caulfield12

I can't wait to hear all the Ozzie second-guessing... for taking Danks out of the game one batter away from being in position for a "sure" win, lol...although, if Bukvich gives up a homer or double, I think that will be the end of Ryan in a Sox uniform.

AJ now 3 for 30 with runners stealing against him, soon to be 3 for 31 with Victorino at 1B... Less than 10%, not so good. You can't blame it all on Contreras.

Why was Masset warming up in the first inning last night and continuing to warm up when the Sox were hitting in the top of the 2nd?

Craig Wilson might be higher in the pecking order than Clark at this point.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10221427 An interesting insight into the Rangers' problems (besides pitching), and how they're not willing to adapt to Washington's "small ball" approach after being successful with the "3 run homer and a cloud of dust" approach of the White Sox offense. No mention of Rudy Jaramillo in all this. I actually think Daniels will be the first to be fired, he's obviously in over his head. Are there White Sox hitters (like Texeira) that are refusing to change their approach in defiance of KW and Ozzie? I don't think so, but maybe the Sox organization isn't being tough enough on the younger hitters...or is simply teaching them the wrong philsophy? The only players they have been "tough" with are McCarthy, Anderson and Tracey (I guess). Of course, there's lots of theories about Anderson, that 1) he isn't serious enough/parties too much, 2) has a bad attitude, 3) refuses to adopt "small ball" fundamentals even though he's not a power hitter, etc. I haven't seen Ozzie be anything but supportive of Sweeney, Owens and Fields, despite their struggles. Each of those three guys has had lots of playing time, Ozzie's not sitting them on the bench. Even Terrero is getting to start almost every game.

Iguchi might be the slowest leadoff hitter in MLB history.

11 unearned runs against Jose this season, 2nd in the majors 12 of 37 Sox errors have happened with Contreras on the mound...thanks Iguchi, for putting their best baserunner on

