caulfield12

QUOTE(WilliamTell @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:12 PM) Good way to start. Hopefully Sweeney really learns something from being around Erstad for some time this year.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ May 9, 2007 -> 06:57 PM) I'd hate to be in a foxhole with some of these guys. How can a rational person go into a season supposedly with high hopes and then panic after the team plays .500 a month into the season??? The mark of a good team (and a good manager BTW) is how they weather the rough times that come to every team in almost every season. If these people think there is no way the Sox can overcome a .500 start with none of their hitters hitting and four and a half months to go they are just showing they have no understanding of a Major League Baseball season. And one more thing about having a "Fire Sale." If the Sox continue to fall behind while guys like Dye, Iguchi, Crede, etc. are hitting and playing well, then it may make sense to white flag it and get a good return on some of these guys while their value is high. But as for now, trying to sell off guys who are batting .200 will get you nothing and it makes no sense when the team is playing .500 ball even while they are not producing. Since the Sox have played .500 ball during a tough stretch of their schedule while their key guys are either injured or batting around .200, wouldn't anybody here want to see what they will do when these guys start hitting at their career norms before clamoring for a fire sale??? Nobody's clamoring for a fire sale...I'm just saying that it's likely to happen if we don't show some positive signs of breaking out of this, and soon. Of course, Thome and Hall will help our offense. And I wasn't optimistic about this season like I was last year. We all expected the playoffs coming into '06, I'm not sure anyone could confidently predict we'd get there this year based on our offseason moves and with a rookie 5th starter and aging Contreras. Games like last night set the tone for the entire season....we will get up off the mat or we will lie down and get swept? I think we all want to be patient, as long as it's feasible. But I think most posters here would like to see KW have a CLEAR direction to go in as June and July are upon us...as doing nothing and standing pat won't help us at all for next year, unless we're expecting Gio and Russell to be starters next year and still be able to contend. Did Sox fans who realized we were dead in the water in August of last year WANT the Sox to lose? Or for Guillen to be fired? I hope not...it was just a sense that something was seriously missing, chemistry, fire, drive...was anyone surprised the last two months of 2006 and the first two months of 2007? If you've followed the White Sox, you've seen it coming. We're getting old and it's catching up with Iguchi, Dye, Pods, Thome and Contreras in particular. Nothing can be done about it, besides transitioning to a younger, more athletic team, as quickly as possible...while hopefully still being a contender simultaneously.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ May 9, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) You are completely right on all accounts. 2nd, 3rd, and 5 year coaches = new. Clearly that is correct. Old coaching staffs do not lead to winning, exactly, I don't know what I was thinking. How could I even begin to debate these ideas. I was completely wrong in my way of thinking. How could I possibly have a different opinion than yours? For those 50% of you trying to fire Ozzie today, who exactly do you want? Let me guess, the anti-Ozzie, so that means Joe Girardi, right? Someone who will bring "law and order" back to the Sox clubhouse...because that style works so well with the likes of AJ, Crede, Buehrle and Rowand? Girardi is fine with a young team, just like Manuel was...but for a veteran team? If we're going to rebuild completely, I wouldn't be totally against it. But I would rather start over with the Twins' scouts and Ozzie as manager than with the Sox scouts and Gardenhire as manager.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 9, 2007 -> 09:17 AM) Managing, as well. Even though it didn't work out for them, I loved how Gardenhire got Ozzie to bring in Aardsma so that he could have Kubel bat (a much more dangerous hitter than Rabe). I can't remember the last time Ozzie used his bench like that in order to get a favorable match-up at the plate. Of course, it would help if we had a single dangerous hitter off our bench. We've gone from one of the best AL benches to the worst.