michelangelosmonkey

Maybe the plan is to bring in LaRussa with Jirschele as the bench coach to learn from the Zen master? I mean it's not the stupidest idea. I think LaRussa speaks Spanish and is good with the players, has lots of playoff experience and was always a pretty smart baseball manager. I think they love Jirschel, he's young and smart, knows most of the players from the minors and is good with analytics. They aren't ready to hand the keys to the Ferrari over to the kid with his learners permit but he shadows LaRussa for a year or two and then the Sox have their manager for the next decade. It also feels like a nicer story than bringing in Hinch...Reinsdorf gets his closure, LaRussa get a shot at a last hurrah where he had his first hurrah.

Why can't Engel be everyday RF next year? He had an .811 OPS this year , has great speed, plays great defense and he's cheap.

Fernando Tatis Jr is hitting under .200 with a .650 ops in 75 September at bats. Players slump apparently.

I know, right? I just saw in the 16 games in September Tatis, Jr is hitting .193 with an OPS under .650. And we were all saying he's good but turns out he's garbage. Or maybe, just maybe, baseball players go in slumps.

Its a nice feeling to have both our SS and 2B hitting .358.

Posted July 20 (edited) Your OPS argument is a joke. EE has a lower OPS due to his early years. Take a look at recent years and it is no contest. EE >>> Abreu. If you are so confident, put your money where your mouth is and lets wager a ban bet on it. Edited July 20 by Yearnin' for Yermin Y for Y...ready to concede???

i spent the morning arguing we should trade Dunning + for Lance Lynn. WTF was I thinking? Dunning has had two of the best "first two starts" in the majors that I can remember for any Sox starter. This team!! Next year we replace Lopez with Kopech and EE with Vaughan. How do you spell juggernaut?

Ohmigosh...it was a joke because everyone is so angry about what happened the last time we thew in a no-name wildcard in a trade for an older pitcher. I mean honestly the likelihood of Elijiah being the best player in baseball in three years is about as likely as it was for his brother. It's baseball...weird things happen.

UGH...the anti-Collins stuff is so old. How has Collins "not lived up to his potential". Are we basing that on the 30 major league at bats back in June/July of last year?? The 16 at bats this year? I think he remains a key part of their future...they won't resign McCann and he will catch 50 games a year and DH and pinch hit. He's only 25...we have to stop giving up on people.

I think it's goofy you think Collins has no value. Austin Hedges with his career .600 OPS catches 100 games a year. You think if the White Sox waived Collins other teams would shrug and move on? He had a .950 OPS in AAA last year...he's a lefty catcher...he's only 25. I still think the White Sox think highly of Collins...they just thought their window was opening and one of the best catchers in the MLB was available as a free agent and they needed to show the fan base that they are in it. As for the immortal Keith Law...it is idiotic to think Lopez has zero value. And I did not say either one of them was the key to the trade...they are the extra pieces with the hot pitching prospect as the key piece. Today Pilkington doesn't equal Dunning. My point was in two years they could be. Pilkington is 3 years younger than Dunning...and their FV today is not their actual value in two years. Some of those guys will develop...the Sox have a reasonably exciting stable of young pitching prospects. We don't know if any of them will amount to anything. We have a really good idea what Lynn will be the next year and a half.

I wonder if we are suffering from Quintana angst? Cubs in their window trade top hitting and pitching prospects for a few years of control of a hugely under rated..near great...MLB starting pitcher and then Quintana has not been good for them and Cease and Eloy look like huge building blocks for us. Will Karma eat our souls?

How is it possible that Collins has no value at all?? 25 year old left handed hitting catcher with plus power and an elite batting eye?? Reynaldo Lopez has NO value? In 2018 and 19 had 35 Quality starts, is only 26 and can throw 98. I think you spend too much time on Soxtalk where everyone that is not an immediate all star is garbage (and any all-star that has had a bad week is garbage).

I really think you can. Stiever is younger and actually higher rated than Dunning....seems like the Rangers baseball people would like that even if Dunning is a bit sexier. So go Stiever-Collins-Lopez and Tatis. My only reason for including Dunning is I think he is easier to sell to the Rangers fan base because of his recent Dunning-Mize pitch off. I actually kind of love a Gio-Dallas-Lynn-Cease-Dunning rotation for the next year and a half. Hold on I'll go call the Rangers GM.

Yes and I forgot Bernardo Flores...plus the pitchers we draft in 2021...and international signings...and guys that emerge from nowhere. My point is that it's not Dunning or bust. I think we have a lot of guys at the Dunning level. I'd be upset if we traded Kopech because I think he has special stuff. But the idea we can get someone of Lynn's quality for nothing? I think Dunning, Collins, Lopez and Elijiah Tatis would be a great package for Lynn. Rangers get two young pitchers with great stuff and upside, Collins a catcher with huge offensive upside and Tatis who in two years will likely be the best player in baseball. What do we really lose? Dunning =Stiever=Pinklington=etc. 4th starters in 2022. We can't use a ten man rotation in two years.

