caulfield12

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) "Garcia sharp in rehab start for Threshers Phillies pitcher strikes out seven in three scoreless innings" http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/ar...b&fext=.jsp No radar readings? Florida State League hitters were probably expecting the fastball and weren't prepared for the offspeed stuff, just like the Angels last year, when he almost no-hit them. We're so used to thinking of Garcia and "ace" together (along with the 93-96 MPH fastball we remember from the 1999-2002 period) that it's hard to get used to the newer version.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 11:11 PM) Don't say that. Just because someone happens to pitch at the top of a rotation, it doesn't make that person an ace. Gil Meche is all the proof you'll ever need to prove that. He's their #1 pitcher, but there's no way in hell that he's an ace. Sorry, just a pet peeve. No offense to you at all, caulfield. Hey, that's what the Royals' staff calls him. They want to take the pressure off Greinke with Meche and Odalis Perez. He's always had "ace" stuff (see AJ Burnett or Josh Beckett), but he's probably accomplished the least of those three guys, and he's gone through a lot of health issues. I wouldn't be surprised if he won 15 games though. We'll see how he fares against the Tigers tomorrow. When you lock up with Schilling and don't blink, that's definitely a positive sign. He was seen as more of a 3/4 guy in Seattle, but he always had the ability to be a much better pitcher than that.

2007 PECOTA Projections: 11-11, 4.50 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, 148 K's One of only two thirtysomethings on the list, Vazquez, 30, is coming off of his second straight season of at least a 3:1 K/BB, a key performance indicator. Vazquez annually posts higher ERAs than his peripheral stats indicate, in part due to pitching in some tough parks, such as Chase Field and U.S. Cellular. Despite this,he has improved in both years since his difficult season with the Yankees in 2004. from cnnsi.com

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) You guys mushed Gio What does "mushed" mean? The White Sox took him out of the game due to pitch count after the fifth.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 10:35 PM) BOO! scared you, didn't I? hello, Delray Brooks

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 10:08 PM) Unfortunately, many people seem to have adopted this view that the Tigers' pitching staff is due for a substantial dropoff because everyone pitched above expectations; both statistically and concerning innings pitched. Ignoring the fact Bonderman and Verlander are both 24, Maroth actually appeared to have turned himself around prior to injury, and a little pitcher named Andrew Miller awaiting in the minor leagues. The Royals are going to be tough if they can get outings like this by DeLaRosa. He's never had good control, but he shut down the Tigers most of the game and Riske (yes, that Riske) got the save pretty effortlessly. Magglio looks bad at the plate and especially in the field (looks like he has some kind of health isssue), and Sheffield appears, to me at least, to be a little overweight. It's a little different with Jose Mesa or Ledezma in the game, compared to the usual middle relief the Tigers put out there last year. I think they will miss Jamie Walker a lot. I-Rod actually led off. The Royals' fifth starter is Brandon Duckworth, but they're going with ace Gil Meche against Maroth tomorrow afternoon. I think they really wanted Brian Bannister to take the job, but he was shelled in ST. Elarton is coming back from injury and should be ready fairly soon. Even though they're 2-2, the pitching for the Royals has kept them close in every game except for the second game of the Red Sox series. OTOH, Alex Gordon is REALLY struggling so far out of the gate. But it's ONLY four games.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 09:47 PM) I still feel the effects of losing Fabio... there was no reason why he shouldn't have been put on the 40, IMO. We could have used Castro last year, but I sincerely doubt he would have been ahead of Sisco in the minds of KW and the organization, because he's not a hard thrower...and at least we know that other organizations have found some quality arms from our organization. Usually, the pitchers we deal turn out like Bajenaru or Joe Valentine. Every now and then, there's a Bradford, Francisco, Majewski, Fogg...even Rauch has done fairly well as a reliever.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 08:52 PM) Eek -- Vazquez just bombed in that second inning. He's given up a couple of runs... Oneli is in now. Kudus to Gio. You think he's on a (relative) fast-track this year? I'd imagine he should be at Charlotte by (or right around) the All-Star break... Phillips is just filler, although some project him as a better Josh Stewart. KW likes Gio and Russell the most, and I think the competition in AA is sometimes actually a better test of a pitcher than AAA...KW won't be afraid to jump a pitcher from that level directly to the bigs, if it's warranted. You don't imagine Haeger, Broadway, Floyd or Phillips are going anywhere, but there is a spot in Charlotte as the fifth starter IMO. KW's not in any rush, and sometimes it's better for a pitcher to get his confidence in the much bigger Barons stadium instead of pitching in Charlotte.

