caulfield12

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) He has 8 saves that took less than 3 outs to get and 0 multi-inning saves, 6 blown saves, has allowed a good amount of runs and more baserunners than any of the other elite closers this season. He just hasn't been all that dominant, he's just had an incredible amount of save opportunities which has more to do with luck than anything he's done on the mound. When Smoltz saved 55 in '02 he had 8 multi-inning saves and only 1 save that required less than 3 outs to record, he also had over 80 IP that year compared to K-Rod's poultry 67. Same thing with Thigpen the year he broke the record. He was a very good closer, but far from lights-out. The majority of those saves, like Jenks, you were on the edge of your seat and throwing the remote at the t.v. if you forgot to put it down. I also think the years of overuse are catching up with Shields and K-Rod.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:33 PM) I'd be willing to blow the whole bullpen to win tonight's game. It's that important. It takes a Twins sweep off the table. Keeps open the possibility of ending the division race in Minnesota. And cuts our magic number to 3 with 6 games to play. Plus, who knows if we'll need a bullpen Wednesday night? We've hit their starter hard. The only problem is that with the pitch-by-pitch stress and playoff-like atmosphere (see 1987/1991), you're right the first game is very important. But that also leads to 100 pitches under duress by Buehrle roughly being the same thing as 115-125 on a cold/crisp September or May start against the Royals outdoors. You just don't count on MB going the distance...with the White Sox road record, and Mark's 5+ ERA on the road, 4-9 record, etc. Of course, he's got the most wins against the Twins of any team in his career, and all the experience in the world in these situations compared to Nick Blackburn. But it just seems like all those things get thrown out the window and it's anybody's game to win or lose at this point, after this wacky, back-and-forth season. White Sox are underdogs in tonight's game for sure. 60% picking Twins, 40% picking Sox. http://scores.wagerline.com/baseball-score...tchups.aspx?t=0 I'm sure tomorrow it will be much closer to 50/50.

Using Thornton and Jenks for multiple innings just doesn't seem like a good idea to me, for some reason. Let's say we did that, we lost the game tonight by one run and then we couldn't use either for Buehrle's start against Blackburn tomorrow night? Then who would we turn to if MB had 100+ pitches going into the 8th inning? Maybe Ozzie would push Mark into the 120-130 range in pitch count, but our pitching (except for Danks) might be so taxed this week that we go down 1-2-3 to either the Red Sox or Rays next week. I know job #1 is the playoffs, but you have to manage on a game-by-game basis, and all signs point to Game 2 being the most critical of this series. You can also imagine the White Sox winning Game 1 and either relaxing and losing the next two (well, we "survived" and won one game!) or really taking it to a deflated Twins' team, like when we knocked out the Indians in 2005. And the Indians having a chance to return the favor 3 years later in our park really scares me from a karma standpoint. Fortunately, both teams have had significant roster turnover, but the memories are still there for Hafter, Martinez, Sizemore, Peralta, I'm sure they have not forgotten.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:22 PM) K-Rod is no where near Cliff Lee. Rodriguez is having one of the least impressive record breaking seasons I've ever seen. Yep, quite a few teams have gotten to him this year or pushed him to the brink, unlike, say, 2002-2003. Actually, the White Sox have always fared comparably well against the guy, I think we've forced blown saves 2-3 times in his career, unlike Mo Rivera. I'm just saying, some of the baseball writers that don't stay up late (the Bristol/NY/Boston crowd) haven't really watched the guy very much this year. They just see the Angels' record and the sheer number of saves. Also, please/please/please, Javier Vazquez DO NOT let Justin Morneau beat you or throw a meatball with a 3-1 or 2-0 count. Walk him with the bases loaded, I don't care Ozzie. I would rather that than a grand slam or bases-clearing double into the RCF gap.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:10 PM) My addition to this thread is that Ozzie has to do his part too. And that means pulling Javy, as early as the 6th inning, if the game is tight. Two years ago we watched as Javy blew, by my memory, something like 11 leads in the 6th inning. It was unbelievable. The last game he won on the year was against Yankees, I believe. And he only won that game because Ozzie yanked him after 5. So, I only put the first 5 innings on Javy in tonight's game. After that, I consider Ozzie to have been forewarned. (Javy should be better, but it's just wishful thinking trying to make him into something he's not at this point.) Granted, our bullpen would be stretched to cover 4 innings, but it still might give us a better chance. Realistically, who do you want to have cover that many innings, assuming we're tied or down just 1-2 runs and don't end up using Jenks in the 8th or 9th? Do you want to burn through Thornton/Dotel/Linebrink. Can we just stick someone like Clayton Richard out there in relief and bring him into the game in a high-pressure situation (over Ramirez/Logan)? MacDougal? Carrasco, with the way he's pitched recently? I agree with not messing with Logan, Wasserman or Ramirez...and Adam Russell seems to have fallen into a BA/Sean Tracey black hole. Is Russell injured. At one point this season, I thought he had a minimal chance to replace Jenks someday, if we decided to dump salary. Blowing through our best relievers, I guess, is like this whole three day's rest thing. The season is still a marathon, not a sprint. Conceivably, the relievers might need to be available 7 days in a row, worst-case scenario. I keep pointing at tomorrow's game as the real pressure-cooker for Ozzie and the boys...Sox lose those first two games and the monkey is off the Twins' back and the Twins would in all likelihood sweep right through us and into the playoffs.

