caulfield12

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:44 PM) I beg to differ, that wasn't a bad pitch, just a great job of hitting by one of the best the past decade. Let's not make Damon into a HOF player. He's a very solid major leaguer, but the fact he played for Boston and NY made him seem "better" than reality...

Cintron's lack of arm strength is killing us on that play. Goodbye, lead...hello, bullpen disaster.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:40 PM) Classic Walkerball by Dye. Hips fly open, about a week early* swing, roll over to 3rd on the ground. That is textbook Greg Walker teaching at work. What do you do when you replace Walker and they're still hitting the same way, because that's what they are, or they're just losing it? Is this going to be 7 or 8 games in a row not getting his 500th?

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:15 PM) How exactly did Dye git to third from first on a grounder to the shortstop? A-Rod came all the way across to SS on a grounder between them, and they were playing AJ to pull on the infield already. The ball went to SS, and A-Rod was too slow getting back to bag, pitcher and catcher couldn't make it over there in time either.

Sabathia taking a 1-0 shutout (at least) into the 9th versus KC. Royals are looking really putrid, Gordon might need to go down to Omaha, I doubt they let Borowski get a sniff of this game. Rob, thanks for the "FREE A/C" night at the Cell, it's already cold enough there.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:03 PM) side note: damaso marte sporting a 0.98 ERA with 19 K's in 18 IP Unfortunately, we need righties...and does anyone care what stats you rack up in Pittsburgh? Those stats are as relevant as what MacDougal or Sisco did for the Royals.

Cintron can BARELY throw the ball across the diamond.

This team has ADD. When you get excited, they let you down. When you are about to give up, they give you a whimper of hope.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 07:55 PM) So...who's next on the AAA bandwagon to come up and play in the outfield? Ernie Young? Maybe we can bring back Ruben Rivera.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) bulls***, I hate this line of thinking. Silva and Nathan they didn't develop, but it seems to me that it's quite obvious that the Twins likely lack scouts in Latin America, so instead they see these players that other teams are signing and then target them in trades. Santana was a Rule 5 pick; had he stayed with Houston, do you think there's any chance in hell he's the pitcher he is today? Without tutoring from the minor league pitching coaches, do you think Liriano comes up and puts up an ERA of under 2? Kyle Lohse was traded when he was 20 years old in High A ball. The Twins developed those players just as the White Sox developed Neal Cotts and Jon Garland. Sure, they acquired them in trades, but they aren't the pitchers they are today without the White Sox minor league instructors. If Garland had stayed with the Cubs, it's quite possible they would have attempted to turn him into a power arm and that his arm would be dead by now. Aside from that, how about Juan Rincon? Eddie Guardado? JC Romero? Pat Neshek? LaTroy Hawkins? Those are 5 more that have come up and had great success. Jacque Jones, Corey Koskie, Cristian Guzman, Matthew LeCroy, Doug Mientkiewicz, and AJ Pierzynski all came up together through the Twins system, and all have played important roles on teams - usually starting - with the exceptions of Koskie, due to a concussion, Guzman, due to a shoulder (but he's back and starting), and Matthew LeCroy. Can the White Sox top that? And that's not including Punto, Bartlett, David Ortiz, Mohr, Ford, Kielty, Kubel, Mays, etc. The Twins, by and far, have superior developmental and scouting systems than do the White Sox. The last time the White Sox finished in last place was around like 88 I think, so that's basically 20 years or solid baseball. Okay, but we also had Grilli, Cotts, Garland, Guerrier, Majewski, Rauch, Scott Eyre, Joe Valentine, Rocky Biddle, Frank Francisco, Josh Rupe, Kip Wells, Josh Fogg...it's not as if we HAVEN'T produced or nurtured any pitchers that had major league impacts, although most have been disappointing with the Sox.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) You need a passport to fly to Canada now. It isn't like it used to be. Especially if you have that particulary virulent strain of TB!

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) Whats that old Styx song, Too Much Time on My Hands. The scenario you present can and likely will change a thousand times between now and then. You're kidding yourself if you think KW doesn't have a board with the FA classes of 09 and 10 on his board and his selected targets. He has to know that it's possible Fields, Anderson, Owens and Sweeney might all fail, so there has to be some type of back-up plan in place (whether you want to call it Plan B, Plan C or Plan D).