now hitting .176 (3 for 17) with a homer and 4 RBI's on the season...

with nine strikeouts. I know it's a non-major league Sox player, but just thought everyone would like to know. http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...cmcaax_biraax_1 you can follow it by clicking on the link They pulled Gio after 5, Vasquez kept it alive through the sixth inning...still a no-hitter

on the radar gun, and it's freezing out, literally...in Kansas City. His fastball is averaging 98-99, and those are legit numbers, because Jorge DeLaRosa of the Royals is exactly where he normally is, in the lower 90's.

well so far. 3 IP, 0 hits, 1 BB, 5 K's http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...cmcaax_biraax_1 As someone noted, Haeger has given up 2 homers and 4 runs so far in his game in the middle innings.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:35 PM) I knew that. It just slipped my mind. Only one of those guys is really worth much and the others are average if that. That is a great point. But as far as I can tell, they aren't exactly products of our minor leagues completely. They learned their own way in the Latin countries and of course we worked with them here, in our system, but neither of them is one of Our guys. Mid-average, loopy swing -- they had their own fabulous natural abilities. I'm sure the Latin American countries would love to take back Soriano, Cano, Cabrera, Mariano Rivera and Posada from the Yankees, lol.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:32 PM) Yeah, no s*** this is going to be pretty brutal. Especially that Tuesday game with Buehlre and his career 0-5, 4.86 ERA, 1.47 WHIP in Oakland. Well, on the bright side, no Willie Harris in CF or D'Angelo Jimenez at 2B. No fog or strange playing conditions, I hope.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) Sun/Mon/Tues = gulp On paper, we're 2-5 or 1-6. Luckily, games aren't played on paper, lol.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:11 PM) I would love to see the Sox make a run at Suzuki either at the break(although we don't have much to give up and they will ask for a lot, though we have raped Bavasi twice ) or after the season. Sweeney/Anderson/Suzuki would be a nice outfield If we are out of contention, almost everyone on our major league roster will become available at the right price. Of course, I don't think KW will go out and get Ichiro if we're in rebuilding mode, doesn't make sense at all. Especially if he can't be signed to an extension and we are letting Iguchi go as well. If we are in serious contention, we have bullpen arms, Fields, Sweeney and lots of minor league arms as well (but in AA and AAA, not the low minors). However, we raked the M's over the coals with both the Garcia and Thornton deals, not sure if they're ready to be embarassed 3 times in three years.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) Do you always have this much trouble reading before responding? I included Anderson in the first place. I specifically said players we developed and are still IN OUR SYSTEM. I left Webster off because I see nothing in his career thus far that shows him being a high end prospect and he hasn't been in our system since 2003, which is 4 years ago. And why do you keep bringing up unrelated topics like pitchers and Billy Beane? I'm not saying KW is a bad GM. I'm saying our system doesn't produce a lot of strong HITTERS, which is what the thread title indicates. So in the last FEW years, we have the following HITTERS that we have "raised" in our system who have put up more than one year of gaudy offensive numbers in the minors... --Anderson --Reed --Young That's pretty much it, and Reed and Anderson seem to have only proven they aren't great hitters thus far (though BA really had just one half a lousy offensive season). Go further back and you get a bunch of course, including Crede, Lee, Ordonez, etc. But unless I am missing something, I don't see many great offensive talents coming out of the system in the last 3 to 4 years. If I am missing someone who fits that description, please point them out. And I'm saying it doesn't matter at all what we produce, as long as other organizations value our players and will give us a Carl Everett for a Webster and Frank Francisco (although Francisco might be a stud, if he gets through his injury problems and screws his head on straight). We've always focused more on pitching than hitting with our drafts, because it's much easier to replace hitters than pitchers. Why did we win in 2005? Pitching, pitching, pitching. Borchard is the big bust that was supposed to replace Thomas, and his failure set the organization back, no doubt about it. Many GM's have proven you can put together so-so offenses with great pitching (Marlins, A's, Twins, Braves) and remain competitive. So I'm not worried at all about our position prospects. We didn't produce a catcher, we went out and got AJ and Hall without breaking the bank. KW has proven to be much more capable of identifying undervalued major leaguers (Thornton, Loaiza, Contreras, Uribe, Marte, Everett, AJ, Iguchi, Dye, Hermanson, Politte...hopefully Aardsma and Masset) than he has been at drafting and developing stud prospects. That's one label that seems to stick in his craw, and he addressed it at SoxFest specifically. QUOTE(TheOcho @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:15 PM) Wasn't Sizemore traded to the Indians? Colon for Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips (luckily they gave up on him one year too soon and rushed him to the big leagues or we'd be in even more trouble) Not quite AJ for Nathan, Liriano and Bonser, but VERY close.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 01:09 PM) and there's the answer(s) to Sir Pratt's question. It's not usually a regular thing to develop a .900+ OPS players. The Sox developed those two in the late 90s/2000, but they are good players nonetheless. Or you can look at the late 80's/early 90's, when we brought Sosa, Thomas, Ventura, McDowell, Hibbard, Bere, Melido Perez, Alvarez, Radinsky through the system at roughly the same time.