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 9, 2007 -> 09:15 AM) Donny Lucy has thrown out 10 of the last 14 would-be base stealers against him, and picked one off as well. AJ was 2 for 14 coming into yesterday...without the help of Big Game Freddy Garcia.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ May 9, 2007 -> 09:05 AM) And the Sox WILL be in 4th place if they keep up this level of horses*** play and managing. The irony is that Morneau has been really struggling this year driving in RISP. Of course, leave it to the White Sox to break him out of that slump. Apparently, he wants to beat the White Sox more than we want to beat him. Where has the fire gone with this team? The Twins always seem to have that little "edge" or motivation in our head-to-head match-ups.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 9, 2007 -> 09:03 AM) It was one inning aided in large part by a terrible throwing error. Yes, AJP, Iguchi, and Crede all finally put on nice contact swings. Besides that one inning though, the offense was atrocious. I agree with you though, compared to other games this season, that inning was an offensive explosion. Not to mention that we really played like crap those two games and got out of there 2-0 when we should have split or gone 0-2. Our record pretty accurately reflects where we are, though. Capable of being a great bullpen, but results in the bottom 25% of MLB pens. A team that has won 8 of 9 games on the road by coming from behind (despite the offense), yet inconsistent. A team that can knock out Street, Duscherer, Shields and K-Rod but struggle to close out the Twins, no matter who you put in that uniform against the Sox.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 9, 2007 -> 08:57 AM) Well, Garcia is at the 90 mph mark right now, so he made a gross error in judgement if he didn't think Garcia would be healthy enough to pitch in the majors this year. When KW made the Garcia trade, he had no clue that the McCarthy trade would occur. He's even said as much. The simple point I'm making is that the Garcia trade, in regards to the people who we acquired, won't do s*** to help the team in 2007. I think the main argument was that Garcia = or

QUOTE(joeynach @ May 9, 2007 -> 08:50 AM) I actually think Frank was a better hitter against RHP than left. Something thats strange but I remember that sticking out for some reason. You can look up his splits on yahoo I think. Last three years. .239 versus lefties, .271 versus righties

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 9, 2007 -> 08:14 AM) How anyone can blame this loss (primarily) on anyone other than MMac is beyond me. I'm sure some will blame Iguchi (from both sides of the field, offensively and defensively)... And Aardsma looked really shaky out there as well. Not sure that he's closer material. I know MacDougal isn't, not for the White Sox. It's just like Kip Wells in 2002 and 2003. He wouldn't have put up those same stats with the White Sox...MacDougal might have saved 21/24, but it was Doug Jones/Joe Borowski-esque. Always a high-wire act on the precipice of disaster, and many of those saves were 2-3 run leads where he would give up a run or two but still get the save.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 9, 2007 -> 01:28 AM) What if he hits a homer? God I love Ozzie's logic. No, it's your fault for not f***ing walking Morneau. Iguchi and Crede didn't exactly help either. QUOTE(briguy27 @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:32 AM) going after joe girardi...brilliant It's amazing how fanbases always want the opposite of what they have... Jerry Manuel, asleep at the wheel, no emotions, Gandhi, passive. Ozzie...crazy, bad "game manager," too emotional, his methods will be tuned out by players, will have a run--in with the media and get fired Giradi...too boring, too many cliches, micro-manager, wants to control every aspect of the organization, huge ego KW will never hire Girardi, they couldn't co-exist. He's not a part of the "White Sox family" either. from chicagosports.com (so much for firing Walker!) "People want a reaction to a lack of performance in a certain area," Williams said. "But I'm not interested in that. We're interested in a stable franchise that allows us to compete on a yearly basis and to do that, you better keep your people around. That's the long answer. "The short answer is, I haven't even thought about it."