QUOTE(AirScott @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:58 AM) I don't see the point in making the big splash deals because these Sox aren't that far off. The hitting WILL come around, just because it really doesn't make any sense for it not to -- with the exception of Crede and Uribe (and Dye due to injuries) have done nothing but hit their throughout entire careers. Really, it doesn't make any sense for these guys not to come around. Anywho, I keep throwing out the Reds' David Weathers as one guy to acquire, for starters because the Reds suck so much that he may be made available. He's 37 years old with 16 years experience, which is more than our entire bullpen has combined. While he's been a major league reliever for 16 years, nobody in our pen has done it for more than two years, if that. With him (or any proven veteran reliever who might be available via trade), there would be more clear-cut roles and situations that we'd bring guys in, and we wouldn't have to read these words about Ryan Bukvich and Bret Prinz (this from today's Sun-Times): "...both will be expected to perform in late-inning clutch situations." Whenever you pay for saves (in Weathers' case, 11), you're going to pay through the teeth, even when they're recorded by a 37 year-old or Al Reyes in TB. Maybe it's worth it to give them Lance Broadway, to heck if I know. I would almost rather rely on Aardsma or MacDougal or a player we traded Mac for (change of scenery) rather than dealing prospects for Weathers. Here's another issue with Weathers... 2007, his ERA at home (a park that plays similar to Comiskey) is 6.10 versus 2.65 on the road Small sample size, right? Well, in 2005, 06, and 07 (this is relevant since he's been a Red the entire time)... 4.72 HOME ERA versus 3.07 on the ROAD Which, when you consider the discrepancy in talent between AL and NL, equals, at best, David Riske, and, at worst, a 5+ ERA and the loss of some starting pitching depth. Here's another thought to be concerned about... Lefty Tyler Lumsden got his third straight win Saturday in Omaha’s victory. He improved to 5-3 after allowing one run and three hits in six innings. He is 3-0 with a 2.43 ERA in his last five starts.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:58 AM) Wow, some people are even looking past next year. You really have to...especially since we have a HUGE gap in our position prospects from the higher levels to the lower levels. The only viable way to fill those needs is by trade, unless we want to see Valido, Getz, Gonzalez, Ozuna, etc., playing middle infield. In that case, it would be really bleak, we'd bottom out and get our first Top 10 draft pick in 17 years, in which case there's a 75% chance (unless we called Larry Himes up) that we'd make the wrong call anyway. Maybe someone like Shelby can emerge as a starting 2B, but I think they have him playing OF right now, even though he was drafted as an infielder. Cunningham, Carter and Allen are nowhere close to being middle infielders, unfortunately. In fact, just go up the middle, Catcher/SS/2B/CF. Nobody. Donny Lucy MIGHT be a back-up catcher in the mold of a Chris Stewart in a couple of seasons. If he has the same career as Wiki Gonzalez, he'd be lucky.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:22 AM) Phew. That was a stupid idea to begin with. Comparing 07 offense to some of the worst Sox teams of my lifetime... 1986 644 runs scored (72-90, the preseason BP projection) 1988 631 runs scored (71-90) 1989 693 runs score (69-92)

Welcome to the Class of FA's who will be available after next season (BLEAK) OUTFIELDERS 30 or UNDER (where you might see a Dye swap, but not to TB) Endy Chavez Luis Matos Larry Bigbie *Pat Burrell *Carl Crawford *Craig Monroe *R. Baldelli Kevin Mench *Willy Mo Pena *Juan Rivera (recovering from broken leg) The two big names will be V. Guerrero and Manny Ramirez. 2B (to replace Iguchi) Jamey Carroll (too old?) Ray Durham (see above) *Mark Ellis *Orlando Hudson SS (to replace Uribe, a little more promising here) Angel Berroa Alex Cora (included because of Joey's presence) *Orlando Cabrera Adam Everett *Rafael Furcal Felipe Lopez *Edgar Renteria CATCHER (bleak, bleak, bleak...we need to produce one every generation! Maybe every White Sox fan out there needs to start training their sons to be catchers?) *Estrada *Redmond *Ross (CIN) Varitek *Vance Wilson Greg Zaun Henry Blanco Adam Melhuse Sal Fasano WHITE SOX FA'S after 2008 Cintron, Crede, Garland, Hall, Ozuna (if he makes it back), AJ, Pods, Thome

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) And he still needs to work on his defense as well as shortening his swing. Bringing Fields up to replace Crede should be the LAST move that's made. Not the first. This team isn't losing games because of Joe Crede. It's losing games because of Jermaine Dye/Paul Konerko/the bullpen/Thome being injured. You don't replace stellar defensive players making reasonable salaries as your first attempt to shake things up. You just don't. Not losing much? You can screw up his value by bringing him up to early and having him suck. You can also ruin the kid's confidence by throwing him in the deep end too early. Let the kid develop where he belongs. He isn't the savior. See Alex Gordon for an example, he was SUPPOSED to be ROY and the best 3B prospect in all of baseball, along with Braun I guess.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) Now I'm actually kinda worried that this trade might happen. Sounds like the organization is pissed that Dye said baseball is a business, and if he gets traded, he'll go play hard somewhere else. Only in this organization can someone say the politically correct thing....and get in hot water for it. With the irony that KW, Guillen and Reinsdorf are about the most politically incorrect. Over the years, we've parted with Durham, Foulke, McDowell, Howry, McCarthy, Widger, Wunsch...some, if not all, were pretty outspoken as players and-or as union reps. So to sum it up, "love" Ozzie speak, as long as it's not from the players themselves.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) I'd like to add. Who the hell was our "long man" in '05? Did we not win 99 games? Who the hell was our "long man" in '06? Did we not win 90 games? It seems to me that carrying a "long man" for the sake of carrying a "long man" is part of the problem, not the solution. If you've got 3 or 4 respectable bullpen arms, and you need 6 to fill out a major league bullpen, what is the point in carrying #7? One game against the Cubs makes you a starter? How Felix Diaz these days? In 2005, it was essentially Vizcaino. Although I don't think he ever went up into that 3-4-5 innings range. Last year, McCarthy.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) Maybe we can just pitch Masset when the wind is blowing in 20 mph or it's 20 degrees out. Well, you can say the same for Haeger and Phillips, so that leaves, MAYBE, Broadway or Floyd, possibly Egbert, although the Sox don't usually bring up "non-stuff" guys all the way from AA. About the only exception was Buehrle, maybe? Yep, at age 21, MB jumped from BIRM to CHW without going the Charlotte route.