Or will they elect to go with Ponson? Interesting choice for Gardenhire, even though it's early in the season. Would it be fair to let Danks go out there against Santana? Would OG then counter with Contreras (since he pitched only an inning plus) and push back Danks to a road start in Oakland, aka The German "Hellands" at the start of Gladiator.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) Note that I said "last few years". We developed Lee, Ordonez, Rowand and others in that group about a decade ago, under some different leadership. Of the names you just mentioned, only Young and Reed were developed in the "last few years", and so far Reed isn't showing much. We're talking about the organization at present, no? I was thinking 3 or 4 year time frame - typical development cycle for high end prospects. Reed, Young, Anderson and Webster still fit that cycle you just delineated. That's the point, Reed was a reach in the second round (a great collegiate player without "projectable" tools or even a position, he also played 1B in college)....he became the minor league player on the year and was overrated by the Mariners. He's always been a fourth outfielder or spare part, I even thought the same of Rowand too. Morse never had a position and couldn't hit for enough power at 3B or LF, not enough range for SS. Olivo, it will take too long to go into why trading him was the right move. He did okay in Florida last year, but he's never going to be an All-Star either. I wonder if A's would rather have Chad Bradford, or a World Series title, because Neal Cotts was one of the many contributors (along with Garcia, through Olivo) to that World Series win. Not only that, but Beane traded Bonderman and Teahen away, let Jermaine Dye go (not to mention Tejada and Giambi) and got stuck watching an overvalued Loiaza pitch poorly after KW picked him up for nothing in the preseason of 2003.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:42 PM) Good points, though I disagree on Uribe (who this year looks a lot better than last at the plate) and Konerko (who really did do a lot of his growing here). Its been said by multiple people here, our system doesn't seem to develop a lot of great hitters. If you look at the guys who put up gaudy averages in our minors over the last few years, there aren't many, few have stayed in our system to the majors (Crede and BA), others came in already trained (Gload), and there aren't many down there now doing it (maybe Sweeney or Rogo, but neither are considered top tier hitting prospects). Question is, is it the coaches that are bad, or does the team not draft/sign the right talent? Or both? I think you're forgetting Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee. Oh, well. Sweeney is still considered a top-tier hitting prospect, along with Fields. Our drafting hasn't been great, but we've used a lot of our best minor league talent to get players for our major league roster, and it's hard to argue with the results, because we won a World Series using that philosophy. Long term, you, of course, need to develop 1-3 caliber starting pitchers in your own system, and that's been the big weakness of the Schueler/KW years, along with catching prospects. We produced Jeremy Reed, Anthony Webster, Anderson, Chris Young and Aaron Rowand....that's five center fielders alone in the past 5-7 years. We're somewhere between the #14-18 minor league organization in baseball right now, and we can really stockpile a ton of young talent if we trade away the core of our team...that's when KW will really earn his money and possibly lose his job 2-3 years from now. QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) I think you're forgetting Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee. Oh, well. Sweeney is still considered a top-tier hitting prospect, along with Fields. Our drafting hasn't been great, but we've used a lot of our best minor league talent to get players for our major league roster, and it's hard to argue with the results, because we won a World Series using that philosophy. Long term, you, of course, need to develop 1-3 caliber starting pitchers in your own system, and that's been the big weakness of the Schueler/KW years, along with catching prospects. We produced Jeremy Reed, Anthony Webster, Anderson, Chris Young and Aaron Rowand....that's five center fielders alone in the past 5-7 years. We're somewhere between the #14-18 minor league organization in baseball right now, and we can really stockpile a ton of young talent if we trade away the core of our team...that's when KW will really earn his money and possibly lose his job 2-3 years from now. Also, look at the Twins. Lohse came from the Cubs Liriano, Bonser and Nathan from the Giants Silva from the Phillies Santana was a Rule 5 pick Ponson and Ortiz are stopgaps, until Garza, Perkins, Slowey and Baker are ready You have to give them more credit for Rincon, Crain, Balfour and Neshek in the bullpen None of their pitchers are home-grown, because at least Buehrle came through our system, and Garland was essentially a product of our system/organization as well.

