michelangelosmonkey

I would actually be happy for him...as long as Rodon puts up a 4 WAR as well. i strongly rooted for Sox to bring in Q...though clearly I should have spent more time doing math.

I love Quintana too...and I would have been happy with a him as the fifth starter...but at the moment I'd take Rodon. I like your bold prediction of a 4 WAR but he's put up 5 WAR total in the last five years and it's been since 2016 since he's been great.

The doom and gloom on Cease is impressive. Working on his mechanics this spring IP H ER SO Cease 11.2 7 1 11 Every other fan base would be so excited by their 25 year old starter hitting 99 on the gun....and looks to be our 5th starter. We continue to scour the silver lining trying to find the cloud.

I can't believe what a total disaster Cease is. Why didn't they make that trade with Pittsburgh...useless management...total idiots. Spring Stats IP H R BB SO Cease 9.2 7 1 6 7 Musgrove 13 15 10 5 11 Soxtalk gonna Soxtalk

It's too bad...he looked pretty good three years ago. Four years on all we have to show for the Adam Eaton trade is Gio, Lance Lynn and Adam Eaton.

If I recall Rodon and Collins are garbage....and spring training is meaningless. But sure, mock away.

Honestly how is Collins not the back up catcher?? I know some of the insiders on here say that Lucroy is a lock...but why? Collins looks competent as a catcher defensively and he has good at bats and he's a lefty. Lucroy would be fine as a back up catcher but you can't carry three catchers...and why would you take old and fine over young, promising and left handed?

Wow that is aggressive correcting of a statement I didn't make. The way the whole quotation mark thing works is you're exactly quoting what someone says. Here's what I said "If after two years of sitting out he can come back for a late career surge..." I also said his arm fell off in 2019 which it did...they shut him down in August 2019 and he's coming back in July of this year. If you want to say "Dude they only shut him down for 23 months" fine. I'm just not sure what your point is.

The risk is he's just a shell of the guy he used to be. Adam Wainwright was TOR type pitcher, went out in his late twenties and then returned for a couple more elite seasons. Trade deadline is July 31st and CS is due back early July. If he throws four starts and looks really good...you can make the money work. Boston has lots of bad contracts and saving half of Sale's deal in a period when they are non-contenders should be interesting to them. Our biggest departure is on the "budget". Sox were top 5 payrolls in the 00's, 90's and 80's when the team was really good. Top five payroll now is $170 million and I'm not sure what you see that makes you think they won't follow the same pattern...cheap ass when we are bad but paying up when we are good...JR is a businessman and that all makes sense.

Not quite...he left early August 2019 and is due back July 2021.

Sportrac says the Red Sox Salary for this year is $180 mil...and $140 committed for next year...and they were a last place team. If you are looking at where to send the vultures...you go after high payroll, disappointing teams. If Sale could be talked into it...wouldn't you want him? 2018 he was 12-4 with a 2.11 ERA and 6.9 WAR...and then his arm fell off. If after two years of sitting out he can come back for a late career surge I can't imagine a more exciting, realistic, option.

Well yes...Sale would have to be on board. But why wouldn't he be? Seems like the Red Sox are in rebuilding mode. Sale got his WS ring and his payday from the Red Sox...but he had 7 years with the White Sox...he must have some good memories. And if he sees that he could come here and get two more rings??? Seems to make sense for Red Sox, White Sox and Sale...get it done.

I've mentioned this before but...what about Chris Sale? He's owed a lot of money by Boston...we should have a stock pile of money (please don't take us into the "JR is cheap" as he's had many top 5 payrolls when the team is good). He's been out for two years...he's only 32...could he be our Verlander? We get him at the trade deadline for three middling prospects (Stiever, Dahlquist, Jose Rodriguez) and give Boston payroll relief. When the playoffs come then we have Gio, Lynn, Sale and Keuchel or Cease? We don't worry about resigning Lynn and for 2022 we get a starting core of Gio, Sale, Cease, Keuchel and Kopech with Crochett building up to it.

Its completely fair to be skeptical about Rodon and his ability to stay healthy...but I do still look at the Mike Minor comparison...some guys eventually get through the injury part and find their TOR stuff. Minor put up 14 WAR in three years after being sore arm bad at 26 and missing all of age 27 and 28. It would be such a good problem to have to have Rodon be great this year and a free agent next year.

I don't hate the idea of Kopech and Vaughn in the big league camp for the two weeks or whatever it is they need to get an extra year. But I also think its not that risky to let them start in the majors as new collective bargaining agreement will probably tackle this gamesmanship. Honestly by allstar game SOME of our minor leaguers are going to take a step forward. If Lopez regains confidence and Mercedes is again hitting .950 and throwing out half the runners...ok they are both 28...but you throw in a Tatis, Jr lottery ticket and you could get an interesting something.

