caulfield12

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 02:25 AM) Perhaps well thought out, but I find it ridiculous, and the timing makes it worse. Compare the 2006 team to the 2005 team, and the 2006 team to the 2008 team. You won't find many similarities, yet all 3 teams have been very solid teams. Now compare the 2007 team to all those, and you still won't see many similarities. KW knows how to build a team and I think anyone looking ahead to 2010 is crazy. I also think you are flat out wrong in a lot of regards too. Swisher is a far superior player to Carlos Gomez and if you can't see that, you are friggin blind. Look at the numbers and watch them play. Gomez has a lot of talent, but he's an absolute moron of a baseball player and is pretty similar to Juan Uribe at this point. Giving a slight edge in LF is probably the worst of the all. The White Sox had the surefire MVP of the league in Carlos Quentin who is just as talented as Delmon Young but has actually put it together and is a ridiculously smart and patient hitter...Quentin blows him out of the water. And Morneau should not win the MVP. That should be Pedroia. If Morneau gets it, I couldn't help but feel that it's just Americans wanting Canadians to feel welcome. Finally, you are not considering free agent signings, trades, or draft picks that have yet to be made. The Sox actually make noise in that. The Twins biggest free agent signings over the past 2 years have been Sidney Ponson, Ramon Ortiz, Livan Hernandez, Mike Lamb, and Jeff Cirillo. I don't see any way that Fields is the 3Bman next season, and I would probably put better odds on Crede starting at 3B next year than Fields. Well, the obvious similarity is that that all of KW's teams have been built on a power-first premise offensively, and each of them has been built to win that particular season in question. In the beginning, the idea was that not only was having a power-hitting line-up more conducive to winning in Comiskey, it would also generate better attendance numbers (remember those "chicks love the long ball" ads?). The times when those teams have been very good or great (first 4 months of 2000, mid-season 2003, 2005, first half 06 and then 08), the pitching has been the primary factor, with the exception of 2006, where our offense carried the pitching that was starting to sag. With Gomez, it's not his OPS versus Swisher, anymore than comparing Pods statistically to Swisher (or Iguchi to Swisher) would reveal. It's how he fits in with the overall team, its philosophy and the way it attacks an opponent. Gomez, Young and Brendan Harris have been round pegs in square holes for large parts of this season (mainly because they weren't raised in the Twins' system), leading to untold headaches for Gardenhire, but they're knocking on the door and the roughest patch might prove to be 2008 for this group. One must remember Carlos Quentin was available to any team in the league for a C. Carter (now w/ Red Sox) level prospect. Like Jenks, there were some character/make-up issues. With Carlos, it's whether he is too high-strung or too intense not to let it get to him, to get the best of him...like it also does with Konerko from time to time. As I said, it's not so easy to just assume Quentin will be this good for the rest of his career, there are a number of other factors at play. I don't want any more Bristolized/ESPN MVP's. I believe the Twins would have had a much more difficult time without Morneau than the Red Sox without Pedroia. Just personal preference. I have no strong feelings about either player. If I was the CEO of Lifetime or Disney, I'd root for Josh Hamilton. The Twins don't have to do as much as we do (3B, RH relief), and they already have an asset in Cuddyer, who's more valuable than any player we could trade from our major league roster without creating another hole in the depth chart. By the way, it's 308 pm in Thailand, and it's "study/pre-finals week" at my university here, so maybe I do have too much time on my hand. I finished reading a Paulo Coelho novel, I decided to take a break and get the White Sox issues off my chest. Finally, something not remarked upon much (more about CQ and Quentin), but we wouldn't be in such a mess pitching-wise if not for Contreras going down. I still think it's pretty remarkable we're in first place, along with withstanding the Linebrink injury. We've just survived and treaded water, the Twins are the team that has really been choking recently (although if MB and Floyd lose and we wash out, we will be called chokers I guess).

