caulfield12

QUOTE(greg775 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) I don't have a good feeling about this team. The pitching has been good, but the offense is just like last year's. Sub Erstad for Anderson (this year's automatic out). Pods has a better batting average, but I feel is not a great option on offense and especially defense. Iguchi is hopeless where he is batting in the order. Oz might be too proud to move him back to No. 2. Crede is off to a horrific start and the big boppers aren't hitting the ball out of the park and AJ has been so bad at the plate it is laughable. I'm hoping it's the cold weather. I really think that is a legitimate possibility, but I'm not high on this team. On one side, when it seems like it can't get MUCH worse than this (if you actually watched all of the Saturday and Sunday miasmas), 5-6 doesn't sound bad, you start blaming the weather for the hitting and lowered velocities and all is bliss in Hawk-land. You even start saying, well, we have 3 blown saves already and easily could have won Sunday's game (a ONE hitter!) a we could 7-4 or even 8-3. Of course, we could just as easily be 3-8 or 4-7. This is the same thing fans of the now 3-10 Royals are saying to themselves....well, if I-Rod didn't have 10 of his 11 RBI's, 3 homers and a lifetime batting average of .357 against the Royals (including 48 doubles), well, they'd be in first place, right? OTOH, you watch Verlander, Dice K (Yankees fans, being the mature breed there are, call him "Dice Gay" already) or Felix Hernandez go out there in the same conditions and you wonder if new "leg drive" sessions with Jenks will miraculously bring back his "real" FB...and why can't the Sox, an organization worth hundreds of millions, figure out a way to get Bobby Jenks in throwing shape to start the season, or even ST? QUOTE(greg775 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) I don't have a good feeling about this team. The pitching has been good, but the offense is just like last year's. Sub Erstad for Anderson (this year's automatic out). Pods has a better batting average, but I feel is not a great option on offense and especially defense. Iguchi is hopeless where he is batting in the order. Oz might be too proud to move him back to No. 2. Crede is off to a horrific start and the big boppers aren't hitting the ball out of the park and AJ has been so bad at the plate it is laughable. I'm hoping it's the cold weather. I really think that is a legitimate possibility, but I'm not high on this team. Thought this message from a Yankees' fan was funny! Garland is horrible... This is the worst trade ever! Did you forget that the WhiteSox have Iguchi at 2nd? He isnt as good as Cano but he is a pretty good player. Sheeesh.... Cano is worth a lot more than an average pitcher.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 08:12 PM) Charlotte was postponed. Montgomery @ Birmingham Russell starting, with a so-so beginning to his outing. Winston-Salem @ Myrtle Beach Cassel started: 5.1 IP, 2 R (0 ER) Savannah 6 @ Kannapolis 3 (continued game from yesterday's rainout) Carter 1-3, R Hernandez 2-2, RBI, BB Savannah @ Kannapolis (game 2) Edwards 4.2 IP, 3 R (2 ER) Russell ended up with a very good start. Only one earned run in 5 IP, 6 Hits, 1 ER, 3 BB, 6 K's 2.25 ERA

QUOTE(beautox @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) All i'm saying is there track records are very similar thus far and they're both mid first round selections, Hunter at 20 and Anderson at 15 & Brian still had to learn how to hit with Wood. Even with questions about his real age, at most he's 31/32 alot like Mr. Pujols, he still has plenty of good years infront of him, i can see him getting Beltran type money. His PO are on the decline because people aren't stupid enough to run on him. The phrase "Serious decline" is a huge exaggeration for christ sake he just hit 51HRs in 05 and 41HRs in 06, hes never been one to hit for 300+ average, '06 was one of his better statistical years he posted a 894OPS, third best in his career. I also don't buy into your NL, AL argument for hitters. Gio is top 10 LHP talent, and Russell has made huge strides, they might not be at the front of alot of prospect lists but they've got front end talent, same goes for danks. Your right we could've had Garza but the organization decided to go the safe route with Broadway, theres nothing wrong with that he adds value to our system. like i said a few steps behind the tribe. the yankees aren't going to give up Cano+, where would we play him this year? Hughes hasn't looked so sharp his first couple of outings this season. "Cano is a future multi-time batting champ and Gold Glove winner. He will win at least one MVP. He will spend his entire career with the Yanks. He's untouchable for everyone with the possible exception of Miguel Cabrera." From another Yankees fan... As far as Andruw Jones goes, I was using the term "serious decline" referring to his defense, not his offense. While I do think it makes more sense to give Andruw Jones $45 million over 3 years than Jermaine Dye, I still don't foresee it happening.