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/prob...mp;ymd=20080926 Earlier in the week, Meche was slated to start Sunday with Greinke getting his final start of the season today. Looks like Hillman/Moore are definitely looking at skipping Duckworth's final start so Greinke can get one more in, on what could be the most important day of the season, with Buehrle facing Cy Young winner Cliff Lee (unless K-Rod gets it).

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 01:59 PM) I'm not feeling it either just because. But even though KC is truly horrible, they had won seven in a row before we went there and won 2 of 3. So maybe we're playing better on the road?? maybe. Or maybe we were just fortunate not to have to beat Meche, Greinke and Davies somehow.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 02:01 AM) aren't we 1-5 there? meaning a 1-2 series, and an 0-3 series 0-3 = swept, hence theyv'e swept a home series vs us this year Nope, that series was a 1-3 loss, but certainly not a sweep. Close. There's a one game difference between the teams this year overall, very even.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Sep 23, 2008 -> 03:25 AM) If I could name a specific aspect of our team, specifically our pitching staff, that needs to be locked down to keep us in these games: Holding runners on base Our pitchers need to hold the ball, throw to 1st a LOT, not give up your best pickoff move, and keep these guys on 1st base as much as you possibly can I'm tired of teams running at will on our pitching staff because they're inept at holding runners, it's ridiculous and it's time for a change Obviously,Buehrle is one of the best. But we really need to work with Floyd on this...Contreras is well past redemption.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 10:34 PM) i remember the Sox had a 3.5 game lead heading into that series, they dropped the 1st one so the lead was cut to 2.5. With Cleveland on the verge of cutting the lead to 1.5, Rally Crede saved the Sox season with a walkoff homerun to put the lead back to 3.5 games. The Indians went on to win game 3 cutting the lead back to 2.5 games. But with 6 games left, the Sox got help from Tampa and KC as they went on to clinch in Detroit during the final week of the season. This is a pretty similar situation. Instead we go into this series with a 2.5 game lead. If the Sox can somehow win 1 game they come home with a 1.5 game lead against an Indian team playing pretty good baseball. If the Sox win 2, all the Sox would have to do is win 1 game vs the Tribe to clinch the division. That would be the 1st time the Sox have clinched their division at home since 1993. (Remember Bo's Home Run??) The other thing, besides the scrubs and McCarthy taking it to the Indians that weekend, was the Sizemore dropped ball in the sun in that Sunday day game in KC. I really think that specific moment was the turning point in the season...leading to so many more breaks, Gaffe-anino's play, AJ/Josh Paul/Eddings, missing their aces in each series, Clemens' health, El Duque getting out of Marte's mess, it's almost not possible to believe 3 years later.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 06:06 PM) Jensen Lewis is their closer. I think you're talking about Scott Lewis, who has been brilliant since his call-up. Yes, I know, the Indians' page had the wrong name for a couple of days and I wasn't paying attention. I was too lazy to go back and correct the first post, but I might as well now, since I am sure it will probably be relevant again.