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:34 AM) He could have very well believed that with Garcia struggling to hit the 85 mph mark, that we would be better with Gavin Floyd in the rotation. If you want to discount the McCarthy trade completely, you could also say Kenny thought we would be a better team with McCarthy in the rotation over Garcia. How is either one of those a lie? Its a subjective opinion that you don't agree with. Some are convinced we would have won with Rowand instead of Thome last year (HA, HA!!!) or that we should kept Thomas over Thome... And you'll never convince anyone otherwise, we're already set in our opinions...BA/Ozzie, BA/Erstad, Ozzie as a manager. It doesn't matter what the argument. Last year, it was "Dark Clouds" who felt the season was getting away in July and August and those who could never be convinced that 2006 was a different year. It reminds me of all those faithful who believed the tech stocks would return to their previous values, versus the people who took their losses but reallocated their money into investments that have done much better since 00-02 because they knew when to cut their losses. Ultimately, KW has to have a feel for this...7 1/2 to 9 games out in the first or second week of June and behind 3 teams, we have to be in a selling mode.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:24 AM) Danks has nothing to do with the Garcia trade. The real issue here is that KW didn't do much of anything with the savings from Garcia deal...we just stayed status quo, and paid for the raises and salary increases in our payroll. Realistically, we need to shed the salaries of Mack and Cintron and open up those spots for younger players. Heck, I would rather they take that $5 million and buy off the Twins' Director of Scouting and half of his staff...than overpaying two bench players, one of who is potentially blocking Sweeney's progress. If he doesn't play and you go with Sweeney, you're wasting valuable payroll money that could be better allocated on a legitimate everyday starter, not a utility player.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:17 AM) Yeah, now these were the over-reaction type threads I had been missing! And how is our franchise better off because KW waited one year too long to do something? He has been too patient, and it's going to set back our being a competitive team again by 1-2 years because he was too wishy-washy and didn't commit enough to winning last year, when it was our best shot to get it done and we still had a reservoir of good will with our fanbase. Now he'll be preaching patience again, and he'll end up losing 25-33% of the season ticket base as a result...not quite as dramatic as Cleveland's fall in 2002-2003, as they had been selling out nearly every game. We'll be back to the "real" White Sox fans and lose the bandwagon, but we'll be back in the $75-90 million payroll range in all likelihood, which is fine if you're the Twins or A's...and worked ONCE for the White Sox, 2005. But almost EVERYTHING has to go right in that situation, every acquisition, no injuries, no FA busts.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:02 AM) Danks is starting instead of Garcia, and to me so far at least, it is looking like the Sox are better for it. KW believed "in his heart" we were just as competitive (if not moreso) with Floyd as the 5th starter over McCarthy, before the deal for Brandon went down with all the Garland rumors swirling. I really think that things could be a lot worse...we could extended Dye, Iguchi and Crede (instead of Buehrle). We could have gone out and spent a ton of money on either Pierre or Roberts and let Pods go, in which case, we'd be blocking Sweeney and we'd be selling off those guys in June/July, since they wouldn't be part of any long-term plan, maybe Pierre...but the days of a consistent 50 stolen bases won't last for much longer as he enters his 30's. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2007 -> 07:02 AM) Danks is starting instead of Garcia, and to me so far at least, it is looking like the Sox are better for it. KW believed "in his heart" we were just as competitive (if not moreso) with Floyd as the 5th starter over McCarthy, before the deal for Brandon went down with all the Garland rumors swirling. I really think that things could be a lot worse...we could extended Dye, Iguchi and Crede (instead of Buehrle). We could have gone out and spent a ton of money on either Pierre or Roberts and let Pods go, in which case, we'd be blocking Sweeney and we'd be selling off those guys in June/July, since they wouldn't be part of any long-term plan, maybe Pierre...but the days of a consistent 50 stolen bases won't last for much longer as he enters his 30's.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ May 9, 2007 -> 01:24 AM) Baker's done with the Twinkies. Has the same relationship with Gardenhire that B-Mac had with Ozzie. And things will get worse for Minnesota when Santana leaves. It's not a given that Liriano is going to be the same when he comes back from his surgery as well. Yes, but a young/affordable pitcher who throws 95/96 is worth a heckuva lot more in this market than a 25 year old outfielder whose career average is in the low 200's. They held onto JD Durbin too long, as well as Michael Restovich...they'll get a better return this time around. I'm sure the Yankees would take him, he pitched well against them last year in New York.