caulfield12

We've gone through Thigpen, Roberto Hernandez, Howry, Foulke, Koch, Takatsu, Hermanson and Jenks without ever having to spend boatloads of money on any of these guys, all who were decent or at least adequate for most of their Sox careers. Unfortunately, another team's going to have to be desperate to give us a Fernando Martinez caliber of player because all of baseball knows the warning signs. 1) Decreased fastball (although he was close to 2005 form in the late stages of season and playoff run) 2) Past injury history 3) Weight issues 4) Other past mental/psychological history (although that appears to be a complete non-issue any longer) 5) Declining strikeout ratio per IP over last three seasons 6) Shelf life of the average MLB closer Torres retiring helps...and Hoffman, hopefully. That decreases the available pool of talent and drives up the worth/value of Bobby.

With the insider trading charges...that will be the final "black mark" against him used by Selig et al to keep him from buying into MLB. Wonder if this takes a Martha Stewart (Inclone) turn or is less serious?

QUOTE (moragasoxfan @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 10:14 PM) Oops! Forgot that Armstrong was already on the Top 10 list. Rogers comment on McCulloch: "He still has value but more as an organizational guy." aka Lance Broadway, Charles Haeger, Egbert...someone of that ilk. Very little talk of Egbert around here the last six months. Last year, he was a favorite of many.

QUOTE (kwill @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 11:05 PM) • Ken Williams is one of the winter's most significant wheelers and dealers. He is marketing Javier Vazquez, Bobby Jenks, Jermaine Dye and others as he tries to overhaul the White Sox. The Mets are afraid of the red flag on Jenks, whose strikeout rate has dropped precipitously from 50 in 39 1/3 innings in 2005 to 38 in 61 2/3 innings this past season. And although GM Omar Minaya checked in on Sabathia, it does not mean the Mets will get into a bidding war with the Yankees for the 2007 AL Cy Young Award winner. • Scouts in Arizona for the Arizona Fall League and the White Sox's minor league people are convinced that Gordon Beckham, the eighth pick in the MLB draft this past June, will be Chicago's everyday second baseman by June. I find both being very telling of the whitesox offseason plans as getting everyday centerfield rather than a middle infielder seems to be a priority to williams. Beckham seems to a prospect that is already polished in many ways and will be a major impact in August and September. Swisher deal in my opinion reveals that Williams has no intentions on trading Dye as he only has one year on his contract and Swisher would have been a low cost replacement in right field. Bobby Jenks on the other hand may be dealt as Kenny doesnt believe in paying big money to closers. I could see him spread the wealth elsewhere along with getting prospects back in order to make the whitesox younger. Jenks could be a centerpiece for a trade involving the Giants. Javier may interest some teams as he reliable and could entice some suitors with his talent level. Maybe, if the Braves pull out of the Peavy sweepstakes they could come knocking on Kenny's door. Don't forget Dye has a $12 million dollar contract option for 2010 or $1 million buyout. By that time, Viciedo or Quentin could be playing RF. Anything is possible.

Well...if the kid's a legit 19, I just can't imagine Cashman or Epstein thinking he would possibly be ready, maturity-wise or physically, for the mental grind of dealing with playing in either of those two cities (or Philly, for that matter). Cashman, I would have thought, should have learned his lesson/s from Contreras. You really need to do the background work and due diligence before bringing a Swisher or Viciedo onto your roster. Personally, my read on all this is that the ACTUAL concrete offers they have received until now were pretty underwhelming...if they had something that knocked their socks off, there would be some more "fire/smoke" about the signing being imminent. Maybe they are just playing teams against each other and weighing their options, but I can't imagine Torres preferring to stick him in NY or BOS unless he's 100% confident he can handle the pressure there. He knows that the White Sox, with Guillen/Contreras/Ramirez, would be a much better and more natural fit. Even as a RFer, with Dye possibly trade bait and definitely out of the picture in Chicago after 2010.

