michelangelosmonkey

This year in 300 at bats he has 44 walks. Through nearly 2500 minor league at bats he walked about 12% of the time. Maybe last year...as a rookie figuring out the majors the first time...was the outlier. He hit with near elite power. Yes he's not a good outfielder but if he shows something again...and he's lefty...he could become a useful DH asset. Sure way better than Alonso.

I'm not sure I understand all the hatred for Palka. At 26 he had a .780 OPS in his first shot in the majors, hit 27 home runs in 3/4 of a season (120 games) and finished fifth in rookie of the year balloting. He's a left handed hitter. He dramatically improved his walk rate this year (n AAA and majors). Yes he was terrible in 35 At bats this year in April in terrible weather...but then put up a .920 OPS in AAA. I don't think he's a star but he sure seems worth another look.

I just think that is not true. Rod Carew, in 1971-72 had 1200 at bats and TWO home runs. Ichiro in 2010-2011 played 323 games had 1350 at bats and 11 home runs. Surely you aren't suggesting that Carew and Ichiro in those 2500+ at bats didn't have hundreds of times where a home run would have helped win a game but they chose not to because they didn't want to unleash their hidden power. The two players had a combined 38 years in the majors and five seasons of hitting 10 or more home run and neither player in 38 seasons hit more than 15 in a year. They were great great players but they weren't power hitters. That is Madrigal's path.

Of course he is unlikely to be Rod Carew...but you asked what his upside was. I think Ichiro was the modern Rod Carew...great defense, great speed, great bat control, never hit for power. Or Tony Gwynn....or Robbie Alomar. All those guys had long stretches of 6+ WAR seasons. I think that was the dream with Madrigal....there is a narrative on this board that if you hit for no power there is no room for you in the modern world of baseball. And yet all of us would take a 22 year old Ichiro.

Madrigal's upside is Rod Carew. Singles hitting, good defense, fast second baseman that averaged about an 8 WAR per year over a seven year stretch. Don't give up on him yet.

i get that this is the narrative. Collins is a bad defensive catcher. Future Sox said "Collins has a strong arm, grading out to be average or a tick above. He lacks mobility and is occasionally out of position on balls in the dirt, and his receiving skills are a key focus for him right now." And clearly the White Sox are working on teaching him framing and calling a game. So let's say he gives up a lot of passed balls, and makes some errors catching pop ups. Ted Simmons in 1975 led the majors in errors and passed balls by a catcher and ended up with nearly a 5 WAR...and sixth in MVP voting. Isn't a very good hitting catcher with ok fielding way more valuable than a very good hitting DH?? And while its nice to have great defense...last year Martin Maldonado was Fan Graphs second best defensive catcher and Zunio was third and both had Engel-esque batting stats. I like the idea of our Ted Simmons.

Rod Carew never hit 15 home runs (averaged 6 per year over 162 in a 19 year career) but in a 7 year period put up a 49 WAR. Great fielding second baseman, great speed, good eye, great bat control...that's your ceiling.

Maybe they saw Rod Carew who never hit 15 home runs but had a seven year stretch where he averaged a 7 WAR.

And the 37 years before JR...one post season appearance....so a 500% improvement under Jerry.? This is not the Yankees we have chosen to follow. Still the rebuild was the right path...it's going to take patience. This team was never going to be good in 2019. Kopech/Burdi/Basabe/Dunning/Burger/Robert injuries have hurt...but are not catastrophic for the long run. It still feels like we have a ton of talent that will all come together about 2021. I think we could have a very nice run from 2021-2025.

Come on guys...he was hitting .500 with a 1.400 OPS on April 5th. He's had a few bad games.

The White Sox are actually 3032-2998 under JR's regime. They won the first world series in 90 years under him. Should have won another in 94 but lost to the strike. It's not a legendary franchise but it's ours. They tried hard to repeat after the WS in 2005...but baseball gods were against them...as they are against most teams. Then as that team was beginning to fall apart they lucked into Sale/Quintana and tried to see if they could turn the team into a Randy Johnson/Curt Shilling type WS...but by 2016 they realized that they just weren't good enough...almost everyone on the board agreed...and they sold at the perfect time. They got some great looking parts from the trades and many of those parts are beginning to look good. I'm excited every day to see the minor league box scores. Yes the current team is garbage except for about 6 parts...but that's six parts they didn't have in 2017. Next year it should be 12 parts...and begin to be competitive. Yes it would have been nice to get Machado...but he wasn't the answer....baseball isn't basketball...one guy doesn't change everything. The answer as it's always been is about 20 guys in the minors right now...and six pieces in the majors...and more to come in the draft...and yes...they will spend money...The White Sox have rarely (since Bill Veeck days) been penury.

