michelangelosmonkey
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Posts posted by michelangelosmonkey
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8 minutes ago, raBBit said:
Collins will hit in the MLB. Whether it is here or somewhere else.
That said, please find me someone who thinks he can catch in the MLB.
Having a lefty hitting catcher that can walk 100 times a year and hit 25 homers would be one of the most valuable assets in baseball....he wouldn't even have to be a good defensive catcher...just average. Its hard to get an exact feel on what the White Sox think of Collins. In 2018 they had a young, offensive catcher Omar Narvaez and signed Wellington Castillo...many thought they signed Castillo to help with the Manny Machado signing as they were friends. Zack was only 23...he played 74 games that year all at catcher and was the all-star selection for the Southern League. At the end of 2018...the young and interesting Narvaez (he put up a 2 WAR for Sox in 97 games at catcher at 26) was traded for Colome...which seemed to hint the White Sox thought they had a BETTER offense first catcher in the system. That off-season they signed a two year contract with a journeyman catcher, James McCann. In 2019 JM exploded out of the gate and was the all-star catcher, so he caught 106 games and they still had Wellington under contract so he still caught 50 games. Collins, 24, came up and caught 10 games in the pros and caught 50 games in AAA...also he played 21 games at first base for the first time...was that because they lost faith in him as a catcher...or wanted to add to his diversity as a player? In 2020 they signed Grandal...was that because they lost faith in Collins as a catcher or that they thought the team was near ready to compete, Grandal was affordable and a top 3 catcher in the league and 25 year old Collins wasn't ready to manage a staff of young pitchers? Why didn't they trade James McCann?? It's possible that teams saw McCann's second half slide in 2019 and just figured 2019 first half was an illusion and didn't offer anything for him. Why didn't they trade Collins...at that point he had just put up a .950 OPS as a young lefty catcher in AAA. Then 2020 with two great starting catchers they had Collins everyday in Schaumburg catching simulated games with the Sox top young pitchers....everyday for months. Doing nothing but catching under watchful eyes. So now it's 2021 and the Sox made no attempt to resign JM...so they must have a plan for back up catcher. I have written this before but I think this has been the Sox plan all along...it's just JM accidently being great and COVID screwed up the time line. Grandal catches 110 games and Collins catches 50 and backs up at 1b and backs up DH. He's only 26 and catching is a hard art to learn. As Grandal gets older they cut his number of games caught and increase Collins games caught. I've heard Catching is one of the hardest positions to learn...the White Sox have been grooming Collins to be everyday starter for the rest of the window. If you are looking for a comp...Ted Simmons (switch hitting but similar) was a high OBP, 20 homer per year, mediocre defensive catcher that had a 5 year stretch starting at 26 where he put up 25 WAR. Of course if they give the back up catcher job to Lucroy it will tell us 100% that they have no belief that Collins can catch....but what does "Can't catch" even mean? Narvaez was forced to catch 90 games because WC got caught with PEDS and he had seven errors, allowed 12 passed balls, and only threw out 24 percent of runners...and STILL put up near 2 WAR...good hitting catchers are valuable and good hitting lefty catchers more so.
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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:
Dude, go ahead and live in your fantasy land of praising corpses. Sox fans had enough with Corpse Ball under Manuel.
You post the same repetitive irrelevant tripe at least a dozen times equating other octogenarians who have absolutely nothing to do with the Sox hire.
Since early December, I haven’t posted much of anything regarding LaRussa in a non baseball context, beyond discussing the relevant Nightengale article last month noting Jerry’s omission of disclosing Tony’s DUI arrest from his “trusted family” during the hiring process, until responding to your absurd posts here.
The only error of judgment was to respond to someone “too stupid to argue with”. That won’t happen again.
Ah...so you ARE RagahRagah...that explains a lot.
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5 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:
While you are praising the value of hiring resurrected corpses, literal or figurative, you should listen to Jerry’s statement on why La Russa is a poor managerial fit last offseason (it’s in my sig). That statement was before yet another arrest under Tony’s belt.
Jerry’s defilement of the process and wise criteria defined by Hahn is another strike against your praise of all creatures decades beyond their shelf life. The literal corpse of Charles Comiskey or his predecessors would all be upgrades over the current one.