It's because he's the best candidate in the organization at "long man." If not for the second game of the season against CLE and the Cubs' Sunday sweep avoider, he would be history too. The only solution is to flip-flop him with Gavin Floyd, Lance Broadway, Heath Phillips or Charles Haeger. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't. He has definitely shown some flashes, though.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:26 AM) Rule 5 pick from the Marlins, IIRC Not exactly... Santana was signed by the Houston Astros as an undrafted free agent in 1995 but remained in Venezuela, where he was named the Tovar Mérida Athlete of the Year in 1999. Later that year, he was selected by the Florida Marlins from Houston in the 1999 rule 5 draft and then traded to the Minnesota Twins for minor leaguer Jared Camp. wikipedia.com

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Don't misquote me about Dye. I said that they should have extended him early in the 2006 season when he showed that 2005 was not a fluke and they could have signed him for much less and shorter term - say 3 / $ 30. It doesn't look that great now but I could live with that. They would be down to needing to acquire only 2 more outfielders for next year. Anyway, you can say what you want but the Twins drafting and payer development FAR exceeds the White Sox in success. Not even close. This year is the perfect example. The offense blows at just about every position and the Sox have NO help to bring up. The bullpen is a disaster and the Sox have NO help to bring up. Why have a minor league system if it's worthless ? But the Twins have about the same chance of making the playoffs as the Sox....slim and none. If you were Dye and essentially had a "Andre Dawson/1987" bargain-basement contract for three seasons (in which you made about as much as Bobby Abreu will for 2008), why would you not see what's out there on the open market? The team's reward to JD is to "lowball" him when he's off to a Top 5 MVP finish? That would be like the Sox going to Buehrle again with that $33-35 million/3 year offer. He would laugh in their faces. Looking at the money Roberts, Pierre and Matthews got, not to mention a total tool like JD Drew, I couldn't imagine him accepting it...or the White Sox offering it in mid-season.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:20 AM) Well, they certainly didn't have to develop Mauer. They got lucky by being priced-out of Prior in the first place and even drafting Mauer. The Twins do well with developing young pitching, and yet still, they have their Sidney Ponson's they have to throw out there at any given time. But then again, I already went through this yesterday.... Realistically, who have they developed on their own (draft to bigs) since Radke? Lohse came from the Cubs, Silva from Phillies. Bonser, Nathan, Liriano from SFG, Santana was "stolen" too. JD Durbin was a huge disaster, he was once their top pitching prospects. Balfour and Crain went down to season/career-ending injuries. They have Baker, Bonser, Garza, Slowey and Perkins, and they'll be quite lucky if 1-2 of those guys becomes a regular member of the rotation for 3-5 seasons. We have Danks, Masset, Gio, Russell, Floyd, Haeger, Phillips, Broadway and McCullough. I think it's VERY even between the two organizations in young pitching.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 10:01 AM) I was just thinking about the upcoming draft and I was wondering if there was a way that the White Sox could draft the players and then pay the Twins organization to teach them how to play baseball ? Or better yet, pay the Twins organization to also draft the players for the White Sox. How much would this service be worth ? The Twins are hoping to fund a new stadium. Maybe they could use the money. I know that I would personally contribute to this effort. I thought you wanted to sign Dye to a $60 million, four year contract last offseason? I'm glad that move didn't go down, we'd really be in for some trouble. In answer to your question, NO. And this whole "Twins" system thing is overrated...Punto, Bartlett and Castillo came from other teams and/or minor league systems. Same with Jason Tyner. Lew Ford came from the Red Sox. Rondell White, ditto. We don't need their system, we need Gardenhire, but that's not going to happen either. You do have to give them some credit for David Ortiz, but something obviously held him back in the Twin Cities, right? He went from an average, overweight AL DH to the most-feared hitter in the American League in the span of two years. Otherwise, you're left with Mauer, Cuddyer, Hunter and Morneau...all great players. But we could compare that to, well, Magglio, Carlos Lee, Crede and Rowand, coming up quite a bit short (although both of those former Sox outfielders would look good about right now, but not for those salaries and contract years).