caulfield12

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:40 PM) What happened? Close to the foul pole, I think Farmer was "hoping" it inside a little too much. A little like the current Danks "real" ERA of 4.29, lol (minus the 3 runs against DET).

I'm trying to decide if having Everett, Daubach, Armando Rios, Dave Martinez or Cory Snyder in RF could possibly be much worse?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) I'm still convinced that Gustavo Molina for his 18 career at bats was the worst hitter in the history of baseball and luckily we'll never see him in the majors again. Andy Gonzalez is right there with him though and is possibly the worst in baseball right now. Danks is on his way out of the rotation. They would have been much better off with Wiki Gonzalez's offense, and our catchers throw out runners at about a 10% clip anyway, so it couldn't get much worse than Molina, Owens and Gonzalez for three players in the span of one season on an MLB roster. We have the worst outfield in the history of the "juiced ball" era in baseball. Wonder if any team will take Dukes "on loan" (and why they would do it) since neither the owner of the D-Rays' AA and AAA teams want anything to do with him?

Then why doesn't KW bring up Sweeney? There's obviously a concern that he not go back down to the minors the second time around this season...possibly when Dye is traded.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:01 PM) Hicks just gave Daniels a 1 year extension through 2009 like last week. Then the Rangers are more screwed up than even the White Sox if they think taking Ivy League MBA/Marketing/CEO types will ever lead to MLB success from a GM standpoint.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) Definitely. I still find it funny that he eventually worked his way back from being a mega bust and is now a semi decent reliever for the Tigers (but god the Sox got lucky on that one cause that would have been the original Joe borchard like bust). However, the one thing that tends to bother me is that if the Sox get burned just once doing something, they tend to shy away from it for a long long time. Case in point, they pretty much will never offer another draft pick over slot money thanks to Joe Borchard not panning out (however, you know in advance that the draft is a crap shoot, however, you still have to know the more you spend both on your scouts as well as on being willing to give more money to players, enables you to have a far better player development system). I should also say the Sox are not known to be a "cheap" organization in terms of the draft but they also aren't the Angels (who consistently invest in picks, including those high impact projected top couple round guys that slide due to strong commits or high salary demands). I would love to see the Sox take guys like Jordan Danks (first round talent that slid or the guy they took around the 20th round this year) and convert a couple of them and get them signed for top couple of round money (ie you give a 20th rounder projected to go top 2 rounds the amount he would have gotten had he went there) because it would essentially allow you to have more first round picks than you otherwise did. Well Tex is a Boras client and I think I'm missing one or two other guys that they have. They definitely did get burned pretty badly by Boras though so I wouldn't be shocked if they did start straying from them (considering how much bigger the Rangers offer was than any other team...but again it is ownership and management that eventually agrees to meet Boras demands). Daniels is nearly done. Not sure if he'll make much longer in Texas. His baseball background is incredibly thin. The Danks and Chris Young deals, along with giving up Cordero (and way too much for Lee when the Rangers were dead in the water) to the Brewers, signing Gagne...he's in far over his head. Ricciardi has had VERY mixed results in TOR and should be fired, but will fire his Rambo-esque manager first, DiPodesta was bad in LA and Epstein...well, it's hard to see how good Theo or Cashman would be unless you put them in the position of Dayton Moore in KC or down in Tampa Bay.

