caulfield12

I wonder if KW is seriously considering bringing back Crede next year? We would have to pay him around $5 million again, or I suppose we could cut him like the Cubs did with Prior. It sucks to just lose an asset like that and get nothing at all in return, but it would also be foolhardy to bring him back, just to try to "showcase" him and trade him to the highest bidder. Then again, he could go out like Magglio or Frank Thomas and become a very productive player again...but back injuries are the trickiest for baseball players and golfers, since there's so much torque generated by a swing (see Thome, Jim or Sheffield, Gary).

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 10:14 PM) I agree. The players with real talent sit in AAA, while the hackers get the PT. It's ridiculous. Anderson and Sweeney should be playing every day on the ml team. My only reservation is whether Guillen develop them or ruin them. Ozzie jerked Anderson around last year and didn't give him a chance this year. Chris Young, the recipient of immense hype particularly after he left the Sox, hasn't set the world on fire in Arizona. He's been injured. I think Rogers has slightly changed his tact on the Garcia and McCarthy trades...he first criticized them saying the Sox got ripped and certainly they wouldn't help a ready-to-win team; then he said he was wrong; now he's saying well, they didn't address real needs...so we used Mccarthy and Gacia to bring in pitchers instead of CF, SS etc. It's BS. I don't know how everyone can just magically assume Brian Anderson was ready to be a regular player with that swing of his. Heck, you can make the same argument about Fields, but he's at least making some productive outs and picking up RBI's at a nice pace...still you can't strike out 1/2.5 PA. I guess if he put another hit or two together tonight (two balls barely foul, one a would be homer), I'd feel better. The other problem is Fields isn't hitting to the opposite side either. I don't mind Gonzalez playing, I would love to see some new blood replace Cintron and maybe Ozuna if he's not healthy again. The more questions we answer with Owens, Sweeney, Anderson, Fields, the better off we'll be in terms of finding a direction in the offseason. Richar should get a long look as well as he assumes the Willie Harris "heir apparent" label, and Getz could get a few AB's as well down the stretch, especially if Iguchi were to be traded.

And Farmer's delivering a dissertation on why the manta rays should not be compromised by being housed in a tank at the Trop. Hilarious stuff, he sounds like Pamela Anderson.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 07:32 PM) OMG, 3-3 for Gonzalez. Uribe scores, it's a 2-2 ballgame. DJ and Hawk praising Gonzo? Well, even Owens had one or two decent games this season. I think he actually started out 3 for 5.

Are the White Sox really interested in Corey Hart (not to be confused w/ the I Wear My Sunglasses at Night dude)???

Did anyone notice Rick Ankiel has 20 homers in the minors this year? If he made it back to the majors, that would be the Disney script for The Rookie II.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:54 PM) Thats really awesome. Good luck to you. 2-0 on the slow roller down the line. I have an MS in Sports Management and worked for the Augusta GreenJackets (we were w/ the Pirates at the time) two seasons, but I've only coached high school soccer, volleyball and basketball, so I don't think I will be selected. However, with the Olympics in Beijing in 2008 (along with baseball) and the very real possibility of exhibition games in Beijing and Tianjin next February or March, I think maybe I will take the "translator/marketing/promotions" angle and pitch it to them more from an administrative than coaching standpoint, as that's more my background.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:49 PM) Are you serious? You working on becoming an agent? Not really. However, I did apply for the MLB Envoy Coaching program and have been talking to someone in the MLB offices in NYC. They are close to opening an office in Beijing, but I am in Wuhan. I was in Colombia, South America, teaching last year and didn't find anyone worth signing in the games I watched in Cartagena, Santa Marta and Barranquilla. I did talk to Renteria's brother on the phone a bunch, and Orlando Cabrera is from there as well.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:46 PM) Would Earvin Santana and Brandon Wood meet that description (albeit Wood's status has dropped off a bit). Or maybe Howie Kendrick and prospects? PG Earvin "Magic" Santana? Or Swervin' Ervin Santana?