I didn't "praise" the hiring...I was actually for the idea of promoting Jirschele. And fine...JR said that a year ago. I just think management now realizes that they may have stumbled upon something amazing and you don't want to hand the keys to the new Ferrari over to the kid. TLR is almost certainly going to be better than Ricky and could be a nice transitional figure before you hand over the keys to some hot shot young guy they have been grooming...either on the MLB staff or one of the minor league guys like Jirschele. He could also be an inspirational leader that gets more out of his players than they knew they had like he did on so many other teams. Or he could be sitting drunk and napping in the dugout every day which is your position. Doesn't matter...the argument made was that the hiring of TLR was "moronic"...my counter argument is that there are unique people in this world and that special skill they have doesn't necessarily disappear with age. Go ask Nick Saban. If the White Sox go 102-60 this year and win the world series I suspect your first post will be "White Sox win in spite of old drunk manager". Whatever. We are stuck with TLR and I for one and I think dozens of others on here don't want to hear your daily sniping in every topic "sure Robert looks good but the manager is old and drunk". It's boring.
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4 hours ago, RagahRagah said:
It's really hilarious watching you use simple logic and see people bashing you childishly who clearly are having the logic go over their head.
This is spot on. But context just doesn't matter to some people and they only see things in black and white.
For someone to call you stupid or drunk for simply pointing out that a 76 year old alcoholic probably isn't as sharp as he was 10 years ago (maybe you could... listen to him and surmise that) and grasp that the game has also changed much since then is utterly hysterical and ignorant as fuck. Christ, the blinders that some people wear around here... tends to lead to tunnel vision. There are so many elements (some merely being common sense) pertaining to your argument that are just not occurring to these posters. Not to mention the fallacies.
Mr. "Too stupid to argue with" (monkey) is showing some major irony. 108 year old risen from the dead Lombardi. Lol OK. Flawless argument there, dude.
HAHA...I almost started to argue with you.
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2 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:
I will be really disappointed if Lucroy makes the team. He had a REALLY good five year stretch offensively and defensively but that was five years ago. I get that he had that neck injury...but he's 35. He's righty. And no major league team wanted him when they could have had him for free. I'm not sure what he could do in a handful of spring training games to convince me to take him over a lefty that is 9 years younger. If they take him over Collins there is something horrible about Collins that we don't know about.
And I'm looking for a stick to beat this dead horse to death but...I think an interesting comp for Collins is Jorge Posada. He had an elite batting eye as a minor leaguer and decent power but not very good batting average. He didn't reach the majors until 26 and was back up catcher catching 50 game. 27 and 28 he caught 100 games and then after that he was the Yankees regular catcher. He was never great defensively but averaged 4.5 WAR per year for 8 years.
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11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
Might as well throw LuCroy in the mix too.
I will be really disappointed if Lucroy makes the team. He had a REALLY good five year stretch offensively and defensively but that was five years ago. I get that he had that neck injury...but he's 35. He's righty. And no major league team wanted him when they could have had him for free. I'm not sure what he could do in a handful of spring training games to convince me to take him over a lefty that is 9 years younger. If they take him over Collins there is something horrible about Collins that we don't know about.
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4 hours ago, tray said:
During the White Sox 2005 playoff run including the World Series, how many games did AJ not start in?
I'm asking, because it seems to me that the primary value of a back-up catcher during the play-offs (absent some unexpected injury to the starting catcher) may well be as a
pinch hitter. LaRussa would never start Collins or Mercedes or even Lucroy in a Wold Series game over Grandal, for example. But oif a situation came up where the Sox could use a blast to get back in the game. it would be great to have Mercedes step up to the plate for Poquito (Madrigal) or Eaton or Leury.
AJ didn't catch 34 games in 2005...for the Sox he was generally around 30 days off catching a year. One of the things people don't seem to get is that Collins is a left handed hitter on a team dominated with righties. I will accept that Yermin is a better hitter than Collins but I'm not convinced he is significantly better. Collins minor league career has had more than double the walk rate than Yermin...20% vs 9%. Having a good batting eye is a good predictor of future MLB success. Collins and Yermin have roughly equivalent power...the one skill that Yermin has strongly over Collins is batting average. So really the blast in the 9th as a pinch hitter is no more likely off of Mercedes than Collins...basically he's more likely to get a single and Collins more likely to get a walk. Strategically though you want that good hitting lefty bat off the bench.
The other factor people are ignoring is the future...IF Collins can become a league average defensive catcher...and remember he went to the alternate site last year to work daily with the best coaches they had...and they hired a new catching coach that is supposed to be a guru...so IF he can do that...all of a sudden you have a 26 year old lefty hitter catcher, with an elite batting eye and plus power to transition to as Grandal gets older.
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4 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:
Are you saying that 20 BB = 20 singles?
