about his ability to be an everyday player, at least in Chicago).

He pitched about as well as any of the Sox pitchers this post-season (Dotel looked good, too)...he certainly had a couple of pretty good starts that gives SOME hope for the guy, he didn't get completely blasted and disappear into oblivion like Arnie Munoz. I think of him as Mike Porzio or Josh Stewart with better stuff, lol.

This whole idea of picking up draft picks all over the place is all fine and good, but it has never really been a key consideration (previously) because we were always "reloading" on the run and have never really taken the time to try to build depth for 2-3 years down the line, always trying to win it all each year...maybe he's starting to realize (KW) that the depth from the picks (if they are utilized by the scouting department and the money's there to sign them) gives him more ammunition to make moves for player like Roberts and Beltre, etc. We aren't that far off...if only Borchard had become a reliable player, we'd have a powerful LH bat in the middle of the line-up to go with Josh Fields and Chris Young...at least 60-65% of our problems would have been solved.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Nov 1, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) I've seen too many old washed up players in a Sox uniform to be all feel good happy about Griffey wearing it. Ron Santo, George Foster, Rocky Colavito, Steve Carlton, to name just a few. Bo Jackson Tom Seaver (although he gave us some productive years) Roberto Alomar Sandy Alomar Steve Sax Cory Snyder David Wells

In which case, KW would probably ask for some kind of verbal/gentleman's (if such a word is possible with that slimeball) agreement (like the option year on Thome being covered by Gillick...handshake deal) on an extension to be announced shortly after the trade, not unlike the Garcia midseason move. Otherwise, no deal...or the talent we give up is markedly different considering he would likely be just a one year rental or band-aid for the new hole at 3B.

Whatever you say about Vazquez, he gives you pretty much near-certainty of 200 IP, around a 4.3-4.7 ERA, lots of strikeouts (for Roto players), a .500 record, 30+ starts and maddening inconsistency...the question is where or how we get that from someone else? Can we acquire another pitcher for less than $11.5 million that will give us the same thing on the FA market? If we can do that, which is far from a certainty, then you can move Vazquez and fix some of the holes in the bullpen, 3B, 2B/SS and CF.

Well, remember his comments last offseason about DET making the moves for Willis and Cabrera to put them in a position to compete with the Sox? He always has a certain bragaddocio...that said, he's seen the likes of Julio Ramirez, Willie Harris, D'Angelo Jimenez and many other "speculative" moves on "undervalued/underachieving/injured" projects or suspects backfire. So really, what he has done is given us emergency or back-up plans (Plan C or D) on his list while he goes out and tries to improve the team going forward.

If you remember, that deal was for Taveras, Buchholz and Hirsch...I guess Taveras would give you a better arm and defense than Pods, as long as we got the expected power from the rest of the line-up and the production at 3B and 2B is AL-average, then we WOULD/SHOULD be okay... I really don't see us going into the season with an Anderson/Owens platoon in CF, Fields, and Nix/Getz at 2B.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 05:33 PM) Atkins and Kouzmanoff would be nice, and Figgins would be better as a 2B option. But, Beltre's too expensive, & Blake and Mora seem too old. Blake would be fine for a two year contract, with Beckham slotted to take his place in mid 2010 or play 2B and then move back over to 3B in 2011 to start the season. Maybe he will be an exception to the rule (remember the days of Thomas and Ventura making more immediate impacts...or Alex Fernandez?) and play for the Sox next season, but I'm not counting on that yet.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 31, 2008 -> 06:48 PM) The problem with this team isn't base-stealing speed. The problem is 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home. That's the kind of speed we need, not Owens, not Taveras, but more like Quentin or Anderson. If they steal a base, great...but taking an extra base is more important with this team. Ramirez, Wise, Ozuna (when he was here), Cabrera, Uribe (the somewhat skinnier version)

Blake, Kouzmanoff, Atkins, Mora, Figgins, Beltre

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,4417740.story Not really any "new" news in this article. Speculation about Uribe going to SF as a starter, Fields starting at 3B, Nix and Getz competing for the 2B spot...theorizes about Hall coming back or Cole Armstrong. Talks a little about the Sox probably cutting ties now with Joe Crede after a decade. Quotes from KW about Fields and trying to operate "more under the radar" this Winter Meetings.

I forgot about Colon...I guess, because like David Wells, he really didn't want to be a member of the White Sox in his heart.