Well, I'm working on signing 3 players for the White Sox in China. If KW or Laumann doesn't listen to me, I'll send them the Royals' way. LOL. Actually, the Yankees signed the first two last week, and the Red Sox and Dodgers are already making inroads as well here.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:43 PM) If Terrero and Fields play everyday the rest of the year, and Paulie and Thome do their thing, the Sox should at least come close to the franchise record for ks in a season. Didn't seem to hurt the Tigers too much last season...

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:40 PM) What happened? Close to the foul pole, I think Farmer was "hoping" it inside a little too much. A little like the current Danks "real" ERA of 4.29, lol (minus the 3 runs against DET).

I'm trying to decide if having Everett, Daubach, Armando Rios, Dave Martinez or Cory Snyder in RF could possibly be much worse?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) I'm still convinced that Gustavo Molina for his 18 career at bats was the worst hitter in the history of baseball and luckily we'll never see him in the majors again. Andy Gonzalez is right there with him though and is possibly the worst in baseball right now. Danks is on his way out of the rotation. They would have been much better off with Wiki Gonzalez's offense, and our catchers throw out runners at about a 10% clip anyway, so it couldn't get much worse than Molina, Owens and Gonzalez for three players in the span of one season on an MLB roster. We have the worst outfield in the history of the "juiced ball" era in baseball. Wonder if any team will take Dukes "on loan" (and why they would do it) since neither the owner of the D-Rays' AA and AAA teams want anything to do with him?

Then why doesn't KW bring up Sweeney? There's obviously a concern that he not go back down to the minors the second time around this season...possibly when Dye is traded.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:01 PM) Hicks just gave Daniels a 1 year extension through 2009 like last week. Then the Rangers are more screwed up than even the White Sox if they think taking Ivy League MBA/Marketing/CEO types will ever lead to MLB success from a GM standpoint.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) Definitely. I still find it funny that he eventually worked his way back from being a mega bust and is now a semi decent reliever for the Tigers (but god the Sox got lucky on that one cause that would have been the original Joe borchard like bust). However, the one thing that tends to bother me is that if the Sox get burned just once doing something, they tend to shy away from it for a long long time. Case in point, they pretty much will never offer another draft pick over slot money thanks to Joe Borchard not panning out (however, you know in advance that the draft is a crap shoot, however, you still have to know the more you spend both on your scouts as well as on being willing to give more money to players, enables you to have a far better player development system). I should also say the Sox are not known to be a "cheap" organization in terms of the draft but they also aren't the Angels (who consistently invest in picks, including those high impact projected top couple round guys that slide due to strong commits or high salary demands). I would love to see the Sox take guys like Jordan Danks (first round talent that slid or the guy they took around the 20th round this year) and convert a couple of them and get them signed for top couple of round money (ie you give a 20th rounder projected to go top 2 rounds the amount he would have gotten had he went there) because it would essentially allow you to have more first round picks than you otherwise did. Well Tex is a Boras client and I think I'm missing one or two other guys that they have. They definitely did get burned pretty badly by Boras though so I wouldn't be shocked if they did start straying from them (considering how much bigger the Rangers offer was than any other team...but again it is ownership and management that eventually agrees to meet Boras demands). Daniels is nearly done. Not sure if he'll make much longer in Texas. His baseball background is incredibly thin. The Danks and Chris Young deals, along with giving up Cordero (and way too much for Lee when the Rangers were dead in the water) to the Brewers, signing Gagne...he's in far over his head. Ricciardi has had VERY mixed results in TOR and should be fired, but will fire his Rambo-esque manager first, DiPodesta was bad in LA and Epstein...well, it's hard to see how good Theo or Cashman would be unless you put them in the position of Dayton Moore in KC or down in Tampa Bay.