We had a Kenny Williams problem. He took over a 95 win team with the #1 rated farm system in 2000 and left a dumpster fire 12 years later. But because we had some amazing parts in Sale and Quintana we tried for a few years to limp into the playoffs and hope for a dominant pitching run. December 2016 we started the rebuild. New gm, New team building plan, New minor league coaches, New drafting philosophy...and I think two years on there is a ton of hope. Yes we didn't get Machado...but we weren't winning this year and Moncada has looked great at 3rd...and in theory we have $250 million to spend on parts we need more next year. Maybe the plan won't work but by God it seems like a reasonable plan that is working...with time.

The negativity on Soxtalk has reached a fever pitch and I just don't understand it. For years the mantra has been...we must rebuild to move forward...we need patience...don't rush prospects. And all of a sudden...with so much good rebuild news...everyone is losing their minds over a dozen major league games? Moncada and Tim Anderson are two of the hottest hitters in baseball. Eloy in the last seven games is hitting .321. Rodon has pitched very well in two of his three starts and has 24 strikeouts in 16 innings. Giolito has pitched great in one start and not so well against a hot team...but has struck out 12 in 11 innings and he's a failure? Meanwhile Zack Collins has 4 homers and a triple in 14 at bats. Dylan Cease was great in his first start. Robert is hitting .400 with 4 home runs and three stolen bases in 6 games. Hansen looks to be on the road back. Madrigal had a great spring and we have the number three pick in a draft with three great looking prospects....so many exciting pieces doing exciting things and we are losing our minds because Ervin Santana gave up 7 runs in 3 innings or Daniel Palka is 0-20??

Eloy three hits. TA 3 hits. Robert 4 hits. Good day for the rebuild.

I've been a Sox fan for nearly 50 years. For so many of the years the spring optimism went like..."what if Pat Kelly can hit .300 and steal 50 bases...what if Eric Soderholm develops into Mike Schmidt, what if Chet Lemon....It was stupid optimism over stupid players that were never very highly touted or likely to be stars. But it's what we had and we hoped. But now? Saying Madrigal could be Rod Carew is not crazy...saying Robert could be Ken Griffey, JR, Saying Eloy could be Albert Pujols, that Moncado could be Robinson Cano, Vaughan could be Frank Thomas...Cease, Rodon and Kopeck could be three of the best ten pitchers in baseball. None of that is impossible...and then there are the Lopez, Tim Anderson, Nick Collins, Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, Adolfo, Rutherford, Burger, Burdi, Basabe...all could be very good players. In the past the dream was like the 2005 dream...everything falls in place and you you win once. But today's dream is...everything falls into place and you have a dynasty.

In 1974 Rod Carew got on base 294 times, had 30 doubles and 38 stolen bases and only scored 86 runs. WTF 74 Twins???

I haven't heard the comparison...but why couldn't Madrigal be the new Rod Carew? Carew never hit 15 homers in a year...never hit 40 doubles...was not a great base stealer. But he was a career .330 hitter with nearly a .400 career OBP and 81 career WAR. Imagine Madrigal averaging 200 hits and 70 walks a year...that would look really good hitting in front of Moncado, Jimenez, Robert and Vaughan.

Well you have to be optimtic about Avi. Two homers, three walks, OPS over 1.000...feels fully healthy...oh wait. At least we can wish John Jay a happy 34th birthday this week.

Why does Goins play every day? He's a 30 year old failed prospect. Madrigal didn't get as many at bats. Laz Rivera gets three at bats, hits a home run, and then nothing. Mitch Roman...they have interesting 2b prospects but no point in seeing them over Goins.

nice play by Moncado at 3rd

Yes...but yesterday it was Eloy, Anderson and the garbagetones...But Collins came in and Rutherford and Lugo...so at least something.

Good thing about Spring training is they sub in lots of guys. Rutherford already in...and I'm in my shorts in the sun.

Drove 30 hours with my 93 year old dad...through two blizzards to get here...3 games in 3 days...and we get Goines at second base and Peterson at third first two games. Fugging White Sox.

And yes JD has been amazing the last two years. My only point was that when he was a free agent at the end of the 2017 season it was a reasonable position to say that 2017 was an outlier and he was more likely to regress to the 2014-2016 JD...which was a darn good hitter but non-elite. I'm not sure what to make of his 2018 season...I'm not sure what the research is on this...but it seems like a very good hitter, when surrounded by a lineup of good hitters, will be better. Pitcher exhaustion or synergy or something. I hope/believe it's true...if Moncada is the only "dangerous" hitter in your lineup...the pitcher can bear down and get him out. But if you have Moncada/Madrigal/Harper/Abreu/Jimenez/Robert/Collins/Palka/Anderson...do they all make each other better? The dream

We are talking about the time right before JD signed his contract...so the four relevant years are 2014-2017...and Abreu's War in that time was 17 while JD's was 15.5. I'm not saying you are wrong about JD...I just think the general Soxtalk opinion was to let Abreu walk or sell him for some magic beans....when it seems like he is the guy we should take a chance on for the next three years. He is JD.