Who were some of the other Boras clients we failed to sign that were relatively high picks? Bobby Hill? Good move. AJ Hinch? Once again. Jeff Weaver? Not a big Weaver fan on many levels. I saw a list of three guys in one of the Chicago papers but couldn't remember specifically, just taking stabs in the dark.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:37 PM) His OBP is .311, not too different from Anderson's last season. In fact, as great as some think he's been, the White Sox part-time leadoff hitter has an OBP only .006 higher than Sammy Sosa, and only .009 higher than Josh Paul. I like the way he plays, but its rather obvious he was going to get hurt, and leading off? Please. Pods too. Pods was horrible last season and the second half of 2005. Thome has had physical problems 3 or 4 straight seasons. Crede's back issues aren't new. When these guys went down, except for Crede, it appears KW was totally unprepared. Brian Anderson DHing? Andy Gonzalez leading off or batting second? The farm system sucks, and KW needs to be a man and take most of the blame. If Shaffer or whoever weren't doing their jobs, something should have been done about it a long time ago. KW has been praising the crap prospects all this time. In fact, he got his job partially based on the Sox erroneously being given the tag of the best farm system when he was in charge. You think making the playoffs 1 time in 7 years in a 5 team division when for good part of the 7 years KC and Det were beyond horrible and Cleveland had to rebuild totally, and when for more than half the time the White Sox had the highest payroll in the division is acceptable? What's so funny about Shaffer losing his job is he would not have been let go had guys like Konerko, Dye, Pods, and any of the bullpen did their jobs. KW was looking for scapegoats. Well, Thome was very healthy until 2005, right? Of course, his advancing age should have been another consideration, but our getting so much back in cash was enough to mitigate the risk. Overall, Thome has been just as good, if not better, than most expected, coming out of 2005's injury-plagued season. Signing Gary Matthews Jr. was the only move, in retrospect, that would have worked...and that would have been met with universal scorn and derision, correct? Erstad was nothing but a stopgap move that didn't cost nearly the salary we pay Pods, Mackowiak and Cintron to be borderline horrible. And Darin had around a .338 OBP as leadoff hitter, something like that. He certainly wasn't the reason the offense tanked in 06 and 07, not at all. In all likelihood, we would have been even worse off with Darin. The best stretch this season for the Sox was when Erstad was healthy and raking the ball and getting numerous clutch RBI's. Minnesota is an anomaly. The Mariners, Angels and Rangers outspend Beane nearly every season too. The one year we won the WS, we didn't have an appreciably higher payroll, it was $75 million. If you don't point the finger at KW, that leaves JR (not going there again today), Walker or Guillen, Mariotti will continue his personal war against Guillen and now Phil Rogers is after KW with a full-frontal assault.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 05:34 PM) I agree with what you have to say. It should be on a case by case basis. But everything I ever read was that JR and KW will not deal with Boras at all. I just don't agree with that. Especially if teams like Detroit who are in your division are gonna go ahead and deal with Boras. Just curious, but was there ever any scuttlebutt about Dombrowski coming back to be the GM of the White Sox, as he started his career with the Sox front office? I know it's about as logical as bringing back Tony LaRussa, just curious... Also, maybe we should look at Kim Ng, who will be the first female GM in MLB history, is a Univ. of Chicago graduate and likewise started her career as an intern with the White Sox. She finished 2nd to Colletti for the Dodgers' job and was Asst. GM in New York with Cashman. Looking back, the I-Rod contract with DD was the defining moment...along with getting a much better player than expected in Carlos Guillen. Of course years of horrendous playing putting Verlander in your lap don't help, but there were plenty of Munsons, Penas, Cornejos, Easleys and Higginsons to go around too. The Kenny Rogers signing came back to haunt the Sox directly, not once, but twice...in 2003 w/ the Twins and 2006 with the Tigers. KW passed two times on him, and he was VERY affordable in 2003, when we died without that 5th starter.

If I remember correctly, the White Sox were paying Magglio $14.5 million in one of those classic escalator contracts, which would have meant the most they could cut him would be 20%, correct? Magglio...Swiss doctors...hernia operations? Getting stuck with Magglio, even at $11.6 million for 2005, seemed as zany as keeping Thomas as the full-time DH heading into 2006, although both those players returned to form, especially Maggs this year. GIving Magglio another long-term deal or paying Thomas $10 million, both those moves would have seemed to be VERY counterintuitive. Of course, the Tigers overbid on Magglio, but we don't know if that would have happened if they were also to give up Type A compensation as well. Same thing with Riske and the Royals and why he wasn't offered, even though his eventual deal with KC was for more than he would have gotten had we been able to cut him 20% from last year's salary. Two things about Dye. He was the best bargain in baseball for two seasons, it's not even close. Second, signing him for $45 million over 3 years coming into 07 would have been equally irresponsible. In unrelated news and notes... "Jim Thome and the White Sox visit the Royals this weekend"...thought that was funny, that's the best the Royals' marketing department could come up with for the upcoming series as the subject line of an e-mail from royals.com