Who were some of the other Boras clients we failed to sign that were relatively high picks? Bobby Hill? Good move. AJ Hinch? Once again. Jeff Weaver? Not a big Weaver fan on many levels. I saw a list of three guys in one of the Chicago papers but couldn't remember specifically, just taking stabs in the dark.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:37 PM) His OBP is .311, not too different from Anderson's last season. In fact, as great as some think he's been, the White Sox part-time leadoff hitter has an OBP only .006 higher than Sammy Sosa, and only .009 higher than Josh Paul. I like the way he plays, but its rather obvious he was going to get hurt, and leading off? Please. Pods too. Pods was horrible last season and the second half of 2005. Thome has had physical problems 3 or 4 straight seasons. Crede's back issues aren't new. When these guys went down, except for Crede, it appears KW was totally unprepared. Brian Anderson DHing? Andy Gonzalez leading off or batting second? The farm system sucks, and KW needs to be a man and take most of the blame. If Shaffer or whoever weren't doing their jobs, something should have been done about it a long time ago. KW has been praising the crap prospects all this time. In fact, he got his job partially based on the Sox erroneously being given the tag of the best farm system when he was in charge. You think making the playoffs 1 time in 7 years in a 5 team division when for good part of the 7 years KC and Det were beyond horrible and Cleveland had to rebuild totally, and when for more than half the time the White Sox had the highest payroll in the division is acceptable? What's so funny about Shaffer losing his job is he would not have been let go had guys like Konerko, Dye, Pods, and any of the bullpen did their jobs. KW was looking for scapegoats. Well, Thome was very healthy until 2005, right? Of course, his advancing age should have been another consideration, but our getting so much back in cash was enough to mitigate the risk. Overall, Thome has been just as good, if not better, than most expected, coming out of 2005's injury-plagued season. Signing Gary Matthews Jr. was the only move, in retrospect, that would have worked...and that would have been met with universal scorn and derision, correct? Erstad was nothing but a stopgap move that didn't cost nearly the salary we pay Pods, Mackowiak and Cintron to be borderline horrible. And Darin had around a .338 OBP as leadoff hitter, something like that. He certainly wasn't the reason the offense tanked in 06 and 07, not at all. In all likelihood, we would have been even worse off with Darin. The best stretch this season for the Sox was when Erstad was healthy and raking the ball and getting numerous clutch RBI's. Minnesota is an anomaly. The Mariners, Angels and Rangers outspend Beane nearly every season too. The one year we won the WS, we didn't have an appreciably higher payroll, it was $75 million. If you don't point the finger at KW, that leaves JR (not going there again today), Walker or Guillen, Mariotti will continue his personal war against Guillen and now Phil Rogers is after KW with a full-frontal assault.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:34 PM) I agree with what you have to say. It should be on a case by case basis. But everything I ever read was that JR and KW will not deal with Boras at all. I just don't agree with that. Especially if teams like Detroit who are in your division are gonna go ahead and deal with Boras. Just curious, but was there ever any scuttlebutt about Dombrowski coming back to be the GM of the White Sox, as he started his career with the Sox front office? I know it's about as logical as bringing back Tony LaRussa, just curious... Also, maybe we should look at Kim Ng, who will be the first female GM in MLB history, is a Univ. of Chicago graduate and likewise started her career as an intern with the White Sox. She finished 2nd to Colletti for the Dodgers' job and was Asst. GM in New York with Cashman. Looking back, the I-Rod contract with DD was the defining moment...along with getting a much better player than expected in Carlos Guillen. Of course years of horrendous playing putting Verlander in your lap don't help, but there were plenty of Munsons, Penas, Cornejos, Easleys and Higginsons to go around too. The Kenny Rogers signing came back to haunt the Sox directly, not once, but twice...in 2003 w/ the Twins and 2006 with the Tigers. KW passed two times on him, and he was VERY affordable in 2003, when we died without that 5th starter.