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) dunno....Brian saves hits and saves runs. What he lacks with the bat he makes up for in the field. He at the very least deserves more of an opportunity than he has been given to show if his approach has improved. If grindErstad was exceeding expectations I can see not pulling him. But Erstad has more at bats that anyone on the team including spring training. He should be the most comfortable at the plate and he's not. Nobody in MLB is comfortable at this point, not with this weather. Runs are down 3 per game. I don't think Uribe will be our best hitter over the course of the entire season. At least, I really hope not...if he is, you can cancel the post-game show.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 10:09 AM) Wait until he's put in a spot in the lineup where they don't want to pitch to him to avoid the top of the lineup coming up before you proclaim him a better hitter than anyone the Sox have had in their history save Frank Thomas... Batting 8th, you're going to see a hellofa lot better pitches to hit than say, batting 2nd. You can follow the Garland for Cano discussion at ht.tp://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-yankees&tid=274926 I don't think any Yankee fans are willing to go for that one, but I'm sure there would be quite a few White Sox posters that would take that deal. Here's a sample... Garland? LOL He's not even in the same league as Cano talent wise, the Sox would have to include 3 of their best pitching prospects along with Garland to make that deal even close to fair. But it's not happening, Cano isn't going anywhere.

QUOTE(joeynach @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 10:09 AM) Yeah we are getting old thats true, but in the AL all teams that compete have older sluggers thats what you need in the AL. I agree that over the next two years we will see some new faces but this is what we have to do. We are not going to become TB or KC with 9 position players u have never heard and other castoffs as fill ins not gonna happen. Dye and Thome will probably leave when their deals are done and thats fine they all look like they are getting near their end. Konerko will be this teams new Frank Thomas as he is signed for 12 Mil per year through 2010, he will become our DH after Thome. As guys get older they get slower, fatter, less productive and more expensive. I think KW has done a good job in getting us the guys we need to become a top of the division competitor now and in 2009. In 2 or 3 years we will still have some older guys, all teams do, but I fully expect a younger, quicker, more dynamic team by then. Remember you are still going to have your proven guys in there anchor things down while the talented young ones come up and learn and improve. Konerko till 2010, Thome till 2009, Thornton till 2010, Macdougal till 2009, Jenks till 2010, Vazquez till 2009, AJ till 2008. Aside from those guys you will probably see a few free agents mixed into a field of Josh Fields, Ryan Sweeney, Brian Anderson, Gio Gonzalez, Boone Logan, John Danks, Adam Russell, Lance Broadway, etc. I could see a Luis Castillo at 2B or maybe a Carl Crawford or Alex Rios in the OF. I think KW would trade Tampa Bay's position players for ours, straight up, and it would only take a heartbeat or two. Crawford, Baldelli, Dukes, D. Young, Iwamura, Cantu, Jonny Gomes, BJ Upton, Wigginton Their only weaknesses are at C, 1B and SS with Zobrist. KW and OG would love to have those players, because he would have another $25-35 million to spend on pitching, which is usually the heart of any championship team. Combine their line-up with our starting pitching and bullpen and they would be the Cleveland Indians of the mid-90's with slightly better pitching (although Colon, Wright and Nagy were nothing to sneeze about). QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 10:09 AM) Wait until he's put in a spot in the lineup where they don't want to pitch to him to avoid the top of the lineup coming up before you proclaim him a better hitter than anyone the Sox have had in their history save Frank Thomas... Batting 8th, you're going to see a hellofa lot better pitches to hit than say, batting 2nd. Obviously, Shoeless Joe Jackson's average was, what, .351? I'm talking about the "modern" generation of White Sox players, since the 1980's. If he was batting 2nd in our line-up, he would get a ton of pitches to hit. Which is why the Yankees would never make that deal.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 09:45 AM) Robinson Cano had a little help from the BABIP fairy last year... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6204 How many players have we ever had with a .318 career average, with the exception of Thomas?

