michelangelosmonkey

QUOTE(SoxPride56 @ Aug 8, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) When did I say he NEVER gets on base? I just agreed with the guy that said him not doing well in the clutch is getting old. I think there's limited evidence that someone is really "clutch". Jeter for his career has a .317 batting average, and .463 Slg. With runners in scoring position he's .312 and .436. Yet if we listen to the media he's the greatest clutch guy of all time. Thome is .281/.563 career, and .279/.543 career with runners in scoring position. You look at one year and it's just small sample size confusion. Dimaggio was a .325 career BA/.579 slg hitter but a .271ba/.422slg hitter in the World Series. Does that mean you'd bench him for Juan URibe who has a .286 playoff batting average with a .422 playoff slugging percent. Or maybe, you know, you'd keep Joe D in the game figuring it was just a case of small sample size. (and yes...I'd bat the long dead Dimaggio over Uribe).

QUOTE(Allsox @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 11:33 AM) Yuck, I'd rather sign back Jermaine for 2 yrs than be stuck with Abreu for 3 or 4. You're right about Abreu, ee doesn't steal bases, doesn't hit for power anymore and is a below avg RF. At least Jermaine can still hit 30 HRs, play avg defense in RF and is 2 yrs younger. We all know KW will go after the passion and the fire (Rowand) but I wonder about SS, LF and the bullpen. Yuck? OK BA had as bad a first half as Dye did. But in the 24 games since the All Star game he has a .615 slugging percent and an OPS over 1.000. Dye's actually a few months older than Abreau. As for his bad defense? He's a two time gold glover. What makes you say he's bad? And no steals? He'd be leading the Sox with his 15 stolen bases.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 11:15 AM) Agree 100%. Though like 72 I question BA specifically. We aren't winning swinging for the fences. Only a year late in figuring that one out, IMO. Why no love for BA? Career .409 OBP. Some power and speed. OK, he's 33, but he's kinda like Rickey Henderson or Tim Raines (in an era without stolen bases). And both of those guys played well late into their 30's. He really seems more what the Sox need than Andrew Jones or Adam Dunn...and less risky than Rowand.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 10:31 AM) I really wish the Sox would get moving on developing the area around the ballpark a little more quickly. To be consistently successful, the organization has to continue to find more stable revenue sources than their notoriously fickle fans. Even that I'm not sure is exactly true. In their first 84 years of existance the Sox outdrew the Cubs in 43 years, the Cubs outdrew in 41 years. But when the Trib bought the Cubs in 1978...it was over. The number one paper and the number one TV channel now owned the Cubs so from 1984-2005 the Cubs outdrew the Sox 19-2. When the Trib and WGN are broken away from the Cubs this year...maybe the city shifts back to the Cubs. It's an interesting time to be a Sox fan (outside of, you know, the record).

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 7, 2007 -> 09:08 AM) Oh, I'm sure it's true that he said those things. Talk is cheap, like Mark's contract. I don't think the White Sox ARE cheap. They're payroll is in excess of $100 million....top five last year...maybe top ten this year. So why would it be impossible for them to go out and spend $15 mill on a couple of players? They save $3 mill from Iguchi. $3 Mill for Mack. $2 mill for Cintron. $2 mill for Pods. $6 mill for Dye. Not to mention the $10 from Freddie. They use that money to sign Bobby Abreau at $10 per and Scott Linebrook at $6 per? According to Forbes the Sox annual revenue is $173 mill per year...the most in the division...$3 more than Detroit, $15 more than Cleveland and $40 and $50 more than Minn/KC. In spite of all the second-team nonsense...the Sox have money, they spend it and there's no reason to think they won't spend more. With the Trib likely to sell the Cubs this year the hearts, minds and wallets of the countries 3rd largest market is really up for play. Reinsdorf is smart enough of a business man to recognize that he could increase profits if he spends more money.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Aug 2, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) That's right! We weren't good, we were dominant. Every team has breaks, that season we took advantage of them. And as a forty year Sox fan let me remind you all about this one aspect about Kenny. He is a FUN GM. His trading is crazy fun. Every hot stove league swirls with Kenny speculation. And every season he makes lots of interesting moves. So not only do we get a WS, and a team almost always competitive. But we also get the excitement of the 'maybe". I'll even say this...I LIKED what he did with the bullpen. OK...it didn't work and it dragged the team down. But it was all fun speculation. Mac, Aardsma, Masset, Sisco, Logan...all were guys with great minor league track records for striking guys out. Power arms and we had the pitching coach to teach them how to win. Furthermore...all we had to do was to get two of those five to come through...add them to Thorton and Jenks and we'd have the best bullpen in baseball. So, ok, reality came and all five sucked...and dragged Thorton and Jenks into the swamp with them. But man...in April I was getting ready to order my playoff tickets. And that, after all, is Kenny's job. He'd assembled a starting pitching staff that seemed top 10 in baseball. He had a defense that seemed to be top 10 in baseball. He had an offense that, based on last year, was a top 5 in baseball. And now he had a relief staff that could also be top ten. That the offense crapped out. The relief staff was bottom two, that the defense would decline...well it's been a funny year. But we are lying to ourselves if we say we expected the wheels to fall off this year.