I was super patient but at some point the rebuild goes to the second stage...where you trade future assets for present assets. You suggest we could still win WS in 2020 with a playoff rotation of...Gio, Dallas and...Cease? Dunning? Lopez? Rodon? Do you trust anyone but the top two against the Twins or Dodgers? Lynn has been one of the best pitchers in baseball the last season and a half. Going into the playoffs with three very good pitchers, a great offense and a very good defense makes you a legit contender. The idea that somehow you are "slamming the door shut" on the rebuild because you trade one of 8 young pitchers...and the oldest one coming off of major arm trouble...for a TOR pitcher seems a bit hyperbolic. Lynn buys you a year and a half for Cease, Kopech, Lopez and 6 other pitchers to gain consistence and confidence to be big league pitchers.

So if I give you this list of White Sox pitching prospects And I tell you...choose one...and over the rest of the 2020 season and the 2021 season they will come up and give you 3 WAR for 2020 and 6 WAR for 2021 but then blow out their arm and never pitch for us again. Would you take that? Giving you a real shot for post season glory in the early window period. That's basically trading for Lance Lynn. Or would you say "nope keep building up their arm until 2022 so we have a good shot at a five years window starting in 2022". I might agree with you that you take the longer period of potential greatness with Kopech and probably Crochet and Kelly (that is, not trading them for Lynn) but the rest? Why is Dunning untouchable? Isn't it possible that Stiever or Pilkington or Dahlquist are just as good? Isn't it better to have one Lance Lynn today for a year and a half than six really quality 4th starters in two years? Lynn really moves our legitimate contention window up at least a year. I'm ready.

Another soft hit. ugh. This is going to be a frustrating 3000 hit career.

I like Dunning but for the next 18 months Lynn is going to be consistantly better. After that we have 8 prospects as exciting as Dunning.

This is great work and how can you not be excited about pitching moving forward? If Dunning goes instead of Stiever...Stievers younger and many think could be as good. The Dunning-Mize pitch off seemed like a showcase. If you were Rangers and could show your fans the Dunning game plus Collins plus Lopez I think they would be happy. I do like throwing in Elijiah Tatis to make Soxtalk lose their minds.

Sorry I meant Lynn

I'm warming to the idea of making a trade for Lynn. The problem is young pitchers have a learning curve. It took Gio four years in the majors to really figure it out. Cease is still not a sure thing after a year and a half. If we are counting on Dunning based on four really good innings the other day and his pre-injury record...will he really be better than 2020 Cease next year? Won't we need a consistent top 4 to compete in playoffs and next year pennant race? Will Kopech come up and be ace ready right off? Even Chris Sale took a year and a half in the bullpen before he was great. So let's say Kopech=Sale he likely won't be major force until 2022. If you bring in Lynn you have a great top three and a very good top four for this year and next year. You use the 4 and 5 slot plus relief to audition for Lynn's replacement for 2022. The other thing to remember is we don't need 8 great starting pitchers. We need 5. In theory for 2022 you have Gio, Cease, Kopech and Kuechel. So you really only need one more and it seems like we have a lot to chose from. Here's the pool for a trade for Lynn and adding our 2022 fifth starter (or Kuechel replacement). I tend to be the most optimistic on the board so I'm not ready to give up on Reylo completely yet...but I'm getting pretty close. I had huge hope for Rodon but the injury thing just seems to make him unlikely to ever fulfill his promise. I think Cease has reached the point for me where he is going to be a very good major league pitcher. He's not there yet but I think 2021 he will make another leap forward. That leaves us with 8 pitchers in our top 25 prospects that all look exciting. I think you use one of them as the headline of a trade to Texas. I wouldn't trade Kopech for anything but DeGrom...his upside remains Nolan Ryan and while I like Fry the trade could end up looking real bad. Dunning is the oldest of the group and showed scintillating stuff the other night. He might be attractive enough to build a package around. I would NOT trade Madrigal or Vaughan as I see them as foundational pieces. I love Collins but it seems the White Sox don't. So we send Dunning, Reylo, Collins, Rutherford and maybe throw in Elijiah Tatis as a wild card. We have so many of the offensive/Defensive parts in place I think we shouldn't wait for ALL the flowers to grow. I mean really, don't you think that when Fry is done in two years that we will think of Kelly and Crochet about what we think of Cease and Kopech right now? Trade in some chips Rick Hahn and let's go for it this year.

OK that's probably fair...just looked at his average from college and minor league. Again...judging him based on half a dozen games in the pros and conclusively stating that he would be lucky to steal 15 seems overly pessimistic.

I can't imagine that back firing. Lottery tickets NEVER hit.

Sorry I didn't understand your definition of "run producer" as a slugger. Of course that's true...but when Vaughan comes up we have about six guys that can hit 30 homers. Madrigal as a guy that gets on base at a .370 clip, steals 40 bases and plays gold glove second base...every day...seems more valuable than a short term shot at WS that is a bit of a gamble anyway.

HAHA....in your own argument you admit that players can go from worst to first. I did not say Lopez is a phenom. I'm just reacting to the suggesting that he's worthless. Somehow he's Dylan Covey. He's given a number of data points that he might be good. I wrote someplace earlier how very good he's been in about 80% of his starts...it's just when he was bad he was horrible.