Minnesota has an advantage going forward against the Sox at a majority of positions... If you were a GM, who would you want at these positions for the next three seasons (09/10/11)??? RF Slight edge to Twins. Dye will probably be better than Cuddyer/Span in 2009 (although you wouldn't know it based on the final month), but Span is very solid all-around player, he's young, and affordable. He won't put up the offensive numbers, but they have Morneau/Mauer/Kubel/Young for that in the middle of the line-up. He's a much better fielder than Dye and undoubtedly has a better arm at this point in their careers. The reason I give advantage Twins is because Cuddyer is a very valuable bargaining chip if they want to trade him for another part. Although they are overloaded with LH hitters, that's the main rationale for keeping him. CF Even...but leaning to Minnesota. Only because Swisher is not a natural CFer...both Gomez and Swisher have had disappointing seasons, based on projections/predictions for their impacts. Swisher has basically lost his spot to Griffey/Wise for now, in the most important series of the year. Going forward, Swisher should return to the .240-.250 range. Gomez has more raw talent and upside as a CFer, but also could flame out just as easily. LF Edge to Quentin. Although we could very easily say that Young has the better future after 2009. Young is an undisciplined hitter, won't take a pitch, strikes out a lot, can't field well and doesn't run the bases like he should. Sometimes he is lazy and an attitude/clubhouse problem. All that said, he's still just 22-23 years old and has a world of talent. I want to see Carlos repeat this year's performance, we all would...crossing my fingers that he's not next year's Nick Swisher. 3B Even, slight edge to Twins in future. Luke Hughes over Josh Fields. For this season Crede/Uribe=Harris/Buscher. SS Edge to White Sox...Alexei Ramirez over Alexi Casilla, due to the power and better arm. 2B ???? Tolbert versus Getz/FA/Trade 1B Edge to Twins, Morneau over Konerko, two MVP's likely in the last three seasons. Let's hope Paulie gets back to .280, 30, 100, 900 OPS form soon. C Huge edge to Mauer...on almost every variable but homers, but he's a doubles machine. DH Kubel/Young slight edge over Thome, just because of age and the fact that I will be covering my eyes if Thome starts showing signs of Griffey-itis. ADVANTAGE TWINS=4 (RF, C, 1B, DH) EVEN=2 (CF/3B) ???=1 (2B) ADVANTAGE SOX=2 (Ramirez/Quentin) Buehrle over Liriano. Now everyone thinks that's crazy probably, but unless Liriano gets back up to 94-96 MPH with his fastball and gets his slider up in the 85-88 range, then I take Mark. Of course, the second year of TJ recovery usually is the bounceback year, and Liriano at an admitted 70-80% of his former self has resulted in zero losses in AAA and the majors over the last four months. Still, Liriano is only 24 and a huge payroll bargain. Danks over Baker...Danks is younger, left-handed and already one of the best pitchers in the AL. Can he repeat? Baker is rock solid...very good BB/K ratio, one of the most unheralded starters in the AL. Floyd over Slowey...although I think it's much more likely Slowey repeats his 2008 season than Floyd, Floyd is the better pitcher due to overall talent and stuff, and he's really grown up and matured this season, in many ways, he's morphing into a "stopper" that Vazquez will never be. Perkins over Vazquez...simply due to the $10 milion that Javier eats in salary, obviously Javier is a more talented pitcher. But that doesn't equate to wins. Blackburn over Richard/Broadway...although he's severely fading, along with Perkins. Solid overall year. I didn't consider Poreda because he's at least 3-4 months away, if not 2010. Nathan even with Jenks LH relievers...edge to Twins, because they have four of them, we essentially have only Thornton, because Ramirez and Logan are lost and Richard isn't really a true reliever. Mijares looks very tough, Breslow has had a very good season, Reyes has another ERA in the 2's and Guardado will be gone. RH relievers...edge to Twins if Neshek comes back at full strength, even if not. Although I am doubtful either Dotel or Linebrink will put up better seasons than 2008. We'll see. Crain will have one more year to rebuild his fastball coming off surgery, he's not there yet. Guerrier is solid, but he's a 6-7th inning guy, not a true set-up type of pitcher. MacDougal for 09? Who knows? Bonser? Korecky? The White Sox might need to go out and get another reliever somehow...and hopefully we won't take the 2006 approach of throwing darts at the problem and hoping some stick. That didn't work. Sometimes you have to spend money or give up talent.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 11:47 PM) Is there anybody still left on the "Javy is our best pitcher" bandwagon that was pretty popular earlier in the season? I wonder. As for the Sox, they're 13-16 over their last 29 games. This hasn't been a good team for a long time, not a good team on the road, and not had a lot of success against winning teams all season. A Twins sweep wouldn't surprise me. I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, but this is not a team that's worth stressing over because they just aren't very good. You will end up disappointed in the end. I think I realized that a couple of weeks ago and have been much happier ever since. I was torn apart earlier in the week for wanting Chris Young back, but, after tonight, who WOULDN'T want Chris Young and Kenny Williams with $10+ million to work with to replace Vazquez??? Heck, KW's been smart enough to get Floyd and Danks by dumping salary and prospects, maybe, just maybe, he could find a leadoff hitter at SS/2B with that money. That's not completely out of the question. All I know is that we're not going anywhere with Vazquez, and the future prospects of winning the division against a Minnesota team that will keep improving, a dangerous Indians team, the Tigers and maturing Royals with Brian Anderson and Juan Uribe as starters, I just don't see how it's possible.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 10:38 PM) I feel your pain, but a lot of teams with much higher payrolls than the Twinks have fared way worse than the Twinks. In reality, we have the team that could/should win at least a division title this year (likely won't, I'm not drinking any koolaid). We have name pitchers in the bullpen (Dotel, Linebrink, Thornton, Jenks) that on paper are good enough to play on a division titlist. Considering Floyd and Danks have been terrific, we have the starting staff on paper good enough to win a division. We have tons of power hitters and a good backstop. We have a good enough manager though many of you disagree. All we lack is outfield defense and speed ... on paper. We have the pieces any general manager would be satisfied with, we just can't beat the Twins. That said ... if we blow the division title I could see KW blowing it up. That doesn't mean we'll be a better team next year or five years down the line. No guarantees. We had the team on paper this year to do it. The problem is blow up what? How? It's going to be very difficult to deal Thome, now that his option has vested. That leaves the obvious, like trading Vazquez...to make a bigger change, you need to deal Konerko, Dye and let Uribe go. I think the idea of Uribe as the everyday 3B for next season is going out the window quickly. He's best as a supersub or starter on another team. Ramirez is wearing down now, finally. The pieces that have the most value to other teams (outside of the obvious 4) are going to be Jenks, Thornton, Konerko and Dye. As someone mentioned, Nick Swisher is, at best, an average MLB 1B, because he's not a consistent 100 RBI type of player. He'll hit 20-30 homers (many expected 30-40 this year), but his .230-250 average weighs down his RBI numbers. The other problem with ditching Dye and Konerko is that the home run/power game is our biggest weapon and home field advantage. Retooling our team to mimic the Twins isn't essential. It is essential that we get more players like Ramirez and Tadahito Iguchi to complement the middle of the line-up. Right now, our offense is dead in the water...we need a 2009 version of Pods, and it's very hard to find someone like that. They just don't grow on trees. And they have to play SS/2B, unless you trade Dye and move Swisher/Quentin to RF. So KW simply has to scour the majors and minors for a CF and 2B/SS (depending on where he wants to put Ramirez, and I think SS is the obvious place, it's easier to find offense on the market (trade or FA) than at SS. And paying a very good SS, traditionally, is twice as expensive as a solid/average MLB 2B.