QUOTE (moragasoxfan @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 07:49 PM) Although BA doesn't post its Top 30 until January, one can get a pretty good idea of the approximate order of the next 12 prospects, based on the Rogers chat. Brent Morel Jon Link Jhonny Nunez Jeff Marquez Jose Martinez Adam Russell Dexter Carter Dan Hudson Jack Egbert - "20 or below" Lucas Harrell - "20 or below" Juan Silverio - low 20s You would have to believe that Lance Broadway is rated somewhere in the 11 to 20 range although Rogers never specifically says that he's still in the Top 30. Other prospects mentioned as Top 30: Justin Cassell, Cole Armstong Armstrong is #9. Funny that Kyle McCulloch has fallen so far off the map that a first rounder in our system doesn't even merit a mention anymore. I guess that's a good thing.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 07:50 PM) Isn't Blake like 37 or 38 now? I wonder how much left he has in him and how long of a deal he's going to want. Hopefully if he goes to the Twins they give him good money over three years. He can't have a whole lot left at the hot corner. As far as veteran leadership you may have a point, but if they want a fiery guy they're probably not going to want a laid-back type like Blake - or really any ex-Indians for that matter as it seems the Indians are notorious for playing one half of a season and going through the motions for the other. Besides, I doubt that clubhouse lacks fire. Carlos Gomez is a f***ing nutcase who I am sure over the course of a season provides his share of odd yelps and Spanish battle cries. I don't know, a lot of people (Scully/Torre/teammates) really talked up Casey like he was one of the biggest reasons their team came together, finally, in the end...and the bridge between the veterans on the way out (Nomar, Kent, A. Jones, Pierre) and the new blood. Blake turned 35 a couple of months ago. Plus he's an Iowa boy like Ryan Sweeney!

Should we have a Kierkegaard/Nietszche Thread here now, too, at SoxTalk? Now we've all become philosophers. Well, after sitting in lotus position for 30 minutes of Thai/Buddhist monks chanting yesterday, anything is possible. That's REALLY uncomfortable for a foreigner (farang).

Where have you gone, Francisco Hernandez DiMaggio? Well...that idea bodes well for both Silverio and Jose Martinez. Hopefully they're not the next Dellaero/Caruso/A. Gonzalez.

I want OC to go there and see the Slowest Show on Turf. I just don't want to see them add Blake or Beltre. Both of those would be exactly the kind of veteran leadership they lost when Hunter/Radke/Santana/J. Jones moved on. I really think there's a sense about the Twins that Morneau and/or Mauer are not really fiery enough...the same types of things you hear said about Dye/Konerko/Thome over and over again. I do think having those types of veterans to reign in the likes of D. Young, Matt Garza, etc., are necessary. If the Twins did a better job "in-house" of handling Matt's maturity issues, they wouldn't have had to trade him.

BJ Armstrong (I went to Univ. of Iowa with him)...same thing. Then there's always Dick Clark, lol. He's a kid, too! The funny thing, one of my Thai students saw James Bond/Quantum of Solace and we were talking about cute/handsome and she said Daniel Craig looks old...but that Brad Pitt has a "baby face" and she would still date him even though she's 20, but not Daniel Craig.

What will be interesting is to see if Crede and Uribe can pull the trigger early...some of those FA lists have Crede as high as #10 "most wanted," which I find amazing/incredible to believe. But hey MLB GM's, just roll the tape from September/October 05 and let those guaranteed millions start rolling Boras' way. It will also be intriguing to see if the Twins do get Huston Street, Blake and/or Cabrera...how/when/if KW responds. I'm waiting for the priceless "All this has done is put the Twins in a better position to compete with us..." comments, especially with O-Cab. I'm sure he will have a grin or two on his face, knowing we will get back their draft picks. If we hadn't just traded for Betemit, I wouldn't have been shocked to see him bring in Mr. Nick "Slide Into 1B on every routine infield grounder" Punto