QUOTE(LukeGofannon @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) Polanco is nice, Guillen, Ordonez, Sheffield are the only others that are signifigant parts of the Tigers. Grilli blows and Durbin has been lucky. Rodriguez is on pace for like 8-9 walks. The whole year. Ordonez is 5th, Granderson 8th, Sheffield 16th, Guillen 31st (thats in VORP). I'm not sure how Sheffield is "their star hitter". Gas Can has a 4.67 ERA so he's not the relief ace. Also, Miller, Bondo, Verlander are all more important pitchers than Rogers. Their 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, RF, C and DH are over 30. Half of their pitchers are over 30. Their young core is Granderson, Verlander, Zuma and Zuma. My point is everyone is up in arms over the old Sox. Crede, Uribe, Richar, Fields, Buehrle, Garland, Jenks, Danks all under 30. Its not hopeless.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:26 PM) Ask yourself this -- if the Sox have talent, why aren't they winning? Answer is, even with the potential of our players, there are other teams within the division with better teams. Oh, another is this supposed talent really isn't very talented. It's that simple. It's difficult to say, "oh, this worked in 2005," when you're discounting the strength of the American League central; particularly the Tigers. What makes me believe the same formula that worked in 2005 will miraculously reinvent itself in 2008, despite the fact this team has become progressively worse since the championship? Yourself, among others, have to provide a room-full of "ifs" to argue for a winning season in 2008. I offered like three ifs. Sometimes a 90 win team wins 80 games...sometimes it wins 100. That is the wonderful randomness of baseball. Konerko is a career .850 OPS guy. Remeber 2003 when he hit 18 homers with a .230 batting average? Then in 2006 he hit .313 with 35 homers. Same guy...no injuries...or Buehrle who has a career batting average against him of .268...same ballpark, same guy...in 2001 his batting average against was .230. Last year it was .305..it's all part of the great randomness of baseball. Accumulate talent then hope that you get the ups at the same time. The tigers are a good old team with Palonco, Guillen, Ordonez, Sheffield, Inge, Casey, Rodriquez, Jones, and Rogers all over 30. Their relief ace, star hitter and key pitcher all basically forty. Gilli, Robertson, Durbin are all 30. Detroit isn't a dynasty...they are a veteran team with the old guys pulling together with a couple of young talented pitchers.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:16 PM) Too many 'what ifs'. But back to your point, yes....a good leadoff hitter is paramount. And yes, we have some talent, but too much of that talent is one dimensional and it's not like Cleveland, Minnesota, and Detroit don't have this. In fact, Detroit and Minnesota both have pitching that is BETTER than the White Sox. In 2005 no one had better pitching than the White Sox, especially when it counted. So if your scenario that sees John Danks become the next Ron Guidry, Javier wins the Cy Young, and Gio becomes the next Steve Carlton play out then yes...we don't need a lot from our hitting...just a couple rabbits and 2 or 3 boppers to hit the occasional 3-run homer. Trouble is, our pitching LIKELY won't come to that, and we'll still have a horrible hitting shortstop who has the added talent of not being able to steal bases, and an outfield that is one of the worst I have ever seen. EVER. I think we ran an OF of Andy Gonzalez, Rob Mackowiak and Jerry Owens onto the field for one game a couple weeks ago. I don't know if Ozzie was laughing or crying when he made out that lineup card. Point is, I don't think in this division with the multiple teams we have to compete against ...all very difficult, it a smart thing to continue to run out geezers, injury-riddled players, guys who can't run a lick playing this station to station baseball against teams not only talented, but YOUNG and talented. As players like Grady Sizemore, Matt Garza, Andrew Miller, Joe Mauer continue to get better and better with more experience our guys just get older and older. The writing was clearly on the wall last year when even the Royals played better ball after the ASB and currently stand .5 games from pushing the Sox into last place. I am at peace with a rebuilding movement. The 2005 team was built with a bunch of deals where we sent prospects for established players. Deals Kenny made to get in