caulfield12

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ May 5, 2007 -> 09:18 AM) The fences are not moving back. Not only would it involve major construction, but the Sox already took our more than enough seats back in 04. There is just no room for them to be moved back. Not going to happen. Then you can move home plate back and push back the distance a little down the lines especially...345, like original Comiskey Park.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 5, 2007 -> 07:52 AM) Crede had a big year last year and was a key element to the championship. That was long after most of this board, myself included, gave up on him. Anderson is a question mark, but to blame Walker for his troubles would be ridiculous. Uribe is what he is. He's a guy who is going to swing hard. You can only hope he becomes more selective, but a gap to gap hitter is something he never will be no matter who you have as a hitting coach. Ozzie wanted to move Iguchi down in the order so he would hit more home runs. Mackowiak had the highest batting average of his career last year with Greg Walker the hitting coach. Cintron had a typical year for him last year. This year its a different story for both of them so far, but Mack is notoriously streaky and Cintron's surgery appears to have had a negative effect on his ability thus far. If you moved back the fences (like Detroit's original dimensions), Uribe, AJ, Cintron, Sweeney, Mackowiak, Iguchi and Anderson would have to concentrate more on putting the ball in play and less on homers. Yeah, the White Sox had faith in Crede and Rowand, but, after a World Series, there's just not as much patience with White Sox fans, especially with the Cubs seemingly competitive because of the money they went out and invested in their team. KW didn't do anything at the break last year (except MacDougal) and he didn't obviously improve our line-up for 2007, except for the bullpen. I don't even know if that's possible to move back the fences again, without doing major reconstruction of the bleachers, bullpen, Bullpen Sports Bar, picnic area and/or losing lots of seats....

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 5, 2007 -> 07:40 AM) If counseling is too extreme a suggestion, I'd suggest you take up another hobby besides the sox . Let's not get too crazy about the poor play. Either the sox start hitting or they'll be trading players come July. But we do have a few months in between I can't even stand watching the games, so I can at least look forward to having a different composition to our line-up. Let's face it, we've been this malaise or slump for 100 games now (45-55). Something has to be done to shake things up, as staying the course didn't work. In fact, I wonder how many die-hard White Sox fans have watched every inning of every game from last Saturday on? It's not as difficult as 2005 (August/September) to tune them out, because there was such great drama at that time seeing if Contreras and McCarthy could hold off the Indians. Many posters are making similar comments, like they can't even get excited about going to a game. My friend in LA gave away his tickets for last night's game, and he's usually very optimistic about the Sox. IMO, it's better for them to demonstrate they don't have it, instead of being "in-between" in June and July and leaving KW lots of questions as to whether he's a buyer or seller. It sucks, but I think it's reality. Everyone sensed it in the second half last year, how is this season any different, except for the fact we have to chase down 3 teams instead of holding Minnesota off? Heck, we will have to chase down the Yankees, Blue Jays and A's too for the WC.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 5, 2007 -> 07:24 AM) People have to get off the misconception that Greg Walker has his players swinging for the fences. Besides AJ, who swings for the fences that really had not until getting with Walker? AJ is 240 pounds. As guys like that get older they tend to become guys who will swing for the fences more, besides you get paid at a much better rate when you put the ball into the seats. Bringing in another hitting coach is not going to make the White Sox predominantly gap hitters. If the personnel doesn't change the offense and its approach will stay the same. The offense will not remain this weak the entire season. You can only hope they don't put themselves in a hole they cannot get out of before they breakout. The White Sox offense was terrible until the end of May in 1983 but then they picked it up. Carlton Fisk was hitting worse than Konerko is right now and he almost was the MVP that season. I think the biggest question marks are around Crede and Brian Anderson, but what is the offensive philosphy of Uribe, or Iguchi, for that matter? Mackowiak and Cintron? Thome and Konerko are not going to change, obviously, nor is Jermaine Dye. Maybe Tadahito is confused with all these line-up shifts and whether the Sox want him to hit for power or sacrifice himself for the team, like in 2005.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 5, 2007 -> 06:35 AM) Of course, based on needs...what teams would be the best "fits" for the following players? PERCEIVED VALUE of White Sox players to other teams...just hypothetical, to start a discussion 1) Buehrle...not even close right now 2) Jenks...may be overrated, but teams get super-desperate for bullpen help in June/July and overpay 2A) Garland (don't think it will happen until offseason or into the 08 season) 4) Dye 5) Vazquez (if Buehrle and Garland go, why keep him?) 6) Contreras 7) Crede 8) Thornton 9) AJ 10) Uribe 12) Erstad 13) Pods 14) Mackowiak 15) Cintron I'm going to keep a tab on deals offered by fans of other teams. So far: Harden for Dye and I can't even remember (Buehrle or Garland?) Crede and Buehrle for Willits, Aybar and Saunders/Santana Brandon Inge for Joe Crede Milledge for Contreras Dye for McPherson and Saunders Erstad for Rondell White (love that one, lol!) RP Jordan Tate and Craig Monroe for Pods (I think we have a winner, although Monroe would fit in TOO well with the Sox HR/K philosphy) Neifi Perez for Cintron (gotta love their gumption to suggest that one) At least two people have said they'd want Erstad...a few would like Pods and everybody seems to be interested in Crede because they haven't seen him play all year long like we have apparently

