caulfield12

This would put the talk about JR never taking pitchers (even though this wouldn't be a FA deal) for 4+ years and being "cheap" to bed for quite awhile. Remember how much of a fight there was in the FO about whether to give Buehrle a contract of that length, and he was one of our homegrown World Series heroes and the most popular player on the club to many. FWIW, Mark isn't the type of guy to complain if another pitcher was brought into the fold at a higher salary. It would definitely energize and motivate the fanbase, not unlike the trades for Contreras and especially Garcia in 2004. It also would put us over a financial barrel if anything went wrong with Peavy, either injury or non-performance...KW's financial flexility, which was one of the selling points of shedding salary of veterans over the next 3 years, would be reduced substantially. Note to KW...it would have been nice to do this before we let the Tigers get out to a lead, but of course it's not too late. One wonders if KW and Towers spoke at all about this option before the season started. If we had added Peavy then, we wouldn't have heard quite so much about the 11% season ticket price increase.

They probably meant that the Sox would promote Beckham to Charlotte and move him to 3B, with Viciedo staying at 3B for the Barons. Just a thought....too early for anyone to think about moving him off SS or where he will end up in the majors in 2010 until we watch the major league team for at least another 4-6 weeks.

Retherford isn't close to being the caliber of a Biggio, that guy's going to be in the Hall of Fame, a lock. He certainly doesn't have the speed. He could make it as a utility player, but he doesn't have the defensive ability of a Nix or Uribe...it's a great story, sure, but nothing more at this point. The major issue with this Peavy deal is it would be insane to take on that kind of a contract, and it runs counter to everything we've ever seen KW do...with that much money being committed to, there's no way we should have to give back more than Poreda/Richard or Poreda/Shelby. If Peavy had a proven track record of success in the AL, that would be one thing. But if he was injured and/or didn't perform well, a player like that taking up 20-25-30% of payroll (possibly), it's just not justifiable. To think Danks or Beckham or other names is pretty crazy. 90% of the trade would simply be clearing that contract off the books for the Padres. You could perhaps compare it to the Garcia deal, but he was only on the books for three years. This one would be PROBABLY through 2013, a 4 1/2 year commitment to the fifth highest paid pitcher in baseball. And Ozzie was more personally involved in that 2004 decision, and also getting Sweaty Freddy to agree to a contract extension. It would be the biggest risk KW has ever taken, dwarfing the Wells/Lowe/Fogg for Ritchie move.

Wood is really shaken up. He just can't throw a strike with the slider or the curveball. Can't believe Wedge can keep his job with the Indians on the verge of being 9 1/2 games off the pace... Looks like they might have to trade Lee and DeRosa this summer. Two outs...bases loaded, just struck out Teahen with one out and bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th. The pesky David DeJesus at the plate. Wood survives. KC 2 GB, Sox and MINN 5.5 GB, CLE 8.5

yay, alexei....awesome clutch play to end the game and keep the tying run from coming to the plate sox win, 2-0 without Lillibridge now

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 20, 2009 -> 08:41 PM) Liriano is not quite there yet post TJ. He needs that extra year. He'll be good next season, just has to take his lumps. (though he's in the Verlander camp struggling against us) Liriano is lacking control and he can't throw that slider at 89-91 MPH anymore. He will have to use the change-up more often unless he wants to pull all the ligaments in his elbow apart. Dad gummit, Tigers win again, 6 games over .500 and rising. Seems strange that BA's OPS is lower this season than his career OPS, but he has had a lot of singles this season. Still better than Nix and Lillibridge in CF, though.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 20, 2009 -> 08:30 PM) Pods chokes...he really is bad at driving in runners. That's the one area we really miss with Juan Uribe and Crede gone. By the way, are you still in favor of starting Betemit at 3B against Blackburn tomorrow?

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ May 20, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) Alexei honeymoon officially over , wow Beckham looking more and more like a SS here. Beckham isn't close to being ready. Both Gordon and Viciedo have close to 10 errors already. That's what, 3, on Ramirez??? Ramirez is just starting to heat up offensively...he's taking some walks, making things happen on the basepaths, he's starting to warm up again with the weather.

