michelangelosmonkey

So are you ready to say RH = genius?

Examples of hall of fame pitchers that at a young age "cant spot their fastball so they have no chance"...seems relavent.

Exactly...Reylo's about to turn 27 and has 500 MLB innings. I'm ok saying that one didn't work out. They don't all work out. But we are so quick to give up on people...we don't ever talk about Stiever on here anymore...he of the 10 K's and 2 BB's per 9 in the minors, our number 5 prospect...after his MLB debut people were saying they wouldn't trade him straight up for Lance Lynn...and then he got shelled against Cincinnati and now we want to throw him in as the third piece in a trade for Darvish. Soxtalk needs therapy.

Of course I would take it...the range of outcomes are all over the place. Still...the Packers had Brett Favre for 16 years and won one SB and lost another...their GM said they were just a fart in the wind. Patriots had Brady for 19 years and won 6 Super bowls and lost 3. If you are about to embark on a run would you take the Favre run? Of course...but you HOPE for the Brady run. I don't think it's crazy to think that in ten years baseball fans will be HATING the fucking White Sox and all their smug glory. I don't want to be the team in ten years that looking back ESPN forgot they won another WS and had some competitive teams

I keep hearing this narrative that "if you can't spot your fastball you have no chance..." Dylan Cease at 24 is averaging 5 walks and 9 strikeouts per 9 and has pitched 131 innings. Randy Johnson at 25 averaged 5 walks and 7 strikeouts in 190 innings. At 24 Nolan Ryan averaged 6 walks and 8 strikeouts with 400 innings pitched. Curt Schilling at 24 averaged 5 walks and 8 strikeouts. At 23 Giolito had 5 walks and 7 strikeouts after a couple of hundred innnings pitched. Jack he's JUST getting started. He has GREAT stuff. Kopech and Crochett and Kelly are going to frustrate you too...kids with big arms sometimes take time to control it.

I don't think people are arguing that the Cubs run was short...the Cubs had a very nice run. Very nice. In fact if you look at the Cubs core positional players 25 and younger in 2015 they were every bit as good as the White Sox talent in 2020. The difference between this team and that team is that we have a dozen very exciting pitchers that are 25 and younger AND we haven't spent big yet on free agency. So if you are telling me that given where the White Sox sit right here...you would take four more playoff appearances and a WS win and then go back into the rebuild I think you are selling short. I think this team has the potential to make an historic run and we just need a LITTLE bit more patience. Trade deadline 2021 is when we hit the accelerator hard.

Lots of talk about Blake Snell and Trevor Bauer and the greatness that they will be if we trade or sign them. It does seem like 4 of the last 5 WS winners got a star pitcher to push them over the top. The problem is...is it not possible that we are equating the top guys currently available to the players in deals that Houston made for Greinke/Verlander or the deal that Washington made for Scherzer, or Jon Lester with the Cubs or Chris Sale/David Price with the Red Sox. Each one of those guys had a WAY better five year track record than S or B. We have to be careful with our assets and in this case our assets are a "$200 million contract" and the three prospects people want to throw into a trade...is now the time? Are either of these guys the answer? I know it's an unpopular opinion but...why not keep our powder dry until the All Star break? Sign Quintana to get you to the ASB while seeing if Cease, Lopez, Kopech and Dunning with a new pitching coach could take a big step this year. The window is open but that doesn't mean we have to go all in this second.

I didn't remember it either...but Baseball Reference lists his DWAR as -11 for his career and at 9 years of -1 DWAR. Other measures I'm sure.

Eloy has basically played one full season (177 games). He's 23 years old. The idea that he can't ever improve defensively from his rookie season seems ridiculous. He also hit 32 doubles and 45 home runs in his first 177 games...I think he'll get better offensively too. Magglio was a pretty terrible defensive outfielder and still managed to put up a bunch of 5 WAR seasons. We need to stop surrendering at the first sign of resistance.

People that love Madrigal--Rankings--40 by MLB Pipeline, 48 by Baseball America, 41 by Fangraphs ,13 on Baseball Prospectus...Longenhagen, USA Today baseball, Rotowire, FutureSox, college scouts, minor league scouts, White Sox management. People that hate Madrigal...Keith Law (hates all White Sox players) Soxtalk (hates all white sox players).

Yes...but the point is still interesting. Phillies spent a ton of money on free agents the last three years, lost a fortune this year and the free agents didn't get them close to where they wanted to be...with Braves and Mets in same division and parts of a good core...maybe they try a rebuild aimed at three years from now which would make them interested in three White Sox high potential 20 year old pitchers. If we want to "vulture" a team...and a contract...might the Phillies not be interesting? There's something like $275 million left on Harpers contract...imagine this team with him in RF and VAughan at DH. Would it matter who pitched?

Sorry...I just googled "phillies troubles" and saw the first report...it was later corrected Madden's piece initially had "Phillies managing partner John Middleton told his baseball people the club lost nearly $2 billion this year." That's their entire estimated franchise value. The piece was later changed to "massive losses (reportedly $145 million)," but with no acknowledgement of the error.

That's what Bill Madden of NYT reported a week ago...quoted from one of the Phillies owners.

Lefty hitting right fielder with high OBP...Phillies reportedly lost $2 billion last year and their team has been under .500 last two years. Stievers, Kelly and Sheets for Bryce Harper. Who says no?

