michelangelosmonkey

I'm intrigued by the idea of keeping three catchers with the roster expanding to 26 and letting Collins ease into being a major leaguer. I'm ok with the idea of them giving Collins another year in AAA to exclusively work on his catching. I'm horrified at the idea of giving up on someone that has flashed elite offensive skills at a position that its so hard to find. Ted Simmons was not a great defensive catcher but starting at age 25 put up about 30 WAR in a 6 year stretch.

Just so I'm clear...you are giving up on a 24 year old left handed hitting catcher, who hit .282/.403/.538 last year in AAA who Led all of the minor leagues in walks the year before...hit .320 with over 1.000 OPS in 3 years in college and led all college players in walks who has an elite batting eye and plus power...because of 30 bad at bats in June/July? Because that seems like a stupid opinion. You also seem to hold it against him that he has a catchers body type? And think that he's....clueless? Interesting.

Thanks ...Collins could be a bust...as could Robert or any of them. Just so much negativity on him on the board. We are much closer to a WS if Collins is great than if EE is. Only way we know is to give him 400 at bats this year. This is not dissing the very good EE...its dissing the strategy of paying and playing a 37 year old in lieu of a 24 year old.

Obviously the last 30 at bats are as meaningless as the first 30. What matters is the elite eye and the plus power. But so many want to draw conclusions on nothing

We should explore trading Collins for Nelson Cruz AND sign EE. Cruz had a way better year than EE.

Why are you, the Collins backer, going to assume he sucks next year? What if Robert sucks? What if Giolito sucks? Should we bring in more old guys because we fear the young guys will suck based on his first 30 at bats in the majors...and ignore his .930 OPS in his last 30 at bats in the majors? Collins madness.

I think Abreu begins being phased out and Vaughn will be a rookie. If Collins can hit 30 homers and walk 100 times as a lefty batter for the next ten years...I'd find a spot for him. Still I respect your dogged love of really really old DH sorts.

I love the civility on Soxtalk. "No fucking clue"? And yet...all 37 year old DH's perform exactly as they did in younger years in perpetuity. Just plug in the numbers in your Xbox. Meanwhile we deny that Zack Collins has an extraordinary batting eye and plus power but will likely not hit so many singles so there is no spot for him on the team...so let's go back to the old Sox plan. I wonder if Melky is still available.

50 games at catcher, 50 games at 1st 50 games at DH. McCann is gone by 2021. Abreu will need more rest.

And you really don't seem to understand that Collins has a major pedigree...he was BA's freshman of the year at Miami, as a junior he led all college players in walks, he won the Buster Posey award as best college catcher. He was a top ten draft pick. In 2017 he was selected to the Futures game and He led all minor league players in walks in 2018...was a Southern league all star...mid year and year end. And yes he had a .950 OPS in 2019....then had 30 terrible at bats in June, wherein you and everyone else on Soxtalk determined he's not good...and then in his final 30 at bats in September he had a .930 OPS. Every other fan base in baseball would be excited about Collins and we wan a 37 year old fading star. I surrender.

At what point do you think he hits the wall? He'll be 37.5 at the all star game. Guys drop off quickly. He was very good last year but his 2019 numbers don't help us and delaying Collins development for a year for maybe an extra win? And then EE retires? Pointless.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I think Collins will be a way better hitter in 2021 if he gets 400 major league at bats this year. If the Sox sign EE he won't. I think that is a huge mistake. I think Collins, Madrigal, Robert, Cease and Kopech have proven everything they need in the minors and this is the year to learn if they are major leaguers. None are likely to be instant stars...but all will be better than the garbage they had last year. This is the year we stumble into the playoffs and next year is the year where it all comes together. EE does nothing for that.

So he'll be Kyle Schwarber...500 game MLB career of .235/.339/.490. Strike out 30% of the time. Yup. I'm fine with that.

You mean like...Moncada? But with a better eye? He had a .950 OPS at AAA. He had an .800 OPS in the impossible Birmingham park between 2017-18; an .850 OPS in 16-17 at A+, and a 1.000 OPS in three years in college...all while playing the hardest defensive position to learn. And you say his hit tool is "highly questionable"???. Again...Soxtalk has lost their minds on Collins...we should be SOOOO excited to see him DH next year full time and instead we want the fossilized remains of EE??