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 09:12 AM) I think you overrate Cano, I do not see multiple batting titles in his future. That being said, Garland for Cano would be good for our organization, of course. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/jackie/news/story?id=2836867 Robinson Cano closing in on Yankee greatness...

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 08:55 AM) Garland for Cano + a young SP? Even though it's normally a bad idea for teams to trade pitching for position players, I would be shocked if the Yankees would give us Cano for Garland, let alone Cano and another SP or prospect. Interestingly enough, the Yankees are starting a AA pitcher (not Hughes) named Chase Wright that they're also really high on. They have Pavano, Wang and Mussina all ailing right now, but not major injuries. I think Cano will win 2-3 batting titles over his career, and he's a bargain for the Yankees right now, on a team with a huge payroll that still has seeminingly insurmountable starting pitching issues. Cashman would pass on that deal, just as the Astros' Purpura took Jennings over Garland.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 08:01 AM) Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't see the Sox dropping out of contention, in fact, I have a good feeling about this team. The pitching has been solid, and the offense has sucked. One game under .500 at this point in the season with this schedule, I'm not ready to write the season off quite yet. I think the Twins, Indians, Tigers and Sox all have strengths and weaknesses. I don't see why we as Sox fans, especially now that it's getting backed up with ratings and box office, we can't expect KW to take a Braves type approach and mix quality FA signings/trades for veterans with young players and compete for an extended period of time (and no, I don't expect the Sox to rip off 10+ division titles, but be competitive). If the Sox really want to shoot themselves in the foot with the newly regained fanbase, they would cut payroll after this year. What type of message would that send if the Sox get 3m or near it again this year and let everyone walk?!? IMO it would take them years to recover from that PR hit. I'm usually not an optimist or just put blind faith in people, but KW won a WS, something that hasn't happened in a town with 2 major league teams since 1917. I will give KW the benefit of the doubt. He's not an idiot, he has some good young players and a top 10 payroll. I think he has them in a position to compete this year, and I trust he has a plan to keep them competitive. If you subtract Buehrle, Crede and Dye, you are down by $22 million dollars, more or less. Since our "actual" payroll figure is pretty close to $102 million, that's an $80 million dollar payroll right there. I don't think anyone would be shocked if the first two were gone, but I think the "expectation" is that some kind of move would be made to replace the offensive output of a Top 5 MVP candidate (especially when Sweeney, Anderson and Owens all profile as extra base and not power hitters right now). I'm not sure many would be shocked if Fields replaced Crede, either.

QUOTE(beautox @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 05:28 AM) I posted this over at SSS and firefox just crashed on a post that i was working on -->FF Me If we keep Ozzie, then i could see Brian being shipped off to the braves at the end of the season along with some pitching for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, hes blocked by McCann/Pena at C, and Thorman at 1B. Jones is going to hit the open market this upcoming offseason and they have no one that can replace his glove or come close to his power potential. I still think Brian becomes the new Torii Hunter in the very near future, their milb and mlb records are strikingly similar. Also Hall and AJ will be out by 08, that would give Saltalamacchia a season and a half at AAA, and by that time most of our position players will have turned over. Ozzie and KW love Ryan and he has been playing CF for the Knights. I trust the scouts and the history of this game when they say his power will come, and that he should have prototypical RF pop. Since Ryan is a gifted athlete that takes care of one spot in the OF. If we're out of contention i expect Mark, Jermaine and Joe to be moved. For Example: Brandon Wood of the angels has been moved to 3B but hes still a year and a half to two years away and i wouldn't be surprised if the angels didn't rush him like Kotchman. Currently Izturis is playing 3B but their defense is pretty bad and they still need people to protect Vlad; Joe could provide some much needed defense and pop to that line up. Their MI(Izturis, Cabrera, Aybar, Figgins, Kendrick) and OF(Anderson, Matthews, Vlad, Figgins) is stacked. So i