caulfield12

Which I'm sure BA will do again (probably to no avail, because OG knows he's a great 4th/5th outfielder and defensive substitute) when KW goes out again and gets yet another new CFer.

My point was if there's not a "clear cut" reason to play someone (like Griffey versus Anderson) and you could make legitimate arguments both ways, then Ozzie almost always goes with the veteran player and is more comfortable with that decision. Or Fields versus Uribe. Whether you agree or disagree, there's always baseball logic behind every decision he makes usually. Mackowiak versus Anderson, etc. Same thing with the bullpen guys...although I think in the end he gave Boone Logan 2-3 too many chances, we still managed to make the playoffs and Boone had NUMEROUS opportunities to redeem himself. Same thing with Ramirez...until Ozzie had no choice but to go with Clayton Richard (which is an example where Guillen chose a rookie over a more experienced player). Erstad versus Anderson...etc. People keep treating Wise like he's a rookie, but he has more overall playing experience than Swisher in baseball. He's 4 years older and maybe Ozzie feels he's "hungrier." I don't know. Or maybe he just likes to go with the hottest hand available? I've been arguing around here the last month WHY Ozzie isn't dumb or a bad manager...check the threads.

The problem with trading Dotel is... 1) He actually looked like he had better stuff down the stretch, at least in the playoffs. 2) We have very little RH depth if Linebrink goes down again... 3) Unless Adam Russell is trusted to take this spot 4) Wasserman, Carrasco, etc. are better as 5th-7th inning guys or situational relievers I'm all for getting someone like Chad Bradford. Dude is unscored upon in 17 playoff appearances with 5 different teams (I think he did allow an inherited runner to score against us in 2000 in the SEA ALDS). But would you have rather have Bradford at $6.5 million or Dotel? I guess if you don't have enough trust/confidence, then you say Bradford. However, other GM's are more enamored with "stuff" set-up guys, and even though Dotel's lucky to touch 94 these days, he will have had one more off-season to recover from all his injury problems, and a relatively healthy full-season to build off of. The strikeout/IP ratio is a killer one...with some of his late-inning debacles, you wonder when he racked up all those impressive stats sometimes.

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 10:49 AM) Does anyone think the Angels will try to resign Teixeira? Because if they did there's no reason for them to want Konerko. I don't know what Garret Anderson's contract is like, but he's basically Mr. Angel. Hunter just signed a deal last year, Guerrero will still be there. I think Matthews still has a contract going into next year. I would guess there's about an 85-90% probability that Garret Anderson is gone...the club has that major issue in the offseason, along with losing K-Rod and Tex probably. They have Mathews, Jr., still long-term, Hunter long-term, Guerrero, Willits and Juan Rivera for depth. I think they will either cut his salary 20% or let him go...will be interesting to see what happens, he's obviously a very popular player in the Tim Salmon/Wally Joyner mold in Angels' lore.

Who in God's name are we going to trade to get the franchise player (along with Longoria) of the newly-popular Rays??? Crawford for our entire minor league system? I know he's not THAT good, but I think Rocco Baldelli or Johnny Gomes are much more realistic targets....especially Baldelli. I think if the Rays won the WS, getting Crawford would be more difficult than trading for Ichiro or A-Rod. The only way we could do that is if we traded them Jenks...and made Thornton or Dotel closer. Our best trade pieces (Quentin...well, he's also a LFer, Poreda, they have five starters and David Price already...Fields (Longoria, nope) and Ramirez (Iwamura, nope again)...maybe if the offer was Jenks and Dye (to move to DH/RF), they would do the deal. That puts Swisher in LF, Crawford in CF (where has he a weak arm), Quentin in RF. Or Swisher in RF, Quentin in LF and Crawford in CF. Or Crawford in LF, Swisher in CF and Quentin in RF. The problem is that none of those are perfect combinations, the first one being the best option IMO. It also gives us the speed we need at the top of the order and another LH bat. But we're paying a HEAVY price to give up Jenks with no obvious replacement and just hoping Dotel/Thornton/Linebrink can get it done.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) You know what I found odd, I sit in a part of the park where you can see the Sox dugout. OC keeps all of his stuff down in the corner by himself, helmet, bat, etc. I found this odd, I am not sure why, I just did. OC kind of grew on me though. He seemd ot have Jose Valentin type mental lapses and made some stupid plays. I am really neutral on him and realize there may not be better alternatives. He seemd to be a guy that had a personality defect and may have been misunderstood. While I know nothing of his psyche he just seemed to be different in his personality. Sprinting out of the dugout on the Ramirez slam was cool and flew in the face of all I thought I knew of him. He seemed kind of like an outcast or someone that has trouble fitting in with people......he also seemed to be.....not sure how to put it......a little slow. Although that is simply from watching him on tv so I could be way off base. Boston gave up on him in a heartbeat so I am not sure what to make. Since baseball began, all the Hispanic players (especially those who have trouble with English or have just arrived to play baseball) have bonded closely on every team, whether it's the majors or minors. I just think the other Hispanic players have a huge amount of pride and "brotherhood" for each other to see another succeeding, especially someone like Alexei, who seems to be a nice guy on and off the field. It was this way in 2005 with the Sox and always will be...these players usually come from poverty-stricken backgrounds and they can relate to each so much better than players from other countries can...and when their quotes are misinterpreted or "phonetically" captured or the English isn't corrected (this happens to Guillen constantly), they tend to rally around each other, an island in the middle of the team. He's not slow in a John Rocker type of way...he's just someone who has learned English as his second language, and is not always as comfortable using it or speaking with the press due to incidents in the past that soured him on dealing with the media.

