caulfield12

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:46 PM) Buh? Buehrle? Garland (from Cubs)? Any number of relievers? Yes, you have to go back 9-10 years to Buehrle and Garland, and Garland didn't start with us and spent very little time in the minors before coming up in 2000 at age 19/20. I guess you can count Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, Rocky Biddle and Danny Wright as amounting to something if you wish (or even Rauch/Majewski)...but since then, zippo, except for McCarthy. Even Frank Francisco spent a lot more time with the Red Sox than the White Sox before we flipped him for Everett.

Just like Josh Rupe was the "wildcard" when we traded him...or Matt Guerrier was going to be "the next Maddux" according to McClendon and the Pirates' GM at the time. Yeah, they really ripped off KW and gave up that Marte kid, who they weren't even going to keep on the roster because of a numbers game in the bullpen. If Carlos Torres lights the world on fire with the Royals, it will be the first time a young White Sox starting prospect has amounted TO ANYTHING this decade, unless you want to count Brandon McCarthy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:35 PM) How about a Healthy Contreras? I think healthy Linebrink, Contreras, God might have done it. Even as a 4th starter down the stretch, Contreras would probably have shown some bigger cojones than Vazquez, and that would have given us so much more flexibility to dump Richard in to games that Vazquez started early, etc. Forgot about him going down with the Achilles' injury in that Red Sox series. I was saying to myself at that exact point in time, the White Sox chances this season are toast...

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) and at this rate, we wont sniff a playoff game for at least 5 years. I am not sayig its cubs v sox, but look waht they are doing up there and look what we are unloading down here. Ummm....that's what I would have said last year at this time as a Twins' fan. We just gave up the best pitcher in the game for Carlos Gomez basically (at least to this point, Humber and Mulvey haven't done much), we lost our most important veteran leader in Torii Hunter, we've signed Livan Hernandez as our biggest offseason deal and Brad Radke has retired, yet somehow we're going to go down to the final game of the season + 1. Oh, yeah, and we've traded away what might have been our best young pitcher (along with Liriano), our underrated shortstop for "headcase" Delmon Young.

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) and at this rate, we wont sniff a playoff game for at least 5 years. I am not sayig its cubs v sox, but look waht they are doing up there and look what we are unloading down here. A lot depends on who acquires them. As has been mentioned a boatload of times, the combination of Soriano, Dempster and Fukudome might be the worst triumvirate of long-term deals in the game to go sour simultaneously. I can't remember the particulars with Ramirez and D. Lee off the top of my head, but they've got huge commitments for the future, and even the Cubs' vaunted revenue streams will be challenged without a new ballpark and constant playoff disappointment. In our own division, only Dontrelle Willis and Sheffield come close, but those guys aren't signed for nearly as many years as the Cubs' group.

We were a healthy Linebrink, a healthy Quentin, a better leadoff hitter, a healthy 2005-ish Crede (although I think we could have made it with Uribe, probably, the way he was playing defense and hitting there at the end) and exchanging a "bulldog" like Garland/Garcia as 4th for Vazquez away from being a World Series team. You could probably also add in there "normal/career average" seasons from Konerko and Swisher respectively.

1:10pm: Roman Modrowski of the Chicago Sun-Times says Peavy sang "Go Cubs, Go" at a Vegas bar last night. Good times. Kerry Wood likely signing to be Indians' closer now, instead of with the Tigers. Some crazy team is going to give Derek FREAKING Lowe $80 million over 5 years. Now I know why Jon Garland turned down arbitration with the Angels. Geez, that's a lot of Lowe at this stage in his career, especially if he goes back to the hitter-friendly AL. And Jamie Moyer asking for $20 million over 2 years.

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 01:17 PM) KW is getting suckered again, time to blame the media or "leaks" in the organization. Well, whatever happened (or didn't happen last offseason), it turned out okay for us, right? How is he being suckered? Because you happen to believe we're trading him for just Edwin Jackson? Or can you provide more examples of KW being suckered during his regime (besides the Todd Ritchie trade, or Durham for Adkins)?

We can be PRETTY SURE that either Reyes or Morton were turned down as the final piece of the Vazquel deal. If KW was talked out of acquiring "a major league ready pitcher" for Santos Rodriguez and Gilmore, why would he turn around and then acquire one of them, especially when that's EXACTLY what he was APPARENTLY looking for in order to fill out our rotation at that point, or at the very least, provide depth with Marquez/CR/AP?