could see SS Erick Aybar or SS/2B Sean Rodriguez and OF Reggie Willits coming our way, hes only 25 and he never repeated a level on his way to the show, hes currently their 5th OFer. Our FO has shown they're not afraid to take "late bloomers". Almost every team is in need of pitching so there are alot of possibilities where Mark could go and those that don't need pitching need a bat like Dye, for example the dodgers. Aside from trade speculation i could see the sox going after Andruw Jones this offseason. he allows us to sustain production in our line up, get a bit younger and keep our defense at a premium especially since they saved all that money from the Garcia trade and are most likely going to let Mark and Dye walk. Another thing to note is since they traded for Danks, does that mean the FO is willing to deal with Boras? lets hope so. Lastly another person i wouldn't mind the sox trying to get is Matt Murton his defense would be better in LF than the slop we've seen these past 3 years, and hes only 25 and just coming into his prime, but hes rotting on the cubs bench. They could use someone like Mackowiak. Unlike flash and a few others here that paint our farm and team with future disparity in the central, i think we've got a good foundation. People are correct in calling the central an arms race. Javy's contract is fair value and has to potential to be a steal, the very least it will be easy to move and he still has time to live up to his potential and if he does we have an ace, if not we've got a solid mid/back of the rotation guy that'll give you 200IP. Garland though at time inconsistent should give you 200 league average innings; thats nothing to scoff, the yankees would kill for someone like that right now, when hes on it looks like hes trowing bowling balls up there. Honestly i wouldn't mind the sox extending him again. Mark is as good as gone. Jose should be moved within this upcoming offseason or next i highly doubt he finishes out his new contract here, it should be easy to move. I also think Masset/Haeger/Floyd/Broadway/Gio/Russell/Egbert/McCullough force KW's hand sooner than later. Danks is everything i could ask for from a 5th starter this year, yeah he gives up the HR but he doesn't get shaken and he does attack the zone, he'll take his lumps but when he starts getting that curve over and keeping that FB down he'll be even better. As you mentioned the BP is good, if they keep attacking the zone and trusting their stuff its right up there with the angels and twins pen. If jenks falters there are two people down there that can close(Mike and David), and Bobby can still be a very effective MR or trading piece. Also we've got quality up and coming arms (Logan, Perez, Day, Long). Lastly our pen is locked up till 2010 and beyond and its cheap and young. Lets take a look at the central as a whole Twins: They won't keep Santana and Nathan. Boof is giving up the long ball at a rate that would make McCarthy laugh. This is Liriano's second trip to the DL once with the giants and now with the twins, There is no guaranteeing that he will come back healthy and effective, none. there prospects much like ours are just that, prospects. Hunter is gone after this season they'll miss his production and glove and they have no one to step in, Luis Castillo is also a FA. Parmelee is going to be a corner OFer and he is a ways away. Tigers: They've got 2 legit aces and the possibility for a third. the back end of their BP looks good with Zumaya/Rodney/Ledezma. they gave up alot to get Shef, i think that will come back to haunt them a bit, and their BP is third best in the division. Positional player wise going forward there are alot of question marks, 90% of them are on the wrong side of 30. Maybin should move Granderson over to LF in the future but hes striking out nearly 50% of the time right now. Cleveland: Sabathia needs to stay off the DL and he keeps getting bigger, hes also a going to be a FA in '08. Hafner has broken off talks with the tribe for the season, the longer they wait the more its going to cost them. Their bullpen isn't as bad as many make it out to be, the back end needs to improve drastically though Joe Borowski? Ramon Ortiz? thats not going to be an easy fix. They've got plenty of young awesome positional players and more coming up the ranks. I think marte is a total bust. Adam Miller needs to continue to stay healthy. A ton of talent up and down that line up. There offense will score a ton of runs, their interior defense though is very suspect. rotation looks good from a potential stand point, but then again so does the sox. i don't think v-mart sticks behind the dish, and thats an area they need to address; Max Ramirez looks good but he is going to have to improve with the glove. The tribe will be near the top of the central for a while Kansas