I gotta say...five years ago if the White Sox had hired a new analytics coordinator I would neither have known nor cared. Now I get to read ten pages about who they are, how Jerry sucks and TLR is a drunk, management favors nepotism and rapists and the rebuild is going in the trash heap. We are living in a world of wonders.

If you never found someone too stupid to argue with...that should tell you something. Enjoy your day.

Honestly you are too stupid to argue with.

Phillies were like us just a year earlier and since 2017 signed Arietta, Wheeler, Harper, McCuthchen and Santana for $630 million...and that got them two year where they were a combined four games under .500 record and now they are in a financial mess...so you'll have to explain to me the side benefits they are getting. 2016 Orioles were a young talented team that had won 89 games and gone to the playoffs and paid 160 million (not 60) for Chris Davis and he bombed and now their franchise is in ruins. Last year the Nationals "won" Strasburg for $275 million and they ended up 8 games under .500. You think the Padres spending $450 million on two players the last two years pushed them over the top? You think that won't bite them? Last year they got 4 WAR out of the two of them for $50 million. Next year they will be 28 and 31 and cost them $53 million. OK it would be fun to be the Yankees or Dodgers with their annual $250 million budget...but we aren't so we have to spend money wisely. Last year we got Grandal who is top 3 catcher in baseball...not sure why that's not a blockbuster deal. We also got Keuchel who put up 2.1 WAR for $18 million while the Yankees got the shiny penny in Gerrit Cole who put up 2.2 WAR for $36 million. I honestly think you have PTSD from the rebuild. Come on man we are White Sox fans. They had a great off season last year, the team has a ton of talent, our payroll is only $100 million for next year ($20 million less than the Padres), no really bad contracts on the books (like Meyer and Hoesner are for the Pads) and the free agent market has just begun. Don't wallow in self hatred until we see how this plays out. Enjoy the process.

I'm sorry if you have a hard time following your own argument you said "...this is exactly the time where we should be buying." I'm merely pointed out that we spent a LOT of money on free agents last year. I didn't act like it was for one big contract....but why would that matter? If you even understood poker you would understand that defraying the risks over many bets is a better strategy than going all in on one big bet. How did Anthony Rendon's $220 million contract help the Angels? Or Harpers $330 million help the Phillies...or Patrick Corbins $120 million help the Diamondbacks...or Cespedes $110 million help the Mets...or Jason Heyward's $180 mill help the Cubs or Greinke's $200 mill help the Diamondbacks or Chris Davis's $!61 million help the Orioles on and on and on. If your argument is the "Big" free agent gets you over the top...that is almost never true. If your argument is the White Sox never sign the top free agent...well they paid the highest contract ever for any team with Albert Belle 25 years ago and that was a mess. The White Sox are spending money sensibly and you calling them cheap belies the reality.

Interesting. So the White Sox spent $200 mill on free agent contracts last year and you stand by your argument that the White Sox wont spend on free agents because...You deny the evidence? Oh shut up? That's not how poker is played?

It seems like we did buy last year. Abreu, Grandal, Keuchal, Encarnation were all big contracts. This narrative that we are cheap and never going to sign free agents and complaining we havent signed anyone here on Nov 28th is just Sox psychosis

I don't think you can make categorical statements like that. This is chess....if they sign Bauer but keep Mazara that is not the team giving up...it's them allocating resources where they think they are more important. Maybe they think Mazara's lefty bat, improved defense and hitting potential is too good of a fit and that his 150 at bats in a Covid year is not enough to decide he's a waste...maybe they think Adolfo is closer to being ready than any of us do...maybe they think they can wait and see on Mazara until the all star break, where your minor league talent has begun to bloom enough to be more attractive in a trade. Maybe they are seeing reports that Covid will shut down fans for all of 2021 as well and money will be really tight for everyone. We don't know but if they do bring him back it will be interesting.

I think that IS the strategy. The problem is there is one Bauer and probably a dozen suitors. Like Wheeler last year you can even offer the most money and at that level there are non-money considerations. What if the Sox offer 2-$80 and someone comes in and offers 6-$200. Bauer has claimed the "one year deal" did we not try hard enough? Until the process plays out it is too early to say this isn't our plan. Still a Springer/Quintana with a trade of three 22 year old pitchers for Lance Lynn would be a nice option too.

I think when you get into the $300 million contracts there are other things that are factoring in the signing. No one really knows what was happening in those meetings but if you are trying to read the tea leaves...they absolutely signed Alsono and Jay to lure Machado...it is illogical to think they did it for any other reason. We were the Windy city competing with San Diego??? He's from Floida...his wife and him are kids...the beach looks good. It didn't work out...it was worth a shot and I think the White Sox tried their best. I'm not sure you can condemn then for trying and failing...you condemn them for not trying at all. As for sucking at sucking...how can you look at the roster right now and believe that? I'm also fine with trading youth...especially if the trade is something like Cease for Darvish as Cease will be as good as Darvish in two years but we are ready to compete so don't wait...and in two years Kelly will be as good as Cease is today...keep the conveyor belt going but move it two years up. That said...not Eloy...not Madrigal...no key positional parts. And spending money is way better than trading assets...for now.

Remember the Bill Veeck days? When we would have an exciting player like Richie Zisk or Oscar Gamble...and after a good year Veeck would sell them off for cash to keep the lights on. There have been MANY dark days in this franchise. The team in 1976 #1 hitter with more than 250 at bats had a .735 OPS. The home run leader had 14. The sun seems to be shining brightly and I for one am going to enjoy it.