If I remember correctly, the White Sox were paying Magglio $14.5 million in one of those classic escalator contracts, which would have meant the most they could cut him would be 20%, correct? Magglio...Swiss doctors...hernia operations? Getting stuck with Magglio, even at $11.6 million for 2005, seemed as zany as keeping Thomas as the full-time DH heading into 2006, although both those players returned to form, especially Maggs this year. GIving Magglio another long-term deal or paying Thomas $10 million, both those moves would have seemed to be VERY counterintuitive. Of course, the Tigers overbid on Magglio, but we don't know if that would have happened if they were also to give up Type A compensation as well. Same thing with Riske and the Royals and why he wasn't offered, even though his eventual deal with KC was for more than he would have gotten had we been able to cut him 20% from last year's salary. Two things about Dye. He was the best bargain in baseball for two seasons, it's not even close. Second, signing him for $45 million over 3 years coming into 07 would have been equally irresponsible. In unrelated news and notes... "Jim Thome and the White Sox visit the Royals this weekend"...thought that was funny, that's the best the Royals' marketing department could come up with for the upcoming series as the subject line of an e-mail from royals.com

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 12:04 AM) From the Department of Redunancy Department comes another thread giving space to bash Kenny Williams or White Sox ownership. Dear Sir, What else will we have to write about for the remainder of the season, pray tell, especially if no trades are made and the composition and age of this team doesn't dramatically change? I'm not bashing Guillen, you see that nearly everyday in the local and national press. Nothing about Greg Walker, Aaron Rowand or Scott BorASS. The current ownership group brought us a WS championship finally, kudos. Should they be willing to spend $125 million? What is a reasonable expectation of Sox fans who have rewarded the team in 05/06/07 with their hard-earned money? I don't know, but you can't expect the majority of reasonable fans to pay exorbidant prices for parking, concessions and tickets, even more for "premiere" teams. They're going to have to go back to deep ticket discounting...the period of Sox tickets being scalped has come and gone, and no new paradigm has been established. As always, win or perish. I do have a problem with KW/JR if they're not willing to pay MB $75 million for 5 years...because he is worth 50% more than Contreras or Vazquez with what he brings to the organization. Heck, you could argue he and Konerko are the most important and have no arguments. I think everyone has a problem paying Vazquez (Contreras I'm fine with due to the 05 and first half 06 seasons he put up), Uribe, Pods, Cintron, Mackowiak, etc., around $25 million. QUOTE(Beastly @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:01 AM) I think we're going to get screwed in a deal by any team for Buehrle. If you trade him, will that solve anything? Hardly. It will give us 3 prospects max that could help us out eventually. With a new scouting department going to be in place, let them find talent and build the minor leagues from the ground up. I don't want to be sitting here later on being like, "We shouldn't have traded Buehrle. That was such a s***ty deal." (Like the Thome trade.) I will honestly blame JR, because he's holding Kenny's balls in check by not offering 3+ years on a contract for a pitcher. I think, on the contrary, that Mark Buehrle is safe to stay, and that hopefully, we will only deal Jermaine Dye, who I find to be the slowest of all of our outfielders in fielding. I'll blame KW for putting together a craptacular bullpen and investing too much money in starting pitching. I pray to god I do not see Jose Contreras in town after the deadline, he is absolutely brutal and "unfun" to watch. Look at the Randy Johnson to the Astros, AJ to the Giants or Colon to the Expos for three trades that exemplify what we're looking for. You just have to rely on your scouting and cross-checking and pray to god you get the right 2-3 players (a pitcher and two position prospects hopefully, especially middle infielders and outfielders).