City: Remind me alot of the tribe but a few steps behind. Zach looks sharp, and Gil Meche should be decent. Hochevar had an injury scare, and they've got Lumsden. Their BP is in shambles all though Soria looks like a nice find. they're going to need some help at MI and 1B, though there OF looks realy solid(butler/dejesus/Teahen) and possibly a C but buck should be entering his prime years, sweeney is going to need to be replaced. Looks like dayton moore is building off the foundation laid before him. jim thome @ 21 yrs old Torii Hunter=Anderson? We'll see, Anderson should have been at least a year and a half ahead of Hunter in his development, because he was supposed to be a more polished prospect (coming from the Pac 10) than a high school kid from Arkansas. KW won't touch Jones....he has a ton of mileage on him, there are still questions about his real age, all of his defense ratings (PO's/season, Zone Rating) have been in serious decline over the last 5-6 years. KW wants to get young, not older/aging and more expensive. Plus he would be leaving a "fastball league" for the AL, where he would struggle to adjust offensively for at least 6 months. It seems like no matter who the Twins throw out there (Ford/Rabe, etc.), they get the job done. Still, right now, Baker/Slowey/Garza profile a lot better than our pitching prospects. We could have had Garza and picked Broadway instead. Borowski will be a Todd Jones-like closer who simply gets the job done. Hernandez will be a ? mark, but Cabrera and Betancourt look to be very good, especially Cabrera (he's our version of Aardsma so far). They just signed Grudzielanek to an extension. Shealy at 1B is a huge question. I wouldn't be surprised if Butler, Costa or Huber moved over there. They also have Gathright. They can trade Odalis Perez, Elarton, Hudson, etc., and get something back in return.

QUOTE(beautox @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 05:28 AM) I posted this over at SSS and firefox just crashed on a post that i was working on -->FF Me If we keep Ozzie, then i could see Brian being shipped off to the braves at the end of the season along with some pitching for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, hes blocked by McCann/Pena at C, and Thorman at 1B. Jones is going to hit the open market this upcoming offseason and they have no one that can replace his glove or come close to his power potential. I still think Brian becomes the new Torii Hunter in the very near future, their milb and mlb records are strikingly similar. Also Hall and AJ will be out by 08, that would give Saltalamacchia a season and a half at AAA, and by that time most of our position players will have turned over. Ozzie and KW love Ryan and he has been playing CF for the Knights. I trust the scouts and the history of this game when they say his power will come, and that he should have prototypical RF pop. Since Ryan is a gifted athlete that takes care of one spot in the OF. If we're out of contention i expect Mark, Jermaine and Joe to be moved. For Example: Brandon Wood of the angels has been moved to 3B but hes still a year and a half to two years away and i wouldn't be surprised if the angels didn't rush him like Kotchman. Currently Izturis is playing 3B but their defense is pretty bad and they still need people to protect Vlad; Joe could provide some much needed defense and pop to that line up. Their MI(Izturis, Cabrera, Aybar, Figgins, Kendrick) and OF(Anderson, Matthews, Vlad, Figgins) is stacked. So i could see SS Erick Aybar or SS/2B Sean Rodriguez and OF Reggie Willits coming our way, hes only 25 and he never repeated a level on his way to the show, hes currently their 5th OFer. Our FO has shown they're not afraid to take "late bloomers". Almost every team is in need of pitching so there are alot of possibilities where Mark could go and those that don't need pitching need a bat like Dye, for example the dodgers. Aside from trade speculation i could see the sox going after Andruw Jones this offseason. he allows us to sustain production in our line up, get a bit younger and keep our defense at a premium especially since they saved all that money from the Garcia trade and are most likely going to let Mark and Dye walk. Another thing to note is since they traded for Danks, does that mean the FO is willing to deal with Boras? lets hope so. Lastly another person i wouldn't mind the sox trying to get is Matt Murton his defense would be better in LF than the slop we've seen these past 3 years, and hes only 25 and just coming into his prime, but hes rotting on the cubs bench. They could use someone like Mackowiak. Unlike flash and a few others here that paint our farm and team with future disparity in the central, i think we've got a good foundation. People are correct in calling the central an arms race. Javy's contract