michelangelosmonkey

Hypothetical. Getz doesn't receive an acceptable offer for Robert. Now it's All Star break and Robert has been healthy, playing Gold Glove CF and has 25 homers, 25 steals and a .900 OPS. Farm pieces are all developing positively. Do you sell or does he become cornerstone? I think the case for keeping him long term is better than it was for Crochet. You'll have team control through the 2027 season and a GG CF with power and speed seems ultra valuable. I think that is also where we thought he would be at the end of the 2023 season. If that is possible...don't trade now for a B prospect.

Wow...what a dick response. I was going to counter with a list of top 50 prospects in the last 25 years that failed in the majors except no one wants to see a list of a thousand names. I'm not even sure what your list is...6'6" lefty pitchers who at 25 were top 5 pitchers in baseball, had pitched less than 200 MLB innings in their career and had already recovered from TJS? I just did a stathead search (wow...what a cool site). 1980 to present, Lefty pitchers over 6'5", who threw over 140 innings, with more than 12 strikeouts per 9 and a FIP below 2.7. Here's the list: Garret Crochet. That's it. In 45 years there is one guy like him and we want to trade him for some team's secondary prospects? (note: If you change the rules to 10 K per 9 and FIP below 3...you add one name, Chris Sale). Steve Carlton won 27 games in 1972 for worst team in baseball. It took years to get back to the WS...but ultimately he made 6 playoffs and 2 WS. I want to be that patient team and not the feeder system for the good teams.

I feel like you are ignoring the fact that Crochet is 25 and was one of top 5 pitchers in baseball. That is the kind of player you should build around. Teams can win WS with three aces...even if the rest of their team is mediocre. The 2005 WS team was built that way. 90's Braves, Diamondbacks WS team, Phillies from ten years ago. 70's Orioles. Mid-80's Mets. I think this is a real path. Let's say they keep Crochet until the trade deadline. He repeats first half of 2004 season but longer stints. Medical says he's built like a bull. Give him 10 year $300 million deal. Our payroll is basically nothing so even front loading it might make sense. You have Roberts + 3 top 60 position prospects + plenty of payroll to fill in. Honestly if they trade Crochet and get a 4th top 60 position prospect and a top 100 I will still rout for the team. I think offensive baseball can be more fun to watch. But watching Crochet, Smith and Schultz pitch can be a lot of fun too.

I wrote this many times but Sox payroll goes up and down with attendance...sadly (intelligently?) Sox base of fans that will go to a game irrespective of its talent seems to be about 17,000...in good years that's 30,000 (For reference Dodgers base looks to be about 40,000, Yankees and Cubs maybe 30,000...extra 13,000 per home game at $100 revenue is $100,000,000 in extra payroll) . JR seems to use attendance for his payroll budget...which honestly seems reasonable. I think more than any team the Sox were destroyed by COVID. Attendance went to 0 in 2020 and 60% of what it should have been in 21 and 22...thus the tight budgets You talk about failure to develop...I think Moncada was really one of those people struck with long COVID. At 24 he put up a .900 OPS and 5 WAR got COVID the next year and was just never the same. Maybe the same with Tim Anderson 19-20-21 he was a 4 WAR a year player and then just fell off a cliff. Eloy hit 45 homers in his first 177 games at 23 by 2020 then just never the same. Minors were shut down so Vaughn and Crochet lost key development time. Kopech took the year off. I don't know...with the White Sox getting historically crushed by the new draft lottery rules...I just think maybe it's the baseball gods. 2019 was the 100th anniversary of the Black Sox, The BG let us build up an amazing team and then just destroyed us in every way possible.

2011 Phillies starting five rotation was worth 30 WAR. Honestly if we go with the premise that the White Sox will never spend money for their roster (top five payroll in 90's, 00's, 10's and top 7 in 20's). Will never pay a top of the market pitching contract (Danks in 2012, Wheeler in 2020, Liam, Lynn $18 mill per year extensions for older pitchers) and that a young pitcher is worthless after TJS...sure. Trade your ace for a future because he is "depreciating". Chris Sale is about to win Cy Young at 35. Snell won at 30, Verlander at 36 and 39, Randy Johnson won 5 after he turned 30, Clemens won 4 after her turned 34. Scherzer 3 after 28, Elite pitchers can do it for a long time. You BUILD around elite. Trading blossoming elite for some teams second tier prospects just seems foolish to me. We were the worst team in history and yet we saw Reylo, Sale, Cease and Rodon all pitching in the playoffs for other teams. We just let our talent walk or trade for prospects....that's how you become terrible.