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 12:04 AM) From the Department of Redunancy Department comes another thread giving space to bash Kenny Williams or White Sox ownership. Dear Sir, What else will we have to write about for the remainder of the season, pray tell, especially if no trades are made and the composition and age of this team doesn't dramatically change? I'm not bashing Guillen, you see that nearly everyday in the local and national press. Nothing about Greg Walker, Aaron Rowand or Scott BorASS. The current ownership group brought us a WS championship finally, kudos. Should they be willing to spend $125 million? What is a reasonable expectation of Sox fans who have rewarded the team in 05/06/07 with their hard-earned money? I don't know, but you can't expect the majority of reasonable fans to pay exorbidant prices for parking, concessions and tickets, even more for "premiere" teams. They're going to have to go back to deep ticket discounting...the period of Sox tickets being scalped has come and gone, and no new paradigm has been established. As always, win or perish. I do have a problem with KW/JR if they're not willing to pay MB $75 million for 5 years...because he is worth 50% more than Contreras or Vazquez with what he brings to the organization. Heck, you could argue he and Konerko are the most important and have no arguments. I think everyone has a problem paying Vazquez (Contreras I'm fine with due to the 05 and first half 06 seasons he put up), Uribe, Pods, Cintron, Mackowiak, etc., around $25 million. QUOTE(Beastly @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:01 AM) I think we're going to get screwed in a deal by any team for Buehrle. If you trade him, will that solve anything? Hardly. It will give us 3 prospects max that could help us out eventually. With a new scouting department going to be in place, let them find talent and build the minor leagues from the ground up. I don't want to be sitting here later on being like, "We shouldn't have traded Buehrle. That was such a s***ty deal." (Like the Thome trade.) I will honestly blame JR, because he's holding Kenny's balls in check by not offering 3+ years on a contract for a pitcher. I think, on the contrary, that Mark Buehrle is safe to stay, and that hopefully, we will only deal Jermaine Dye, who I find to be the slowest of all of our outfielders in fielding. I'll blame KW for putting together a craptacular bullpen and investing too much money in starting pitching. I pray to god I do not see Jose Contreras in town after the deadline, he is absolutely brutal and "unfun" to watch. Look at the Randy Johnson to the Astros, AJ to the Giants or Colon to the Expos for three trades that exemplify what we're looking for. You just have to rely on your scouting and cross-checking and pray to god you get the right 2-3 players (a pitcher and two position prospects hopefully, especially middle infielders and outfielders).

QUOTE(knightni @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 11:51 PM) Kenny Williams. Extending Vazquez and Contreras was foolish. UNLESS he knew "crystal clear" ahead of time that JR never had any interest in going beyond three years with Mark, in which case, it's simply self-preservation to hold onto your pitching assets. However, the logical question is why not put your focus on keeping Garland over either of the other two? Because he would have to "overpay" for Garland, who is not a strikeout pitcher and never will be, nor will he be a true frontline "ace" starter? Because he thought Vazquez was more likely to produce in the future, a dubious assumption? I guess you can buy the argument that Garland's 36 wins over 2 seasons will never be eclipsed, but trying to find another Loiaza or Contreras in Vazquez hasn't worked so well. As stated, almost everyone would prefer they trade Contreras and Vazquez and keep Buehrle paired with Garland and Danks...maybe it's not fair to prefer two players we identify more with in Mark and Garland, but that's the reality of the situation for most Sox fans I think. Unless Garland is also going to be getting or asking $14-15 million per year and five years, not sure he's worth that much. QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 11:58 PM) I blame Jerry Reinsdorf the most, if only he had a few more billion in the bank he would spend more money Spending and spending wisely are TWO different things. Look at the Cubs. The Cardinals essentially shortcircuited the process and did what we should have done right away, even though their fans weren't happy about it. Why spend millions on Cintron and Mackowiak when you could put that into scouting and development? The payroll on this team is allocated foolishly. Too much of it has been invested in expensive, veteran pitching (along with the bench, including Hall) and not enough on the bullpen and outfield in particular. Thank god we dumped Garcia one year early or things would even be more bleak.

