caulfield12

Sorry, I can never tell which ones are legitimate trade proposals around here. Oops.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 09:21 AM) What about Vasquez,Thome and Contreras for Lincecum and Rowand? We would get a pitcher who has the potential to be a CY young contender for the next 10 years. Rowand would look better on the basepaths than someone like JD. I'm not sure what the Giants needs are. But, Thome is the Slugger they are lacking since Bonds , Vasquez would be a better fit for the NL and Contreras is the real wild card here. our team can look like this Hudson 2b Ramirez SS CQ LF Dye DH Swisher RF Konerko 1b AJ C Rowand CF Fields 3b Lincecum Buehrle Danks Floyd Who Cares I applaud your enthusiam, young man. Thome's too old to play 1B everyday, an injury waiting to happen, and the Giants are in the process of getting much younger, not older. Lincecum and Cain are pretty much untouchables. Contreras won't pitch again before next August, and maybe never again. Retirement is a possibility. You can't trade a player that's injured. They've already sunk too much money into Zito, they would have no interest adding Javy. Vazquez is the type of pitcher a contending team with a $100 million plus payroll can afford to add to the roster as the 4th/5th starter, as long as he doesn't have to start a game in the post-season.

That Halladay/Rios deal might be the worst trade in the history of not only the Blue Jays, but the entire American League East. While they're at it, they might as well give us Snider and Vernon Wells for Getz, Richard, Jose Martinez and Juan Silverio.

Brad Penny Juan Pierre Luis Castillo Casey Blake You can argue about Pierre and Anderson, but I think taking a flier on Penny isn't the worst move in the world, and has a definite upside. These seem to be the type of moves that KW typically makes, maybe not THESE specific moves, but it's his style. Not the big signing of CC or Dempster. Castillo's a better fit for this club than Getz in 09, and Casey Blake is a solid, .800 OPS 3B. Maybe Nomar wouldn't be a better "supersub" than Uribe, but he can play every position on the infield...not unlike Ozuna.

The .805 OPS thing would be true, if he played CF, 2B, SS or catcher. But a corner infielder or outfielder, he's not quite as rare as you are making him out to be...I agree, unless KW got something good (another team assuming he could/would also have a bounceback year at a corner OF spot or 1B/DH and out of the limelight/pressure of Chicago), it wouldn't make sense to move him, just because he had one bad season. Any more than it would make sense to "banish/exile" Vazquez to the National League because 95% of Sox fans strongly dislike him right now.

I think it would only happen if he publicly (moreso than he has done up til now) expressed his displeasure and desire to play on a contending and not rebuilding team...just because his teammates supposedly wanted to jump him or beat him up doesn't mean he'll be traded (anymore than KW could trade OC in the middle of the season, or Ozzie could bench him), but I think it's going to get some serious consideration, simply because of his age and the fact that his skills are slowly beginning to decline a little bit each year.