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 9, 2007 -> 12:26 AM) And WTF? There's a problem apparently with a .553 winning percentage, which is what the Sox put up in 2005. It's not quite .663, but jesus that apparently sucks now a days. They didn't have a shot in 2004, and if they DIDN'T play .600 ball in the second half of 2003, they would have won 75 games. In 2002, their second half brought them to a .500 record. The only thing you can even contest at this point is that the Sox are a lousy second half team under Ozzie Guillen, because under Manuel they finished above .500 in the second half every year this decade (and I didn't bother to look in the 90s, but I assume it wasn't bad), and even that is a pretty small sample size. 2004, I'll give you the injuries to Magglio and Thomas. 2003, yes, they played well in the second half...but they finished losing 10 of 18 and 5 of those 6 losses were to the Twins (1-5 in the games that counted). We did go from 45-49 at the break to 12 games over, but we choked. 2002, they traded half of their veterans...but the only time they played well, it was in the first six weeks of the season when Lofton was really hot. I think they were 22-14 in May and then they treaded water for the rest of the season. 2000, we only played 5 games over .500 in the 2nd half, after starting out 55-32. 2005, we were only 8 games over .500 after going out 57-29.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 9, 2007 -> 12:20 AM) Dude, look at the f***ing numbers and data from year's past; the Twins had to pass three too. They were 12-18 at game 30, behind Cleveland, who was 16-14, and Chicago and Detroit, who I didn't even bother to look up because the Sox had 17 wins in April and the Tigers were good too. And if you try and tell me that Minnesota this year and Cleveland last year aren't comparable teams, I'll call you crazy as hell. Nathan hasn't looked like 04-06 Nathan really at all, the rest of the bullpen has been pretty hittable, and aside from Santana, they don't have one starter who's better than league average, and three of them should have ERAs around 5.00 at the end of the year (if they were to remain in the rotation the rest of the year, which just simply is not possible). The problem is the lack of talent on the White Sox roster, and how injury prone Thome, who is probably the most valuable player to his team than anyone else in the AL, really appears to be at this point. Add to the fact that there is no depth to the bench, this team still won't be able to hit LHP, and Ozzie Guillen is one of the worst game managers in the league (I've never seen as many lineups this year that don't make sense as I have ever, and he still can't manage a bullpen), and the Sox just have little to no chance. I would say yes, except the Twins have owned us every year from 2001-2007, with the lone exception of 2005. Especially in their house...we don't have to face Santana and we still very easily will be swept out of there. And Minnesota always has a way of winning the big games in August and September. So the way I look at Minnesota is as a team that's so fundamentally solid, they're not going to pull a midsummer fade like the Indians. They have four starting pitchers in the minors who will end up shuting out the White Sox in Garza, Baker, Slowey and Perkins. Hunter's in a salary drive, and Cuddyer, Morneau and Mauer are always dangerous in the middle of that line-up. And they have the best bullpen in the league again. They're going to win 85-88 games and finish ahead of the Sox. Cleveland was pythagorean 89-73, but they ended up at 78-84 due to their abysmal pen.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ May 9, 2007 -> 12:02 AM) If this team is 10+ games out next month, I wouldn't be too upset with a fire sale, but I hope KW actually gets some real quality in return. It's sort of intriguing as well. KW needs to look at Oakland and Milwaukee. Rebuild how they did. Oakland rebuilt with getting a very good pitcher in Haren in return for Mulder. Some of their moves, like signing Loaiza and overpaying, weren't so smart. They really could use Bonderman about right now. Blanton is serviceable but not more than a 4/5. Kennedy and Gaudin are castoffs from other organizations. The only way they can do any damage is for Harden and Haren to be healthy all season...but BB doesn't believe that will happen, so he's trying to get the highest possible return for Harden, but I don't think anyone will be dumb enough to bite. They haven't really replaced the firepower of Giambi, Tejada, Damon, Dye and Hernandez...they're a team that heavily relies on starting pitching, clutch hitting, OBP and the back of their bullpen. Buck looks like he MIGHT be a decent player, but Crosby really struggled with injuries and the sophomore jinx, and Chavez fell off as well. Bradley was a high-risk/high-reward move that KW would have prided himself in, but they have too many complementary players on offense like Kotsay, Ellis, Johnson, Kendall, etc. Just not enough firepower without Piazza's bat in the middle of the order. If you want to look a model organizations, you need to look at Florida, Minnesota, Milwaukee and the Angels.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 9, 2007 -> 12:04 AM) The Gospel According to Dusty. Thanks for that. Probably the dumbest thing I've read here in quite a while. From 2000-2006, why have we only played better in the 2nd half of the season once? I want to hear YOUR explanation. We're just chokers 86% of the time? That seems like a trend to me. Maybe it's global warming.