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) Is that in green for sarcasm cause I totally agree with your post Steff. I also think it is ludicrious to sit here and not make some sort of moves. Plus, Kenny worrying about what Ozzie does is a bit different because if Ozzie does too much he gets fired and gives the Sox a horrific perception, but when it comes to the day to day baseball operations you can't focus too much on what the fans think (and I really shouldn't say fans...rather the casual fans, because I think most of more intelligent baseball fans will realize moves need to be made and this "offense" needs to get younger and quick). I do disagree with a couple people when it comes to the farm system, I think Sweeney and Fields are keepers (I never thought I'd say that about Fields) while I could give two craps about BA and I doubt BA will be around past the trade deadline. Right now, I'd strongly consider moving Dye now. Dye could bring in some young talent and energy. See if that can make a difference (try to acquire a front line starting prospect and a front line outfield prospect). Than at that point you could hold off making additional moves. I'd hold onto MacDougall (unless we get a stellar offer because he has a fantastic arm and is signed to a very good deal, same goes for Aardsma as I still think both have good futures at the major league level). You could than take a holding pattern after moving Dye and than if things still don't improve, I'd turn to the next level which would be trying to move Iguchi (unless of course we think he's going to be a Type A compensation as I think we'd get a lot more value with the draft picks than what the club would get via trade). I'd also think you have to consider moving AJ if in one of the deals the team acquired a very good young catching prospect ready to share time with Toby Hall (I think AJ would have a good deal of value on the market to the right team, potentially a club like the Angels, although Mike Napoli has started to hit). I think it is important to get a catcher that can actually throw runners out (I also have no problem if the club holds onto AJ). AJ, Iguchi, Dye can all be moved, imo. Podsednik if he comes back healthy and does something could still help a contender looking for a spark at the top of the order. You move him simply to open up another spot, same could potentially be done for Erstad (both of those guys are gone at the end of the year so why not give it a shot and see if you could get some lower level prospects for them). Yes...that leaves a lot of holes, but I'd imagine the club would be able to acquire some things and could still buy other parts (parts that it feels will be valuable for the next couple of years) and you also have to remember you still have a rotation of Garland, Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks and Contreras (I'd hope they could get Contreras and be able to convince him of a trade) which means this team still contends next season (its just a matter of getting time to evaluate guys this season). So I sell AJ, Iguchi, Dye and potentially one of Buehrle/Contreras (perfect case has you convincing Contreras of a deal and yes a contender would be all over that, while you than offer Buehrle a fat contract). I than buy on an outfielder or two (using prospects not named Gio, Sweeney, Fields rather guys like McCulloch, Broadway, etc). Even if Mark gets a 4 million dollar raise from last season, you've cut salary in AJ (4-5 mill, Iguchi 4 mill or so, Dye 7.5 mill or so, Pods 2 mill or so, Contreras (10 or so), Erstad (saving his option from next year). The problem with holding on to Iguchi is the same one we were assessing with Riske last offseason. Were other teams going to make legitimate offers for him? Riske made $1.8 million in 2006, and the Royals signed him for $2 million, so we lost any compensation because we didn't offer arbitration, which would have meant the lowest we could have offered him for 2007 would have been a little north of $1.4 million. I wonder if Riske would have even qualified as a Type A FA, I kind of doubt it, based on 2006, but it's also based on an "averaging" of prior years' performances as well, it would be interesting to see where he would have qualified, and if any teams would have given up a pick (or picks) to sign him. If you offer Iguchi arbitration and he can't find a better deal than $3.5 million or so, then you're stuck with him if he can't find any buyers on the open market. I have no idea or sense of what Iguchi's value is, but I can't imagine many teams are going to want to spend more than that on a player losing power, speed, fielding ability and with a questionable arm for that position. And we can't go into 2008 with Hall as our starting catcher, his throwing is worse than AJ, if that's possible...and I don't think we're going to get Salamacchia or whatever his name is, although that would be wonderful if it occurred.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:11 AM) They need to sign Buerhle or risk losing half of their fan base. I believe the season ticket base last year was 24,000. Next year it could be down to 12,000 if they sell everything off. I know a few things about baseball and here they are, pitching wins games, defense wins games, and hitting goes into slumps. We have 5 good starting pitchers right now that should stay here. These are the guys that this team should be built around. I have no faith in Egbert, De Los Santos, Gonzalez, Floyd, or any blue chip prospect coming up and succeeding. Nor do I want prospects from other teams which may or may not pan out. I do not want Buerhle traded for the likes of a Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney, or Josh Fields. Iguchi is one of the best hitting second baseman in baseball and will be afforable. His range is not that great but he is a solid hitter and he and Uribe are fine. Dye is old and should be moved. Problem is, nobody is going to risk a prospect worth anything for him unless he gets hotter than s*** real soon. The media will fry this franchise and rightly so if these pieces are sold off for nobody's. I am not sure what is going to happen to Crede as I assume he will not take a pay cut and that situation will get really ugly really quick. Since the end of last season KW traded two pitchers making a combined $10M and added nothing. I understand the other players got raises but that is not what is put in the media. Losing the three free agents and Crede opens about $27M. That is a preceived $37M decrease in two offseasons. The chances of Ichiro hitting the market are very slim especially with the M's making a playoff run. Andrew Jones will not be worth the money and Hunter will be overpaid as well. If KW does not want to overpay the payroll will be under $80M next season and in exchange for the fans coming out for two seasons they will get jobbed. I will not pay the money for a team that is slashing payroll. They increased ticket prices a good amount the last two years and have regressed. Think prices will come down next year....... In closing, they need to resign Buerhle.....and I can't believe I am saying this, Rowand, for simple PR. If not attendance will be back to blue seat pre renovation days. With the exception of the Marlins, it has been demonstrated that a five year "window" is opened after winning a World Series, we're still only in Year 2, and it's not until Year 5 that all the benefits of that World Series win are exhausted from the organization. I remember these same arguments being made about letting Ordonez, Carlos Lee and Valentin, and, then, to a lesser extent, Thomas last year, although most knowledgeable Sox fans were ready to let go of Big Frank due to the injury concerns. A 25-30% fall is likely, but there's no way it will be 50% unless the Sox sell off their players and they don't make any moves (that, to the public) appreciably improving their chances for 08. The attendance doesn't really spike until the year following, as Sox fans were skeptics until the summer of 05 hit and the team kept on winning, the same thing happened in 2000. As long as the team is a winning one, White Sox fans have proven they will eventually come out and support it. I'm not sure how many White Sox fans (on the fence) would be brought back "into the fold" if Aaron Rowand was signed, for instance. He's a complementary player, but does he really sell tickets? Not only that, but fans seem to be more in the habit of identifying with position players over pitchers, so, from a purely business/ticket sales standpoint, they should sign Ichiro. Unfortunately, unless Fields and Sweeney become big league regulars, signing Ichiro will only sell tickets for 2-3 months. We can't be competitive having to pay for every player (through minor league talent, money or equivalent talent from our 25 man roster), and KW knows this more than anybody. At the very least, this will be an interesting time period in Sox baseball history. Unfortunately, it has come a year or two earlier than even the most pessimistic fans expected.

