michelangelosmonkey

i think he either is a major leaguer this year or never will be. He will be 26 by opening day. I also think he probably caught the equivalent of 1/2 a AAA season this year...they had him calling games, working with pitchers, figuring out their stuff...he was just doing it behind the scenes. They also wouldn't be requiring him to be full time starter...just catch 50 games. He's caught games in the majors before and wasn't terrible. If he is sent to AAA that means they don't believe in him and never will. I think they believe in him.

I would be shocked if they do this. I really believe they have a Collins plan...I think all of this year they had him catching the top prospects in the alternate training sight teaching him how to be a catcher. ..coaching him every day. They didn't need him in 2020 with McCann and Grandal so they taught him. I've been a big supporter of Collins and I think a guy with an elite batters eye and elite power and a lefty bat has enormous value as a back up catcher/dh/1B guy. Bringing on some old free agent catcher seems more 2018 White Sox than 2021 White Sox.

Gotta say I would be lining up for tickets for the Crochet-Kopech days. Imagine 3 innings of 100 mile heat from the left followed by 3 inning of 100 mile heat from the right.

It's nice to get a brief break from "JR is cheap" "TLR is a drunk" "RH is the worst GM ever" over and over in every thread to listen to this little oasis of sanity. Wow is this exciting. The idea of Katz working with Cease, Lopez, Kopeck and Crochett...be still my heart. There's also a nice article in Bleacher Report about the White Sox home grown relief staff. So very much positive in this organization. So much to be excited about.

I don't know...they seem like basically the same player. Here is WAR for the five years before the free agency for each (most recent year first). Upton and Heyward were both significantly younger and neither of them were told what the next pitch was going to be. I'm not saying that Springer will be bad...I'm just challenging your assumption that Springer will certainly be good. Upton and Heyward went on to provide their new teams 1 WAR per year for $20 mill a year. You could even argue that the Heyward and Quintana moves were what turned the Cubs Dynasty into the Cubs abject failure. Upton Heyward Springer Age 28 26 31 4.2 6.9 2.2 3.1 5.5 6.4 2.8 3.6 2.7 2.4 5.5 5 5.5 2 5.1 Total 46 49.5 52.4

You're kidding right? If you set the number for a mega deal at $100,000,000 and you just look the least four years...Eric Hosmer, Cespedes, Chris Davis, Jason Heyward, Justin Upton, Jordan Zimmerman... would all fall into the "ohmigod what have we done" category...that's about half of the mega contracts. If you are confident that Springer isn't Justin Upton...who put up a 5.5 WAR the year before he left and about 4 WAR combined the next four years Or Jason Heyward who put up an average of 5.5 WAR for the four years before the big contract and about 1.5 WAR after the contract. Big contract free agents are still a crap shoot.

Why? Isn't it possible that management is about to sign Colas...and think Adolfo or Lugo with a real minor league season give us a bright future in RF without spending $125 million for a 31 year old who had his best hitting season when he knew what pitches were coming? What if we trade for Yelich? What if we sign Bauer? I just don't get the Sox hatred...the off season isn't done. They have proven that they will be a top five spending team if they are real good. Might it not be a better time to go shopping at the trade deadline where we see how our minor league guys develop...and see how Eaton performs? We don't have to race in and throw our money at the first pretty face we see.

The good news is that last two times (mid 90's and mid-00's) when the White Sox had great teams JR spent for top five payrolls. Top five payroll now means $175 million...and we are only at $100 mill with the raises...so there is a TON of upside potential for our payroll. I think something big is going to happen.

Springer is 31. His OPS was down nearly 100 points last year and before that he was told in advance what pitches were coming...and he'll probably cost $100 mill more than Eaton. Everyone carries risk.

Do you mean Springer?