There's a productive out! Not. We are just really bad right now.

Vazquez was supposed to pitch on three day's rest against the COMPLETELY beatable Zach Jackson...the game we have to win, along with tomorrow's game with Buehrle. We only have to win game 3, 4 or 6 of the 50/50 games to get this done...if we win those 2. Buehrle, on 3 day's, would go against Cliff Lee Sunday. Anyone for starting Richard or Broadway? You really can't afford to, not against a CLE team playing as well as any team in the AL. The Royals took the first two on the road against DET, I think it's amazing we won 2/3 there. Just because we missed Greinke and Meche, though.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 08:19 PM) Game is far from over. But I ain't surprised a lick by what's taken place so far. Anybody who would rather have Javy over Chris Young, well, here we are. I think if you gave KW $10 million to work with to find another pitcher and Chris Young back, he would take that deal in a second at this moment. Vazquez...no live fastball, slowing down his delivery, the lack of rest will become the excuse I bet. I can't wait for the post-game quotes from Javier...they will make Jon Garland look like Vince Lombardi in comparison. Trade Dye and Konerko, live with Swisher for one more year and move on...I don't care anymore. And I'm not happy I have to watch Thome for another predictable year or two either...

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 08:18 PM) AND THIS SEASON IS OVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA That's just DUMB. Buehrle loses to Blackburn, then I start to get concerned tomorrow night. This season has gone back and forth too much to get excited about one specific game, especially one I expected to lose in exactly this fashion.

Nope...I don't even think Walker would be gone. Maybe! But the Quentin, Crede and Konerko injuries will be used as the excuse...we'll hear how Quentin, Ramirez, Danks and Floyd made such great strides, blah, blah, blah. Shades of Carlos Guillen in Seattle ALDS, 2000.

Like Mackowiak in 2006...it seems every ball was hit somewhere near him to expose his defensive ineptitude. And we're done, lol!!! Twins=fundamentals White Sox=horrible outfield defense, no speed

All that's missing from this game is the patented 2-4 run middle of the game implosion by Vazquez to put the game out of reach and gives us 90 minutes of Hawk praising the Twins ad infinitum.

That's where you place the curveball...low and away. Make them pull it on the ground. Better. Baker at 49 pitches, Vazquez at 47. Pretty even, except for the change over the heart of the plate and Griffey's DP. I STILL hate Vazquez...it's innings like this that will lose 2 more GM's their job on this guy down the line.

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 07:58 PM) Agreed. I don't remember Ozzie or Cora NEVER stressing fundamentals. No, two years ago...even in the middle of the season, they were running bunting camps on the weekend, in terms of execution. I think it was at Toronto. Specifically, it was for the players like Uribe, Iguchi, Mackowiak, Anderson, etc. Not everyone on the team, although it should have been.