According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pursuit of right-hander AJ Burnett. mlbtraderumors

Ummmm.....no, but we didn't expect to win the World Series coming out of Spring Training '05, or compete for a division title in 2008. Second, Dye hasn't been traded for Bailey, not yet at least. Third, KW knows what he's doing better than anyone here. Wait until you seen the Opening Day roster, then you can make whatever comments you want to make about being able to compete in 2009. Even then, KW almost always make an adjustment at mid-season to give us one final "cog" to make a run. I guess 2006 was one of the few exceptions, when he relied on the word of Thome, Paulie and Dye that they didn't need to add anything. Fourth, we lost Valentin, Ordonez and Carlos Lee one off-season and won it all the next year. We haven't lost considerably more this offseason. Swisher was a part-time player, Crede was injured, Uribe is/was Uribe, Cabrera was so-so, just like Vazquez. Now I'll agree that trading Dye would cut deeper, but just wait and see what he does with the savings...there's a lot of other options like Dunn, Abreu, Ibanez, Griffey, Juan Rivera, Milton Bradley, J. Hermida. KW needs to sign at least one FA to replace some of the offensive firepower lost. Fifth, it was just last season we were coming off 72 wins, things looked completely bleak (DET and CLE looked like world-beaters), and we missed out on Torii Hunter, Miguel Cabrera, Fukudome (lucky for us) and Aaron Rowand, just to name a few. I don't think any fans torched the message boards then, and they won't now, especially coming off a Central Division crown.

I think Octavio Dotel making $6.5 million as a set-up man would qualify as well...that's a lot of money to pay someone who's not the closer, not to mention the money committed to MacDougal, Linebrink and Thornton. If anything, it was a reaction (or overreaction to some) to the 2006 and 2007 seasons, in terms of correcting past philosophical mistakes of going "cheap" on the bullpen and throwing lots of "good arms" without much experience into the melting pot and hoping to strike gold with a couple of them (like Aardsma and Sisco, for example)

In fact, trading Dye could clear the way for the Sox to go after a free agent such as Milton Bradley or Rocco Baldelli, as well as add a veteran starting pitcher on the cheap. A major-league source told the Sun-Times not to be surprised to see Freddy Garcia back in a Sox uniform in spring training if his current ''aches'' subside. The Sox know what they get with Garcia, and he'd love to be reunited with Ozzie Guillen. But for now, Williams was adamant that there's one way to build a team: his. ''It doesn't matter in terms of our planning what the outside world thinks,'' Williams said. ''I'm sorry, and that's putting it very bluntly, but if I reacted to all the things the public and media wanted us to do, we'd be in a much different place than we are now.'' cowley, suntimes.com/sports On the Jermaine Dye "situation" "From a personal standpoint, I make no bones about it," Williams said of Dye. "He's a good man. And I consider him a friend. "But there's going to come a day, soon here, whether it's the next year or the year after that when all of your players, no matter how close you are with them, all of your players are going to have to be transitioned into a different aspect of life." "And I'd like to think we do it well and we'll continue to operate in this fashion," said Williams, who has shifted gears from past years when he traded prospects for veterans. "But now we have to build something that, yes, we can win in 2009 and sustain a new young core as we move into the future." Williams reiterated the lack of bona fide leadoff hitters available and endorsed Jerry Owens as a candidate, although Owens was beset by injuries in 2008 after stealing 32 bases in 93 games in 2007. "I'm not so quick to forget guys that have a lot of potential and a lot of talent and fall off for whatever reason," Williams said. "We've made a pretty good living here to take advantage off those situations." mark gonzales/chicagotribune.com

Well, yes, by definition, all of the players we brought in before 2005 were "complementary." L. Vizcaino El Duque (I think he was the MOST expensive, around $5.5-6.5 million?) Tad Iguchi (KW never even saw him play in person, just went off videotape) AJ (had worn out his welcome quickly in SF) Jermaine Dye (coming off injury, uncertain future at that point after the broken leg and other injuries) Dustin Hermanson Scott Podsednik Of course, the main difference is we didn't sign any of them or bring them in on LONG-TERM (3+ years) FA deals and they certainly weren't making anywhere close to $10 million per season...El Duque was the closest.