Verlander, after really struggling early, has his BAA at the .212 mark and is at a pace for roughly 300-330 strikeouts. He's Zach Greinke again except flying under the radar because of the horrible start he got off to this season. The one thing about Verlander is he isn't able to pitch deep into games because of all the strikeouts and some wildness, but he doesn't need to worry about it with the bullpen they have going right now. Six games over .500 now unless the bullpen implodes like Kerry Wood last night against KC.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 20, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) Josh was pretty banged up last year as well. I hadn't heard that comment but I'm glad Ozzie isn't afraid to send the message to Josh. Right now Josh is a bad baseball player. He's playing poor defensively and even worse offensively and has really no chance at the plate. A small microcosym of Fields could have been seen last night in one at bat against Baker where he saw two hanging curves and a mediocre fastball and struck out easily. It was downright atrocious and if Fields had no chance hitting those pitches, he's really got no business being in the bigs at this point in time. I would further say that the Sox made a big mistake in both Fields and Anderson's development in the sense that they had identified flaws in there swings at the lower levels that would impact there ability to play in the majors and ignored those flaws until they got to the show, where they felt they would than implement the minor changes as the players would be more responsive to it. It wasn't the right way to handle it and I'm glad, based upon things I've heard and read that it seems as if the organization has changed that philosphy to at least an extent and is really working on teaching and developing these guys at a minor league level so they are actually ready to succeed and make an impact more quickly at the big league level. So you really think they should have deconstructed the swings of Crede, Borchard, Anderson and Fields right away, before they were ever even allowed to fail (which they didn't) at the minor league level? Harrelson keeps on going on and on about how the White Sox USED to do this, but now they're encouraging the players to start off with what got them drafted and then to look at changing things when the player was more open, when there was a sign of failure or struggle for the first time in the player's career since high school or college.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 20, 2009 -> 06:31 PM) If we need a 2nd baseman besides Getz/Nix, I bet we'd call up Ginter. Ozzie seems to like Eider Torres a bit more from everything I've read...

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 20, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) I don't focus on the money, only the long term benefit for the team. This really is Floyd's second year of full time starting so I think they will give him more time. If it lasts 1/2 a seaon, like with Contreras, then they may move him. But not until near the AS break. If we want to trade one enigma for another, we should see if the Twins would take Floyd for Baker...both have similar contracts. Baker was the much better pitcher last season, but he looks injured or not right mechanically (standing too straight up, like Gavin does at times)...and Rick Anderson completely reamed him in front of the entire team in the dugout last night for 2-3 minutes after his 44 pitch second inning. Seems like the Twins are really running out of ideas for getting him turned around. Not to mention that Perkins is now out for 1 and possibly 2 starts, and he has been their best pitcher for most of the early season. Baker used to throw about 93-96 consistently when he came up, but he didn't look anything like the pitcher he's been in the past last night. Maybe trading them Floyd and Shelby for Baker would be worth it. One also wonders if both have been affected (or become complacent) because of those guaranteed years that are now locked in for $15 million? Reading comments from both Gavin and Baker, they seem pretty nonchalant about their struggles so far this season...kind of same attitude that Garland and Vazquez got ripped for around here.

I would think the 2005 season, the winning or at least .500 records every season since 2004, 2008....those should be enough to justify giving Ozzie that kind of say. He's not deserving of a 10 year deal like Scioscia got, but maybe the gist of the matter is that Ozzie has to communicate what he wants and then JR/KW have a meeting with him and if they have a strong disagreement (which hasn't happened often, they're usually on the same page), then they'll make a decision together in private. I don't know if this was the case with Tim Raines, Razor Shines or Wallace Johnson, etc. Or Ozzie simply said things weren't working out and that was that.

''It has to be 25 guys and the entire coaching staff,'' Guillen said. ''We have to blame everyone in the organization, including me, because I talked to [chairman Jerry Reinsdorf] a few days ago and told him, 'When we left camp, that was a good ballclub.' ''All of a sudden nothing has worked. Who is to blame? You've got to blame everyone. Myself, the hitting coach, pitching coach, the players -- everybody has to take the blame because we still believe we have a good ballclub. But like I said a few days ago, I don't want anyone in there to start pointing fingers at someone. We've lost so many different ways, you can't point a finger at any department. And that's the worst thing that can happen, if we start doing that.'' suntimes.com

Quite a different story from Cowley...sounds more like KW has to sign off first. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...-ssep20.article

Buehrle found some amusement in beating the Twins for the 23rd time in his career, his most victories against any opponent. "I own them," Buehrle joked, with catcher A.J. Pierzynski adding, "that [comment] will be in the headlines." Interesting fact: White Sox have now won 9 of their last 10 at USCF against the Twins. tribune.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-2...0,1037410.story

