caulfield12

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 05:41 AM) Yet Uribe has been producing at 3rd base better than Crede was. Oh and he had a clutch hit last night. Crede has had a procedure done on his back, came back, got worse, and now cant play. Explain to me how thats anything like the Maggs situation? 2008 100% Uribe: .285 .333 .442 70-100% Crede: .248 .314 .460 Well, about $10 million dollars in salary...in all seriousness, the only similarity is that the White Sox can't afford to go into 2009 with the uncertainty of Crede's back situation again. They need to go with Fields or find another option through trade or Free Agency. With Ordonez's situation, it was simply a matter of the numbers not making sense for the White Sox to pay superstar money to a non-superstar. They hid behind the injury excuse, and rightly so, in order to appease the fans and make them feel they at least were considering Magglio, but that decision was made as soon as Ordonez signed a long-term deal with the final year ballooning up to $14.5 million. NO way they could give him a long-term deal, even without any injuries, with that as the baseline/bottom average salary per year, for 3-5 years. It would have been insane IMO, despite the way Magglio has recovered and played in DET. Then again, maybe a healthy Ordonez is more valuable than a $11.5 million Vazquez!!! Except we're paying Dye much less, over a short-term, and he's been just as, if not more, productive. You could argue the merits. But we saved a ton of money in 05 and 06 on JD, vis a via Magglio. Crede would probably like to come to Chicago, at least as a fallback position. Even if it's just a one year deal based almost entirely on incentives. A lot depends on the health exams of the other teams and the prognosis if he gets a guaranteed contract for more than one year or not. It's too risky for the White Sox to chance it...and...as noted, Uribe has actually been about as productive offensively as the 70-80% Crede.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008...tory?id=3627822 ESPN Game Story

Which is another reason I think KW keeps bringing in new blood...Ozzie's style works, to a point...but you couldn't keep the same veteran team together with him for 5 years in a row, now that this is possible in the age of free agency anyway. We have, what, 6 players only left from 2005? Konerko, Dye, Uribe, AJ, Buehrle, Jenks? That's a huge roster turnover in 3 seasons. But those are the "core" players who nothing Ozzie does will faze them at all. They're also the players KW trusts most and will go to (along with Thome and now Griffey) if there's the possibility of adding another player to improve the team. I think KW learned with Royce Clayton and Lofton about what the effect of bringing in a veteran who might be susceptible to "attitude" problems, and how that affected other players like Lee and Ordonez, making them a bit more selfish or me first, and Manuel tolerated it and never called the players out like Guillen has consistently done from Day 1, beginning with Thomas (just like Manuel did, ironically enough). Ordonez also was coming off a hernia or "sports hernia" at the time I think, correct? Another problem was that the final years of Ordonez's contract were so backloaded, I think he made $14.5 million in 2004, and there was no way KW was going to give him a long-term deal that averaged that amount....nor an easy way for Ordonez, his agent or the player's union to accept less. Things worked out fine for both sides, I think. I always had concerns about Ordonez adding more weight and being more of a liability in RF as he aged...he's still "serviceable" but he might be a season or two from full-time DH duty IMO. Yep...the whole Sean Tracey incident, the back and forth with Mariotti over it in the newspapers...Garland not hitting a batter he was told to hit. I also think that Jenks just started to fall apart physically and our offense went dead at about the same time, in early August. Those games we lost to "no name" Red Sox pitchers stand out now in my memory...despite great pitching from our starters, even Javy!

I just think it's a matter of playing "winning" baseball, and finding complementary players that fit in and approach the game in the correct manner...that's why I am personally disposed to like someone like Casey Blake or even Nick Punto, despite his egregious slides into first base. Ozuna had some of these characteristics as well...players that just don't go up there hacking away but approach every at-bat with intention and purpose in mind. We had Rowand...Erstad was like this as well, but he was well past his prime (due to injuries) when we got him...it's not necessarily adding a bunch of "rabbits" (Ozzie's term) but finding players that do what they're supposed to do, depending on the situation. Professionals, I guess you'd call them. The problem is we use the label "grinder" so often, but we need "faster/younger/grinder" players to mix in and around the veteran core to continue to get the best of the veterans and keep the team from becoming stagnant. Despite my reservations, I think Cabrera is a winning ballplayer, does many little things well, and is usually on playoff-caliber teams. I don't think that's an accident, any more than Vazquez's winning percentage on losing versus playoff-seeking teams. When you look at it, we did our first major restructuring when we shed Valentin, Ordonez and Carlos Lee before 05...I don't see a similar move this offseason (why fix what's not completely broken), but I do see a lot tinkering, like before the 06 season. I think KW has actually regretted some of those moves, as they made the team better on paper but something happened to the chemistry or synergy or whatever you want to call it from the 05 team that couldn't be recaptured. Many blamed the loss of Everett and Rowand, I think the reality is that the pitchers just got worn down and team wasn't quite as hungry as they were the previous season.