Michael Jordan's father, etc. I lived in Colombia for one year (05-06), so I can only say that these guys (and their families) are very high profile, and easy targets for kidnappers or those looking for a ransom, unless things go awry, which usually happens. Remember the whole Uribe shooting incident last year? Of course, Guillen's good friend (maybe best friend) Gus Polidor was killed, and Ugueth Urbina was kidnapped but also jailed for murder. I really wish Ozzie would at least have a driver/bodyguard down there with him, not that this can prevent a superior, well-trained force from taking someone...Ozzie's kind of like, if we change our lives or make concessions, we "let the terrorists" win, it's his home, and I guess it's worth the risk to him to spend time down there, until something happens to one of his family members.

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 10:32 PM) Why yes! And, when spending time in Mexico, he throws only a tick or two less than Bobby Jenks! Are you making a joke about Nick Masset? Or Jon Adkins? Or Felix Diaz?

Furcal or Hudson for 2 years, 3 tops...that might be okay. Still, in this type of economy, no way in H--- will KW go anything close to 4-5 years or $10 million per season on Orlando Hudson. Like David DeJesus, he's a nice complementary player to have, but he's not a superstar by any stretch of the imagination, and KW's posture is that we can get a much much cheaper approximation in Lillibridge. Moving Hudson to CF makes him even less valuable, exposes him to any number of injuries and just doesn't make any long-term sense. KW, the FO and the scouts know where they are envisioning Beckham's major league positional home, and if it's 2B, then Hudson isn't a logical move.

Brent Lillibridge over the River Kwai....I'm not so far from it here in Thailand, thought I'd go with the old Boomer Berman nicknames approach.

If we traded Konerko for some reason, then I think it's going to come down to fielding ability over there between Allen and Flowers, which would obviously favor Allen at this point in their careers. I'd hate to waste Viciedo's arm strength at 1B...3B or RF would be more ideal, if possible destinations. Fields goes from an offensive "plus" at 3B to so-so/mehhh at 1B, kind of like Swisher would have been had he stayed and Paulie was traded.

Hopefully he's better than Carlos Lee defensively, at either 3B or LF/RF. He certainly has better arm strength than Caballo at least.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 10:15 PM) No, none of that is my point. I don't think it's out of the question that Lillibridge bounces back after a down year after being bought low on. I think that's more likely than the idea that he suddenly faded into oblivion actually. He could be no more than a bench player, he could be a MLB starter, who knows. In any case we are ruining Heads's thread. Well, SUPPOSEDLY, he was battling a wrist injury/nagging problem and he adjusted his swing (as is normal, to compensate for injury to play through it, especially when given a legit shot to start in the big leagues) and ended up completely messing his mechanics up. That's the KW story at least.

QUOTE (Jimmywins1 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 09:11 PM) "Williams added that recently acquired catcher Tyler Flowers has the ability to hit on the major league level now. Flowers is likely to start the season at Double-A Birmingham." This intrigued me. I wonder if we'll see Flowers as a DH in Chicago in 2010, before we see him as a catcher replacing AJ? Obviously, he has 5X more value if he can catch at least "adequately," so you'd hope they wouldn't rush him, but Viciedo, Flowers and possibly Fields would be the best internal candidates to replace Thome in 2010.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:43 PM) And they're going to add a closer in the next few weeks. Can they afford K-Rod, Fuentes or even Wood in Detroit's future economy? There are a ton of names out there, though, like Putz, Isringhausen, Cordero, Valverde, Brandon Lyon, Hoffman, Juan Cruz...I guess they'll end up with someone. Hopefully his name is Joe Borowski or Armando Benitez.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:37 PM) anybody that thinks the Tigers have a significant amount of money is absolutely fooling themselves. They're so low that they are depending on Ramon Santiago and Adam Everett at SS. I can't imagine how they'll be good next year. A lot of it depends on Bonderman's health, Zumaya/Rodney, Robertson returning to form, Sheffield (who looks done)...and maybe the wild card in Porcello, although DD is smart enough not to rush that kind of a pitching talent out of desperation. In many ways, I think they rushed Andr. Miller up to the bigs before he was ready, though. And we thought we had "bad" contracts with MacDougal/Contreras/Konerko. That's nothing compared to the Dontrelle Willis Train Wreck and Sheffield. Those Maybin and Jurrgens deals will really haunt them IMO.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhGV...o&type=lgns Speculation about Kerry Wood to become new Tigers' closer. Casey Blake looks close to a 3 year deal with LA. Furcal going back to Dodgers looking for an offer again. Eckstein and Izturis might figure in, no mention of Cabrera in the mix. Twins now looking at Jack Wilson, too. Very little mention of Joe Crede's name, strange with Boras as his agent.