1) Altuve was a NEGATIVE WAR last year...I would be so mad if we traded Danny Mendick for Altuve because clearly Mendick is better based on a couple of hundred at bats in a pandemic year with no fans. It's ridiculous to look at Eaton's 3500 career at bats prior to COVID and we should judge him on his 176 COVID at bats...for the same reason I wouldn't trade a bucket of balls for Christian Yelich. 2) EAton's last five non-COVID years....he had three years of 95% of games played and two injured years. Even last year he played in 70% of the games. Is your fear that his broken pinkie from last year is going to haunt him? 3) Not sure this point as they still have Adam Engel and I suspect he will play a lot. 4) JR is demonstrably not a cheap ass (top five payroll in the mid-90's when they were good and top five in the mid-00's when they were good), TLR is a hall of fame manager. AE hasn't failed...the last time we saw him in the non-COVID world he hit nearly 1.000 OPS in helping his team win the World Series. Remind me again why you are a White Sox fan?

Wow that was fun to watch. Can you imagine how crazy our lineup is going to be next year? The first six...TA, Eloy, Robert, Abreu, Grandal and Moncada...each capable of hitting 30+ home runs...and then the period where the pitcher gets to rest...the 7-8-9 spots with Vaughan with his elite batters eye, Eaton with his career .360 OBP and Madrigal who never strikes out and hit .340 as a rookie. I think Eaton is going to be a fun addition to the team.

Nobody outside of JR's inner circle really knows...we are just speculating. But we do know that they TOLD us the money would be spent. And we do know for sure that the team had two really great runs in the last thirty years. That team in the mid 90's and the team in the mid 00's. Each time, for about a five year period when the White Sox were really good, the White Sox payroll was top five in baseball. In the 90's it was $55 mill. In the 00's it was $120's. Each time JR paid. It's inarguable that after those great teams began falling apart JR cut the payroll...we dropped to 26th in 2000 at only $31 mill when the team was transitioning. I'm sure prenatal Soxtalk was saying that "JR is cheap...he will never spend again....to get to a top five payroll he'd have to spend $120 mill and its just never going to happen" and yet six years later the team was good and we were again in top 5. So outside of the counter evidence...that JR hasn't spent during the rebuild (Something they basically told us) I feel good about them spending.

From 2006 to 2011 White Sox were in top five payrolls 4 times. What evidence is there they wont do it again? Maybe they just dont see Springer and Bauer as special enough

Why is it not possible that the White Sox have $150 million to spend on pitching and they want to spend it on extending Lynn for 22-23 and then Gio 24-27? I'm not sure that isn't better than Bauer...and I'm a bit cautious about the Cleveland pitching fairy dust...do they send that along with the signing? You also suggest that it's possible that Kopech, Crochet, Cease, Kelly, Thompson, Dahlquist, Lopez, Stiever, Lambert, Flores, Pinklington could all flame out...yet Dunning is a sure thing?? I'm not sure if you listed those pitchers in the terms of likely WAR over the next 6 years that Dunning would be in top five. We had to give SOMETHING for a top ten pitcher signed to a team friendly contract. Dunning seems about fair.

Man you must have a masters degree in negativity. I get that you don't like the 2020 Sporting News GM of the year...and you hate the White Sox as a general rule. But come on man...this roster that Hahn has built is filled with budding stars at almost every position...they have a low payroll with room to upgrade and the future has never been brighter. To this Hahn adds, by almost every measure, a top ten pitcher in all of baseball in exchange for a player dealt from an area of massive organizational strength...young pitchers...and of the dozen dynamic young arms Dunning was the oldest and with the least dazzling stuff. From THIS data you manage to write a 10,000 word dissertation that Hahn sucks and this is likely to be a "hahn special" because...1) The team is over rated. 2) Lynn isn't very good because the last 300 innings where he earned 10 WAR are an illusion and we should probably also ignore the fact that in 9 years he's pitched 1500 innings with a FIP of 3.64 and nearly 3 WAR per year and instead focus on that horrible last game he pitched. 3) Dunning is AMAZING based on his 34 innings of 4 FIP at the major league level and will leave a "gaping" hole?? 4) Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Kelly, Crochet, Stiever, Dahlquist, Thompson, lambert, Flores and Pinklington are trash are unlikely to fill the hole that Dunning's departure leaves. This is just rantings. Did Hahn run over your dog or something?