Jose, Freddy, Garland (maybe before KW), Uribe, Pods, AJP...the acquistiion of Jenks, Hermy, Pollite, and Iguchi...Kenny nailed it, hit a homer, bringing in a bunch of solid guys to help win it all. Now, I'd like to see him go the other way, bring in serious future talent for our aging, but somewhat productive veterans. Wait a minute...I'VE got too many what if's? While this board is ready to trade Bobby Jenks for some minor leaguers? Listen EVERY scenario for every team involves what if's. You think the Red Sox this year weren't saying, "If Schilling stays healthy, and Dice-K can really pitch and Beckett returns to form..." of how about Cleveland who last year had a season about like the Sox year this year. You think Cleveland fans were saying...time to tear this baby down and trade key players having down years for other teams prospects? It is just not so that Detroit has better pitching than the White Sox. If you were drafting pitchers from these two teams it would be something like Verlander, Buehrle, Vaz, Garland, Bonderman, Danks, Durbin, Robertson. I'd certainly take JEnks over Todd Jones. And if you think the White Sox hitters are old...take a look at Detroits roster. And by the way...the Sox didn't have Guidry, Carlton or Cy Young in 2005. They had five #2 quality pitchers...who gave you quality starts into the 7th inning every day...then Cotts and Politte were nearly perfect in the 7th and 8th. And then Hermanson and later Jenks to close it out. This year you had Count lose his stuff and every quality relief arm KW brought in has blown up. This year, in spite of Cleveland and Detroit...if Count was the Count of the first half of last year...and we had two of 6 relief pitchers that were reliabe...we'd be battling for the WS.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:00 PM) Sadly, this isn't realistic. This team has been built with aging, injury prone players. Don't think for a second we didn't expect Thome, Erstad, and Pods not to spend some time on the DL. Toss in Joe Crede's back issues and the advancing age of J.Dye and his knee issues and it's no wonder we struggled. If we return the same crew next year, history says they will spend time on the DL. And when one of these guys goes down or the bullpen flames, we bring up players from our AAA who simply don't look like they belong in the majors. Josh Fields has shown the most promise and while Jerry Owens has a few skills I can't see him as a cornerstone CF for a serious championship ballclub. Remember how awful the offense was in 2005? Scratch and claw for every run. In that year we had Cotts and Polite pitch lights out in middle relief. Good starting pitching, good middle relief and a good closer...with just enough offense to win. That formula can work in 2008 or 09. Remember the Contreas of 17 wins in a row? What if that is Vaz next year? What if Danks is 20% better next year. What if Gio is rookie of the year. A team needs a bit of luck to win...and a some talent. Sox HAVE talent...it just didn't work this year. We'll get them next year (while we sit back and polish our WS trophy)

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) So, if the Braves couldn't get Tex, and offered us Salty, Andrus, and Harrison for Jenks, you wouldn't make that trade? I'd rather have traded Konerko for that package. I think good hitting guys who are past thirty and aren't great fielders are easier to find than lights out 26 year old closer. I love Salty though

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:51 PM) Wow, we have a young affordable closer who is leading the AL in saves on one of the worst teams. That is something you dont trade, bar none. We have a young affordable closer who is leading the Al in saves on a team that won the WS 18 months ago. The team is NOT that bad. If they had any offense or any relief pitching in the first half we would be close right now. And next year? Buehrle-Garland-Vaz-Danks-and a rejuvenated Contreas (12 months ago at this time we were talking about the Count as one of the top five pitchers in baseball). We do NOT have to dismantle. Just fix long relief, lead off man and avoid injuries.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:46 PM) the metal in bobby's elbow would seem to indicate that he could get hurt Perhaps there is evidence out there that surgically repaired body parts are more likely to fail again than god given body parts. I'm just not aware of that study.