Couch in the Sun-Times article tonight said the same thing, about Danks morphing into a star over these last 13 days. We'll see if Gavin has some of the same pixie dust in his arsenal. Officially, Buehrle, because of his WS/playoff wins, veteran/team spokesman status and contract, will be the ace of the staff...but Danks is close, if he hasn't already surpassed Mark. I guess it doesn't matter who's your "official" ace, as Contreras moved in and out of that role in 05/06 and Mark never changed a bit or complained. Everyone could see he was the best pitcher in baseball at that time and deserved to start each playoff series.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 5, 2008 -> 09:47 PM) 34...THEY DO NOT FINISH THINGS IN OUR HOUSE. You forgot, "the fundamentals of our economy are strong/sound."

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aoh0...o&type=lgns Good game story from Yahoo Sports National sports writer Henson....lots of quotes. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...ame3/index.html CNNSI story, more of a focus on Roger Bossard, stolen bases and "small ball"

"I'm just out there having fun," Wise said. "That's the only way to approach it. Once A.J. got things going [in the third], that was the big hit." Not the last one, however. The Sox added to their lead in the sixth on a two-out single by Juan Uribe. "That made me a lot happy," Uribe said. "I struck out [in his previous at-bat], so I said, 'C'mon, Uribe.' Like I say [last week in Minnesota], I tell the team, 'Get on my back.'" After Upton's two-run homer, Guillen went to his bullpen with Carlos Pena on first base in the seventh and all-everything rookie Evan Longoria representing the tying run. Octavio Dotel recorded his biggest out of the year, sitting down the phenom on a called third strike. "I didn't want to give anything good to that guy," Dotel said. "Everyone in the league knows how good he is. I really don't want to face that guy that much, but that's my job." Job well done. The same could be said for Matt Thornton and Bobby Jenks, who handcuffed the Rays over the final two innings to secure the victory and force Game 4 today. "It's been amazing to see a team back itself into a corner and win or go home," Thornton said. "We keep coming. We just seem to have a group of veterans that won't let the situation overwhelm them." So they will be in a very familiar situation today, bags packed to go back to St. Petersburg, Fla., or back home. Destination unknown. "Maybe we don't like our wives and don't want to go home," Pierzynski joked. "Just kidding. I love you, honey." from www.suntimes.com/sports

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,5813216.story Phil Rogers article on this subject: mentions Figgins and Hudson, idea that the leading candidate for 5th starter is definitely Clayton Richard http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=240489 Very worthwhile article on KW, his philosophy and thinking about current team and future

Well, I think everyone would agree it would have been very difficult for the White Sox to win this year (or next) with Ryan Sweeney starting in RF. His fundamentals are nearly perfect in terms of defense and throwing...maybe I've have some bias in Jermaine's case because he is (along with Thome) such a genuine "good guy" both on the off the field, and I fell in love with the way he and Vladimir Guerrero played when I saw both of them all the time playing for Albany and Macon way back in 1994. In fact, in the SAL All-Star game, Guerrero took a ball off the fence and threw a laser in the air from RF that got the runner coming into 3rd standing up...he had no clue what had just happened, or that it was possible to happen. PS Why couldn't Torii Hunter play against us in CF (like he has done tonight for the Angels against BOS tonight) this way when he was with the Twins?

It would be better to face Edwin Jackson, unfortunately. Pitchers with 95+ heaters usually don't bother us, it's the offspeed/junk/control pitchers that have traditionally given us fits. At least he doesn't have a 6+ ERA, then you know the White Sox would have absolutely no chance.

It would be pretty sweet to be the only game in town (in all of MLB) Monday, Tuesday and then tomorrow again...prime time game. The blackout effect also looks more imposing and "scary" at night.

