michelangelosmonkey

Yeah I know...you should always be looking at upgrading your 40 man roster...always. But the time for other teams failed prospects has been the last five years. It is now time to add a REAL piece. Did you know Lance Lynn's first manager was TLR? He won a game in the WS at 24 under TLR. Dunning, Thompson and Adolfo for LL sign Springer. Set for Spring

I think the Dodgers are the best cautionary tale...we've been hearing for 10 years they have the best farm system, unlimited budget and a lot of good major league players and they have one WS win. I'm not going to die if they have a Cubs run...my only point is...don't trade Madrigal and Eloy for and $200 million in budget for a pitcher like Darvish who is one bad pitch away from the abyss. I 100% am OK with them trading Stiever and Kelly and maybe that Tatis kid for Darvish...just don't sell the family silver just yet.

Yes I'm being unrealistic as are you. You don't know the future...I don't know the future. For you to categorically say that the best we could possibly hope for is one WS and four more playoffs in the next five years before having to rebuild is nonsense. At no point in my life have the White Sox assembled this much talent. Luis Robert's upside is Ken Griffey Jr...of COURSE his downside is out of the league in two years. Vaughan's upside is Frank Thomas of COURSE his downside is never making it. There has never been a White Sox 2b where I thought...hmmm...his upside is Rod Carew...of course he could be nothing. Moncada put up a 5 WAR at 24. Eloy at 23 has hit .280 with 45 homer runs in 175 games. Tim Anderson...at 27 has hit .330 with 28 homers and 40 doubles in the last 170 games. Sure you can say this core is no better than the Cubs core of 2015 that included Rizzo, Russel, Castro, Baez, Schwarber, Soler, Bryant all 26 or younger....and they WERE an amazing core...and they had a GREAT run. But what the Cubs didn't have is a dozen exciting young pitchers all younger than 26. Please tell me again that Cease, Kopek, Gio, Crochett, Kelly, Dunning, Stiever, Lambert, Lopez, Thompson, Pinklington and Dahlquist...is just a normal collection of young starting pitchers. If you can't see the POTENTIAL for elite pitching, elite hitting and elite defense in this group. Fine. My view of the future is WAY more fun than yours.

Cali...say it ain't so. You too? Not THIS team. Not THIS talent pool. This is the wrong time to race for a ring by trading key pieces. In 1971 the Oakland A's had 25 Year olds CF Rick Monday, RF Reggie Jackson, C Dave Duncan, Catfish Hunter, 24 year olds RP- Rollie Fingers, C Gene Tenace and RF Joe Rudi 21 year old VP ida Blue. They got swept out of the playoffs that year. You think there weren't A's fans saying...let's trade our back up catcher Gene Tenace (35 WAR in the next 7 years) and failed relief pitcher Rollie Fingers who's K/9 was less than 7 that year and had less than one WAR a year for his first three years (future WS MVP, CY young winner, MVP winner, Hall of famer) to Baltimore for 29 year old 22 game winner and total workhorse Pat Dobson? Or trade hot dog Reggie Jackson who is a below average defensive outfielder and struck out 161 times (39 WAR next 7 years) and minor league catcher Jim Sundberg (18 WAR next 7 years) for 25 game winner Mickey Lolich, #2 in CYA...who was really good for two more years. In the next four years the A's went to the playoffs 4 times and won three world series...and then their idiot owner sold all their players. That could have been one of the greatest runs in sports history. I think that is us right now...and yes...the White Sox chartered plane could crash...bad things happen. But generally your pool of talent is like the White Sox in 1993...25 year old Frank Thomas and Robin Ventura, 23 year old Alex Fernandez and Wilson Alvarez and 22 year old Jason Bere and then older pieces. That's six guys under 26 and I was SO excited about that team. We have fifteen. There is still time to settle for the good team run...but when you have a shot at a super team run don't you have to go for it??

He looks like Palka....four out of five years he's had a negative dWar. .220 hitter that doesn't walk but hits a ton of home runs. Why does ANYONE want that?

It's been five years of shopping in other people's dumpsters. My god if the DIamondbacks don't want him why do we?

Sitting where we are sitting right now...the Cubs run is your upper limit? 4 more years of play offs in the next five years, one WS appearance and then rebuild again? We have twenty very exciting players that are 26 or less. Sure I would take it...but as the floor not the ceiling. The question is how do you reach the ceiling and I think its way too early in the process to start trading Madrigal or Eloy for some flashy pitcher. For this year you spend money only, you sign Springer and Quintana...or Bauer and nothing...and then be patient.

I guess my point is that I don't want to be that "really solid team" that gets there every year but isn't really good enough to beat a super team. I want to be that super team. Do you really think Darvish gives us a better chance to win WS in 2022-23-24-25 than Cease-Kopech-Crochett fulfilling their promise? He sure gives us a better chance of winning in 2021but I don't think we are ready to beat the Dodgers in 2021. The core of the White Sox...Madrigal, Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Vaughan, Gio, Kopech, Crochett, Cease, Dunning, Foster, Heuer are 26 or younger...not even in their prime years yet...why are we pushing all chips in at this point? Seems like we have a much better idea a year from now how to hit the gas...and our young assets will be better defined.