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 20, 2009 -> 05:23 AM) There is absolutely no way I'm taking either Anderson out of the lineup or Quentin out of the 3 hole on a regular basis. I don't know why you would. It's the old leadoff argument. Certainly against Liriano, you should start Anderson. 1. 2B Nix/Ramirez SS 2. Nix/Ramirez 3. Dye RF 4. Thome DH 5. Konerko 1B 6. AJ C 7. Betemit 3B 8. Anderson CF 9. Pods LF Of course, if you bench Fields and Quentin's on the bench, then you're stuck with Thome, AJ and Pods against a LH. But this way, you're getting Getz and Fields out of the line-up, the two hitters who have been struggling the most. And Thome has been getting some key hits against lefties recently. Of course, it would be great to have Carlos back in the line-up and 100%...and I would guess we'll see Corkaroo as well, but it's hard to take AJ out of any game against the Twins (with the day game tmrw). Pods against a LH is a necessary evil, but still better than Lillibridge.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 19, 2009 -> 11:00 PM) Gonzalez is speculating that Contreras could eventually take Floyd's place in the rotation. According to BA he was throwing first pitch forkballs for strikes last night. Floyd is out of options so I presume he would move to the bullpen if this longshot (IMO) comes true. Here's the question. If Floyd has another 3 or 4 starts like his last 3 or 4 do you risk losing him and his new contract by exposing him to waivers? Considering in his last 21 starts his ERA is about 6.00 it would have to be a consideration. Ozzie, from his pregame comments, seems that he will be expecting from Jose at least one more solid start before he considers a recall. There's not really much of a probability of being competitive in 2010 with Poreda, Richard and ??? making up the back of the rotation. Exposing Floyd would be too risky...you put him in the bullpen if you have to, but he's pretty clearly expected to be part of the foundation moving forward. We're also moving into an easier part of our schedule, so he should do better against the NL and AL Central than against the AL East. If we were told they would put that $10-12 million from Floyd's deal into a FA starting pitcher, you'd have to at least consider it. Then again, having a possible #3 starter locked in for three more years is very difficult to part with, especially since the odds of Floyd returning to first half 08 form are probably better than replacing him for three years in a row with someone who can do the same for $3-4 million per season (like a Braden Looper type).

The bullpen can compensate a little, and perhaps Richard can put together back-to-back-to-back quality starters, but I'll believe it when I see it. With the home-dominated June schedule and playing more within the division, we should be able to at least get back into the hunt...and I suppose there's always the overly optimistic idea someone like Viciedo could come up and really spark the team offensively. Floyd is undoubtedly the key...don't think we can expect much more out of Colon unless he can miraculously get his FB back into the 93-95 MPH range on a consistent basis. And Danks needs to kick back into late 08 form. Alexei Ramirez driving the ball with power into RCF on a consistent basis would be nice as well. Just don't know what we have with Anderson, Fields, Nix or Getz, or how long Pods will stay healthy. For the time being, and with Getz struggling, it seems Ozzie is fated to plug Pods into the leadoff spot against all RHP for lack of any better options.

I think it would be hard to argue against this point, as well as the Tigers being the favorite to win the division. They have the best bullpen (for now), a good offense with veterans interspersed with younger players in their primes (Cabrera, Inge, Granderson) and the rotation becomes awfully tough if Willis can pitch as well as he did tonight on a consistent basis. They're doing this without much of a contribution at all from Magglio and Carlos Guillen. With Verlander back to his 2006 form, Galarraga struggling but a tough pitcher nonetheless, Edwin Jackson, Porcello, Willis, Zach Miner and Jeremy Bonderman rehabbing right now, they have to be the odds-on Vegas favorites. Getting rid of Sheffield undoubtedly has done wonders for that clubhouse, as well.