Owens/Anderson platoon in CF means we deal Swisher or Konerko. It's a possible, although unlikely, scenario. I'm sure Taveras would get back twice the return on the open market that KW putting up Owens for "sale/bid" would.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 09:37 PM) Octavio is off the books after '09 and barring a total collapse next year will bring Type A compensation. Even though he gets bumped up to I believe $6M next year, he's still affordable. In order for the Sox to give up Type A comp in 2010 plus open up a hole in the bullpen and only get $6M in salary relief they would have to be bowled over, and I doubt any team is going to give up the type of talent necessary to do that when they could just sign a reliever on the open market. With Jenks it is another story because he's under control for a while still. Do you really feel confident Dotel will stay 100% healthy for another season? I'm not so sure. We shall see. Would you, as another team's GM, sign Octavio Dotel if it meant giving up two high draft picks? I wouldn't even consider it for a nano-second.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 09:25 PM) I think it's too risky to sell a star like Jenks for position prospects, but I'd do Jenks for Jackson and Morlan in a heartbeat. My original idea was to try to add Dye and work in another SP prospect too because that would allow the Sox to deal Javy for pitching. The Braves, Nats, and Mets all look like reasonable targets for Javy. JoJo Reyes + Cole Rohrbaugh, Joel Hanrahan + Josh Smoker, Jon Niese + Duaner Sanchez - those are the kinds of deals I'd like to see for Javy. If you want to send Dye elsewhere, what about to Texas for a deal centered around Eric Hurley? Again, I don't know how realistic this would be, but if the Sox could end up trading Dye, Jenks, and Javy, and bring back Edwin Jackson, Eric Hurley, and Jon Niese to compete for two SP slots, and then add a potential future closer in Morlan to the front of the pen, and in the process drop about $26M off of payroll, deepen the farm, and get younger in the future, why not? I'm sure there are other places Dye can go to hit just as well. He is better at home than on the road, but he still hit 16 HR's away compared to 18 at home last year. The average and SLG% is down away, but that's like that with a lot of players. If you're saying Dye can't get the ball over the fence in other parks I think you're wrong and understating his power. I don't want Baldelli. If he was perfectly healthy I'd love to pencil him in CF every day, but only playing a few days per week and sometimes not even full games is just waaaay too much hassle. Every spot on the 25-man roster is important, and I'd want the comfort of knowing that my fourth OF can play a full 9 innings three or four days in a row if necessary without collapsing on the field. Yeah we're not getting BJ or CC but everybody knows that. Besides I wouldn't want to target players like that anyway. We need to take our few valuable but aging assets and continue to exchange them for a younger core. Targeting a Crawford or Upton type would require us to deal our core from several areas to become significantly better in one, and then we'd have to fill the new holes we've opened with older players again. Not having a legit closer can really hurt, but it helps to have a pitcher who is 1) not a headcase, 2) has at least pretty good control, 3) is generally healthy over an entire season, and 4) has good enough stuff to get hitters out. Thornton fits that criteria and many of the guys that teams like the Tigs and Indians have trotted out there do not. When you put garbage on the mound you should at some point expect garbage results, and thankfully Thornton isn't garbage. Actually, Zumaya and Rodney have very good stuff, they just don't always execute...even Dolsi to a lesser extent. Now the Indians are a different story...they deserved the problems they got going into last season as they did what THAT pen.

Well, now its Chone Figgins/Brian Roberts talk. Which I guess is better than Alex Cintron, Mackowiak, Daubach, Julio Ramirez or Armando Rios talk. I kind of miss D'Angelo Jimenez and Royce Clayton, they gave Sox posters so much deep and rich material to work with. FWIW, I don't think Edwin Jackson is close to being on the radar of young/inconsistent starters the Sox would target in a theoretical Jenks deal...it would have to be someone with legit potential to be a 3 starter or above (Danks/Floyd/Matt Garza, etc.)

Peavy makes little or no sense. We would have to give up Poreda, Fields and Swisher probably. They won't be interested in Dye or Konerko as much. As mentioned, the White Sox have been better off during the Williams regime finding pitchers on the scrap heap (Loaiza, Eldred, Jenks, Hermanson and Thornton) and prospects (Danks/Floyd) rather than spending money/talent on a big acquisition. David Wells and Todd Ritchie were the only really big/splashy moves he made...and those moves came early in his tenure. I think he really learned from the Ritchie move about overprojecting "decent" NL pitchers who pitch under little or no pressure for depth/quantity in the pitching department. In fact, it wasn't until 3 seasons later that the organization was able to recover from trades and injuries to put a decent 5th starter on the mound.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 05:54 PM) Jackson was left off the ALDS roster only because they needed 3, at most 4, SP plus they have a ton of middle relievers. He was on the ALCS and WS roster, going 4.1IP and giving up 1 run on 2 H. Edwin Jackson would have made our team's full postseason roster and most other teams' full postseason rosters. The Rays have an embarrassment of talent if you haven't heard. Fernando Perez? Are you serious? I want real difference makers, not soon-to-be 26-year-old fast guys who can't hit for any power. The guy struck out 156 times in Triple A in 2008. I want him nowhere near this team. Gomes is another all-or-nothing hacker. The idea is to get better, not tread water. If you're going to make this move, it's better to do Jenks for Jackson and a prospect (3B/CF/plus arm out of pen) Dye is much more valuable to the White Sox than perhaps any team out there, because of the park he plays in...that's why he has led MLB RF'ers in home runs from 2005-2008. I'm not serious about Perez...although I would love to have Baldelli as a fourth outfielder, not sure that's realistic. But we are not going to get Carl Crawford or BJ Upton, end of story. If we really are serious thinking that Jenks' value (and fastball) have peaked, and this is certainly the window of time when he is most valuable to another team (before he hits Free Agency and gets an even bigger contract)...then KW will take that risk. I just don't think he does it unless he feels 100% confident in either Thornton or Russell. The White Sox have shown time and time again (Howry, Foulke, Takatsu, Hermanson, Jenks...Koch was the only "name" reliever and his name was mud quickly enough) that they have the ability to find "under the radar" closers who don't cost tons of money. As someone mentioned, is the difference between a 75 and 85% save conversion rate worth having an extra $12 million to play around with and a young/affordable/high potential starter in Edwin Jackson that's under our control for X number of years? However, as the Indians and Tigers have learned (and we saw during the Koch Era), not having a legit closer can have disastrous results on overall team morale.