Ordonez came to the majors too late to do much more than get 2,000 hits in his career. 2) He's not a true home run hitter, and the players with the homers get the most attention from voters (if the voters speculate those are legit #'s) 3) He's an average (at best) outfielder...certainly not Roberto Clemente or Vladimir Guerrero. Actually, I think Carlos Lee will end up with higher HR and RBI numbers when both their careers are over...but neither will get even 10% of the votes to gain HOF entrance. There's just a difference between very good/almost great and the Hall of Fame.

1) Dye's going into the final year of his contract in 09...so he's worth less to another team 2) He's 35 years old 3) Most scouts and GM's consider his numbers inflated by playing at US Cellular...for instance, this year he had 62 RBI's at home, versus 34 on the road. (Although actually he's had almost the same number of homers on road as at home, but more RBI's in Chicago). 4) You'd have to move Quentin from LF to RF, where he's subpar defensively and lacks Dye's arm strength 5) There's concern he can't keep having years like this one statistically...that eventually his bat speed will slow down 6) You're going to be very hard-pressed to find another player who can lead the American League in homers from RF from 2005-2008...we need to tailor our team to our ballpark, and that's why we're 20+ games over .500 at US Cell, despite the problems it causes on the road and on turf Rowand's best season with the White Sox wasn't 2005...in fact, at the end of the season, he was a walking DP machine. If my memory is correct, 2004 was, when he had loads of doubles and had much better overall numbers than 05. He got a lot of attention because of how he played defensively in NY in 2003 and 2005, but 2005 was a "meh" season for him offensively and in the post-season. I never said Swisher's season wasn't disappointing...just that he has equal or more value (vis a vis Dye) to another team because of his youth and "predictable/locked in" contract status for the immediate future. I just don't think KW would keep Swisher and trade Dye...even though he's not sentimental about parting with Sox players, Dye is one of his favorites. And he came to play for the Sox in 05 for a bargain contract coming off an injury. So I think there's a lot of reciprocal respect, whereas Swisher has made no friends by pouting so much on the bench the final two weeks. Fortunately for the Sox, it's hard to pout on the bench during the playoffs without looking like an A-S.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 5, 2008 -> 07:07 PM) So essentially you are saying that you have to get hits and walks to score runs and that if you don't you don't score runs. I think he meant "string," unless he's referring to the double helix and RNA/DNA strands. It has seemed like every ball we've hit this series, we've never once gone from 1st to 3rd or from 2nd to home. Maybe it happened once. Part of this is a function of the ball getting to the outfielders so quickly on turf...the other reason that we're really slow, except for Cabrera, Wise, Ramirez and Uribe (so-so).

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 5, 2008 -> 07:03 PM) That was his only quality start against us in 3 starts this year. I nthe game at the Cell he gave up 4 ER in 6.1 IP. His other win was 5 2/3 and 3 ER, so as close as you can come to a QS. By the way, it sure would be nice to bring back Bradford and have him in our pen again. Amazing that it was 8 years ago he was a surprise roster addition against the Mariners in the playoffs. Actually, I can't believe he's been in the playoffs 7 times already with five different teams. Some guys can't ever get there, he can't seem to miss them.

QUOTE (Brian @ Oct 5, 2008 -> 06:57 PM) He shut us out in TB, as we know, but didn't we knock him around pretty well at home that Sunday afternoon? Beat us at home twice, he threw a 3-hit shutout earlier in the season. On August 24th, he took the loss, giving up 4 ER and 9 hits in 6 1/3 IP in a game that we ended up winning 6-5. So we know that we can beat him, especially in Comiskey. And our most recent memory against him is a positive one.

Did anyone see that play Dye made in the first? Whether it's the post-season, or he's just feeling better physically...we're seeing Dye get to some balls he ordinarily wouldn't reach. We're also seeing Dotel and Jenks find another 2-3 MPH on our their fastballs, which is encouraging, especially with Dotel. You just wonder why he couldn't pitch with that sense of urgency all season long, like he did with Longoria. Maybe his arm IS bouncing back final after all the injuries and surgery...I know some here are skeptical of Dotel and compare him to a train wreck or Ebola, but there's no doubting he can get a strikeout when he's "on." Matt Thornton continues to be a pitcher that broadcasters paying attention to him for the first time are saying "wow" about. How the Mariners could give up on Matt, and the Phillies with Floyd, is beyond me. Nice to see that as Danks has matured, he's also found an extra 2-3 MPH on his fastball. The first time I saw him in a ST game on WGN, I thought he was going to struggle to throw 90 MPH. This was something I waited for with Garland...but it never really happened. I guess with Garland, throwing the sinking fastball actually has a detrimental affect and gets it up in the zone instead of creating more natural movement.