The same reason Manuel got a free pass on 2001, despite the terribly disappointing performance overall after the equally sad loss to Seattle. We lost David Wells and Frank Thomas, and that was all she wrote...not to mention the battery of pitching injuries throughout the minors and majors that year. For those who actually watched entire White Sox games after May/June 2007, the reasons Ozzie is given a free pass are too numerous to elucidate further.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 01:50 PM) This is an issue that has been with this team for some time now. They tend to break down, taper off, cool off, whatever u want to call it towards the end of the season. This is a result of KW's composition of this team, not Ozzie. It even happened in 2005, but the effect was far less dramatic. The cause is the reliance upon older sluggers and run producers for much of the lineups production. Guys like Thome, Konerko, Dye, Griffey, AJ, etc all fall into this category. The one fortune area is Konerko, who b/c of injuries has only played 114 games. As we have seen hes playing near the top of his game recently, unlike the other older guys who have already played 140-150 games. They will always tend to cool off towards the end of the season rather than heat up. That is why losing CQ is so huge b/c he was in essence a balance act against the aging sluggers (him being a young slugger). Alexi too has gone a little cold in Sept, he has never played this many games before. Its the same thing over and over.....we have a lineup of guys (except for maybe CQ) who hit their walls at about 140 games....and were past that point. It's a bit of a mystery. It's not like Ordonez and Carlos Lee were not in their prime years of production from 2000-2004. In fact, they've posted better (somewhat inflated due to NL) numbers since those years than they did with the Sox. Arguably, both have become better hitters. If Thomas didn't have so many injuries, maybe things could/would have been different as well (of course, that can be blamed on age and carrying so much weight, right?). Maybe part of it is the September weather, the ball doesn't jump quite as much in our park as in July and August. Maybe there are more pitchers we haven't seen (due to Sept. recalls) and we tend to struggle against rookies and pitchers with so-so stuff, crafty lefties or guys we've never seen before?

QUOTE (BlackBetsy @ Sep 22, 2008 -> 07:21 AM) I voted one, because a sweep is too horrible to imagine. I think winning just 1 pretty much gets the Sox to 90% winning the division. A 1.5 game lead with 3 to go is pretty big - even if the Indians are hot. I rank the matchups in terms of favorability like this: (1) Buehrle vs. Blackburn - Buehrle on full rest, he's a big game pitcher, and Blackburn is slumping and the Sox hit his well this year. (2) Floyd vs. Slowey - This would be #3 except for the fact that I think if we lose the first two games of the series, Floyd wins the third. He always seems to do well coming off of a Sox bad streak. Slowey also only had 1 good game against the Sox - in the other two, he was lit up. (3) Vazquez vs. Baker - I know we've beat up Baker, and Vazquez will be on full rest. But I just hate Vazquez - he seems like a loser to me. I wish Buehrle was starting the series instead of him. Yes, BUT the Slowey start where he shut us out (9 IP, 6 H) was, of course, in the Metrodome.

Well, one thing this final six weeks has done has opened up the possibility of trading Konerko again...especially if we make it into the playoffs and he rakes again, like in 2005. Seems as if he's close to 100%. I just don't like giving up on Swisher so quickly (it would have been like dumping Vazquez after 2006). I think he could play a very solid 1B and then we could really improve our team speed/small ball characteristics from CF, 2B/SS and potentially 3B. You have to wonder if the team would be better off in the long-term trading Dye and/or Konerko now. Trading Thome seems less realistic, especially as he would have to stay in the AL obviously.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/prob...mp;ymd=20080926 My mistake, wasn't paying attention. Although if you go to their website, they have Jensen Lewis listed as the starter...when they are, in actuality, talking about Scott Lewis. This sets up as two series in a row where we are favorites in the second game, but would have to be considered 50/50 to win the wrap-around/bookend games. If we can win the two games we're supposed to win (Games 2 and 5 this week) and then just one of the four toss-up games (1, 3, 4, 6), the Twins would need to sweep the Royals, which would still give us a shot to walk into the playoffs Monday or go to the one-game playoff. The only thing that's scary is the sweep of boht the White Sox and Royals. Then we'd have to sweep CLE and win Monday just to get it. Yikes!!! But you have to think that either Perkins will lose Saturday or Meche will win on Sunday. Knock on wood.