Its a mathematical formula.
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17 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:
Those OPS's are HEAVILY bloated with BB's. He walked a lot, great, ho hum. But at the same time, he hit .244, .224. & .234 with pretty ugly K-rates. His Slg wasn't bad over that time but he struggled mightily to make contact. Yermin's slightly better total OPS is based on hits. An OPS matters how it was constructed.
My statement of "struggled mightily" is out of context when you mentioned his lofty college numbers. his 1st 3 minors season dropped mightily from college stats.
Bloated with walks?? OPS doesn't matter how its constructed...walks are a valuable skill. Go find me a useless 100 walks a year guy. Still I hope they are both great.
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17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
I'm not convinced of that either which is why I had hoped he was given a legit look before now.
2020 was so frustrating in this. I raged against the EE signing just because we needed to find out if Collins or Yermin could really hit. But they didn't...and now we are in a fix...and honestly giving Yermin 15 days to "prove himself" in the majors while buying out Vaughn's year will prove nothing. I'm sure he still has an option left so letting him hit everyday in Charlotte and put up an 1100 OPS will get some GM's attention at the trade deadline.
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2 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:
Not pitching Yermin or hating Collins here. Just saying that placing their MiLB career stats side by side, defensively they average out fairly evenly, some better for Yermin and some better for Collins. Offensively, Yermin has been consistently better by a wide margin. College stats mean very little after draft day. Collins is a perfect example as he struggled mightily for 3 years in the minors before his one and only very good 2019. Then fell back again with the Sox. How is that a "better track record"?
If you're going use the term "better track record" at least use their minors stats before college stats. Minors much more relevant and recent. You like to "cherry pick" stats to back your view even when they are much more irrelevant than stats that go against you view.
When you say Collins "struggled mightly for 3 years in the minors" WTF? At 21 he put up an .880 OPS while a year and half younger than league average at A+, at 22 he put up an .820 OPS. At 23 he put up a .780 OPS in impossible to hit Birmingham, a year younger than league average at 24 he put up a .951 OPS in AAA. Yermin was CUT BY BALTIMORE AT 24. Age matters in the minors. At 25 Yermin had a .840 OPS at A+ when he was 2.5 years older than league average. He legit was great in 2019 in Birmingham (nearly 2.5 years older than league average) and Charlotte where his OPS was a bit better than Collins though being two years older. That's his track record. Glad you think I cherry pick my stats...please explain exactly what you are doing.
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1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
I like it but he hit neck and neck with Robert in AA/AAA when they were there at the same time and with a much better walk rate and people call what Robert did in 2019 across 3 levels phenomenal. Now of course Robert had great fielding and base running too and was younger, but we are just talking about hitting. Go check I'm not exaggerating . Batting averages, OBP, OPS both killed Birmingham and Charlotte.
I understand if you have doubted in the past if you have legit concerns about his fielding but as far as hitting goes the only hurdle he hasn't conquered is MLB and late 2019 and all of 2020 the Sox never gave him a shot.
I 100% agree that he can hit. I'm just not convinced he will hit as good as Vaughn...or catch as well as Collins...are be a clubhouse god like Abreu. Honestly the Larry Himes move would be...trade Abreu at his peak...put Vaughn at 1B, Collins as back up catcher and Yermin as full time DH.
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2 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:
Dude, yes he's 2 years older and a righty. The rest of your statement is just made up.
Bud...where have you ever seen anything about Yermin's defense in a positive way? He averaged 20 passed balls a year in the minors and I outlined his minors in the last post. Collins...has had accolades throughout college including the Johnny Bench award,...was top ten draft pick, A league all-star, AA league all-star...lead all minors with walks at AA...put up a .951 OPS at AAA...and had twenty really bad at bats in the majors before ending the season with 20 great at bats. Honestly the Collins hate around here is second only to the JR hate. Its fine to say you like Yermin...I like him too...but there is nothing I said untrue.
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Just now, ron883 said:
Stop it. Yermin has done enough to deserve a shot. There is easily enough room while Vaughn stays down to accumulate time for the extra year. Quit hating on Yermin.
Where am I hating?? He was 24 and released by Baltimore. AT 25 he had an OK year for Winston Salem...but 2.5 years older than league average. He was indeed GREAT in 2019. But then COVID. Whatcha going to do? I said I thought he was very interesting...but I don't see where he fits on the roster. I'm fine with him being up for the two weeks Vaughn needs to be down to buy back the year...but then what? Honestly you can't take him over Vaughn or Collins...there's just not a spot for him.