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) What of that had anything to do with my post? What manager on earth would continue to stick with Erstad/Pods in the lineup, albeit at the top-despite viable replacements? Ozzie What manager would alienate his younger players in order to serve veterans that don't deserve playing time? Ozzie Who will hopefully be gone in one year or less? Ozzie And to answer your original question-I think Masset probably has the best chance of being a good 5 man. I kinda wish he would've earned the spot out of ST that way Danks could have some time in AAA I love it when Sox fans run off the only manager to bring them a World Series title less than two seasons later. We gave Manuel the 01-03 seasons when he was obviously incompetent, and I think Bevington had a similar amount of time. Obviously, you love Brian Anderson. That's your prerogative. If he had played like he was expected to, there would be NO Erstad this year. Second, which of the following players would u have signed? Matthews Jr, Roberts or Pierre? And you don't mind spending that much money for those guys? Glad you don't have my checkbook. Who's the better option to replace Pods? A platoon of Mackowiak and Ozuna? Sure. What younger players have been alienated? Sean Tracey? Brandon McCarthy? Tracey was never going to see the White Sox roster again...we'll just have to wait and see with young Brandon, but I'm not optimistic he ever becomes an "ace" type of pitcher. Erstad could get on base five times in one game and you'd still rather have Anderson out there. Well, if the White Sox finish with 75 losses, Anderson WILL be out there everyday in 2008, so you might want to be a little patient for your Owens/Fields/Anderson/Sweeney outfield. Stilll waiting for the name of one manager who would have won it all with the White Sox last year? Probably Cito Gaston, right?

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:22 PM) Ill take an outfield of Anderson/Ichiro/Byrnes Let the downpour of comments begin on the parade for Mr. Byrnes. I'm hard-pressed to see him as a starter in the American League, he looks much better than he is over in the NL. Just thought about it, and Brynes and Erstad are the same age.

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:03 PM) If you actually read anything at BP, you would know that they too don't buy into the PECOTA projections for the White Sox. But with the division the Sox are in, and the horrid quality of our manager, I'd bet my house on 75 wins or less. What managers would win the division (since Cleveland, Minnesota and Detroit all will end up with better team ERA's IMO) with the pitching staff the White Sox CURRENTLY have? Everyone says they could have won the WS as the Sox manager in 2005, but how many of you would have held that team together when everything almost collapsed? It's easy when every reliever knows his role, and gets out and throws strikes. It's not so easy when your choices are Nelson, Tracey, Montero, Riske (amazingly average despite his overall stats), Cotts and Politte. You either destroy your closer (which is what happened the second half) or you leave your starters in too long...no good options when your starters are giving up 3-6 runs per game and your 4-6 relievers are garbage. Heck, I think we already have more blown 7th and 8th inning leads than the Twins had all of last year. Is that Ozzie's fault, or Thornton's? Is he supposed to use Sisco or Logan in those situations now, instead of Thornton? Tell me what you would do to fix all of the bullpen problems since April. 06. Is that because Gardenhire can ESP/Jedi Mind Trick the Twins into being the best bullpen, year after year, no matter who is on the roster....from Romero, Hawkins and Guardado to the current version? Maybe we should just trade OG and KW for Ryan and Gardenhire. Although we'd probably end up like the Braves and A's and Twins and never make a single dent in the playoffs.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Apr 6, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) We already have Torii Hunter on this team... his name is Brian Anderson. If Brian Anderson can finally play to his potential, he will probably put up similar numbers to Hunter. I'd rather take my chance with that, then sign Hunter. Castillo is interesting at 2B. Both him and Iguchi are about the same age, but Castillo is a year younger. Castillo would probably be a better option at 2B, if we were to sign either of them. Castillo is a GG 2B, has very good speed, and would be a good option for leadoff. But it would all depend on the price. Keep in mind, Castillo would be moving from turf to natural grass. At this point in his career, it would negate some of his advantages. He's not ever going to steal 30 bases again. I think Iguchi is just a very good fit with this White Sox team (except when he tries to bunt).