Concentrate on pitching?? How about this...we trade him for a 25-year-old, with two full years of very cheap control, low mileage on his arm, already had TJS but two full years removed and in his first full year as a starter was one of top five pitchers in the majors? How about we get that guy.

He's 3 days younger than Crochet who put up a 4 WAR in his first half a season as a starter. If the days are over where you get a top hitting prospect...why are we trading him????

Just because they haven't offered a pitcher top of the market contract (actually twice in 12 years) doesn't mean they won't. Sign Crochet

Getting a 3 WAR platoon player for Crochet would be an unmitigated disaster. He stays (my preference) or what he can bring are the keys to the future. I think we would consider ourselves fortunate to get the equivalent of what we got in the Sale trade.

Vaughn is better than Torkelson and we think he's a bust. Korey Lee is better than Dingler and we think he is a bust. Jobe = Schultz. By almost every metric Crochet was a top 5 pitcher in baseball in his first season as a starter and he's 25 with almost no tread off the tire. If we trade Crochet for Vaughn, Lee and Schultz and say just getting Schultz is a win...really? Montreal traded a power lefty pitcher at 25 and for the next 12 years he averaged 7 WAR a season and then he got better. We love prospects too much and what's even worse is that by all accounts...we won't even GET a team's top prospects for Crochet just secondary prospects. My point about Holliday and Mayo is that we write off our SSS guys like FG top 60 Ramos because he didn't do it in the majors but then say other teams SSS failure are just an illusion.

I know that is the narrative here...but they signed Liam 3/$54. Lance Lynn 2/$36. Both old guys. Jon Danks 5/$65 a dozen years ago. They offered Wheeler 5/$120. Plus their payroll right now is at near $0. To say it is impossible...with a new GM? We don't know.

I'm talking about 2026. No matter how you slice it 2025 seems a rebuilding season. But I think by mid season you could have Hagen Smith and Schultz pitching in the majors. Quero as your everyday C. Montgomery as your everyday shortstop. Ramos as your everyday 3b. Sosa everyday 2b. That could be a really fun young team to follow. I'm not writing off Thorpe...His first 7 starts he had 3 wins and a 3.0 ERA for a terrible team. He was untouchable in the minors. Having a right-handed control pitcher surrounded by 3 lefty flame throwers seems perfect. And yes, Cannon, Martin, Burke, Adams, Taylor, Iriarte, Eder...lots of good young arms...even if you want to throw Thorpe in this mix...that's 8 guys for your 4th and 5th starters.

Yes? Why do we hate our prospects and love everyone other teams? Fan Graphs had Ramos as the 60th best prospect in baseball at the updated 2024 chart...and we write him off because in half as many MLB at bats as Jackson Holliday he performed about as well? They had Montgomery and Quero at 16 and 40. Sosa put up a .930 OPS in Birmingham and .840 in Charlotte about what Marcus Semien did for us at about the same age....and he was never considered much of a prospect until he became a star. And honestly...2024 White Sox were an apocalyptic wasteland. Roberts, after a 5 WAR 2023 got in a funk and one can imagine the depression of going to work. Positive new coach, new hitting approach and a bit of luck...we all thought 7 WAR seasons would be his average. The bullpen had ten pitchers that contributed -7 war. 9 players contributing -9 War and a manager that lost the team. Merely replacing the garbage with 16 guys contributing 1 WAR and you have a 32 game improvement. One cannot overstate how bad the bad was last year.

He's 25! He has two full years of control and for half a season, his first real season as a starter, he was arguably the best pitcher in baseball. He's 3 years from TJ surgery, low miles on his arm and seems to have an easy repeatable delivery. By many accounts we have the best two left-handed pitchers in the minors. I think in our quest for a "super team" we miss how easy it can be to get to the playoffs with Skubal and Tyler Greene and a bunch of replacement level guys or Bobby Witt JR and four good starters. So my plan is 2026 Crochet, Schultz, Smith, Thorpe and Eider. Robert gets his career back on track, Quero, Montgomery, Ramos, Sosa, Vaughn, $100 million free agent RF, Benni. Bullpen from all the good young arms. Good new manager. I think you can win with that team, and I think if you get to the playoffs and Crochet is Randy Johnson...nothing is out of reach.

Yes as could Grant Taylor. The point is you are trading a fairly sure thing for three maybes. Sorry I'm broken...2021 we had Moncada-26, Vaughn-23, Robert-23, Zack Collins-26, Eloy-24, Madrigal 24, Kopech-25. 1st round picks, top 100's recently, all in the bigs contributing to a playoff team. All Star core in my mind at 1b, 2b, 3b, LF, RF, C, Ace and then...bust, bust, bust, bust, bust, bust, bust. Prospects are so often fool's gold.