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 5, 2007 -> 07:10 AM) I stand by my statement that changing coaches in mid season is risky and a final act of desperation by a team. Perhaps it is desperation time. I'm guessing that come Monday, it will be all right, but if not, Walker may be having a very unhappy meeting with K-Dub and Oz. But the problem goes well beyond Walker, the organization for the past couple decades has preached long ball. Which has me amazed we've done that without at least one poster boy for steroids. Players coming into the organization have to notice what gets rewarded on the 25 man roster. But bringing in someone new, and if he starts wholesales changes, we could be throwing in the towel quickly. If all it takes is a tweak, Walker is the guy to do it. If we need a sledge hammer and time, start waving the flag and have Spring Training II only when the results count for real. I think the best way to be competitive is to build around our pitching staff and move the fences back to their original dimensions or beyond...the only sluggers we'll still have on the team for next year would be Konerko and Thome, and Thome's contract expires after the 08 season. Let's be realistic...players like Sweeney and Anderson are gap hitters. If you take away the idea they have to hit 15-20 homers and just be "players" (which they would have to be in Tigers Stadium), then you might see some results instead of everyone (including Josh Fields) adopting the "lift and pull" approach. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 5, 2007 -> 07:02 AM) The White Sox led major league baseball in batting average with RISP last year. Well over .300. Not bad considering Walker was the hitting coach. Watching last night's game, the players seem less than enthused to be out on the field. I know Grinderstad was supposed to bring that extra intesity, but I really don't see it. Maybe they are resigned to the fact that they aren't very good right now, but they must keep battling. To be fair, if Walker must be fired, so should Cooper and so should Ozzie. Joey Cora too. And who do you get to replace Guillen in mid-season? Bobby Valentine? Buck Showalter? Cito Gaston? Seriously, Jerry Manuel was given three full seasons before the knives came out, and he wasted a great team in the second half of 2003 that had the ability to win the World Series. This White Sox team is obviously not as good as the 03 team. I think Ozzie and KW would relish the challenge of rebuilding this team from essentially the ground up. They've delivered one World Series to Chicago...and everyone who watched intently in August and September knew this club was dead man walking. If anything, I would rather fire KW than Guillen, but neither one is going to happen...heck, I doubt they're even discussing a Walker firing at this point. KW does not do things to pacify the fans. I see him being stubborn and arguing until the end that Walker's methods are sound.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ May 5, 2007 -> 06:07 AM) Williams failed to address post all star break problems and his bench he put together in 2007 is horrid! Mackowiak and Ozuna ARE bench players, not regulars or starters. Molina is horrible, I would go with Wiki Gonzalez and hope to get some offense. Hall was obviously supposed to be a big part of this bench, that's a big loss offensively. Cintron is still recovering from surgery and is overpaid for how we utilize him. Good place to start off in ditching players, along with Mackowiak. QUOTE(beck72 @ May 5, 2007 -> 06:19 AM) It's two different problems. Last year's poor 2nd half had more to do with pitching--both SP and bullpen. The offense this year has been horrible. Will it be this bad all year? No. But you're right. The AL Central is too good for the sox to struggle for an extended period. The sox could be chasing some teams all year. He addressed the pitching problems. No GM in the world could count on having all his hitters barely hitting their weight. The sox bench is fine. If the sox [or any team] has to worry about the bench carrying the team, they are in big trouble. I'm not going to blame this on Mackowiak or Cintron not hitting. It's a team-wide epidemic. The one thing you can do is wonder why our best replacements are Sweeney (who projects to be very good 2-3 years from now) and Luis Terrero...