You're dreaming. Imagine the Tigers offered Curtis Granderson (who's about twice as valuable as Dye at this point because of the position he plays, his age, and contract status) for Alexei Ramirez, Aaron Poreda and another prospect. What would your reaction be? While Alexei (this season at least) is a better player than Figgins, past performance is not always an indicator of future returns. Would ANY White Sox fan want to make that deal? Well, that's basically what you're asking the Angels for "renting" a player for one year at age 35.

I've spent a lot of time in Cartagena. Cabrera is like a god there....he paved all the streets in the neighborhood where he grew up and he built a luxurious high rise apartment near the Caribbean for his parents and him to live during the offseason, when he's not in Miami or the States. I actually considered renting a unit from OC...just down the street from where Diego Maradona had gastric bypass surgery, lol. Now Renteria, he hates OC. And vice-versa. Edgar's from Baranquilla, hometown of Shakira and Sofia Vergara (google her, she's foxy). I worked with Renteria's brother to put together a baseball camp while I was down there in 05-06.

Sorry, I can never tell which ones are legitimate trade proposals around here. Oops.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 09:21 AM) What about Vasquez,Thome and Contreras for Lincecum and Rowand? We would get a pitcher who has the potential to be a CY young contender for the next 10 years. Rowand would look better on the basepaths than someone like JD. I'm not sure what the Giants needs are. But, Thome is the Slugger they are lacking since Bonds , Vasquez would be a better fit for the NL and Contreras is the real wild card here. our team can look like this Hudson 2b Ramirez SS CQ LF Dye DH Swisher RF Konerko 1b AJ C Rowand CF Fields 3b Lincecum Buehrle Danks Floyd Who Cares I applaud your enthusiam, young man. Thome's too old to play 1B everyday, an injury waiting to happen, and the Giants are in the process of getting much younger, not older. Lincecum and Cain are pretty much untouchables. Contreras won't pitch again before next August, and maybe never again. Retirement is a possibility. You can't trade a player that's injured. They've already sunk too much money into Zito, they would have no interest adding Javy. Vazquez is the type of pitcher a contending team with a $100 million plus payroll can afford to add to the roster as the 4th/5th starter, as long as he doesn't have to start a game in the post-season.

That Halladay/Rios deal might be the worst trade in the history of not only the Blue Jays, but the entire American League East. While they're at it, they might as well give us Snider and Vernon Wells for Getz, Richard, Jose Martinez and Juan Silverio.

Brad Penny Juan Pierre Luis Castillo Casey Blake You can argue about Pierre and Anderson, but I think taking a flier on Penny isn't the worst move in the world, and has a definite upside. These seem to be the type of moves that KW typically makes, maybe not THESE specific moves, but it's his style. Not the big signing of CC or Dempster. Castillo's a better fit for this club than Getz in 09, and Casey Blake is a solid, .800 OPS 3B. Maybe Nomar wouldn't be a better "supersub" than Uribe, but he can play every position on the infield...not unlike Ozuna.

The .805 OPS thing would be true, if he played CF, 2B, SS or catcher. But a corner infielder or outfielder, he's not quite as rare as you are making him out to be...I agree, unless KW got something good (another team assuming he could/would also have a bounceback year at a corner OF spot or 1B/DH and out of the limelight/pressure of Chicago), it wouldn't make sense to move him, just because he had one bad season. Any more than it would make sense to "banish/exile" Vazquez to the National League because 95% of Sox fans strongly dislike him right now.