ZONE Rating and Total Chances Per Inning (Carlos "The Franchise 2" Gomez first in both categories) TC/IP 1. Carlos Gomez, .356 2. Aaron Rowand, .331 3. BJ Upton, .321 4. Curtis Granderson, .316 5. Adam Jones, .311 6. Carlos Beltran, .305 7. Michael Bourne Identity, .302 Near Last, BA, .228 (I know, I know, he usually comes in for the late innings, where the relievers dominate and there aren't so many fly balls, and our pitching staff was above average, so fewer chances) Other interesting names to keep an eye on...(not qualified) Ichiro Suzuki .332 Marlon Byrd, Rangers, .360 (bad Texas pitching or great defender?) Carlos Gonzalez, A's, .345 (lots of chances will all those terrible pitchers the 2nd half) Cody Ross, .301 Corey Patterson, .310 Rajai Davis, .323 ZONE RATING (just listed players we might realistically have ANY interest in) 2. Melky Cabrera 5. Corey Patterson 9. Mike Cameron 10. Chris B. Young 11. Rowand 12. Hunter 14. Taveras 16. Lastings Milledge 17. McLouth 18. Bourn 19. CoCo Crispies To summarize, the best speed/defensive players we should THINK about getting are: Ichiro Corey Patterson (no go on that one) Mike Cameron (but he's like BA offensively now, and aging) Michael Bourn (anemic OPS) Melky Cabrera (most interesting name so far, in terms of realistically getting him and not giving up something huge) Taveras (anemic OPS) CoCo Crisp Cabrera and Crisp are good possibilies... Ichiro for Swisher, Getz, Fields and Poreda (then we go out and find someone in the 2nd or 3rd round with OC's compensation pick/s and give them first round money to replace Poreda, sort of what we did with Reed, Sweeney and Danks)??? If we took on Ichiro's contract, we would definitely have to move Konerko or Dye. But I wouldn't mind an outfield of Quentin, Ichiro and Melky Cabrera. Pretty good, in fact.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 05:30 AM) How sad is it that? We're actually looking foward to a player hitting .240. I know his OBP is sky high, but now I see why. I hate his approach at the plate, and I never did understand why people kept penciling him in for the first base gig. Even if he put up his Oakland OPS numbers, he wouldn't be good enough for first. People railed on Konerko's .842 OPS in 2007 yet Swisher's was .835. People were correct on USCF helping his numbers because he f***ing sucked on the road this year. Logic says to trade Konerko. Thome's our only LH power bat that we can count on for next year (no, I'm not including Swisher or AJ). Dye makes less than Konerko, but he's older. Both are within 1-2 years of being full-time DH's, I think. Dye's contract is over after 09, Konerko's after 2010... When it comes down to it, it's easier to go and out find/buy/trade for Paulie's numbers at 1B than replacing Jermaine's numbers (if he puts up a comparable, injury-free year) in RF. Konerko and Dye are both very popular players, but we've traded Lee, Ventura, Durham...and let players like Thomas and Valentin walk. Crede too, in all likelihood. I guess you'd have to say that trading either one would lead to a mixed reaction from fans...seeing the logic behind the move, but there's such a strong connection between Sox fans and Konerko/Buehrle because of 2005 and because they've been around the longest, by far. Konerko's last month and his power display in the playoffs should answer any questions about his knee/hand/obligue...as well as the lingering rumors about a degenerative hip condition, losing weight or only possessing warning track power and a slow bat. I think his bat speed is fine...it was just a matter of him feeling healthy and 100% again. I'm not one to stick Ross Gload or Scott Hatteberg or Olmedo Saenz and say that we'll have equal results as a team (by investing the money elsewhere)...but I do think we're pretty solid up the middle with Ramirez and AJ...we just need to sort out 2B/SS and find a better CFer with range, a good arm, speed and the ability to make contact on a regular basis.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 04:33 AM) Swisher didn't fit on this team the day we traded for him...Not one of Kenny's smarter moves - seeming made out of fustration and desperation. Swisher's fine, as a corner outfielder, DH or 1B. He's not 1) a CFer or 2) a leadoff hitter. Yes, there was some desperation, because KW didn't want to go through another year of Jerry Owens in CF. Rowand, Fukudome, Hunter...all the big names (thankfully) got away, for various reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to get the Cubs to buy out a large part of Fukodome's contract and rehabilitated him on the South Side. Stranger things have happened. It would be hard for them to send him to Iowa making that kind of money. He can't really go back to Japan as a "failure," and the player's union won't let him tear up or escape from his contract I don't think. Retirement at age 31. A very difficult situation for the Cubs, and one that I'm sure they will enjoy discussing all offseason long. Quite a change from the day he announced he would rather inhabit RF in storied/hallowed Wrigley Field and be the first Japanese player there instead of taking $2 million more (I think) from the Sox. He should have talked to Tadahito and Shingo first.

Because Ozzie loves his veteran players...like Erstad and Mackowiak and Griffey and Thome. He likes young players with lots of ability, but not Anderson/Tracey/Rauch/Fields/Owens/Andy Gonzalez, lol.

I'm not saying that I like the move at all, and Pierre definitely is Johnny Damon-esque in terms of his arm, but I also don't see KW going out and bidding on many players either, like he thought about the last couple of offseasons. You look at Rowand, Pierre, Torii Hunter, Fukudome, Mathews, Jr., Dave Roberts...all of those guys turned out to be so-so acquisitions at best for their teams, AT BEST. Andruw Jones, maybe the worst signing of all. But the Dodgers actually had the farm system to support so many mistakes with veterans like Pierre, Nomar, Kent, Andruw Jones and Jason Schmidt. I mean, if the White Sox/KW made one mistake ala Cory Snyder, he would be torn apart by the fans at Sox Fest.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 03:42 AM) If the Pirates trade away Nate McClouth they truly are the worse franchise in the majors. He is still cheap and was a very productive player this season, I guess one could argue to sell high but if I was running the franchise he would definitely be on the keeper board. Not to mention they already traded Bay...they have to build around SOMEONE, at some point. Or they might as well just roll up their franchise in the middle of the night.