The only way we're going to see wholesale changes is if JR has to fire Wiilliams...hopefully he would hire from the outside for once and bring in someone like Dayton Moore who is steeped in how to make an organization run successfully, such as the Braves. I do question why Moore wanted Milton Bradley when he already has Gathright, DeJesus, Teahen, Gload, Costa, Butler, Sanders and Emil Brown to find playing time for...unless he just wants to showcase him and get something back in return? But then why sink almost $10 million into Sanders and Brown, two players that are not long-term answers?

I've been reading a lot of this from afar, luckily, I haven't had to suffer from watching any of the losses since I've been out of the country since June 13th. Personally, I feel more heat should be on KW and Jerry Reinsdorf than anyone else. KW has "slotted" significant money to declining or plateauing pitchers in Contreras and Vazquez, leaving the Sox with the very real possibility of losing two favorites in Garland and Mark. Buehrle has been one of the best overall representatives of this organization since I became a Sox fan in the 1980's, along with Robin Ventura, McDowell (not talking about his problems with management, just his drive and competitiveness) and Lance Johnson. Actually, of the recent players, I would probably pick Jose Valentin. This whole Buehrle trade situation isn't KW's fault though. How can anyone be so blind to think that JR is not the puppet master here, pulling the strings, to quote Ed Wood, an all-time classic movie??? I'm not going to go into yet another dissection of the obvious faults in logic with the construction of this year's ballclub, and I'll give KW a pass for being overly optimistic based on the second half last year and Spring Training this year. I don't think either Ozzie or KW should be fired, YET, especially Guillen. Both have earned the chance to give this rebuilding strategy a go for at least two more seasons, after that, all bets are off, but if things go badly, you won't have many interested managerial candidates anyway. Probably Greg Walker, the way things are going! Obviously, most fans PREFER the White Sox give MB $75-90 million and 5 or 6 years. 95% of fans believe that will never happen, especially because the Sox won the World Series and there's not the same level of desperation that the Cubs currently have, despite their having passed our organization again in a short 9 month time window. As far as being a fan goes, I think that "no shows" are the best way to show your disdain for the current product on the field. OTOH, it goes against everything being a fan means, of any sports team. Of course, we always point to the North Side and say that supporting a losing product "enables" more losing, because if the fans accept it, why shouldn't the organization, as long as they're still profitable? The best example I can think of in football is the Kansas City Chiefs, they've only had a handful of playoff appearances and no wins for the last twentysome years, but the fans support that franchise like crazy. Only recently have they had to start marketing season ticket packages because there used to be such a long waiting list. I can't blame those who have tuned out. But I will remain cautiously optimistic that KW can get some dynamic young position players in return to go with our pitching depth and we can at least get back to .500 next year. Even that might be TOO optimistic, but ANYTHING is better than watching the current product on the field. Brooks Boyer has his work cut out for him, and I would have felt 100% better had they poached the Twins' Director of Scouting or Minor League Development, because the organizational problems here are so endemic...which is the main reason for gutting KW and OG and starting over philosophically. But I really want to see what OG can do with the type of team he has wanted since he started managing. He deserves that much respect for what this organization accomplished from April 05 through July 06.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) per rotoworld: I just thought that this was interesting since you mentioned him yesterday. I didn't know he could pitch. Matt Bush-SS- Padres Jun. 23 - 9:13 am et Converted shortstop Matt Bush threw 94-98 mph while striking out two in a scoreless inning during a extended spring training game on Friday. "He's been the talk of minicamp," said Mike Wickham, assistant to Vice President Grady Fuson. Bush will continue to work as a reliever and could make an impact on the major league roster in 2008.Source: San Diego Union-Tribune Didn't work so well w/ Jason Dellaero or Brooks Kieschnick. Quick thought: Why not add Uribe to the bullpen?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 08:24 PM) Liriano's mechanics are to blame, not WBC. Peavy might be a fair case, but I doubt the extra, what? 20 innings hurt him. He'd have been pitching in Spring Training if he hadn't been in the WBC, anyway. I think the effect is very much overstated. 1) Liriano had a past history of injury problems in A ball, that's why he was made available. 2) Liriano throws/threw his slider with such torque he was another Kerry Wood waiting to happen. The elbow isn't mean to withstand that kind of stress. It was bound to happen, just not that soon.