I'm not optimistic on Lopez...I don't really see a spot on the team for him. I was just laughing at an earlier comment about Lopez not being a major leaguer based on what he did today, while we were regretting not getting Musgrove based on what he did today. I think Musgrove is fine...I just didn't want to trade major assets for him and today Rodon looked much more dominating than Musgrove.

1) How could they not keep Collins? Lefty hitting catcher that looks legit as a hitter. 2) Madrigal looked very good defensively and very slappy as a hitter. 3) Mercedes has a great arm for eliminating the opponents running game...does seem to drop third strikes and pass balls...and looks imposing as a hitter. I think he has an option left so have him catch full time at Charlotte and impress some other organization? 4) Rodon looked fantastic...lots of swing and miss stuff. Man if he can be what we thought he was going to be three years ago...lefty starter...I know, I know. 5) I like the idea of sending Lopez to Charlotte...the guy has ability if they can harness it enough...package him and Mercedes at all-Star break and you might get something for him. MLB.tv is great.

Which starting pitcher do you sit while Musgrove starts?? Cease, Rodon and Kopek have all looked better than I thought Musgrove looked today...and none would have cost trade assets. Lopez gives up 2 runs because of bad defense and we say he doesn't belong in the major leagues while Musgrove gives up 3 because of bad defense and we wish he was on our team. White Sox PTSD....this team looks really good.

I've been a big supporter of Collins but the Sox sure are acting oddly with him...he's caught two games this spring??? I'm not sure what it means but in trying to read the tea leaves it seems they don't trust him to catch.

I've noticed the same thing but I also think this is such an unusual year versus past Spring Trainings. Most of those guys have not played in a competitive game in 18 months. A lost year must play havoc on their timing. I was quite confident in 2018 that between Adolfo/Lugo/Rutherford one would break out and be our starting RF today...then they all went and struggled in AA in 2019 (which is a big jump...and Birmingham hard place to hit) and lost 2020 to Covid and now we don't really think of them as interesting....this would have been so different with a full 2020...but they suffer from the inaction. I think until the all star break you can't really begin evaluating the Sox young talent.

A career dWAR of 3 means over 11 years his average year was + 0.27 so OK, good in the narrowest sense of the word. His career "runs saved above average" over 11 years at C was a combined...one. That seems pretty much like an average catcher. And again I'm not bashing Mauer who is a certain Hall of Famer...I was merely saying a lefty hitting catcher that is passable defensively is worth a ton. Switch to Darren Daulton who was slightly worse defensively than Mauer and quite a bit worse offensively and still had a 6 year 18 WAR run.

So your counter argument is "shut up"? The argument was that a lefty hitting catcher that can put up an .850 OPS and be passable defensively is very valuable and I used Joe Mauer as an example...and embarrassingly used actual defensive stats showing he wasn't a very good defender. How about we say Darren Daulton. He's more like Collins than Mauer...I just thought Mauer was more familiar. DD had an elite batting eye, decent power and was not a great defensive catcher...and starting at age 28 put up an average of 3 WAR per year for 6 years. And for those that say Collins is a terrible hitter...1200 career minor league at bats with .840 OPS. 600 NCAA at bats with OPS 1.000. Career spring training OPS 1.000. Yes his first fifteen MLB games he was terrible...his last ten in 2019 he put up a .950 OPS. The skills of elite strike zone understanding and + Power play in the majors...and even with a low batting average could be an .800 OPS regular. I prefer taking that chance over the chance that 34 year old Jonathon Lucroy in the midst of a five year slump is the answer to some kind of question.

He was never an "excellent" defender. He got his concussion in 2013. In 2012 he put up a -0.7 dWar. He put up 3 dWar total in the 9 years before his concussion. Gary Carter put up a 4 dWar one year. Molina put up 20 dWar in 10 years. He was a passable defender that was a great player because he was such a good hitter.

And just for fun (warning Cherry picking season)...the hitters that will likely be on the team and we should have some concern about. That means eliminating the Abreu's/Tim Anderson/Grandal/Jiminez group that are veterans that spring training really doesn't matter, the back ups that their hitting doesn't really matter Mendick/Leury/Engel and all the young guys that won't make the team...that leaves us with the guys that either are young unproven or like Eaton--old and some concern of fading skills. That group is Robert, Moncada, Vaughn, Collins (Sorry I think he's making the team), Madrigal, Eaton. Those six guys are slashing .300/.412/.471. Mostly the bad offensive results are a lot of the young that are not showing well (Adolfo) or that core of vets that honestly...why would they try. The guys we should care about are actually doing pretty well.

Only three of our regular starters have pitched: Lance Lynn, Gio and Reylo 11.2 innings pitched 3 hits 1 run 15 strikeouts. Only four actual relief pitchers: Kopech, Crochet, Heuer and Marshall: 7 innings pitched 4 hits 0 runs 8 strikeouts. So of the guys that matter they have pitched two complete games averaged 3.5 hits per game, .5 runs and 12 strikeouts. Stop worrying.