michelangelosmonkey

The White Sox are actually 3032-2998 under JR's regime. They won the first world series in 90 years under him. Should have won another in 94 but lost to the strike. It's not a legendary franchise but it's ours. They tried hard to repeat after the WS in 2005...but baseball gods were against them...as they are against most teams. Then as that team was beginning to fall apart they lucked into Sale/Quintana and tried to see if they could turn the team into a Randy Johnson/Curt Shilling type WS...but by 2016 they realized that they just weren't good enough...almost everyone on the board agreed...and they sold at the perfect time. They got some great looking parts from the trades and many of those parts are beginning to look good. I'm excited every day to see the minor league box scores. Yes the current team is garbage except for about 6 parts...but that's six parts they didn't have in 2017. Next year it should be 12 parts...and begin to be competitive. Yes it would have been nice to get Machado...but he wasn't the answer....baseball isn't basketball...one guy doesn't change everything. The answer as it's always been is about 20 guys in the minors right now...and six pieces in the majors...and more to come in the draft...and yes...they will spend money...The White Sox have rarely (since Bill Veeck days) been penury.

We had a Kenny Williams problem. He took over a 95 win team with the #1 rated farm system in 2000 and left a dumpster fire 12 years later. But because we had some amazing parts in Sale and Quintana we tried for a few years to limp into the playoffs and hope for a dominant pitching run. December 2016 we started the rebuild. New gm, New team building plan, New minor league coaches, New drafting philosophy...and I think two years on there is a ton of hope. Yes we didn't get Machado...but we weren't winning this year and Moncada has looked great at 3rd...and in theory we have $250 million to spend on parts we need more next year. Maybe the plan won't work but by God it seems like a reasonable plan that is working...with time.

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it. For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects. And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games? Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball. Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321. Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings. Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure? Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats. Dylan Cease was great in his first start. Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games. Hansen looks to be on the road back. Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??

Eloy three hits. TA 3 hits. Robert 4 hits. Good day for the rebuild.

I've been a Sox fan for nearly 50 years. For so many of the years the spring optimism went like..."what if Pat Kelly can hit .300 and steal 50 bases...what if Eric Soderholm develops into Mike Schmidt, what if Chet Lemon....It was stupid optimism over stupid players that were never very highly touted or likely to be stars. But it's what we had and we hoped. But now? Saying Madrigal could be Rod Carew is not crazy...saying Robert could be Ken Griffey, JR, Saying Eloy could be Albert Pujols, that Moncado could be Robinson Cano, Vaughan could be Frank Thomas...Cease, Rodon and Kopeck could be three of the best ten pitchers in baseball. None of that is impossible...and then there are the Lopez, Tim Anderson, Nick Collins, Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, Adolfo, Rutherford, Burger, Burdi, Basabe...all could be very good players. In the past the dream was like the 2005 dream...everything falls in place and you you win once. But today's dream is...everything falls into place and you have a dynasty.

In 1974 Rod Carew got on base 294 times, had 30 doubles and 38 stolen bases and only scored 86 runs. WTF 74 Twins???

I haven't heard the comparison...but why couldn't Madrigal be the new Rod Carew? Carew never hit 15 homers in a year...never hit 40 doubles...was not a great base stealer. But he was a career .330 hitter with nearly a .400 career OBP and 81 career WAR. Imagine Madrigal averaging 200 hits and 70 walks a year...that would look really good hitting in front of Moncado, Jimenez, Robert and Vaughan.

Well you have to be optimtic about Avi. Two homers, three walks, OPS over 1.000...feels fully healthy...oh wait. At least we can wish John Jay a happy 34th birthday this week.

Why does Goins play every day? He's a 30 year old failed prospect. Madrigal didn't get as many at bats. Laz Rivera gets three at bats, hits a home run, and then nothing. Mitch Roman...they have interesting 2b prospects but no point in seeing them over Goins.

nice play by Moncado at 3rd

Yes...but yesterday it was Eloy, Anderson and the garbagetones...But Collins came in and Rutherford and Lugo...so at least something.

Good thing about Spring training is they sub in lots of guys. Rutherford already in...and I'm in my shorts in the sun.

Drove 30 hours with my 93 year old dad...through two blizzards to get here...3 games in 3 days...and we get Goines at second base and Peterson at third first two games. Fugging White Sox.

And yes JD has been amazing the last two years. My only point was that when he was a free agent at the end of the 2017 season it was a reasonable position to say that 2017 was an outlier and he was more likely to regress to the 2014-2016 JD...which was a darn good hitter but non-elite. I'm not sure what to make of his 2018 season...I'm not sure what the research is on this...but it seems like a very good hitter, when surrounded by a lineup of good hitters, will be better. Pitcher exhaustion or synergy or something. I hope/believe it's true...if Moncada is the only "dangerous" hitter in your lineup...the pitcher can bear down and get him out. But if you have Moncada/Madrigal/Harper/Abreu/Jimenez/Robert/Collins/Palka/Anderson...do they all make each other better? The dream

We are talking about the time right before JD signed his contract...so the four relevant years are 2014-2017...and Abreu's War in that time was 17 while JD's was 15.5. I'm not saying you are wrong about JD...I just think the general Soxtalk opinion was to let Abreu walk or sell him for some magic beans....when it seems like he is the guy we should take a chance on for the next three years. He is JD.