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:49 AM) would you rather have... 3B= Fields LF= Mackowiak CF= Owens/Terrero or 3B= Mackowiak LF= Terrero/Fields CF= Owens (when healthy) Owens doesn't have the arm for CF, and he doesn't have the power for a corner OF spot. He's, at best, a fourth OF, at worse, Rodney McCray or a career minor leaguer. Fields will sink or swim at 3B. You just need to leave him there for 4 1/2 months and see what he can, just as the Royals are doing with Alex Gordon. I can't believe it, but I'm 100% behind playing Terrero everyday in CF and seeing what he can, same with Fields. I wouldn't mind seeing Sweeney either, if Dye is traded. KW has to know what he has for 2008, and what trades or moves have to be made to supplement the talent we have coming back. Playing Pods, Cintron, Mack or Erstad doesn't really help us at all, unless we're showcasing them for the highest bidders on the market.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Sox only have good attendance for one reason: winning. I don't see how keeping guys that won't be on the team next year for the entire season will help our ticket sales for next year, etc. Let's face it....we have a ton of bandwagon fans. I love bandwagon fans in baseball more than any sport, because attendance dictates payroll in baseball more than any other sport. What are people going to perceive is happening when we lose Buehrle, Dye, and Iguchi this offseason and replace them with Rowand and a couple of middle-of-the-road players? The 2008 situation has been looming for a few years now, and I just hope KW is more focused on rebuilding this team for the next 5 years instead of trying to fool people that they have a legitimate chance in 2007 or 2008. Even in CLE, which had about a 5 year run of sellouts at Jacobs Fields, that sell-off in 2002/03 (and to a lesser extent, last year) has had long-term ramifications for the fanbase. I was watching them play a game against KC (weeknight) and it looked like a crowd of 10-12,000, at most, those fans are still not wholeheartedly supporting perhaps the best team in the AL. I'd like to think the White Sox have $50 million lying around (from their profits of 05/06) that can be carried forward to remain competitive in 08/09 while getting younger, faster and more athletic. The problem is, the White Sox haven't gone out to "buy" talent at top dollar since the David Wells and Albert Belle signings. It's not the modus operandi of JR...in fact, because of the trading bringing in a lot of the players that won a World Series, it makes it more and more unlikely they would ever go the Cubs' freespending route. And KW probably feels he can "fix" this mess without spending money, because he was able to successfully put together a WS winner at $75 million.

Well, you know that something will come out in the media about the White Sox and KW/JR making a last-ditch attempt to sign MB to an extension, and we probably won't find the exact numbers, we'll be led to believe they made a legit attempt, although all signs point to him leaving. It's not quite so obvious as it was with Ordonez or Durham, but they have to sell Buehrle "high" while the no hitter is still fresh in everyone's minds. No matter what, they need to retool this ballclub. I was thinking, maybe you keep Iguchi and go after Ichiro, but I don't think either one of those guys (especially Ichiro) will be with us next year. OTOH, if they don't have any "name" Free Agents coming in next year and the payroll is scaled down to, say, $75-85 million, they're going to be very hard-pressed to get to 2 million in attendance in 2008. I've seen lots of band-aid solutions (Eckstein, Castillo, Vizquel) but none of those players are going to be part of the future competitive (hopefully) teams in 09 or 2010. If Fields and Sweeney tank this year, you're looking at replacing every position with the exception of C, 1B, DH, SS and possibly 2B (although any moves to improve the middle infield would be great, I'm not sure either will happen). They also will have to decide whether to offer Crede a contract for next year and get nothing at all for him in return...or keep him in 2008 and waste another $5 million, just like Pods' $2.9 million for 07.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:25 AM) reinsdorf and kenny williams must not want to run a business because they're not very professional at all. greg walker must do special favors behind closed doors because it makes zero sense that he still has a job. i see 0 improvement from the hitters, in fact, i think they're getting worse. CAN HIS BEHIND ALREADY!!! what do we have to do? storm the cell??? More likely, it will be the no-shows and boo-birds than "storming the Cell"