QUOTE(knightni @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 11:51 PM) Kenny Williams. Extending Vazquez and Contreras was foolish. UNLESS he knew "crystal clear" ahead of time that JR never had any interest in going beyond three years with Mark, in which case, it's simply self-preservation to hold onto your pitching assets. However, the logical question is why not put your focus on keeping Garland over either of the other two? Because he would have to "overpay" for Garland, who is not a strikeout pitcher and never will be, nor will he be a true frontline "ace" starter? Because he thought Vazquez was more likely to produce in the future, a dubious assumption? I guess you can buy the argument that Garland's 36 wins over 2 seasons will never be eclipsed, but trying to find another Loiaza or Contreras in Vazquez hasn't worked so well. As stated, almost everyone would prefer they trade Contreras and Vazquez and keep Buehrle paired with Garland and Danks...maybe it's not fair to prefer two players we identify more with in Mark and Garland, but that's the reality of the situation for most Sox fans I think. Unless Garland is also going to be getting or asking $14-15 million per year and five years, not sure he's worth that much. QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 11:58 PM) I blame Jerry Reinsdorf the most, if only he had a few more billion in the bank he would spend more money Spending and spending wisely are TWO different things. Look at the Cubs. The Cardinals essentially shortcircuited the process and did what we should have done right away, even though their fans weren't happy about it. Why spend millions on Cintron and Mackowiak when you could put that into scouting and development? The payroll on this team is allocated foolishly. Too much of it has been invested in expensive, veteran pitching (along with the bench, including Hall) and not enough on the bullpen and outfield in particular. Thank god we dumped Garcia one year early or things would even be more bleak.

The only way we're going to see wholesale changes is if JR has to fire Wiilliams...hopefully he would hire from the outside for once and bring in someone like Dayton Moore who is steeped in how to make an organization run successfully, such as the Braves. I do question why Moore wanted Milton Bradley when he already has Gathright, DeJesus, Teahen, Gload, Costa, Butler, Sanders and Emil Brown to find playing time for...unless he just wants to showcase him and get something back in return? But then why sink almost $10 million into Sanders and Brown, two players that are not long-term answers?

I've been reading a lot of this from afar, luckily, I haven't had to suffer from watching any of the losses since I've been out of the country since June 13th. Personally, I feel more heat should be on KW and Jerry Reinsdorf than anyone else. KW has "slotted" significant money to declining or plateauing pitchers in Contreras and Vazquez, leaving the Sox with the very real possibility of losing two favorites in Garland and Mark. Buehrle has been one of the best overall representatives of this organization since I became a Sox fan in the 1980's, along with Robin Ventura, McDowell (not talking about his problems with management, just his drive and competitiveness) and Lance Johnson. Actually, of the recent players, I would probably pick Jose Valentin. This whole Buehrle trade situation isn't KW's fault though. How can anyone be so blind to think that JR is not the puppet master here, pulling the strings, to quote Ed Wood, an all-time classic movie??? I'm not going to go into yet another dissection of the obvious faults in logic with the construction of this year's ballclub, and I'll give KW a pass for being overly optimistic based on the second half last year and Spring Training this year. I don't think either Ozzie or KW should be fired, YET, especially Guillen. Both have earned the chance to give this rebuilding strategy a go for at least two more seasons, after that, all bets are off, but if things go badly, you won't have many interested managerial candidates anyway. Probably Greg Walker, the way things are going! Obviously, most fans PREFER the White Sox give MB $75-90 million and 5 or 6 years. 95% of fans believe that will never happen, especially because the Sox won the World Series and there's not the same level of desperation that the Cubs currently have, despite their having passed our organization again in a short 9 month time window. As far as being a fan goes, I think that "no shows" are the best way to show your disdain for the current product on the field. OTOH, it goes against everything being a fan means, of any sports team. Of course, we always point to the North Side and say that supporting a losing product "enables" more losing, because if the fans accept it, why shouldn't the organization, as long as they're still profitable? The best example I can think of in football is the Kansas City Chiefs, they've only had a handful of playoff appearances and no wins for the last twentysome years, but the fans support that franchise like crazy. Only recently have they had to start marketing season ticket packages because there used to be such a long waiting list. I can't blame those who have tuned out. But I will remain cautiously optimistic that KW can get some dynamic young position players in return to go with our pitching depth and we can at least get back to .500 next year. Even that might be TOO optimistic, but ANYTHING is better than watching the current product on the field. Brooks Boyer has his work cut out for him, and I would have felt 100% better had they poached the Twins' Director of Scouting or Minor League Development, because the organizational problems here are so endemic...which is the main reason for gutting KW and OG and starting over philosophically. But I really want to see what OG can do with the type of team he has wanted since he started managing. He deserves that much respect for what this organization accomplished from April 05 through July 06.