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ May 8, 2007 -> 11:01 PM) Excellent, I have work tomorrow night so I won't be around to demand a trade or firing. No firings this year. Bring in a new hitting instructor for 2008. That's it. I'm fine with Ozzie. We're just not good...if OG was a great manager, we'd win 86-90 games with this team, but it still wouldn't be enough to make the playoffs, and we'd be a year older and a great manager would be doing incredibly well to get to .500 without Buehrle, Crede, Dye and Iguchi, and probably Uribe too. QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 8, 2007 -> 11:03 PM) Personally, I hold June 11th as the deciding date to officially declare players for sale. Little more than a month from now. If we're seven or more games out, it may be time for Williams to make a difficult decision -- either have false belief, or restock for 2008 and beyond. I just hope Williams realizes for any player traded, this organization's future relies upon the return package. Fans shouldn't be expecting only a 'B' and 'C' level prospect for Buehrle. I don't even care if people make excuses of "oh well, no one wants a rent-a-player" or "who trades (player) for (return value)." It's what needs to be done to ensure this team competes in the future. And no, I don't expect a Top 10 prospect; but neither do I expect the type of players Williams acquires from scrap heaps. You know, the pitchers or positional players who have had several good seasons in the past and are currently mediocore. Or those players who, because of injury or ineffectiveness, haven't fulfilled their promise. No Gavin Floyd projects. No one who I have to hear ," Coop will fix him." If the Tigers gave up the now injured Humberto Sanchez, who was one of their 3 best pitching prospects, along with a couple of others, to get a 38 Sheffield....we should be able to get something comparable for Dye, especially if KW predicates the deal on that team working out an extension as a condition of the trade. We wouldn't have traded for Garcia had we not known we were going to be able to keep him for 3 more years.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ May 8, 2007 -> 10:57 PM) Do you want to start the next one or should I? Last year in the second half is when KW should have "sold out" to go for broke and try to hold off the Twins, when the Red Sox and Indians were down... It's too late now. The only weak spot with Detroit was Maroth and Sheffield's slow start, but they're covering up nicely, even Durbin has done well enough and they have Andrew Miller. Heck, Jason Grilli is replacing Rodney adequately right now. There's a reason we're last in the AL in runs for a stretch of 115 games. We're not very good...and we're getting older and older, you're starting to see signs of why KW was so hesitant with Dye and Iguchi. The only really bad contract I think we'll end up with is for Contreras, through 09, unless Konerko never wakes up and returns to 2002/03 stupor form.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ May 8, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) That's another organization. Maybe Houston should have quit two years ago when their record was horrid the first couple of months. It's a different ballgame for different organizations. Houston also developed quite a history of that, doing it at least twice and coming VERY close last year as well. The heat in Chicago takes a lot of out us in August and the first half of September. We've traditionally been a lousy second half team, holding on and treading water in 2000 and 2005 and fading in 2003, 2002 and 2006. 2001 is the only year we played better the last four months (without Wells, David and Thomas), and that year, the struggle was to get from 14-29 back to the .500 mark, which we did accomplish. Minnesota and Houston play in climate-controlled parks.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 8, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) Did Jerry Owens do something I didn't see? Heck, even Escobar has had more success in the majors than Owens has. Well, considering he only spent $25,000 or $50,000 on Escobar, it was a very good move...I guess it seemed better in 2004 or 05 than it seems today, because of his age and some of his struggles as well as his defensive and arm strength limitations.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ May 8, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) I know this lost was tough, but this thread is ridiculous. Two days? Please. I'll agree with Showtime in saying that if we play s***ty these next couple weeks, then I can see this organization thinking differently next month even though I would give it a month and a half/ two months tops. The Twins were very close to trading Hunter and sending Morneau to the minors in early June last year...and they finally turned the corner, around the 7th-10th of June. That's exactly one month from now. We don't have the luxury of bringing in Liriano from the pen, discovering an MVP, Rookie of the Year, Cy Young Winner and Rolaids Relief Man all on one team....we'd be lucky to have ONE of those happen. Where it becomes a mathematical difficulty is one month from now and 7.5-9 games out. We could be closing in on that territory after this weekend.