Problem is JD is only six months younger than Abreau. Most here are saying Abreau is to old for the next Sox championship run...so why commit $110 to JD when most would not do the same for Jose. The exciting thing for Harper is his age...it seems so rare to have a 26 year old on the cusp of stardom hitting free agency. This year there are two.

It's way early to tell on Robert...it just seems like his walk rate was double Moncada's at same ages in the Cuban league. By most accounts having a good batting eye is one of his skills. Also if he hits for power like the reports say his walks will rise as pitches are more cautious with him. In any event...if the true number for the top 4 is 380? The larger point is we have a bunch of OBP guys coming to team with a bunch of power guys. If they land Harper the upside for the offense is great.

Robert walked 80 times in 600 at bats for the Cuban team and in his brief non-injured time in the minors was on pace for roughly the same. It is one of his skill sets. Collins as a hitter looks like Dunn to me...low batting average, great eye, big power. Dunn had 100+ walks many times in his career. To me the most unlikely is Basabe. It is less rare to have a team with 4 for 400...it's that fifth guy. Still its not CRAZY talk. And if you have an offense with 5 guys with 500 AND Madrigal who I think looks like he could be the new Rod Carew? That's a lot of base runners for for your power guys.

In the last ten years the White Sox have had exactly one hitter with 100 walks in a season...Adam Dunn did it once. Last year the Sox were second worst in MLB in walks. The year before they were third worst. I think walks are an essential skill not only in getting batters on base but also wearing down a pitcher. Its been painful watching their lack of understanding of the strike zone recently.. But is it possible that great days are ahead? In 2020, after we sign Bryce Harper...and Moncada improves...and Robert, Collins and Basabe come up that those five could walk 500 times? OK no White Sox team ever did this...1996 team had five with about 450. Red Sox team in 1949 had five with 525. But it doesn't seem impossible...Harper with 120, Collins 120, Moncado with 95, Robert with 90 and Basabe with 75? We could be building an elite offense. Fun to dream about...all those batters on base and Jimimez and Abreau bringing them home Come om Sox...sign Harper!

Yes but if you are putting the pieces together for a team to compete...having Davidson/Palka lefty/righty DH and occasional fill in at RF/LF/3b/1B is useful. You don't want them as your stars...but they are youngish/cheap and scary on the team if they are your seventh best hitter (Eloy, Abrea, Avi, Moncado, Anderson, Machado)

Davidson/Palka now have played combined 156 games...28 doubles, 3 triples, 32 homers. 58 walks, 82 RBI...nearly .800 OPS. Seems like a fully acceptable DH.

Jeremy Reed, at 22, in AA Birmingham hit .409 for half a season with an OPS of 1.065. I cried when they traded him for Freddie Garcia who did nothing for the White Sox (other than help them win a World Series). I cried when Jeremy got called up to the Mariners at 23 and in 20 games hit .397 with a .940 OPS. And for the next 8 seasons I breathlessly followed his certain Hall of Fame career denying the reality of his suckitude.

I don't get the hate because it seems irrational. For basically 2 years and 800+ AB's Avi has been an .850 OPS guy and people's argument is "yeah but when he was 23 and 24 in the majors for the first time he was a mess"...then every time he goes in a slump it is "well here comes terrible 24 year old Avi again". We are in the midst of a rebuild...good save our souls...every prospect outside of Frank Thomas/Mike Trout struggles before they find it. On this board half the posts are about whose job is it to drag Giolito, Fulmer, Lopez, Moncado and Tim Anderson to the dumpster...and we actually have someone that has broken through and we can't wait to trade him. It is reasonable to question his walks...but go look at Kirby Puckett's career (lifetime .340 BABIP including 4 years above .370). From the 5 years where he was 28-32 KP (basically when Avi will be due a new contract) averaged 5+ WAR a season including a 7.8 WAR in a year where he walked 23 times. And I know people will scoff at Avi=Kirby but at 24 Kirby put up a .655 OPS in 600 AB's/ Wouldn't Kirby Puckett look good in the 2020 lineup? Why would anyone want to trade that for some teams 10th rated prospect?

I was agreeing with you...and using stats in a reasonable way by looking at OPS every half season to eliminate SSS and they showed Avi was not just up and down but in fact seems to be growing as a hitter. As for the low walk rate...Kirby Puckett, Andre Dawson, Ivan Rodriquez, Orlando Cepeda....it makes it harder to be a hall of famer without walking much but there are examples.

I just don't get the Avi hate either. The idea that he is fools gold...that we've seen the good but he always returns to the bad?? Here are his first half second half splits basically for his Sox career...doesn't that look like a young player getting better?? Also if you excuse his April as playing while injured...he is above 1.000 OPS this year. He JUST turned 27...his defense seems to be getting better...why is this not a guy you build around? OPS 2015 0.698 2015 0.650 2016 0.633 2016 0.783 2017 0.850 2017 0.933 2018 0.830