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) Not even close. Young may never hit above .250 in the bigs Batting Average? What is this the 1950's? Chris Young had a .377 on base percentage as a 21 year old in a pitchers park in Birmingham. His strikeouts went down in every minor league season and his walks per inning went up. So he has a good sense of the strike zone. He may not hit .300 any season. But that doesn't mean he couldn't be a .375 OBP guy with 50 steals and 40 homers and play good center field. But...yeah...maybe bad batting average.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) 1. he's injury prone (screw in elbow, weight issues) 2. he's going to be cheap while we suck and expensive when we start winning 3. if you're trying to equate bobby jenks' value to that of pujols, you're off your rocker 3) I'm sorry but you are going to have to remind me where I said that Jenks=Pujols. What I said was Jenks = a prospect that looks so can't miss like Pujols did. But EVEN THEN...prospects miss. People talk about prospects like they are Xbox players. "well we just trade Jenks for these two studs prospects." As if those guys will just step in and become all stars. Here's Baseball Notebooks list of top hitting prospects December 2004. Delmon Young, Casey Kotchman, Brandon Moss, Jason Kubel, Ian Kinsler, BJ Upton, Wes Bankston. Justin Morneau, Jose Lopez and Ryan Garko. THat's top ten...the so called untouchables. So after the Sox terrible 2004...they should have just retooled by trading Buehrle for Jose Lopez and Wes Brankston...and people here would have rejoiced. Beware the sure thing for the hot prospect. 2) where is your evidence we are going to suck in 2008? 1) Where is the evidence he's injury prone? Since he's been in the majors he hasn't missed a beat. And weight issues? Yeah fatness has kept David Wells from enjoying a long career.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) Uh ya, Chris Young is talented but not THAT talented. He's 23 and on pace for 30 homers, 30 doubles, 25 of 28 stolen bases...and a history of getting better as he figures out the league he's in? With plus defense? OK not Pujolos. But in three years he sure could be a top ten player in baseball.

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Jason Donald + another prospect? http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=453228 Why in the world would we trade Jenks for prospects? I'm kinda feeling like Jenks=Lee Smith. That reliable closer for the next ten years. He's on his third year of doing this job so successfully. Seems like a true relief ace is one of the hardest pieces to find...we have him, he's young and cheap. Sure he can look shaky at times...but I think his save percentage is great considering his young. Unless we can trade him for an Albert Pujols prospect...you don't trade (and by the way...who would trade an AP type prospect...accept, you know, us...go look at Chris Young play CF in 2008...sniff, sniff).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) What leverage did Wiliams have with the Iguchi situation? Once again, if the Sox kept Iguchi, they would have gotten NOTHING back when he left. With the Sox so far out, there was no reason to keep a 32 year old 2b, especailly when you have a young 2b prospect tearing it up in AAA, possibly ready to make the full time jump to the majors. I understand this. If I understand this, Gillick is as well, which makes Iguchi's value next to nothing. Not only is Iguchi a dime a' dozen, but I promise you if Iguchi could have brought back a draft pick, he either would have been kept, or brought back a better prosepct. You know, the negative stuff on Iguchi here and this season is a bit surprising. In 2006 he was top 10 OPS for all second basemen. In 2005 he was top ten OPS for all second basemen. This year more like 17th...but the last two months he's been more like the .780 OPS that his career average says he is. I love the potential of Richar...but I think Iguchi will be missed. Not a superstar...but a fine player that cost us nothing and filled the 2B spot professionaly for the last two years.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 02:56 PM) The Twins had a 13.5 game lead on September 20th. The Sox were never in it from like August on, and the Twins coasted to win the division. I didn't say they were in the race. I just said that they MIGHT have been in the race if Thomas and Mags had played all year and had typical years. The idea that the 2004 team was a crap team is wrong...it was an average team when you took out their two superstars. And it was the core of the team that won the WS the next year.