What I don't want is to be the Cubs...one WS and a real good half decade and then standing again on the precipice . I want this team to be a juggernaut and part of that is not trading away key positional pieces before the soufflé has risen. The fun part of the White Sox right now is people saying "Eloy might be the best hitter on the team" and I think...well...yes but Robert might be...or Moncada or Vaughan...I mean those are four hitters that could be the greatest hitters the White Sox have had in our lifetimes (Excluding Frank Thomas who was an alien). And that doesn't even count Tim Anderson...who in his last 172 games has hit .333 with 28 homers, 43 doubles and stole 22 bases...at SS...or the rookie 2b that hit .341, or the reigning MVP...or the second best catcher in baseball. Plus...we have a DOZEN very exciting starting pitchers that are 26 or younger. Stiever was our top 5 prospect...came in his first ML game and looked amazing and we were all excited...then he got shelled the next game and we never talk about him again???? I say sign Springer who will make our offense and defense elite. Sign Quintana for cheap and then let Cease and Kopeck and Dunning and Stiever and Crochett and Lambert and Lopez and Kelly and Dahlquist and Thompson with the new hot shot pitching coach fill in four and five. There's a very real possibility that three of those 10 will be better than Darvish or Woodruff by 2022...and we are set to be the 1970 Cincinnati Reds.

I hate that so many posters want to trade Madrigal. Fangraphs talks about 2b being one of the worst positions for talent in MLB right now. We have a guy that looks like he could be a 4 WAR per year guy and we want to get rid of him to take on an enormous salary? It seems to me the thing the White Sox have lots of depth in is young exciting pitchers. If you set the cut off at 26 years...we have Giolito, Cease, Kopeck, Dunning, Lopez, Crochett, Stiever, Kelly, Thompson, Dahlquist, Lambert and Pinklington. I count a dozen really exciting young pitchers. All are either on our current roster or top 30 prospects and all starter potentials (lots of good young relief arms too). Why would the Cubs not want to trade Darvish and his salary for three guys like Stiever, Kelly and Lambert? Sort of like the package we sent got for Eaton...though Eaton was cost controlled position player. I should think you can package three of these arms to a lot of teams that want to dump salary and rebuild for the future. For the Sox...you get one sure thing for three future things.

There are two sides to most arguments...protest or protest but not during something we hold sacred like the anthem, rally for a pro police demonstration or call the police bullies, support a tough love prison policy or advocate for leniency....I remember back in the day we could actually discuss these things and intellectually understand the other side. Now we call one side of the argument "racists" and then smugly walk away. "Racist" used to be the worst thing you could call someone...now it just means "the half of the population that disagrees with me". We are stumbling towards the abyss.

I agree. I understand the desire to push the chips into the middle of the table...it's been a rough few years and 2020 was exciting. I just think we could be on the cusp of a super team...and if you look at the recent WS champs it looks like you NEED a super team to win the WS. I don't think it is a stretch to see Madrigal as a 4 WAR player for the next 7 years...at 2b where fangraphs talks about it being one of the thinnest positions in baseball. I love the idea of him batting second...and Tim Anderson stealing 70 bases. They would drive other teams crazy...Madrigal never striking out and having the bat control to foul off a thousand pitches and the pitcher having to throw over to first to keep TA close...and then you have legendary lumber after that. Madrigal just seems to fit too perfectly into this team to trade him now. We all need patience.

Gregarious has put up 1 WAR combined the last two years and is 30. Schoop has put up 1.5 WAR per year for three years...and he's 29. La Stella has put up 4 WAR in his CAREER and he's 31. DJ is going to make BANK this off season. Wong got cut because he was set to make $12.5 million and COVID year. Cesar Hernandez has put up 1.5 WAR per year for the last three years and he's 30. So if your argument is there are a bunch of replacement level 30 year old 2b out there...agreed...they can easily get us half the WAR of Madrigal for $6 million more per year. All the guys you named outside of Wong and DJ were worth less in WAR than Yolmer the last three years. I don't want Sanchez back at second...I want a super team...and I think Madrigal helps us build to that more than anyone out there (cost + potential WAR).

I'm not arguing that Madrigal will hit a lot of home runs...you argued that he would be a 2 WAR player for 7 years and that wasn't that big of a deal. I'm arguing a bunch of data points of 2b who hit few home runs and put up 5 WAR. But let presume that you are right and Madrigal never hits more than a homer every 100 at bats...so 6 per year. Wong averaged .261 with 10 home runs. The difference between 10 and 6 home runs is 16 bases. Add 16 singles to Wong's batting average and that means Madrigal would have to hit .292 for his career and he would be Wong, right? Again...Card sources say he is their best infielder in 30 years. Add another 20 singles per year (.330) and if Madrigal gains some strength, and improves his defense (Longenhagen praised his defense, ZIPS said he would be a great defender...30 nervous games and Soxtalk says he won't) he's a 4 WAR guy for 7 cost controlled years. It doesn't matter where you add 4 extra WAR but it seems cheap and easy to just keep Madrigal.