Don't think we have the talent to get either McLouth (that the Pirates would desire) or Cano...let alone both of them. Nobody is interested in MacDougal, unless we just release him outright. We don't need to overpay for veteran loogies and we certainly don't want Snell on our team? Was this person listening/watching when he faced the Sox? Even the Pirates' announcers, usually mild-mannered, were getting really agitated/irritated with him.

Dodgers trade Juan Pierre to the White Sox for Josh Fields, and, in a Thome-like contract move to get him off their team so the youngsters can play, subsidize about 60-65% of his $45 million contract (3 years remaining on the deal). Pierre, familiar with Ozzie from their days in FLA, becomes the White Sox CFer about 5 years too late. The White Sox also sign Nomar Garciaparra to replace Uribe as their supersub and Casey Blake as their new 3B. Brad Penny undergoes a thorough mental/psychological and physical (Dr. James Andrews) evaluation and is cleared to become Don Cooper's latest project with a one year, incentive-based deal with a Mutual Option for 2010 or buy out. Luis Castillo is reunited with Juan Pierre at the head of the line-up, once again, 5 years too late...with the Mets paying $4 million of his $6.25 million contract and Boone Logan/Adam Russell sent to improve the Mets porous' bullpen. Ozzie is still a happy camper to have the veterans around him that he trusts. Brian Anderson, not so happy.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:35 PM) My targets would include the following, in no order: Rafael Furcal Orlando Hudson Adrian Beltre Brian Roberts Rocco Baldelli/Carl Crawford C.C. Sabathia Garrett Atkins J.J. Hardy Robinson Cano Derek Lowe Forget Sabathia and Crawford, way too expensive (in trade or contract). I'll add CoCo Crisp, Casey Blake, Chad Bradford (no runs given up in 17 post-season appearances and a former Sox farmhand) and Melky Cabrera to the list. Kevin Kouzmanoff and Melvin Mora for 3B. I don't think we can afford Derek Lowe and Javier Vazquez on the same team...with our existing payroll.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:26 PM) I don't know if he'll find a starting spot, but how about Pudge Rodriguez? I just don't think we can afford I-Rod (even as a back-up) and Uribe...maybe. I guess it depends on how much I-Rod overestimates his ability to be a starter still. His career is ending like Roberto Alomar's, very quietly. I'm jealous of the Twins, Redmond is nearly the perfect one up there.

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:24 PM) Yeah I know, what was KW thinking when he traded Lee for Pods. lol, it's the same idea. Also I would try to sign Punto to replace Uribe. Essentially Ordonez/Valentin/Carlos Lee The thing that people forget is that our payroll was so low that year, compared to what it has become since 06.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:22 PM) I'm torn on how to feel right now. I have been at the Cell the last 4 games, and it has been exhausting. There is a part of me that will call this season a failure, as any season without a title is a failure, but big picture, it was a very productive year that hopefully is the opening of a new "window" of White Sox Baseball. This is also my favorite time of year on the board, the dog days of winter with new rumors coming out daily, and terrible trade proposals by the hour. Toby Hall, Boone Logan, Horacio Ramiez, Mike MacDougal and Wasserman for a back-up catcher who can actually throw someone out and occasionally demonstrate some power (like Miguel Olivo/John Buck/Henry Blanco).