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) I'd taken the proven history of the durability of Garland/Buerhle/Vazquez over Verlander/Bonderman/Miller Durbin/Grilli/Seay/Jones are, for the long run not much better than McDougal/Jenks/Thorton. The little span from late May through June killed this team and I am not sure what happened. I also believe the AL Central is vastly overrated. This offseason none of the teams will improve themself except hopefully the Sox. Annointing Detroit's pitching seems crazy. Durbin is 30 and has been a 6.00 ERA guy for most of his career. Jones is FORTY and looks like he may be done (.282 BAA). Nate Robertson is old and smelly. Kenny Rogers is done. Even Bonderman has really only had this year where you would say he's great. Of course the Sox don't have anyone as good as Verlander. But that doesn't make them deep. Detroits winning because they are #1 in all of baseball for batting average, runs scored and slugging percent. And how long will that last? Magglio is 33 and having a career year. Shefield is 40. Ivan Rodriquez is 36. Carlos Guillen is 32. Polanco is 32. Brandon Inge is 30. If I was a Tiger fan I would be more nervous than a Sox fan (though I think they have a bunch of prospects coming up).

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 10:17 AM) "Only" nine games back? In the Comedy Central? Ha! They weren't a good team. Not completely terrible, but definitely not good. Sox were 39-30 in games Frank Thomas started that year. He was hurt after 74 games or something like that. Then Magglio? Those are two guys that are 1.000 & .900 OPS guys. How good would Minnesota have been last year if Morneau and Mauer were out half the season? I think 82-80 with your two superstars off the team is kind of an indication of an underlying good team...the sort of team that with health and a few breaks might win the WS in a year or so.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 08:34 PM) Well, the one issue with that is that a Danks, Garland, Vaz, Buehrle, and Contreras rotation is a $45 million rotation next year. The Sox have experimented with havign 50%+ of their payroll tied up in 4-5 guys before, and it looked a lot like the 2004 team. It has some very good guys, but also has some very big holes because it's filled with whatever can be found cheaply, and if one of those key big guys has a bad year or gets hurt, there's really nothing available to replace them. Actually I think the 2004 team was a very good team. You just lost your two best players for most of the season...and still they finished 2nd only 9 games back. If Mags and Thomas had been healthy all year?? But I just went back and looked at that team and saw Rowands numbers....900 OPS for that season with great defense. .900 OPS for the Phillies for this season. Sandwiched in between are two .700 OPS seasons. That's baseball I guess. You make a run when your health is good and your Rowands are having their .900 OPS seasons.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 07:23 PM) This idea, which has been discussed at length before, is percisely why the trade route is necessary to acquire talent. And why Williams just doesn't need a good trade, he needs a Liriano-esque heist. Does anyone realistically believe this team can improve 12+ games over this season with limited upgrades consisting of a tweaked bullpen and Type B Free agents recovering from injury and/or a poor season? Just look at the various ways we've limited ourselves in acquiring talent: International talent has been abysmal; drafts have hardly been successfull; we're not overpaying for anyone in the free-agent market; we're unwilling to deal with a player representative in Scott Boras who typically represents the best players in the league (and amateur draft). Aside from these points, there are two teams in the division who -- at this point -- have a far better outlook over the next several seasons. Even trades consistent with the return of McCarthy or Garcia won't be enough. As perceive, both those trades are the equivalent of taking one step backwards and one and a half step forwards. We're improved, but hardly to the extent you'd expect from a trade involving multiple players. Several of which (Masset and Floyd) have been rather disappointing. We only win the Garcia deal because he's injured; but what does that really mean if