Is KW still in possession of his mental faculties? I am in Philippines now, but it seems he might need to be checked into psychiatric center. What's the deal with Aardsma? Same 'ol same 'ol?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 11:46 PM) He makes moves in the offseason, to stave off a string of 90 loss seasons. And now he is talking about going down with the ship, all because the first baseman has a good feeling about a team that has been well under 500 since the ASB of last year. To win this division we will need 93 plus wins. Take a gander on the silly winning percentage we would need to get to 93 wins now. We're 16 games under .500 for roughly one full season, and last in runs produced over that period as well. No surprise. I've been arguing this trend from the beginning, but quite a few people didn't like the "aggregation" of the 2nd half 06 and first half 07 numbers...

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 06:04 PM) Don't forget Torrero, another player Ozzie has no problem with. This goes back to my basic question about Ozzie Guillen. Jerry Owens leads off for Guillen and in a month can't muster a single walk. Not one. How is that possible if Guillen and Walker are really teaching patience? That stat is so bad that it seems they are teaching impatience. Further, the fact that he can't get on base doesn't dissuade Ozzie from leaving up up top. He loves Erstad and his .310 OBP at the top; Except for 1 season (maybe 2) Erstad has been below average at getting on base, but he's exactly what Ozzie wants at leadoff. Where is there any evidence that Ozzie values patience, much less a leadoff man actually being able to get on base? I agree that Sweeney wasn't ready. But neither is Owens, Torrero and Gonzales never will be. It appears that we traded an outfielder with potential for another Ozzie-style low-ceiling utility infielder. I guess the idea is to leave the utility players up as they have limited potential anyway, and they have plenty of role models on this team. Meanwhile, Ozzie-ball is last in the AL in offense and 9 below .500 and dropping. Erstad's .338 OBP as a leadoff hitter is not why we're barely ahead of the KC Royals. It's a little below average, but pretty similar to what Pods did last year. Apparently, they want to give the team 2-3 more weeks after both those guys come back before making any "deep" roster cuts in the trade market. I think Ozzie preferred Pierre, but where would be with him or Roberts, much worse off than we are with Jerry Owens. There's no doubt this team would be better off with Gary Matthews Jr., but his contract was ridiculed universally, almost as much as Meche's. There must have been 3-4 occasions any team in the majors could have had him for a song. Owens will be back in AAA and play a lot in the 2nd half when the infusion of Erstad and Pods fails to get us back into the race. If we continues to have such a horrific OBP, he will undoubtedly be waived in the offseason.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 07:12 PM) Konerko didn't spend parts of 4 seasons in AAA. Lasorda traded him to Cincinatti because he needed a closer and was concerned about Konerko's hip. The Reds traded him for an up and comer who they used to get Ken Griffey Jr. Floyd was dumped by Philadelphia, using the courtesy line, "all he needs is a change of scenery". Change of scenery? See the following: Jose Contreras Carl Everett AJ Pierzynski Matt Thornton (2006 at least)