Yes but this is not win in 2020 or disband. This is how do we build a juggernaut. There is zero question that EE is less risky for 2020 than Collins...unless you measure the risk of wasting a year of development of Collins...or you measure the risk of people at 37 aging really quickly. I think it's nice that you didn't just take into account his 30 terrible June at bats but also took into account his 60 September at bats before writing him off. But...his last 30 at bats he put up a .930 OPS. You suggest he has things to work on...but if Grandal and Abreau and EE and Mccann are splitting 1800 at bats between 1b, DH and C...where are the at bats for Collins? Are you sending him back down??

Based on 30 at bats in June??? Come on...he has an elite batters eye and plus power. Did I mention he's lefty, 24 and had a .950 OPS in AAA in 300 at bats??? Are we benching Robert when he has a bad couple of weeks in May? We chose a lane...trust in young talent...I really don't want to return to the lane of ...sign other teams old stars when they no longer want them.

He's NOT too much of scrub. I think he will have a fine year this year...for a slow, 37 year old, right handed hitting DH making $8 million in the twilight of his career. I just think 24 year old lefty, back up catcher, earning $500,000 will hit better...and could become either a major part of the team for 5 years...or an attractive trade piece. Why would you not want that?

If we define "proven" as two years in a row of elite play...they are ALL unproven...Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Kopech, Moncado, Tim Anderson, Madrigal, Robert, Vaughan, Collins, Jimenez. We don't want to plug in old dinosaurs to get in the way of these guys beginning to prove themselves. Collins college history and AAA history suggests he could be as good a hitter as any of them...and a lefty...and 24. Give him a shot!!!!!!

I think there is a very real chance 25 year old Collins will be better than 37 year old EE next year. For the same reason I don't want 35 year old Adam Jones to play centerfield just in case Robert isn't good, or 38 year old Robinson Cano just in case Madrigal isn't great. The goal is to roll out all the young guys and have them meld into a machine. Just because your window is open doesn't mean you should be afraid to let talent rise.

Honestly...why would we give at bats to 100 year old EE or spend $100 million on Castellanos rather than hand the bat to Collins? Collins had a .951 OPS at Charlotte, he's a lefty and his two prime skills...elite walk rate and plus power are things that should play in the majors. Everyone on the board is so confident about all the prospects but we've given up on a 24 year old lefty who could hit 30 homers and walk 100 times...because he had a bad 30 at bats in June/July??? He had a .760 OPS in September. Why is he not Kyle Schwarber? Why would that not be a great addition to the team?

Yes but i think we've had quite a bit of BAD luck in development. i count 9 of the Sox top 25 prospects that missed major parts of last season due to injury. (Kopech, Dunning, Basabe, Adolfo, Burger, Lambert, Hamilton, Burdi, Flores). Ten when you add Rodon who most thought would be the ace of the staff this year. If six of the ten come back and show signs of reaching their former potential...suddenly our minors are stacked again and we have the tools to make a major trade. We aren't the Astros yet but it is not a stretch to see the pieces falling into place.

I know we thrive on negativity on Soxtalk but I gotta say...there is not a single batter in your lineup that I don't want to watch hit. There's not a single pitcher on your list that I would be angry about having tickets for his start. This is about entertainment...and I love dreaming that Madrigal is going to be Rod Carew, that Robert is going to be Ken Griffey Junior, Vaughan is going to be Frank Thomas, Eloy will hit 50 home runs a year and they won't even be the best player on the field. I love the idea that Kopech, Cease, Rodon and Giolito could create a late 90's Brave-like rotation. My god we suffered through the 2018 tank year where Yolmer, Engel, Palka, Davidson, Navarez and Avisail were 6 of our top 9 batters by at bats and Dylan Covey, James Shields and Hector Santiago were three of our top 6 starters by IP. But past is prologue. i think we are on the cusp of something amazing.

Thanks for reason and optimism Poppy. The off season is a long way from being done. And for all the glory being bestowed upon Wheeler...the Mets did let him walk away. All of these pitchers have had major arm injuries in the recent past and we want them badly. Yet we have this really good lefty, Rodon, tied up for two more years coming back from injury and no one counts on him for anything. Not saying the future is tied to him but not sure Wheeler or Ryu are better than Rodon and he's lefty and with us already.

I think there may be something to the asshole theory. He's been traded three times already and now cut. Brewers traded him in the midst of a playoff hunt for a half year rental of a guy at the same position. He was young, affordable, had a 1.4 WAR that year for half a season and two years before put up a 4 WAR. There's something we don't know about him that it seems the league must know.

Ok...that's fair. Even a trade to someone for nothing...say a 17 year old Dominican shortstop that wasn't even listed in the top 30 of the International free agent signing might turn out to get you a useful piece for the future.