QUOTE (Cali @ May 19, 2009 -> 10:25 PM) I think Getz has a better chance at staying up. He's got a better approach than Josh at the plate, not to mention he's a lefty, which the Sox line-up doesnt have many of. Plus he's been stellar at second, which you can in no way say the same about Josh. I don't give Fields all that much more time to prove he's worthy before someone else takes that spot (coughDayancough) Viciedo will stay in Birmingham through the ASB, at least. He's finally made it up at .265 after a 2 for 3 night (in a surprising second loss in a row for the Barons tonight), but his OPS is in the low 600's and he needs to keep improving on his defense. He's really turned the corner, that's for sure. Three weeks ago, it looked like there was a small chance they might end up sending him down to Winston-Salem he was struggling so badly for about two weeks. The first move is to try Nix at third or a Nix/Betemit platoon or Betemit at 3B with a Nix/Getz platoon at 2B or just Nix at 2B and Betemit at 3B. Getz might need to sit out a game or two here as well, at least tomorrow against Santana, so you'll see Betemit and Nix in the line-up, as someone projected in this post-game thread. If the Sox continue to struggle and fall out of the race in July or August, then you can bring Viciedo up and see how he does. If he acts like he belongs, keep him up (playing everyday), if not send him to Charlotte for the remainder of the season...then bring him back up again in September if he holds his own for the Knights.

On May 19th and at the 38 game mark... 2000 Chicago White Sox 23-17/22-16 2001 Cleveland Indians 28-12/26-12 2002 Minnesota Twins 25-20/22-16 2003 Minnesota Twins 25-18/21-17 (however, they were only 44-49 at the ASB, 1/2 game behind Sox and 7 1/2 behind KC) 2004 Minnesota Twins 24-15/23-15 2005 Chicago White Sox 29-12/27-11 2006 Minnesota Twins 18-24/17-21 they would finish 96-66, ending the year with an amazing 78-42 run behind Liriano and Santana 2007 Cleveland Indians 25-15/24-14 2008 Chicago White Sox 23-21/18-20 Would be very nice to go 5-1 this home series, 4-2 would be okay and 3-3 not so good. It's still going to come down to pitching, biggest cliche in the book.

Fields, welcome to the bench for at least 2-3 games. You either will see a Nix/Betemit platoon or Nix alone if Ozzie chooses to go for defense first. Betemit does deserve a chance to hit against some RHP this year and show what he can do. Logically, Nix or Alexei (to see even more fastballs, he can take the ball to RF and bunt as well) should be in the 2 hole.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 19, 2009 -> 03:53 PM) This is comical post. First off, why do we need to sign 2 "front-line starters"? Danks, MB and Floyd are being counted on to anchor our rotation for the next few years. Secondly, sine you do feel we need "front-line starters" (your words), I guess you're insinuating Bobby Jenks would be one, since that was who my comment was about. And if you are, that's just laughable. Danks has had 7 starts this year. S E V E N. In 4 of those starts, he has allowed 0 or 1 runs. In the other 3 he has been bad. Yet, you are already comparing him to John Danks version 2007. WOW. Then, despite Floyd's success last year, his pure stuff and what we know his potential is, you are already penciling him in as a serviceable number 5 starter if we're lucky. WOW. Then, you mention yourself that 1-2 starters don't grow on trees, but you ask me where we are going to be finding TWO of them before next year. Really? Really? I'm waiting to hear where we're going to find two pitchers for 2010. Since even Cliff Lee had three really "average" seasons in his career...and at least half the posters here believe Poreda's ultimate destination is the bullpen. Can we be certain that Danks is a #1/2 starter based on one season and the Blackout Game? No more than we can assume the Quentin will be in the Top 10 in the MVP voting or that Alexei Ramirez will hit 20 homers over the remainder of the season. Even if that did happen, it wouldn't necessarily prove anything if they were so far out of the race that all those statistics were put up in stress-free games. I'm just trying to think outside of the box. I'm sure KW would be welcome to hear any ideas you have...and I said it wouldn't happen anyway, because he's already four years into his contract. I bet nobody here thought they'd see Scott Podsednik in RF, Jayson Nix in CF/LF/RF, SS and 3B (when he had no very little experience in the minors at any of those positions)...Brent Lillibridge in CF, etc. It's not as if I said Dayan Viciedo should go back to pitching.... As far as Gavin Floyd goes, there's been hundreds of pitchers who had his stuff that didn't even make it to the major leagues. Pitching is 90% mental, as referenced by the example of Kip Wells in one of these threads. We read for weeks and weeks how his peripherals and BABIP were "lucky" and how his success last year wasn't sustainable. Just like we heard how it would be crazy to go after Edwin Jackson because he would always be an example of hype over performance (like Bonderman). But Gavin Floyd being counted on as a reliable #3 starter for 2010? Really?