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 04:03 PM) Last I heard Ozzie said that he expects Russell to be a fairly integral part of his bullpen next year. I’ve heard nothing about him falling out of favor. We'll see...I guess Ozzie just completely lost trust/faith in Logan and Ramirez down the stretch, as well as almost forgetting about Russell (you had the sense he was there more to observe in the final 2-3 weeks). I still think Wasserman has a good shot if he pitches like he did in 2007...Carrasco was one of Ozzie's favorites....now you have Nunez/Escobar/Marquez/Broadway/Richard/Poreda in the mix as well for the final guy out of the pen or 5th starter. You also never hear his name mentioned as a future/potential closer. There's been a lot more recent discussion (here and in the media) of Link.

Once again, most are arguing that this kid is probably at least 1 1/2 to 2 seasons away from being ready. He definitely needs to get in better shape. I can't imagine teams like the Yankees or Red Sox are going to pin their hopes on him being their starting RF or 3B as soon as 2009.

I'm the same age as Griffey, almost the same exact birthdays...in fact...so I guess from my perspective he is a kid, lol.

Nunez and Jimenez are giving us some quality arms (like Eduardo Sierra in the past) that may or may not pan out...but the more low-risk moves like this you make on the advice of your scouts, the more likely that one of these "blind darts" hits its target with some big league payoff. We don't have a plethora of high-impact arms who can bring the heat out of the pen at the upper levels, this could turn out to be a very good move or a non-event we totally forget about (like Corky Miller!) Russell seems to have lost favor in the organization, for now, maybe one of these youngsters will come through like Logan did in ST and surprise everyone...and gain great tutors who help get them straightened out.

Not to mention Marquez and Nunez being added to our depth chart as well...and this new signing (Escobar) could be the next Ed. Sierra, for better or worse, lol. Nix almost counts as a prospect in a way, fwiw. Then there's the possibility of bringing in Viciedo or a Japanese starting pitcher.

What next, Tyler Lumsden will win the Cy Young award? LHP Javy Lopez is 10X better than Boone Logan and we should have offered Riske arbitration? Ordonez/Lee/Valentin Our chances of signing Sabathia were about the same as Juan Agosto and Jerry Kutzler being added to the 40 man roster as ST invites. Contreras? Sure...we never should have traded for the guy in the first place? I mean, we gave up someone who ALMOST won the Cy Young for someone who only became the best pitcher in baseball for 4-5 months. Not to mention the Cardinals made a worse mistake with Cris Carpenter, right? I mean, there's NO possibility KW even was smart enough to think ahead and insure Jose's contract either, true? If Cortes would have come into 2009 as the favorite for the 5th starter's job and KW did NOTHING else before ST to address the back end of the rotation, you might have a SOMEWHAT legit gripe. But MacDougal has had more of an impact at the MLB level than Cortes has for the Royals. If you want to argue bad trades, then you can say Sisco/Gload was worse, but, even then, Gload HAD NO PLACE TO PLAY WITH US. WE'RE KIND OF GOOD, the Royals, kind of not so good. Lest we forget, Swisher was so good that DeWayne Wise was playing in the most critical games of the season in front of him. Oh, that's right, Ozzie has grudges against all non-Hispanic players (Anderson, Sean Tracey, Swisher, etc.)