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:35 AM) I agree with the title 100%... The team plays the same everyday, and the same exact posts get made everyday... Its like Groundhogs day without the Sonny and Cher. Where's Bill Murray when you need him? Probably in Wrigleyville. The Incredibly Shrinking Prospect List White Sox Baseball: How Not to Hit a Center Cut Fastball These Kids Can Likely Never Play Even MJ Could Hit .300 Against Our Bullpen Destination Unknown Lost, the Baseball Show 27 (Outs) The Chicago Generals

"I still keep positive, but there's no doubt you have to swing the bat. I don't have the answer. You got to ask the hitting coach and players what's going on because I see the same stuff day in and day out. You try to put different stuff and get it going. It gets you a little excited." Ozzie at chicagosports.com Haven't seen a quote like this recently, maybe some heat is starting to find its way to Walker? Sorry if this has already been quoted, I haven't read the whole thread recently.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 07:05 PM) Clayton he was one of the most worthless SS Sox EVER had! Or Caruso after his rookie year. QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:04 AM) Not bad. I'd also go with Ichiro and Castillo 1 and 2. Except my 3rd free agent signing [not mine but what the sox would likely do] is Rowand for CF. And I'd resign Uribe. Ichiro RF Castillo 2b Thome DH Paulie 1B AJ C Rowand CF Fields 3b Sweeney LF Uribe SS Fields looks overmatched now. But another 1/2 year playing everyday will allow him the start 2008 putting up decent numbers. I agree. If the sox can get consistent offense from other spots such as Ichiro and Castillo, they'll be happy with Uribe's defense. I wouldn't be surprised if they "kicked the tires" on Castillo...but I think he's reaching a rapidly declining stage in his career, like Dye perhaps. He's not going to get you more than 20 steals, although the OBP would be much better, and his defense, even on grass/dirt, would be much better than that of Iguchi. If you really want to get Ichiro, I think you keep Iguchi around, although I would peg our chances at getting Ichiro at about 10-15%, because KW will point to the decreasing attendance and expected lack of season ticket renewals and say that he can't go out and spend money he doesn't have.

In early 2006, we would have laughed if Alfonseca had come in to close a game against us...now, it seems like we don't even have a pulse. Oh, how far we've fallen.

Plus tonight, Josh Fields in 2006, 3 for 20, for 2007, he's almost back to .150 this season, at .143.

Over/under on White Sox strikeouts against Hamels tomorrow? 12? 13?

I get the sense they don't want to keep yo-yoing Sweeney. Hasn't he basically been "treading water" since we sent him down? If we're going to bring up Sweeney, we might as well just ditch Mackowiak and let him play in LF everyday, for better or worse. Which means we might as well just DFA Pods and Erstad too. Good throw by Terrero...better arm than BA for sure, or Rowand.

It's actually BUCK-vich, not BOOK-vich, as the ESPN guys are pronouncing it. We might as well bring back Aardsma and MacDougal, unless we're worried they're going to lose what's left of their confidence.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 07:58 PM) We pinch hit a guy who should be on the DL. What the f*** is this, managing by blindfold. He told Ozzie he could play, same with Owens. KW doesn't have any better answers in the minors. Do you PH Andy Gonzalez or Owens there? Seriously?

QUOTE(rafacosta @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 07:38 PM) this is disgusting....why Terrero is not hitting in front of Uribe? Who would have imagined that we would be discussing whether Luis Terrero was our best hitter at any point in this season, or any season?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 07:34 PM) Why do you know that? Because I was a tutor for Roy Marble when he played at Univ. of Iowa...if you remember late 80's Iowa sports. Not sure how old you are. We're officially the worst offense is modern White Sox history. Bring back Carlos Martinez, Calderon, and gasp, Kenny Williams. Heck, I'd take Eddie Williams at 3B at this point, or Chris Brown.

3 for his last 33. Yikes.