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) We will surely need to replace Gooch after we let him walk for nothing. Iguchi and Riske are not unlike...I can see no reason why KW would want to keep him, and offering him arbitration (to try to get draft pick compensation) only puts us in a precarious situation if we end up having to take him back. Iguchi was good in 05 and 06 but he's obviously in a "decline mode" and his defensive skills, especially, are eroding. This is all a part of the next generation of Sox players getting younger, faster and more athletic. Obviously, Andy Gonzalez and Pedro Lopez (while he was here) were not the answers. If anything, this was a shot in the direction of Chris Getz and Pablo Ozuna, they were the two best candidates to play there in 2008, maybe Cintron as well because of his weakened arm and more limited range. Cunningham was at least two and probably three (going by past Sox development history) years away from being a possibility to start for the White Sox. Signing an Eckstein or Luis Castillo was not going to improve this team for 09, 10 or 11. We need players that are 22-28, not 32-38. It's that simple. If you can combine these younger, hungrier starting players with solid starting pitching and a few bullpen fixes, we should finish between .500 and 10 games under. However, we have to make a significant jump next year in preparation for 09 and 10. And we have to be patient, the thing that's in shortest supply around here. QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 10:56 PM) They haven't been given a chance. Ozzie jerks Anderson around; despite a good second half and good spring, he benches him and gives him a handful of at bats in the first month. Sweeney played 1 month. (I certainly hope, Ozzie didn't put him into his dog house; he wasn't hanging around Ozzie, jr, was he?). We don't know that they're busts. Did Ozzie and Walker enable their development and allow them to bring out their best, whatever it may be. On the other hand, Jerry Owens, who has the lowest ceiling of the prospects and a .178 OBP (zero walks) stays up. Gonzales, a potential major league utility infielder, is playing outfield - he's not a serious prospect, but he gets serious playing time. Pretty soon Ozzie won't have any choice - he'll have to play prospects and hopefully he'll try to develop them. They don't need coddling (he does that with Vasquez, and it 's a failure) - they need teaching, leadership and development. Sweeney showed some patience and discipline (better than most of our veterans), but he was obviously overmatched and the Sox were right to send him down when they did. Almost all of his hits were to LF, except for the few times he turned on the ball. And he wasn't hitting many liners to LF either, they were mostly bloopers and dunks and he was getting busted inside over and over again. He also needs to mature physically, just get stronger and more confident. He'll be fine and will play a ton in the 2nd half with Dye probably getting traded. With Owens, we need speed to replace Erstad and Pods at the top of the line-up. I think Owens will go back down this week if he continues to struggle and they might have to bring up either Sweeney or Anderson again...or Erstad/Pods will come back. Andy Gonzalez is just a "filler" while the real prospects step in...perhaps he could take Ozuna's or Cintron's place, but that's a best-case scenario for him. Anderson is definitely not a leadoff hitter, and Sweeney's not an ideal fit for that role either. Iguchi or Mack are the only ones other than Owens, and both those guys are far from "protypical." If nothing else, we're proving that JO is NOT a candidate to replaces Pods in 08, but we should give him a little more time, as there's absolutely nothing to lose, right? As far as coddling Vazquez...it's a no-win situation. He takes him out early, everyone says he's undermining his confidence and he will never work through things on his own...he leave him in, he might give up a big inning, but compare his ERA to anyone in our bullpen (especially middle relief) and you'll see the short and simple answer, because Javier is the best option...or the "least worst" option to get to the later innings. Manuel screwed with Garland, and Ozzie "coddled/supported" him and that seemed to work out just fine, don't you think? Garland wasn't going to win 36 games in 2 years for Manuel, I'll tell you that. He's a 4/5 starter with 1-3 starter stuff. We can trade him for young position players or accept him for what he is, it's really that simple. We can give up hoping he becomes an "ace" like Loaiza or Contreras though.