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 07:58 PM) Second time AJ has gotten out on a ball out of the zone. At least Baker is up to 49 pitches. Almost 30% of the pitches to the Sox tonight have been to AJ.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Keep trying to homer OC. Watch that POS go hitless this series. There was absolutely nothing he could do with that pitch. He's just not selective enough for a leadoff hitter. Ideally, he is a 8/9 hitter on a really good team, or a 2 hitter.

Lovely, Lance Broadway is warming up. Just what we need.

This is making me miss Garland. At least he manned up in the big games in 2005, more or less. He had one sort of rough start in the WS, but we came back to get the victory. I just hope KW can find some gullible GM in love with Javier's "potential," peripherals and BB/K and IP/H ratio.

Getting killed with change-up. Always! What's new??? Thanks Javy. I just hope nobody bet money on Vazquez winning this game.

4 pitches low and away to Ramirez...he's going to make an adjustment hopefully. Let's hope SOME of our hitters (and BA wouldn't be one of them) can learn to drive that pitch to RCF and be content with singles and keeping the line-up moving up and down.

Baker already has 25 pitches and no outs. At least AJ's at-bat, he fouled off some pitches, and I think Wise at the bottom of the order gives us some balance offensively, with "hot" and cold hitters mixed in together.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 07:21 PM) Mauer invented hitting. f*** you Hawk. Maybe your goofy old ass can join Bert and circle each other. Well, it was since 1946 that a catcher won the batting title. This will be 2 in 3 years for Mauer, and he's great defensively. It's hard not to praise the guy...he always praised I-Rod when he was in his prime, too. There just aren't very many good catchers who can hit and throw exceptionally.

Why are the Mets giving Minaya for four year extension? For his sake, I hope Santana wins tonight. Kind of funny...I guess facing Baker is better than Liriano or Santana in 2006.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) He has 8 saves that took less than 3 outs to get and 0 multi-inning saves, 6 blown saves, has allowed a good amount of runs and more baserunners than any of the other elite closers this season. He just hasn't been all that dominant, he's just had an incredible amount of save opportunities which has more to do with luck than anything he's done on the mound. When Smoltz saved 55 in '02 he had 8 multi-inning saves and only 1 save that required less than 3 outs to record, he also had over 80 IP that year compared to K-Rod's poultry 67. Same thing with Thigpen the year he broke the record. He was a very good closer, but far from lights-out. The majority of those saves, like Jenks, you were on the edge of your seat and throwing the remote at the t.v. if you forgot to put it down. I also think the years of overuse are catching up with Shields and K-Rod.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:33 PM) I'd be willing to blow the whole bullpen to win tonight's game. It's that important. It takes a Twins sweep off the table. Keeps open the possibility of ending the division race in Minnesota. And cuts our magic number to 3 with 6 games to play. Plus, who knows if we'll need a bullpen Wednesday night? We've hit their starter hard. The only problem is that with the pitch-by-pitch stress and playoff-like atmosphere (see 1987/1991), you're right the first game is very important. But that also leads to 100 pitches under duress by Buehrle roughly being the same thing as 115-125 on a cold/crisp September or May start against the Royals outdoors. You just don't count on MB going the distance...with the White Sox road record, and Mark's 5+ ERA on the road, 4-9 record, etc. Of course, he's got the most wins against the Twins of any team in his career, and all the experience in the world in these situations compared to Nick Blackburn. But it just seems like all those things get thrown out the window and it's anybody's game to win or lose at this point, after this wacky, back-and-forth season. White Sox are underdogs in tonight's game for sure. 60% picking Twins, 40% picking Sox. http://scores.wagerline.com/baseball-score...tchups.aspx?t=0 I'm sure tomorrow it will be much closer to 50/50.

Using Thornton and Jenks for multiple innings just doesn't seem like a good idea to me, for some reason. Let's say we did that, we lost the game tonight by one run and then we couldn't use either for Buehrle's start against Blackburn tomorrow night? Then who would we turn to if MB had 100+ pitches going into the 8th inning? Maybe Ozzie would push Mark into the 120-130 range in pitch count, but our pitching (except for Danks) might be so taxed this week that we go down 1-2-3 to either the Red Sox or Rays next week. I know job #1 is the playoffs, but you have to manage on a game-by-game basis, and all signs point to Game 2 being the most critical of this series. You can also imagine the White Sox winning Game 1 and either relaxing and losing the next two (well, we "survived" and won one game!) or really taking it to a deflated Twins' team, like when we knocked out the Indians in 2005. And the Indians having a chance to return the favor 3 years later in our park really scares me from a karma standpoint. Fortunately, both teams have had significant roster turnover, but the memories are still there for Hafter, Martinez, Sizemore, Peralta, I'm sure they have not forgotten.