is fair value and has to potential to be a steal, the very least it will be easy to move and he still has time to live up to his potential and if he does we have an ace, if not we've got a solid mid/back of the rotation guy that'll give you 200IP. Garland though at time inconsistent should give you 200 league average innings; thats nothing to scoff, the yankees would kill for someone like that right now, when hes on it looks like hes trowing bowling balls up there. Honestly i wouldn't mind the sox extending him again. Mark is as good as gone. Jose should be moved within this upcoming offseason or next i highly doubt he finishes out his new contract here, it should be easy to move. I also think Masset/Haeger/Floyd/Broadway/Gio/Russell/Egbert/McCullough force KW's hand sooner than later. Danks is everything i could ask for from a 5th starter this year, yeah he gives up the HR but he doesn't get shaken and he does attack the zone, he'll take his lumps but when he starts getting that curve over and keeping that FB down he'll be even better. As you mentioned the BP is good, if they keep attacking the zone and trusting their stuff its right up there with the angels and twins pen. If jenks falters there are two people down there that can close(Mike and David), and Bobby can still be a very effective MR or trading piece. Also we've got quality up and coming arms (Logan, Perez, Day, Long). Lastly our pen is locked up till 2010 and beyond and its cheap and young. Lets take a look at the central as a whole Twins: They won't keep Santana and Nathan. Boof is giving up the long ball at a rate that would make McCarthy laugh. This is Liriano's second trip to the DL once with the giants and now with the twins, There is no guaranteeing that he will come back healthy and effective, none. there prospects much like ours are just that, prospects. Hunter is gone after this season they'll miss his production and glove and they have no one to step in, Luis Castillo is also a FA. Parmelee is going to be a corner OFer and he is a ways away. Tigers: They've got 2 legit aces and the possibility for a third. the back end of their BP looks good with Zumaya/Rodney/Ledezma. they gave up alot to get Shef, i think that will come back to haunt them a bit, and their BP is third best in the division. Positional player wise going forward there are alot of question marks, 90% of them are on the wrong side of 30. Maybin should move Granderson over to LF in the future but hes striking out nearly 50% of the time right now. Cleveland: Sabathia needs to stay off the DL and he keeps getting bigger, hes also a going to be a FA in '08. Hafner has broken off talks with the tribe for the season, the longer they wait the more its going to cost them. Their bullpen isn't as bad as many make it out to be, the back end needs to improve drastically though Joe Borowski? Ramon Ortiz? thats not going to be an easy fix. They've got plenty of young awesome positional players and more coming up the ranks. I think marte is a total bust. Adam Miller needs to continue to stay healthy. A ton of talent up and down that line up. There offense will score a ton of runs, their interior defense though is very suspect. rotation looks good from a potential stand point, but then again so does the sox. i don't think v-mart sticks behind the dish, and thats an area they need to address; Max Ramirez looks good but he is going to have to improve with the glove. The tribe will be near the top of the central for a while Kansas City: Remind me alot of the tribe but a few steps behind. Zach looks sharp, and Gil Meche should be decent. Hochevar had an injury scare, and they've got Lumsden. Their BP is in shambles all though Soria looks like a nice find. they're going to need some help at MI and 1B, though there OF looks realy solid(butler/dejesus/Teahen) and possibly a C but buck should be entering his prime years, sweeney is going to need to be replaced. Looks like dayton moore is building off the foundation laid before him. jim thome @ 21 yrs old

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:12 AM) The problem is that good-hitting SSs are exceedingly rare. So their cost in terms of salary and players is usually more than they're worth. anyway, who do you have in mind? Guys - don't truncate the last word. I said "Carl Everett TYPE" meaning someone with pop off of the bench. Fields doesn't bring the D. Thome is the slow slugger type - never my cup of tea; but he may be hard to jettison. Also, the Royals might try to dump Mike Sweeney and his $11 million contract onto the market...so Thome is a more attractive option than that, because he's lefthanded and not so injury prone, despite being the older player. Konerko has 6 teams he can be traded to, mostly on the West Coast. Generally, the best idea is to have 8-9 Restricted players (in their first three years of service), 5-6 arbitration eligible (years 4-6) and then around 11 FA's. We're actually not TOO far off, but most of our veterans (with the exception of Erstad) are quite expensive. In this group, you have Thome, Konerko, Vazquez, Dye, Erstad, Iguchi and Contreras. YEAR 6/7 AJ, Garland and Buehrle 5 Crede, Uribe, Mack and Toby Hall 4 Pods, Ozuna, MacDougal, Cintron Of this group, you can easily imagine Buehrle, Pods and Crede being gone after this season. Mack, Ozuna and Cintron are ?'s. The most secure are probably AJ, Garland (through 08), Uribe and MacDougal. Restricted: Thornton, Jenks, Sisco, Aardsma, Anderson, Masset and Danks You look at this list and notice the core of our youth is on the pitching front (5/6th's of our pen, with the exception of MacDougal), which is a good thing. And it's easy to imagine moving Fields and Sweeney up onto this list as well.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 09:30 PM) He was keeping his changeup and curve ball down. I haven't watched him yet this season, but there are 2 things that killed him with us; when he wasn't throwing his changeup or when he wasn't keeping things buried in the dirt. He has a 2 seam fastball that is a decent pitch, and a 93 mph fastball or so, but that 4 seamer is pretty darn straight. His curve ball though was a nice big overhand pitch, and his changeup when he kept it down was devastating. But if he wasn't throwing his changeup for strikes, hitters could just sit on the fastball or the curve and drive it, and if he wasn't keeping the changeup or curve down, they were basically meatballs. He needs to keep the ball down. End of story. If you look at his splits, you'll notice he's always been much more effective against lefthanders. Part of that might have to do with the fact that he does tend to elevate and get strikeouts with his flat fastball riding up high in the zone...whereas most lefties have a lower sweet spot in the zone. I think Brandon will be fine, if he can get ahead in the count and locate his offspeed stuff. Otherwise, he's in a world of hurt. Three homers in Seattle, that's not exactly a hitter's paradise in April. It seems that we got a pitcher similar to McCarthy in Masset and Danks for good measure...the most important asset in baseball, a talented/composed/affordable left-handed starter.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 11:11 PM) I personally think Sweeney hasn't the highest potential of the three. If Sweeney can live up to his potential, Fields as well, or at least be able to put up good number for a middle of the order guy, and have Anderson put up Torii Hunter-esque numbers, that'd be great. And, I think PK has several more good years left in him. The two MOST likely everyday players to keep through at least 2008 are Konerko and Thome (for reasons already discussed), of the veterans. Contreras is likely to be the hardest of the pitchers to deal, but he has a reasonable contract and I'm sure somebody (especially in the NL) would take a chance on getting a season or two out of him (see El Duque). Then you add in Uribe, Sweeney, Fields and Anderson to the mix. That means you have to come up with a new LF, 2B and C. Not quite so dramatic. And I'm not ruling out Iguchi or Hall/AJ or even Ozuna/Mackowiak/Owens, but I think KW knows he needs to find more youth and athleticism and I think he will try to rebuild through those three positions, in all likelihood.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 02:27 PM) The only part I really agree with is that I dont see a "sell-off" happening, just more of a drop-off to the 80 mill. range. Anywho, on your points: First: Thome has a no-trade clause and probably will only move if the Sox convince him that they are rebuilding and probably wont compete, and he has too much desire to win a championship. Furthermore, Dye is an average fielder atbest now, he looks really slow and his age is definitely showing. As much as I would like to see him stay, I just dont think the money he will recieve will be worth it. And yes, Thome is slow, but produces a ton of RBIs every year, and gives us that great 1-2 punch with PK Second: Resign Crede? We'll have to see at the end of the year, I really feel that Fields will be ready and do an admirable job next year filling in for him. Crede is a health risk, plus we could get some very nice prospects in return to help us out while still having Fields keeping the dropoff to a mininum. Uribe to me deserves only a 1 or 2 year extension, he needs to be more consistent at the plate, otherwise I wouldnt mind trading Crede for a SS prospect (and more). Beurhle is not worth the salary he will be making as a #3 pitcher, I would much rather sign a filler #3 for much less and hope prospects will continue to produce at our top levels and eventually