It looks like Fields is really coming around. Unfortunately, we might never get any return on investment w/ Crede (except for that little ol World Series victory!) I think we'll be okay if Fields and one more of the following (Owens, Sweeney, Terrero or Anderson) can become a major league regular. Obviously, the odds favor Sweeney there the most, because Owens is a 4/5 outfielder/PR and Anderson's currently out of favor. Actually, I don't think there's a HUGE difference at all in Terrero and Anderson. Of course, that's just an opinion. I am out of the country (in the Philippines), but it seems like Josh is really starting to evolve and feel like he belongs (having Crede out for the season obviously helps his confidence)...still, it's going to come down to pitching, both starting and bullpen. The fact of the matter is that we'd be right around .500 or maybe even a game or two above with just a top third or top quartile pen, instead of the worst one in the major leagues. Even if we were hitting like the first half 2006 team, the bullpen would be slowly destroying this team's confidence, because the 05 game closed those 1-2 run leads so consistently after Takatsu was sent packing. It's really simple, Floyd, Gio, Masset, Russell, McCullough, Broadway, Phillips and Haeger (not to mention this year's draftees) have to provide us AT LEAST a 2-3 level starter and another 4-5. It's not out of the realm of possibility...and I haven't read the Cunningham trade thread but my first impression is that we "overvalued" him because he was one of our few position prospects in the low minors, but he was more of a Rowand/Reed/Erstad/Anderson type (perhaps with a little more power upside) than a future MLB All-Star.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:09 PM) Thornton was credited with the loss. I'm just saying, with the way that inning was shaping up, I don't think ANYBODY would have been surprised had Burrell hit a three run bomb...the way the ball was flying out there, even Pods would hit a few. This way, Danks left the game with positive feelings about his outing, and he didn't have to suffer the indignity of leaving the game trailing and then watching the inept offense trying to mount a threat of some sort. Too bad they can't give Uribe a "loss share" for this one, the Rowand GS was just icing on the cake.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Now as everybody knows by now, I don't blame Ozzie for THIS year. And as everybody also knows, if we had won today it wouldn't have mattered. But Ozzie still made decisions that were inexcuseable: -Taking Danks and his 102 pitches out after 4 and 2/3 innings. First of all, whatever happened to trying to get your pitcher the win. Plus, he just struck out Ryan freaking Howard, had got Burrell out earlier in the game, and realistically could have tried to pitch the 6th too had he got Burrell out, while only giving up 2 runs. -Bringing Thornton in during the 6th. Bring in the damn loogy Ozzie! You could have let Logan do the work, than pinch hit for him in the bottom half. But nope, Thornton comes in AND is allowed to bat with a man on base and the game tied. Hell, why not even double switch Fields out of the game? He made the last out of the 6th, you LOVE Andy Gonzalez, and you took Fields out in a double switch last night. -Thanks for getting our best left in for the 8th to whiff the heart of their order. Not like it was too late or anything, or that Logan has looked 10 times better than Matty has lately. At least Fields made a great play to save your ass for the moment to end the 5th on Burrell I guess. -Thornton has thrown 40 pitches, had NO control, and the bases were loaded. What do you do? LEAVE HIM IN TO FACE THE RIGHTY!! That grand slam might have simply been the baseball gods slapping Ozzie in the face for being a dumbass. At least you hit Jerry Owens, a bad player on 1 leg, leadoff though! Again, let me be clear. My blame for 2007 goes squarely on Kenny Williams. But today's game might have been the worst managed by anybody in baseball this year. I'm 100% sure that Ozzie would have 14 threads complaining if he left Danks out there in that situation, he gave up the lead and Jon ended up falling to 3-7 on the season, despite an ERA near 4.00 (if you take the three God-forsaken Uribe runs off the board from that DET game that seemed about 10 years ago).

Nice play by Fields to save the lead. It's nice to have some players who can run and bunt and go from first to third in Terrero, Fields and Owens (well, half of an Owens).