Cashman isn't that stupid. Maybe someone was joking around with a name like that, he should be either pitching in Queens or working for the porn company in the Valley.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp...=4&sort=avg Wonder if they'll think about playing Anderson...? I doubt it. Well, you can't say enough about how big Dwayne Wise and Griffey have been in the final weeks, in different ways. Wise did something Sox hitters almost never do...which is take a pitch where it's thrown and go with it. Something else...give all the credit to Guillen for sticking with Wise and having faith in him. It has been paid off in spades. Great that Gavin gets a start in the playoffs, don't know how the six days off will affect him. I'm not ready to believe we can win a game in that dome, but it would be very exciting to give Buehrle a second chance with all the pressure in the world on the Rays not to choke.

Well, all things considered, we're pretty fortunate to be only down 1-0. Garza seems like he's throwing well, but that 96 MPH four seam fastball is pretty straight...it's his slider/cutter that causes so many problems. Still, very glad to see both Bartlett and Garza out of Minnesota.

fathom, are you going to the game? i'm embarassed to admit this, but the last White Sox game i saw was one started in April/May by Jon Rauch against the Tigers and it was SO FREEZING COLD in the upper deck...almost as hot as the Tiger bats when they saw his fastball slowly descending towards the plate. That was a wild one, think it ended something like 10-8.

I get that we would be selling "low," but how many times has KW gone out of traded one of our best players (on the major league roster) in the prime of their career, down year or not? Aaron Rowand? Well, 2005 wasn't his best year, not even close. Garcia was coming off a so-so year and was injury-plagued and had diminished velocity when we dealt him for Gavin. He very rarely makes trades with our core players (from the starting line-up)...with the exception of Carlos Lee, and that was mostly about payroll, but also about changing the "me first" attitude of the team offensively, along with letting Magglio go (and we all agree, coming off hernias and Swiss doctors and the mystery that it would have been insane to sign him for the money and length of contract the Tigers did). Recently, the only other players that come to mind are probably McCarthy and Chris Young, although there were question marks if they were ready to be regular contributors for the Sox in the following seasons...

Logan, I could understand why he might want to escape, but that's not exactly the best way to get out of Ozzie's doghouse, by further separating yourself from the rest of your teammates. MacDougal was never really a part of this year's team...but he is under contract for next year, unfortunately. Broadway, I don't really get. If KW doesn't make a move (unlikely), he would go into ST behind Clayton Richard but probably in "second place" amongst all the minor leaguers for that 5th starter's spot...maybe even first, if the White Sox are determined to fill Logan's spot with Richard, feeling he just can't get through the second or third time facing the line-up with his particular assortment of pitches.

QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 5, 2008 -> 02:22 AM) If i were KW these would be the moves i make in the offseason. Trade PK to whom ever misses out on TEX(NY/LA) for prospects move Dye to First Base Pick up Thome's opition Sign Furcal and Blake in the offseason Trade Fields and prospects to the A's for Buck and one of Casilla, Devine or Street Try to buy low on Homer Bailey Resign Uribe for the bench S Furcal SS L Buck CF R Quentin RF L Thome DH R Dye 1B S Swisher LF R Blake 3B L AJP C R Ramirez 2B Maybe if we agree to pay the injury-plagued Eric Chavez $23 million the next two seasons will BB part with Buck AND Street. By the way, "During certain games throughout the season, GM Billy Beane must care for Eric's 2 dogs" is perhaps the most interesting contract clause in baseball. Would KW go for that? Does JR want dogs in the owner's box? Only time will tell. I think you might see Dye move to 1B, but I doubt it will happen with the White Sox in 2009. If he is to play first, the team needs to give him more advance warning than when he arrives at Spring Training on February 20th. He's still a pretty good athlete and a big target, but the speed of the game on the infield, reflexes, throwing the ball to the pitcher covering first, bunt rotations, there's a lot to learn for someone who's played RF his entire career. The thing is, I can't imagine Dye being any better than Thome would be at first, and probably worse. We can go after someone like Bailey, Hughes/Kennedy (NYY), Kershaw, etc. Doesn't mean any of those teams are close to ready to give up like the Phillies were with Gavin Floyd. To get Danks, we had to part with our best pitching prospect in McCarthy...