I think it would only happen if he publicly (moreso than he has done up til now) expressed his displeasure and desire to play on a contending and not rebuilding team...just because his teammates supposedly wanted to jump him or beat him up doesn't mean he'll be traded (anymore than KW could trade OC in the middle of the season, or Ozzie could bench him), but I think it's going to get some serious consideration, simply because of his age and the fact that his skills are slowly beginning to decline a little bit each year.

ZONE Rating and Total Chances Per Inning (Carlos "The Franchise 2" Gomez first in both categories) TC/IP 1. Carlos Gomez, .356 2. Aaron Rowand, .331 3. BJ Upton, .321 4. Curtis Granderson, .316 5. Adam Jones, .311 6. Carlos Beltran, .305 7. Michael Bourne Identity, .302 Near Last, BA, .228 (I know, I know, he usually comes in for the late innings, where the relievers dominate and there aren't so many fly balls, and our pitching staff was above average, so fewer chances) Other interesting names to keep an eye on...(not qualified) Ichiro Suzuki .332 Marlon Byrd, Rangers, .360 (bad Texas pitching or great defender?) Carlos Gonzalez, A's, .345 (lots of chances will all those terrible pitchers the 2nd half) Cody Ross, .301 Corey Patterson, .310 Rajai Davis, .323 ZONE RATING (just listed players we might realistically have ANY interest in) 2. Melky Cabrera 5. Corey Patterson 9. Mike Cameron 10. Chris B. Young 11. Rowand 12. Hunter 14. Taveras 16. Lastings Milledge 17. McLouth 18. Bourn 19. CoCo Crispies To summarize, the best speed/defensive players we should THINK about getting are: Ichiro Corey Patterson (no go on that one) Mike Cameron (but he's like BA offensively now, and aging) Michael Bourn (anemic OPS) Melky Cabrera (most interesting name so far, in terms of realistically getting him and not giving up something huge) Taveras (anemic OPS) CoCo Crisp Cabrera and Crisp are good possibilies... Ichiro for Swisher, Getz, Fields and Poreda (then we go out and find someone in the 2nd or 3rd round with OC's compensation pick/s and give them first round money to replace Poreda, sort of what we did with Reed, Sweeney and Danks)??? If we took on Ichiro's contract, we would definitely have to move Konerko or Dye. But I wouldn't mind an outfield of Quentin, Ichiro and Melky Cabrera. Pretty good, in fact.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 05:30 AM) How sad is it that? We're actually looking foward to a player hitting .240. I know his OBP is sky high, but now I see why. I hate his approach at the plate, and I never did understand why people kept penciling him in for the first base gig. Even if he put up his Oakland OPS numbers, he wouldn't be good enough for first. People railed on Konerko's .842 OPS in 2007 yet Swisher's was .835. People were correct on USCF helping his numbers because he f***ing sucked on the road this year. Logic says to trade Konerko. Thome's our only LH power bat that we can count on for next year (no, I'm not including Swisher or AJ). Dye makes less than Konerko, but he's older. Both are within 1-2 years of being full-time DH's, I think. Dye's contract is over after 09, Konerko's after 2010... When it comes down to it, it's easier to go and out find/buy/trade for Paulie's numbers at 1B than replacing Jermaine's numbers (if he puts up a comparable, injury-free year) in RF. Konerko and Dye are both very popular players, but we've traded Lee, Ventura, Durham...and let players like Thomas and Valentin walk. Crede too, in all likelihood. I guess you'd have to say that trading either one would lead to a mixed reaction from fans...seeing the logic behind the move, but there's such a strong connection between Sox fans and Konerko/Buehrle because of 2005 and because they've been around the longest, by far. Konerko's last month and his power display in the playoffs should answer any questions about his knee/hand/obligue...as well as the lingering rumors about a degenerative hip condition, losing weight or only possessing warning track power and a slow bat. I think his bat speed is fine...it was just a matter of him feeling healthy and 100% again. I'm not one to stick Ross Gload or Scott Hatteberg or Olmedo Saenz and say that we'll have equal results as a team (by investing the money elsewhere)...but I do think we're pretty solid up the middle with Ramirez and AJ...we just need to sort out 2B/SS and find a better CFer with range, a good arm, speed and the ability to make contact on a regular basis.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 04:33 AM) Swisher didn't fit on this team the day we traded for him...Not one of Kenny's smarter moves - seeming made out of fustration and desperation. Swisher's fine, as a corner outfielder, DH or 1B. He's not 1) a CFer or 2) a leadoff hitter. Yes, there was some desperation, because KW didn't want to go through another year of Jerry Owens in CF. Rowand, Fukudome, Hunter...all the big names (thankfully) got away, for various reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to get the Cubs to buy out a large part of Fukodome's contract and rehabilitated him on the South Side. Stranger things have happened. It would be hard for them to send him to Iowa making that kind of money. He can't really go back to Japan as a "failure," and the player's union won't let him tear up or escape from his contract I don't think. Retirement at age 31. A very difficult situation for the Cubs, and one that I'm sure they will enjoy discussing all offseason long. Quite a change from the day he announced he would rather inhabit RF in storied/hallowed Wrigley Field and be the first Japanese player there instead of taking $2 million more (I think) from the Sox. He should have talked to Tadahito and Shingo first.