Floyd doesn't improve and Gonzalez -- God forbid-- is injured/ineffective. Williams needs to make a trade before August 1st. I don't give a f*** about the value of lesser parts in Dye, Iguchi, or Contreras. He needs to realize how vital to the future of the ballclub a quality trade will be. We absolutely need it. Garland or Vazquez need to go -- it's that simple. If he can't work out a stellar package from either of those two he's an idiot. There will be no mercy from me. And Chisoxfn, according to your quote from yesterday, if Williams doesn't effectively rebuild/retool the White Sox for next season your view of him will change. Well, one of those points are going to be either proven or disapproven in several days. I've seen how people flip flop on this site and felt I should call you out on it beforehand. I think we get too emotional over this. Our only chance is a Liriano-esque trade? Why do we refuse to accept the fact that we still have the core of a World Series championship. In baseball sometimes a 90 win sort-of team wins 90, sometimes 100 and sometimes 80. There's an incredible amount of luck, injury, career-year, timing etc that goes into a turn around. It is NOT impossible that Contreas turns it around next year. Look at Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz who have had bad years followed by very good years. I mean we are only 12 month removed from the guy being the best pitcher in baseball. So we have a rotation of Buehrle, Garland, Vaz, Danks and Contreas...where Danks gets better and Contreas has a bounce back...anad Garland, Vaz and Buehrle are like they are this year. You cobble together enough offense ( remember the 2005 team was not very good offensively). Inject some fresh blood with good defense. I'm not saying it's going to happen...but I think anyone that thinks we have no chance in 2008 is also wrong.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Jul 10, 2007 -> 07:18 PM) Wow. Good for him. I thought he should have come north with the team this spring for the bullpen. What is KW up to? After the All-Star break, the rotation could be Buehrle, Danks, Haeger, Gio, Pelfrey. If there is such a thing as an exciting GM, KW is it. Can't you just feel that something will be announced tomorrow? This means that after Floyd was sent down, the team he was trading a pitcher to realized that KW was not bluffing and met his demands. One of the starters must have been traded. Since Gavin had been sent down already, Haeger was brought up to fill the void. That's my attempt at figuring out KW's genius. I'll guess Garland is a Dodger and Kemp and Billingsley are on their way. If I'm right, I'll play the lotto this weekend. You know we so rarely mention this. I mean this isn't religion or health care...this is a sport and supposed to be fun. I have had more FUN with KW as GM than any in my near 40 years of being a baseball addict. HUGE trades...Jim Thome, David Wells...free agent signings...Jermaine Dye. Weird acquisitions...Iguchi. And at every trade deadline...he's one of the players. In the "game" of building a baseball team...KW is Reggie Jackson...maybe not the greatest ever but sure fun to watch and listen to.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) I've long compared Sweeney and Garret Anderson but I'd like to point out that I'd be absolutely stunned if GA did roids. GA doesn't even dive for baseballs because he claims diving would hamper his longevity in the game. His hr's dropped in correlation to his back issues flaring up and nothing more, imo. The guy, when healthy, is a fantastic all around hitter, but the problem is he probably will never be truly healthy again (too bad for the Angels both him and Salmon took there major dives right after they were given fat contracts with the club). This is the problem with the steroids age. Here is GA stats Garret at bats Homers At Bats/homer Minor League 2112 23 92 Majors 23-27 2908 73 40 Majors 28-31 2595 121 21 Majors 32-34 1560 48 33 All players have peak years...but this is oddly peak. That and he lived in California. Worked out with the Giambi brothers (according to Angels chat sight). Grimsley said it was going on in the Angels WS team. God knows its no evidence but it is a bit smelly. HOWEVER...in my research...how about Steve Garvey who added power...or Al Oliver. If Ryan Sweeney becomes Al Oliver we'd be fine. OK. I'm back on the Ryan Sweeney band wagon. But bring him UP. Al Oliver, Anderson, Garvey...were all major leagues by 22.