the bigs. Third: I wouldnt mind trading Crede for a SS who could lead off (and more like I said before). But Fields should be a good player costing us much less than Crede, while Crede will bring more in return in a trade most likely too (if he has a good, healthy year). And I feel that the Sox should be keeping as much of their pitching prospects as possible, in case of injury etc., plus with contracts like they are, we can afford to lose a Beurhle etc. Fourth: Carl Everret??? Oh God, the horror. I don't know, sometime I think we tend to overcredit Carl Everett because he was here when we won it all and Thome wasn't. He was very unproductive in the 2nd half of 05 and had to be dropped in the order. We had Gload and now Erstad that can play 1B and the outfield, as well as Pods. What we need is a player that has a lot of the positive qualities that Everett had, without the baggage taht went along with him. Thome, Konerko, Dye, Erstad....they all tend to be the strong, silent, lead by example types. AJ is our only crazy person in the clubhouse, I think we need some more (besides Ozzie) to shake things up. Our ballclub might even be TOO nice, TOO soft. They respect each other too much, and there aren't enough of the kind of players who will get in someone's face if things aren't done the way they are supposed to be done.

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) Oh look, Joe finally showing signs of life. The first ball called a strike was low and he was already pissed...DJ didn't even know the count...then the ball he was called out on was clearly inside, so I can't blame him really.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) He's got 56 pitches through 5 innings. It's quite possible. Double or single for Donnie Garko?

QUOTE(bmags @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:21 PM) wow...the indians announcers are basically laughing at our lineup I like the girl holding the "Grady Stole My Girlfriend" sign Grady could probably go up in the stands and it wouldn't matter the way the White Sox offense is going, like Satchel Paige or the King and His Court. I wonder if the White Sox would have any discernible reaction if Sabathia told all of the outfielders to stay on the bench in front of the blowdryers next inning?

QUOTE(Felix @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) I'm listening actually, like I have the entire year. And yes, I know we can't hit lefties, but is that any reason to give up on a team in the fourth f***ing inning? The game goes 9 innings and the Indians have an abysmal bullpen... it's not over yet. Their bullpen is much better than last year. Unlike the Sox, they don't have three blown saves already this season. Our bullpen looks a lot better on paper than in reality right now. Betancourt is always solid, Mastny has been a good find, Borowski has done what he's supposed to do...they're not bad. Cabrera was absolutely nasty against us the other day.

QUOTE(SoxGovernment @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) wow im listening to the indians broadcast and there was a commercial for tequila and it said "if you want to dance like a retard then drink tequila" isn't the political correctness sensor going off? if Tiger gets criticized for saying he's acting like a "spazz" out there...well, whatever

QUOTE(zenryan @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) Jose is a f***ing joke. when he pitches against a team that cant hit then he dominates. against teams that can hit, he pitches scared Last time I checked, the A's and the team he dominated last year (on the road, no less, in a critical series), namely the Tigers...after his injury even...if they played the way they're supposed to on defense, he would have 50-60 pitches and he wouldn't have to be careful with Sizemore or Hafner. This game feels a little bit like the Wednesday game against Oakland now. Whatever happens, we're pretty lucky to win one of three in CLE the way we're playing.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:11 PM) The the count from 04 has returned Well, I don't think any pitcher has watched 6 outs behind them blown in four innings and simply cruised through that game. One or two errors, sure, but three? In four innings?

QUOTE(Felix @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) Reading these posts would lead one to believe the score was 25-0 Indians. Guys, its 1-0. I know the offense hasn't looked good (well, I know they haven't sounded good), but the game is still incredibly early and we are down only one run. Just wait. If we get out of this inning unscathed, we might actually win the game. But we're in trouble now with Sizemore up there.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ Apr 15, 2007 -> 12:55 PM) 38-23 Bulls Crede just did something I was accusing BA of doing, lol.