OK...I'm the Rod Carew guy...sorry he comes quickly to mind because he had a unique skill set of hitting singles and playing 2b. How about DJ LeMahieu 2016 Rockies 11 HR's (In thin air of Colorado) 11 for 18 stealing bases and put up a 5.8 WAR? Kolton Wong last year in STL had 11 homers and 5.2 WAR playing 2B. Both of those were guys in their late 20's...full grown men...not 23 year old Madrigal. You think Madrigral can't put together a string of those kind of years (like Carew did)?? Last year Rougned Odor was 15th ranked 2b (by OPS) and put up a 0.0 WAR...so there is a BIG difference between a run of the mill second baseman and a 4 WAR guy. I don't think it's crazy talk to think he has a career as good as LeMahieu and he's averaged about 4 WAR per year for the last 7 years and only one year hit more than 15 home runs. So you have a cost controlled 2b that does exactly what you want him to do...hit a lot of singles, field, run, be a smart player. The idea that if we trade him we just pick up a Kolton Wong...according to Cardinals site Wong is the best middle infielder they've had in 30 years and that it was insanity for them to let him go...they cut him because he was going to cost $12.5 mill, is 30 and Covid. If we trade Madrigal we are far more likely to have someone like Sanchez as our 2B and why, oh why, do we want that??

Honest to god soxtalk is the dumbest fan site ever. We draft a kid fourth overall who hit .360 in college. stole 39 out of 45 bases...stuck out 20 times in his last 400 college at bats who then went, at 22 and hits .340 in Birmingham where all bats go to die...then hits .340 at 23 in his first 29 major league games...and I have to defend my excitement?? Harold's LL saw some games on television and condemns this 23 year old as a finished...worthless product? Fathom comps him to Darwin Barney? Why do so many of the Soxtalk regulars hate the White Sox?

In 1972...at 26...Rod Carew at 2B had a .379 slugging percent...had a .318 batting average...stole 12 bases...and put up a 5 WAR. I can see that for Madrigal...those of you wanting to trade him because he has no power...go look at Carew...elite bat control, good fielder, fast....never hit 15 home runs in a season but averaged a 7 WAR for 7 years.

I always thought it was funny, as a kid, that all my history textbooks said Andrew Johnson was the WORST US president. And yet during his presidency he added Alaska which I think was probably one of the ten greatest things to happen to America. Maybe it was all Seward but still...happened on his watch so he should have gotten some credit for it.

Yes states can do whatever they want...but it doesn't eliminate the EC. They just partition their electoral votes to the EC in their own way.

Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, N and S Dakota, Alabama, Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, West Virginia, Nebraska and Arkansas. Amendment blocked. But it was fun to think about Cole pitching next to Giolito.

Poppysox I appreciate your willingness to enter the Octagon in a Soxtalk political forum that seems like the loudest voices are the other side. To me the most surprising thing is the 4 year temper tantrum that started the minute Trump was elected. Obama was elected and was handed the Nobel Peace prize and Trump was elected and the impeachment hearings started ten minutes later. 90% of all media articles about him have been negative. I mean the guy brings a lot of it on himself...but to expect a NY ego maniac to turn the other cheek like Bush did? They punch he punches back they punch back he punches back...for four years. It's exhausting but really he did some remarkable things in his presidency...Prison reform bill, Peace in the Middle East, the Great American outdoors act, elimination of the Obamacare individual mandate, right to try act, the Tax bill...which was really a fascinating restructuring of tax code (making most deductions irrelevant), getting Nato to pay more, starting the troop withdrawal from Germany, first president in 50 years that didn't get us in a war, standing up to China...which...I've been in International business for 30 years and China are ashholes. Anwar, Keystone, Moving embassy to Jerusalem, a booming economy...right up to Covid, 3 supreme court justices, record number of Federal judges appointed, massive cuts in regulation. You can disagree with what he did. But in the background when the chaos was going on...a lot was done.

The problem with arguing about the electoral college is it was like arguing about the White Sox signing Gerrit Cole last year. It may be fun or get passions burning...but it's not going to happen. To amend the constitution requires 3/4 of the states to agree. You want to change the system where the bottom 1/3 of the states lose power...but they have to vote to agree to give up power?? Why would they do that? Sure some might but you'd need 38 out of 50 states. I'm pretty sure I can find 13 states that won't vote yes to this in 100 years.

We will not. good sir, suffer through your intolerable rationality and optimism. Remember the Soxtalk mission...seek out a feel good story and beat it to death with a stick.

For the record I wasn't one of those guys screaming about cheating Hinch. I wanted Hinch. I was just pointing out that the narrative in what was supposed to be a feel good season...both nationally and on Sox talk was going to be something like "White Sox hire cheater". Of course I should have calculated that the national and Sox talk narrative after hiring TLR was going to be "White Sox hire old, racist, cheater". I need a better hobby than Soxtalk.

Phil Jackson with the Lakers?