QUOTE (MO2005 @ Oct 30, 2008 -> 11:11 AM) Resigning Griffey?? Why? The guy is old, slow, and not what we need. Geez while we are at it why don't we bring back Roberto Alomar to play 2nd, Griffey plays center, and sign Kenny Rogers..Just sign all the old and over the hill players!! I'm completely behind Sandy Alomar/Charles Johnson at catcher and Greg Norton/Perry/Snopek for 3B. If unavailable, Widger, Fordyce or Mark Johnson.

Do the Giants want to keep getting older and slower, though? With the move from the opening post, we're taking way too many chances. For all I know, Adam Russell would be a better closer than Matt Thornton. One thing's for certain, I don't think I would ever want to see Thornton come into a close or tied game in the 9th inning with runners on base...maybe his actual stats counter this somewhat, but his numbers of runners inherited/scored can't be all that great. Maybe I am letting some particularly bad memories influence me here. Edwin Jackson was so valued by the Rays that he was left off their post-season roster...the White Sox might be better off targeting someone who really knows how to pitch, like Sonnanstine, even though Jackson has much better stuff overall. While the idea is a good one, Jermaine Dye on turf (I mentioned this elsewhere) even for one year is a risky proposition for any team. 85-90 games counting TOR and MIN, not to mention the fact he's a West Coast guy. I don't think we can begin to count on anything from Contreras for 09, and KW certainly isn't...hopefully he learned from the Crede situation, although we accidentally (the Uribe re-signing) had a capable back-up there to fill in the gap. If we went into 08 with Fields as the starter and Crede gone, we might (even probably) would have ended up missing the playoffs. Just a feeling. As far as more realistic, start talking Fernando Perez and Rocco Baldelli, lol. Or Johnny Gomes. Gomes, like Cantu, put up some very solid offensive seasons but has fallen off the map and is still a relatively young player.

But would Tampa really want someone with Dye's lack of range playing on artificial turf (including TOR and MIN) around 90-95 games per season? With Jermaine's history, it seems a recipe for disaster. Granted, he has been very healthy with us for the last four years, but you can't expect that to last forever realistically. I think TB knows that the key to winning is pitching, speed and defense for them, and they have enough pop with Pena and Longoria. Of course, they'd be better off with Dye playing instead of Baldelli or Fernando Perez...but I think JD's most valuable to the Sox because of our stadium. And I doubt he would fetch both a quality/young/affordable starting pitcher and one of the most reliable RH relievers in the game today (especially in the post-season). Would MIL really want to take on $15 million in salaries for veterans, give up a popular/younger player in Hardy who plays the most important position on the diamond (along with catcher and CF)...I mean, if you want to make Dotel the closer, fine, but MIL paying $6.5 million for a set-up guy who has shades of Eric Gagne written all over him is unlikely. Yeah, I know that Octavio's K/IP ratio was amazing, but his performance in really crucial situations over the second half of the season left a LOT to be desired. I also think Escobar SHOULD be a good/great player, but as we know with prospects (see Andy Marte or Brandon Wood), just assuming someone will take over a position for 5-6 years is fraught with peril at times. An Escobar failure or return to AAA leaves MIL looking silly for dealing Hardy. Paying an aging/injury-prone Furcal more than anyone on the roster (especially the likes of Konerko, Dye, Buehrle, who got us WS rings and signed for below market value to an extent) seems to be an ill-advised move. I know the back end of the contract evens it out a little bit, but this doesn't seem like a KW move to me at all, in terms of the financial underpinning of the deal. Thome's deal is close, but we're getting the "subsidy" to lower that $16 million by around half, correct? Like the Garcia move better than most pitching options out there.

Is the $400K guaranteed or just if he makes the MLB roster? Or is it a split contract where he would be paid Charlotte wages if he doesn't make the team out of ST?

FWIW, Reyes was more of a bargain than I thought. Only $1 million salary in 2008. Especially compared to Mike MacDougal.