Dude...peace. Lay down the guns. We are all White Sox fans. I did say you were too stupid to argue with...I'm sorry. You are exactly the right amount of stupid to argue with.

Your Sox optimist club is growing!! I have to say I don't love not getting Springer...mostly I'm mad that they didn't get Bryce Harper a couple of years ago...still I SEE the plan. I think it all makes sense as part of a long term strategy that has brought us to a pretty good spot today. This narrative that the White Sox are cheap is just not true...from 2006 through 2011 they had a top five payroll four times. JR doesn't spend when it doesn't make sense...and I get that the rebuild was painful...but now that it makes sense to rebuild you don't have to race into the game and through money at the first pretty face. A top five payroll today would be $175 million. We are at $100 million. Lynn and Eaton are bridges to 2022 without us busting the budget. This allows us to get to the trade deadline and if the Brewers or the Phillies are floundering again...we absolutely have the budget to get Harper or Yelich and really not much more money on their remaining contracts than Springer is demanding. Financially flexibility going forward is a BIG advantage and we didn't use it up while getting two very useful pieces for 2021. This should be loved.

I have never put a laugh emoticon on your comments or any. If you want to debate a point you need to be clearer...I get frustrated because in the past I laid out with lots of details my arguments and you come back with a lot of words condemning me. Come on...peace...you have some good thoughts but I am not the only one that you have gotten nasty with.

Ohmigod you are such a dick. I responded to what you said...sorry if I didn't respond to what you clearly meant (???)...in most arguments with you it is hard to tell the difference. My humble counterpoint if you would care to try to eliminate the dickness...was that adding one of the top pitchers in baseball probably will help us in the playoffs. Having Vaughan, Eaton and Madrigal as our 7-8-9 hitters will drive pitchers crazy with their bat control and .360 OBP. That might help in the playoffs over automatic outs last year of Mazara and EE. If you want to talk baseball I'm happy to. If you want to trade insults...that's fun too.

It's just the next tab over in FutureSox talk...but here it is again. IT's worth it to dig into the guys archive to find the full podcast he did on Crochet (admittedly before the arm injury). Part 1 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/farm-system-rundown-chicago-white-sox-part-1/id1525225214?i=1000500861174 Part 2 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/farm-system-rundown-chicago-white-sox-part-2/id1525225214?i=1000501041449

It was f It was fun to hear him gush about Crochet...the idea that we could have a lefty/righty combo of Crochet/Kopech that each has stuff as good as Sale?? I also think the reason the Sox traded Dunning is because they think Stiever is Dunning but younger with better stuff. The future is bright.

I think this is one of the best points in the thread...we NEED a bridge to the future...this team is good enough to win right now and we have amazing young pitching talent. A year from now, assuming a normal minor league season...and with this hot shot new pitching coach...we will know what Cease, Kopech, Stiever, Kelly and Crochett really are. I just listened to a prospects podcast going crazy about how good Crochett is...and Kopech might be better. It's possible that by 2022 our rotation will be filled with dynamic arms...but today, right now, for 2021 we need a big time arm because the rest of the team is ready. Lynn is exactly the guy we should be looking for. AND we've kept the powder dry. We are still sitting on a big pile of money that we can shove in at the trading deadline...or next offseason when we see more clearly where the weaknesses are.

I'm sure you are a charming person in real life but here on Soxtalk you seem to be a dick to everyone. Still...that's fine. Dick away. But...we just added a guy who's been one of the ten best pitchers in baseball over the last two years and one of the leaders in innings pitched...and a left handed hitting RF who has a career .360 OBP to a team that WAS A PLAYOFF TEAM last year...and you say if we add another piece only as good as Q we won't be good enough to be a playoff team? WHAT???

To be fair this is his exact quote"If you can't spot the fastball you have no chance..." And to be fair i wasnt comparing Cease to Nolan Ryan except in rebutting the argument that young pitchers who cant spot their fastballs are doomed.