Well, some idiots were suggesting a Lowell for Vazquez deal, but that's never going to happen on KW's watch.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 02:43 AM) Just because a $9 hamburger tastes better than a $12 hamburger doesn't mean that there isn't a $4 hambuger that tastes best of all. Kind of an off the wall analogy, but it holds up. If KW thinks he can get an upgrade in the rotation by trading Vazquez for cheaper, he will. Vazquez is like that 2 pound hamburger (the bun always gets them) that you can get for free if you actually finish it and don't throw up. I think it's served at "R Place" along I-80 southwest of the city, where they also have "Chit Chat" Chicken.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2008/11/14/661...ockingly-low-on http://www.southsidesox.com/2008/11/13/660...-trade-transcri Gotta love those smart-a** White Sox experts who always think they know more than KW about putting a baseball team together. You would have thought we were coming off another 72-90 season with this guy's sarcastic attitude. By the way, I'm sure he has probably been there about 90% of the time to admit when he was wrong as KW's deals have usually turned out for the best, especially when there are "sleeper" players involved that are undervalued/under the radar/struggling/injured.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2008 -> 03:31 AM) It's not necessarily that they offered less but they offered packages that Kenny didn't like nearly as much. They could have offered very talented players who are in the lower minors, offered worse contracts with more talented players, or tried to get packages built up where the Sox would be including other players, but when push came to shove, this was the deal Kenny felt was best for the organization. I guess I didn't state it as clearly as I wanted to...I guess since I usually try to think from KW's perspective, that the offers were LESS or not as good, for the reasons you stated. Most of the pundits and writers/reporters are bagging on that trade already, I would be really interested to see what other offers were on the table (supposedly) and if many of the board members would have preferred those deals to the one that was made.

Joel Sherman of the New York Post takes a look at the sudden surplus of potentially available closers in major league baseball, a situation that certainly benefits the Mets considering their need to upgrade the bullpen this offseason. Two free agent closers that seemed destined to retire with their 2008 teams, Trevor Hoffman and Kerry Wood, now appear to be more available than was expected in October. That pair, along with Francisco Rodriguez and Brian Fuentes, give the Mets and other teams several options in free agency. Other relief pitchers with experience in the 9th inning have been recently mentioned in trade rumors. The list includes Huston Street, who may move again before the 2009 season begins, along with JJ Putz, Jose Valverde, and Bobby Jenks, mentions Sherman. Sherman also provides a short list of teams, beyond the Mets, that may need a reliever with closing experience for 2009. The Texas Rangers, seemingly always short on pitching these days, may be a good fit for Kerry Wood; the Detroit Tigers, the St. Louis Cardinals, and most recently the Milwaukee Brewers, faced with the sudden retirement of Salomon Torres, are also in need of 9th inning help. Sherman suggests Fuentes may be the favorite for the Mets' closing job at this point. from mlbtraderumors.com Couple of interesting rumors...Blake to the Twins (and OC) we've heard, but also that the Twins are very interested in acquiring Street from the Rockies. That would give them a set-up guy to replace Crain/Guerrier in the 8th, and move them forward an inning or two. It's also a replacement, in a way, for the difference-maker that WAS formerly known as Joe Neshek. Who do they have to trade for him? Well, Mijares or Breslow (LHR)...to replace Fuentes. Then someone like Brendan Harris, Buscher, Ruiz or Punto. I also see a little interest in Cuddyer, although he's getting expensive. Of course, the Rockies would prefer Jason Kubel or Denard Span instead.

Which brings us back to the hilarity of Nate McLouth being in consideration for Gold Gloves when a majority of fielding metrics/matrices have him in the 2-3 worst CFers in the game. That award is as much for offense as defense. I just give voters credit for not giving it to JD simply due to his offensive numbers over the last 3-4 seasons.

Would I trade Poreda, Fields and Shelby/Allen for him? In a heartbeat. Of course, the Brewers will get a better deal somewhere if Texeira is really going to get a $200 million contract to play 1B. I just think sinking in that kind of young/affordable talent into a trade for someone not named Pujols...at a position where unless you are a huge difference maker...the ROI is marginal. Back to Moneyball, and the idea of playing the likes of Hatteberg and Dan Johnson at 1B with the big money instead going into the starting rotation and key position players like Tejada and Chavez. If you start out with the idea of having above-average performances out of catcher, SS, 2B, CF and the rotation, then you can build outwards from there. With Beckham, Ramirez and AJ, we're pretty darned solid...although AJ will need to replaced eventually or eased out (like Varitek in BOS) and the CF/leadoff position addressed as priority #1 over 3B, 2B (unless it's Roberts or Hudson) and the 5th starter's spot.