It makes sense only from a Lee/Pods sense, depending on KW does with the money saved. If it was Figgins and reliable 5th starter=Konerko, then maybe. Or solidifying 2B, 3B and CF. Like the Garza/Bartlett for Delmon Young deal...same idea.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:08 PM) I guess it depends on your perspective and expectations. I fully expected this team to be very competetive in this division, and I thought the division would be much better overall. So I don't see winning the AL Central as some odds defying accomplishment. I mean this was a team with a $120 M payroll and a veteran core of players. I would hope they'd be able to compete in this sad sack AL Central. It was a good season. They won the division, but it was the 2nd worst division in baseball. They were also regularly outplayed by other good teams and we could make an argument that there were two other AL teams that were better than the White Sox who didn't make the playoffs (Toronto and the Yanks). It was nice to find some young players but this team is still very old and getting older. I'm not really seeing how it's going to get better next season. Apparently you didn't notice last season, because there were few reasons to be optimistic heading into this season? Jerry Owens? Andy Gonzalez? Fields? Wasserman? We won't be favored to win the division going into next season, probably 2nd or 3rd (unless we pull off something crazy like getting A-Rod and Ichiro simultaneously)...Cleveland, if they get a couple of more pitchers and shore up their bullpen, should be strong all season long, especially if Sabathia miraculously ended up there again (odds of that are approximately 2-3% with Dolan). I would prefer to see the positives rather than dwell on the negatives. It was a very enjoyable season...the glass is half full.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 07:06 PM) Great points. This team made some huge strides this season. After 2007 I was one of those people who thought there was no choice but to rebuild. Thankfully Kenny made some great moves to get this thing back on track. His only bad move was Swisher, but in hindsight he looks smart so far by selling high on Gio and DLS. I just wish he'd done it for a better player, but oh well. The other moves have more than made up for that one bad deal, and I'm hopeful that Swisher still brings us a solid player over the offseason. One last thing: please Kenny, for the love of God, make Thome put down a f***ing bunt every once in a while when he's being given almost the entire left side of the infield. All he has to do is show he can get the damn thing down and if he does it a few times then teams will reconsider the shift. He could raise his batting average 30 points by just doing that. It's not like there are no home run hitters behind him. If the Sox don't care about taking the free baserunner and actually prefer the typical Thome groundout into the shift or strikeout, then please get him the f*** off this team. Please. I can't take this s*** anymore. Dear Ozzie: 1) Please work with the outfielders on throwing to the cutoff men properly. Let's use some better judgment about when to thrown home and when to eat the ball. 2) BA, if you're around, please learn to tighten up your swing and hit to the opposite field or go up the middle instead of that long/looping Borchard/Crede/Fields swing. Also, knowing how to bunt wouldn't be such a bad idea, either. 3) Uribe, if you are back, that blonde soul patch is ridiculous. AJ, please let your hair go back to a normal color. You look like a coked out Billy Idol wanna be from "Less than Zero." Or one of the vampire gang from "The Lost Boys." ENOUGH! 4) Gavin and Jenks and all relievers. Learn from Buehrle and Danks how to hold runners on...don't let the opposition run wild. It's demoralizing. 5) Clayton Richard, you were the Michigan QB, you should be able to pick up a ball and throw it to first base routinely or throw to first base on pick-offs. Please spend your off-season working specifically on this area. 2)

I would love to see the Angels knock off the Red Sox, to see the match-up of the two most balanced teams in baseball and two managers completely familiar with each other strategically...either way, it will be fun. I will be rooting hard for the Rays no matter who they are playing. In the NL, would like to see the Dodgers, just for the sheer symmetry of Ramirez facing Bay and the Boston fans again...to see their reaction...and to see Torre bring a team not named the Yankees into Boston with very little or no pressure to win the World Series against the Red Sox. Lots of interesting possible scenarios.

I think it's all because of 2005. I wasn't upset, Upton's just a very talented player, and he showed why the last two games. This year, the palpable relief wasn't making the playoffs, it was somehow, improbably, beating the Twins in the fashion that they did when logic and past history argued against it. When AJ's ball was caught by Gross at the top of the fence, I had the feeling it was going to be a long day. That's the kind of ball that goes out June through August, pretty easily...of course, the wind was blowing in a little as well. I wanted to mention how good a job Clayton Richard did the two times he was asked to keep the White Sox within striking distance. I'm leaving this season having a positive feeling about Ken Griffey, Jr., wouldn't have imagined that a month ago. Props to Dewayne Wise for rising up from obscurity to become almost a "folk hero" over the final five weeks. Danks has become a star...our equivalent of Cliff Lee. Gavin Floyd is a very good 3rd starter, and matches up with anyone in our division. Alexei and Quentin are amazing and it's easy to get excited about following their careers the next half-decade. At no point in this series did I feel that I could make an argument with myself that we were the better team. I think they even out-homered us this series, or it was very close to even. I think we're about 3-4 correct acquisitions away from being a 95+ win team again...of course, the wrong moves, a couple of key injuries and we're back to .500 like the Indians. With all the money to Jenks (arbitration), Dotel, Thornton and Linebrink, I don't think KW will spend much money in this area. I think 90% of the concentration and focus will be turned toward improving the speed/defense/contact/patience/fundamentals of our ballclub at 3B, 2B and CF. That and adding a "cheap" FA (not named LIvan Hernandez) as insurance for Richard/Broadway/Carrasco/Ramirez/Poreda. Maybe Sisco will amaze everyone and have a breakthrough in ST! Or MacDougal...Logan, I guess he's about done with the Sox as I'm concerned.

Griffey won't be around. The bigger question is whether or not Brian Anderson and Fields will be, along with Swisher and Vazquez.

Thought I would put this back on the first page...I'm sure those who feel inclined (maybe not tonight...give it a day or two) will chime in with their thoughts as KW approaches the off-season with the goal of somehow getting us back into the playoffs next year without blowing the budget or giving away Aaron Poreda.