Because Ozzie loves his veteran players...like Erstad and Mackowiak and Griffey and Thome. He likes young players with lots of ability, but not Anderson/Tracey/Rauch/Fields/Owens/Andy Gonzalez, lol.

I'm not saying that I like the move at all, and Pierre definitely is Johnny Damon-esque in terms of his arm, but I also don't see KW going out and bidding on many players either, like he thought about the last couple of offseasons. You look at Rowand, Pierre, Torii Hunter, Fukudome, Mathews, Jr., Dave Roberts...all of those guys turned out to be so-so acquisitions at best for their teams, AT BEST. Andruw Jones, maybe the worst signing of all. But the Dodgers actually had the farm system to support so many mistakes with veterans like Pierre, Nomar, Kent, Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt. I mean, if the White Sox/KW made one mistake ala Cory Snyder, he would be torn apart by the fans at Sox Fest.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 03:42 AM) If the Pirates trade away Nate McClouth they truly are the worse franchise in the majors. He is still cheap and was a very productive player this season, I guess one could argue to sell high but if I was running the franchise he would definitely be on the keeper board. Not to mention they already traded Bay...they have to build around SOMEONE, at some point. Or they might as well just roll up their franchise in the middle of the night.

Don't think we have the talent to get either McLouth (that the Pirates would desire) or Cano...let alone both of them. Nobody is interested in MacDougal, unless we just release him outright. We don't need to overpay for veteran loogies and we certainly don't want Snell on our team? Was this person listening/watching when he faced the Sox? Even the Pirates' announcers, usually mild-mannered, were getting really agitated/irritated with him.

Dodgers trade Juan Pierre to the White Sox for Josh Fields, and, in a Thome-like contract move to get him off their team so the youngsters can play, subsidize about 60-65% of his $45 million contract (3 years remaining on the deal). Pierre, familiar with Ozzie from their days in FLA, becomes the White Sox CFer about 5 years too late. The White Sox also sign Nomar Garciaparra to replace Uribe as their supersub and Casey Blake as their new 3B. Brad Penny undergoes a thorough mental/psychological and physical (Dr. James Andrews) evaluation and is cleared to become Don Cooper's latest project with a one year, incentive-based deal with a Mutual Option for 2010 or buy out. Luis Castillo is reunited with Juan Pierre at the head of the line-up, once again, 5 years too late...with the Mets paying $4 million of his $6.25 million contract and Boone Logan/Adam Russell sent to improve the Mets porous' bullpen. Ozzie is still a happy camper to have the veterans around him that he trusts. Brian Anderson, not so happy.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:35 PM) My targets would include the following, in no order: Rafael Furcal Orlando Hudson Adrian Beltre Brian Roberts Rocco Baldelli/Carl Crawford C.C. Sabathia Garrett Atkins J.J. Hardy Robinson Cano Derek Lowe Forget Sabathia and Crawford, way too expensive (in trade or contract). I'll add CoCo Crisp, Casey Blake, Chad Bradford (no runs given up in 17 post-season appearances and a former Sox farmhand) and Melky Cabrera to the list. Kevin Kouzmanoff and Melvin Mora for 3B. I don't think we can afford Derek Lowe and Javier Vazquez on the same team...with our existing payroll.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:26 PM) I don't know if he'll find a starting spot, but how about Pudge Rodriguez? I just don't think we can afford I-Rod (even as a back-up) and Uribe...maybe. I guess it depends on how much I-Rod overestimates his ability to be a starter still. His career is ending like Roberto Alomar's, very quietly. I'm jealous of the Twins, Redmond is nearly the perfect one up there.

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:24 PM) Yeah I know, what was KW thinking when he traded Lee for Pods. lol, it's the same idea. Also I would try to sign Punto to replace Uribe. Essentially Ordonez/Valentin/Carlos Lee The thing that people forget is that our payroll was so low that year, compared to what it has become since 06.