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43 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:
I’ve been a doubter but my god, if Yermin rakes again this spring you’ve got to give him a shot. Even if it’s just for a couple weeks while you keep Vaughn down for control reasons. Have to admit here is a real circularity to the anti-Yermin argument. “He’s not good enough to get called up...because if he were good enough, he’d be called up.”
I'm not sure where you see that argument...he wasn't even interesting until 2019...2020 got cancelled by COVID and the Sox had signed EE...now...no room for him. If he goes to Charlotte and hits .320 with 30 homers...someone will give you a prospect for him.
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1 hour ago, NCsoxfan said:
Yermin and Vaughn
So you keep the guy that is two years older, righty, worse defensively and worse track record? OK.
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11 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:
Him being 28 is a problem but EE being 58 last year wasn’t an issue? Does age or performance matter? I’m confused. Or does it depend on who were talking about?
I was in here loudly protesting the EE signing last year...but if you check the roster...he's not here anymore. If you get two of Yermin, Collins and Vaughn...who you taking?
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1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:
Yeh, there's a weird amount of hate for him. At some point you've just gotta say, "yeah this dude can hit, and is a legit hitting/DH prospect"
I haven't really seen the hate Yermin comments...I just think it's hard to understand what to do with him. He's already 28 and he's not as good a catcher as Collins (Collins gets a LOT of hate). He came to the States so late...25 at A+ it was hard to take him seriously as a prospect. I'm really intrigued now but I just don't know who you shove aside for him. I guess if he burns up AAA this year you could package him in a trade.
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10 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:
With your logic, the Bears should hire Ditka, finished with a Super Bowl and far superior record with the Bears than Tony's pathetic .506 mark and zero playoff success before Hawk Harrelson thankfully shit canned his ass.
Who in their right mind is going to hire a doctor, lawyer or money manager 10 years out of practice, setting aside one that is also a recidivist criminal?
And calling up the shitty presidents and congress be it a D or R, many who are senile and/or pathetically out of touch over the past decade, isn't helping your argument.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
With your logic??? Please don't make up my arguments and then say they are stupid. Comparing football coaches records to baseball coaches records is nonsensical ...30 NFL coaches with ten years experience have won more than 60% of their games...there are TWO MLB managers that have done the same...one died 70 years ago and the other is Charles Comisky.
Warren Buffet is 87 and he can handle my money any day. Spielberg is 74 and he can direct my movie. I absolutely would have taken a class on Physics at Princeton when the 75 year old Albert Einstein was teaching it. 70 year old Nick Saban can coach my football team. TLR never left baseball just left the managing...I'm not sure what skill set you think he has lost because he's gotten older. Coaching young men when you are 50 or 60 or 70 is the same thing...you cannot "relate" to their world...but you can lead them. Neither I nor you KNOW what it is that makes a coach/manager "special"...but I'm telling you if Vince Lombardi arose from the dead and wanted to coach the Bears I'd take his 108 year old bones over Matt Nagy. So taking a chance on TLR is not moronic.
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17 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:
TLR is RIGHT NOW a HOF-caliber manager in the same way that Dick Butkus is RIGHT NOW a HOF-caliber MLB.
Its merely more deleterious that a wealthy and famous "man" couldnt even have the ability to use his flip-phone to call a cab. Oh, and that instead of taking responsibility for his actions like a MAN, he pulled the "Im a HOF baseball person" bit. Honestly, TLR's kinda a whiny old b****.
Lot of CEOs, US Presidents, US speakers of the House, film directors, money managers, doctors, lawyers, football coaches, etc in their 70s still doing their jobs effectively. If you can't understand the difference between how age effects a middle linebacker and an organizational leader...well have another drink.
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6 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:
I was OK with the rebuild. I just never thought that the imbeciles who traded for James Shields and got this team "mired in mediocrity" should have been given the opportunity to oversee the rebuild.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking this way; their choices in this and last offseason are proving why we were reluctant to trust those morons.
That said, one can think this way, AND still enjoy the season.
So we are clear...you and many like you wanted the rebuild...think it was idiotic to let RH do the rebuild...think all of his moves are terrible...but still...excited for the season as the rebuild has gone so well. More drinks for everyone!
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2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:
I don't believe that, a decade, and gallons of booze separated from his last game managed, that the dessicated remains of TLR is RIGHT NOW a HOF manager any more. I think his brain has lost some sharpness in the intervening years, and I think that the booze has robbed him of some of his sharpness as well. I think his 76 years years on earth have robbed his body of the physical endurance needed to be at his best over 162.