Of course, based on needs...what teams would be the best "fits" for the following players? PERCEIVED VALUE of White Sox players to other teams...just hypothetical, to start a discussion 1) Buehrle...not even close right now 2) Jenks...may be overrated, but teams get super-desperate for bullpen help in June/July and overpay 2A) Garland (don't think it will happen until offseason or into the 08 season) 4) Dye 5) Vazquez (if Buehrle and Garland go, why keep him?) 6) Contreras 7) Crede 8) Thornton 9) AJ 10) Uribe 12) Erstad 13) Pods 14) Mackowiak 15) Cintron

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 5, 2007 -> 02:00 AM) Please Well, at least now some legit discussions start. Trading Danks is silly, unless you can identify an even better player (in multiples, Masset AND Danks for McCarthy), and contending teams are not going to take a rookie pitcher to get them through the heat of the pennant race, unless he throws exceptional stuff, like Verlander or Liriano. A big decision in predicated on keeping Buehrle or not...if you can't, then that opens up a whole new cans of worms, because it doesn't make much sense to keep Garland, Contreras and Vazquez around if you're going to have to go out and replace Buehrle with Russell or Gio (and not a trade or comparable FA). If you keep Buehrle, then you seriously consider keeping Garland and Vazquez and getting competitive for 2008, instead of 09/10, as the Indians did (rebuilt in 2002, competitive again in 2005). The problem here is we have no Bartolo Colon that can net us Sizemore, Lee and Brandon Phillips in return. We're not going to trade Konerko, and there's a SLIM chance we deal Thome. Of course, the other obvious problem here is we don't even have a legit future All-Star among Sweeney, Anderson, Fields and Owens...the way it looks today. Heck, we don't even know for sure if they're capable of being starters on a major league team. By the way, whoever said Rowand being who you rebuild around is off their rocker, same with Ichiro or A-Rod or any of those names. You add those types of players when you're ONE player away, not 5-7, from being a 90-95 win team again. Pretty soon, there will be no reason not to ditch Crede, AJ, Uribe, Iguchi, Erstad (let him elevate his value as much as possible, then trade him...if he continues to show that he's healthy, he can be a valuable addition to many teams looking for a spot starter, to strengthen their bench and for a player who's been through a pennant race)... Get what you can for Dye, Mackowiak, Pods (let him play and show he's healthy so we can dump him, in June and July we can "market" Erstad and Pods around both leagues)...as well as Cintron. You obviously keep Hall and maybe Ozuna, although Ozuna should never be a full-time player. I like him as a bench player, he brings a positive energy to the team. I think you also have to look at any offers for Jenks, because he's more valuable to another team than he would be to a rebuilding team and we have any number of replacements that could save 65-80% of games...or we could always go the cheap route for someone like a Todd Jones or Borowski in 2008 or 09, as the Indians did when Carmona and a host of relievers failed en masse. Aardsma as closer Sisco Logan Masset Danks, Gio, Russell, Haeger, Broadway, McCullough, Phillips, Egbert Hall Ozuna Konerko Thome back-up catcher/AAA Terrero/AAA Anderson Fields Owens Sweeney

QUOTE(spiderman @ May 5, 2007 -> 05:41 AM) At what point do we become resigned to the fact that the White Sox are an average team - at best ? Since the all-star break last season, I believe the White Sox are actually under .500 - and we're talking somewhere around 100 games now. For the most part, our pitching staff has been fine (though Contreras in particular just does not look very good), but this offense just stinks, and it was my biggest concern entering the season. Did I think it would be this bad ? No, but I did know it was way to HR dependent, and it struggles to score runs when it doesn't hit HR's. This is too good of a division to struggle through an extended period. Yes, it's still early, but I don't know that we're good enough to be trailing 3 teams, and having to play catchup with an inconsistent offense. Am I overreacting ? Maybe, but this is based on 100 games now of this team just not being better than average. 45-55 and the worst team in ST, which usually doesn't matter, but I think it was a sign this year

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:53 PM) is better than snaggletooth. She is not necessarily a hottie. But compared to snaggletooth she is a keeper. take off all the make-up and i still prefer Kirsten Dunst...she seems like she'd be more fun to be around

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) We all do, but that's why we're concerned with his decline in stuff. Hopefully he's found the release point on his forkball. Cooper told Hudler they were hoping that he would get it back this summer when it warmed up.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:50 PM) No, I don't think they are happy. They shouldn't be.....that team is brutal. I wish we would have signed Preston Wilson though. That's what our season has come down to...wishing we had Preston Wilson or Joe Borchard as option in the OF. Sad that we've already given the Cubs back all the hard-fought momentum we'd gained in 2005 and 2006. And to go through the Bataan Death March of White Flag III (sorta counting 2002) trades will be even more depressing...except for the fact that whatever position prospects are acquired will give me some reason to be hopefully optimistic about 2008, IF we can keep Buehrle.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:46 PM) I saw the movie today for free at a Juniper event. They rented out the theater in Yorktown, you had to sit through an hour of marketing BS about their products and then it was free movie. Mary Jane is nasty looking. The minute the other blond showed up, you drop snaggletooth and you move on to hotter girls. Opie's daughter? She looks better than in The Village or Lady in the Water, but she's far from a hottie...although she has improved markedly. I guess Jessica Alba, Kiera Knightley or Miranda Kerr (my new favorite hottie, Victoria's Secret Angel from Australia) would be too much of a distraction!