I don't mind Griffey playing LF or RF, would rather see Wise in CF if Griffey is going to play. Maybe I'm sentimental, but I just think Thome and Griffey should prove in the first game or two they can't get it done before benching either of them. Konerko should be playing everyday, and maybe Swisher will get a start based on Sunday, but I think Thome/Griffey might come through big...at least I want to believe it will happen.

Well, it has been a mixed bag so far. Buehrle won his start, and Danks pitched wonderfully with the extra rest. I don't think anyone expected a sweep of the Royals on the road after the way we've been playing recently, but splitting in NY or TB taking 3/4 from the Twins would have been REALLY nice. That said, the division is definitely ours to lose at this point, no matter how you slice it.

The Twins really ran up their record against us in 2001 and 2002, when we were having so-so or bad seasons. We played well against them in 2003 until the last five games, then collapsed/imploded when Loaiza wore down. 2006, we were "dead man walking" the final 6 weeks or so. This is the first time in recent memory that the teams have faced off so late in the season with both teams playing fairly evenly and one or the other not having a dominant momentum or downswing. It seems there have been so many sweeps or blowouts in these games earlier in the season, with wild swings depending on which team had "mo" at the time.

FRIDAY Scott "Sutcliffe/Sabathia" Lewis versus Jon Danks SATURDAY Zach Jackson (crafty LH) against Javier Vazquez (3 day's rest) SUNDAY Cliff Lee versus Mark Buerhle (3 day's rest) Obviously, if it gets to Sunday, that's a scary proposition. Let's hope it is Broadway or Richard starting that game...or Carrasco. That would also allow us to start Buehrle in the first game at TB or Boston. By the way, I think TB is a little vulnerable in the bullpen right now, Wheeler and Percival have been so-so recently. MONDAY ???? DET versus Gavin Floyd (3 day's rest) Not sure about Fausto Carmona's status, and if he will be suspended and miss his scheduled start Wednesday against Boston. If he starts WED, we would miss him. I guess that's good, he has a 5.19 ERA this season, but he's capable of being dominant. Then again, pitchers like Lewis and Jackson scare me too!!! Every opposing pitcher is scary right now for Sox fans, except Blackburn, which means he'll probably shut us out!

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 10:31 PM) If we take the first one, then we take one more, for two total. If the first one is a loss, we don't win any. I don't really EXPECT Javier to beat Baker. When's the last time Vazquez went out and won a huge game for us that was critical? I do expect Buerhle to beat Blackburn, who's been pitching terribly, in the second game. If we lose the first two, then I think it is likely that Floyd succumbs to the pressure and a very tough Slowey (especially in the Dome) knocks us into a tie (1/2 game back).

Well, the worst case scenario, I don't want to think about a sweep, can't imagine it, yet wouldn't be 100% totally surprised. If we can win just one game, then even if Minnesota sweeps the Royals, we only have to win one out of three against CLE to at least get to a Monday game against the Tigers. The key is to win at least one...I think a sweep and we're probably history, although the way this season has gone, neither team has been able to sustain any sort of long-term momentum for more than a series or two, with one or two exceptions for both teams earlier in the season. If they sweep us WITHOUT Liriano going to the bump, then they deserve the division. They also have to pitch Perkins (9.75 ERA his last four starts, skipped and pitching on more than a week's rest like Danks) Saturday night and then face Meche on Sunday. Not to mention the fact that Trey Hillman could be a real bastard to the Twins and skip Duckworth and force the Twins to beat Meche and Greinke back to back on normal rest. Right now, Meche is slated to pitch the finale.

Wow...bringing in Jenks in the 8th.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 21, 2008 -> 03:00 PM) Nice play by Alexei. DJ is saying that this is Danks' last inning. Why in the hell would that be the case? Why would we want to hand the ball off to our horrendous bullpen when our starter is cruising and has a low pitch count? He definitely should be given the 8th, and then hand the ball to Jenks for the 9th. He's at 90 pitches now...I think you have to let him face Maier, if he gets him, you let him pitch to DeJesus. But I have a feeling we might see Thornton.

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