Lynn might be good, or he might not be in 2021, when his overweight, 33-going-on-34 year old body may or may not hold up. What's more, is that over 162 games, EVEN IF Lynn is good, there's an equal-or-greater chance that Cease/Rodon/Lopez will continue to suck horses asses, walk the yard, and burn out the bullpen in 2021.
In terms of the competitive window [which was the point of that post], trading 1 year of Lynn for 6 years of Dunning absolutely was the wrong choice.
A million people a year get arrested for drunk driving...you are clearly drunk while posting right now...doesnt make you an alcoholic, an idiot or a monster...just a guy making a bad choice in the moment. TLR has an amazing record as a manager. Maybe he's forgotten everything he knows...but its not "moronic" to hire him.
As for your rantings on the pitchers? Sober up and we can talk.
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3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:
I'm not yet there in my thinking. However:
Think back to how this team wiltered down the stretch last season. Think about how this team got bounced out of the playoffs. Did you, or really ANYONE here think:
"Boy, that Alex Colome really fucked up this entire team, and shat his pants. If ONLY we could replace him, we'd be good?"
Or, did you, and really, most of us think last season, at the TDL, and down the stretch, and in the playoffs:
"For FUCK'S SAKE, we need some M0THERFUCKING STARTING PITCHING!!!!!"
So what did those geniuses do? They hired a geezing geezer alkie as manager, fired Mr. "Stay Tall. Throw Cutters. No Curveballs," and bought the most expensive RP they could find. While Hendriks is great, and worth every penny, I don't feel like that was this team's most pressing need. I never felt like the bullpen, or Colome was the reason for this team falling short. In sum, RH/KW/JR's choices this offseason felt like a moron who goes out and buys an Xbox and some weed the same day he gets laid off from his job, instead of taking a more mature approach to his life.
The other MAJOR thing that strikes me as moronic was the utter lack of attempts to extend your Ace BEFORE other SPs set the market, as well as trading 6 years of Dunning for 1 year of Lynn. There are other apparently less-than-ideal choices that they made, but I see them as less damning than those two. Now again, I don't yet know if the imbeciles running this thing will have completely shat their pants on this competitive window or not.
But I'll agree with you that they haven't made all of the optimal choices, either for 2021, or going forward.
So last years fail at the end of the year and playoffs was idiot manager and no third starter for playoffs...So management fires the idiot manager and replaces him with hall of fame manager and trades the failed third starter and gets back a top ten pitcher...and both were moronic moves?? I think at this point there was no move except RHs head on a pike that was going to appease you.
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On 3/1/2021 at 8:16 PM, caulfield12 said:
There has always been an adjustment period, especially with someone who missed so much time in Cuba and after signing year...and also due to injuries.
Look at Tim Anderson or Moncada or Jimenez.
Heck, think how many years it took for Rowand or Crede to break the starting line-up.
Robert has more talent than all of those guys (Moncada used to be considered right up there, and still could be)...but the first 2-3 years are always the toughest for anyone not named Mike Trout.
Another player with a similar combination of talent/tools was Sammy Sosa, he started off pretty well his rookie year and then struggled to the point a change of scenery (or PED's) became necessary to reinvigorate his career.
You got me down the rabbit hole with this one...Sosa had tools when the White Sox got him but no where NEAR Robert level expectations...he was never very good in the minors, had 100 good at bats for the White Sox followed by 900 at bats with an OPS of about .650...they played him mostly at RF where he wasn't very good. I remember being excited about him but mainly because he was so young when they got him...and hitting 15 homers and stealing 30 bases in the majors at 21 suggested he might be much better. What really got me going was seeing the trade...the White Sox traded the home town favorite, 30 year old, Harold Baines who was having a great year and got two twenty year old...Sosa and Wilson Alvarez and Scott Fletcher (a useful SS). Who had the balls to make THAT trade? Larry Himes...which reminded me how great he was. He drafted Frank Thomas, Jack McDowell, Ventura, Alex Fernandez, Jason Bere and Ray Durham in a three year period. Wow. He built the foundation for those very good 1990's teams and then was mysteriously fired. Ron Schueler got all the credit but seems like there is very little evidence that RS was any good at his job. Himes went to the Cubs and traded with Schueler to get Sosa. Talent evaluation is the most important thing for an organization and I think Himes was the White Sox best at this in the last fifty years...although I'm very optimistic on Hahn right now.
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I'm going to enjoy the White Sox this year
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Thanks Tony...that could not have been better stated.