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) On the possible bright side for me, Rowand, aboz, etc., I think there could be an issue looming which has Ozzie making an idiot out of himself written all over it. MLB is going to ban alcohol from the clubhouse...I can't wait to hear what Ozzie thinks about that. Well, LaRussa had a DUI in March and his player died and the team is controlled by a brewery....interesting soap opera this season has become for the Cardinals. Think their fans are happy with Jocketty copying KW this offseason?

QUOTE(Capn12 @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:44 PM) While I'm not agreeing or disagreeing on the value of Jose, Milledge, etc.....name one in our system who is gonna actually project to be a MLB caliber player? Cunningham and Sweeney are the best (and only) bets right now. We might have to bring up Fields, hitting .225, to replace Crede...hitting .175. Give it 2-3 more weeks of this disaster.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) I can't believe I missed Spiderman 3 and shooting pool for this crap. I am an idiot. It was pretty good, but too many plot lines and not enough Mary Jane. It was hard to keep track of the various "villains," and the CGI's not enough to keep your attention anymore.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Considering that the Angels are pretty good teams year in and year out. How is it that they draft such good players and just have a minor league system filled with talent. I thought if you draft down in the order you cant have a good minors system. I wonder how many football players they have drafted. Kendrick, Cabrera, Willits, Murphy, Izturis, Figgins, Aybar, Wood, Matthews....that's more athleticism on their 40 man roster than we've produced in 10-15 years of position prospects. that's not including Morales, Weaver, McPherson and Kotchmann

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:21 PM) Ha, I was watching the Game 1 DVD as well today. His wind-up was much quicker then also, and he rarely threw his slider. Yay, Vince Vaughn is there to cheer us on at least. LOL. Maybe they will name him the hitting coach in the tradition of "Swingers"

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:13 PM) Royals fans are morons. They could've gotten more for MacDougal, easily. This is the same fan base that would rather see their team get 13 hits instead of winning. They also thought their magical 3rd place finish in 2003 would lead them to the promised land after signing Benito Santiago and Juan Gonzalez. DJ? Are you kidding me? Rob didn't run down the line like that in his first at-bat. I think the second half of 2003 with Jose Lima and Runelvys Hernandez faltering proved to Royals' fans that the first half of the season was a mirage. After shedding Damon, Dye and knowing they were going to lose Beltran in 2004, there was little reason to be optimistic. Any team relying on Darrell May, Chris George and Kyle Snyder is/was doomed. And their Pythagorean was 78-84.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) I just feel like Carlos receives so much criticism when he was one of the better offensive players in the last two decades for the Sox. But he's not a superstar...yet he and Ordonez were paid like one. I know, a lot of starting pitchers are paid $10 million plus, but it's easier to win with a good pitching staff than the Rangers' or D-Rays' offense.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:06 PM) I'll take my chances with C. Lee's lack of hustle but offensive talent, thank you. And we'd be in the process of selling off Carlos or paying him $16-17 million per season to be a member of a fourth place team.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:05 PM) MacDougal has never had success as a closer? How do you know Thames wouldn't done anything on an 0-2 pitch? And every Royals' fan thinks that getting anything in return for MacDougal is a good deal because 1) his control, 2) his injury history. He's not a reliable closer over an entire season. He's never put together two good halves in a single season.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:04 PM) As long as Ozzie/KW is in charge, Erstad will be out on that field. At least Erstad made a mistake physically, because he was hustling and trying to prevent a triple play. Much better than walking in there and ducking down like Carlos Lee. Seriously. And why has nobody criticized Contreras? He had a chance to get himself and the team out of there with a 2-0 deficit, not a 4-0 deficit. He's just not getting the big outs that he used to get, when he absolutely needed them.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 4, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Um, no. Did you watch the Detroit game? Nice job JD. KEEP THE LINE MOVING!!! How many closers are perfect? He had a horrible ball called in that match-up...the calls goes the other way and he's out of the game with a save. By your logic, we don't have any pitchers in our bullpen after Jenks capable of closing.