michelangelosmonkey

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) I should have specified that $8M/year from the Sox is drunk thinking. The Sox have too many holes to fill to gamble that amount of money on a player like JD. Now a team who just has a couple of holes, namely DH and LF, yeah, they may take a flyer at $8M/per. Let me put it to you this way...if you're KW would you rather pay JD $8M next season or would you rather get 2 decent relievers to fill out the pen? I don't know, man. There are so many holes on this team that it's tough to even speculate what will happen. Like you said, if we spend the money elsewhere, ie. relief pitching, then we've still got a gaping hole in LF with no one in the ml system to fill it. I think spending money on relief pitching is an even bigger crap shoot than it is on Dye. Middle relief is typically guys that arne't good enough to be starters or aces. So you get a bunch of B prospects that have up and down years. Could we all agree...$6 mill for Dye for leftfield, two years, third year team and player option? And by the way...the difference between .270/30 and .290/35...I'd take either one of Pods or Erstad.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) Sweeney should be fine. He's progressed each year, despite being one of the youngest wherever he's been. He just needs a full year in AAA, though I see a Sept. callup [or sooner if a trade happens]. Sweeney should be an above avg defender, hit for an avg near .300, have an OBP over .350, and hit 10+ HR's. His lack of HR power isn't a concern if you get HR's from elsewhere. So Jay Payton? I don't know...I'm struggling to find a comparable guy. Walks a little bit but not much. Hits for very little power. No speed. He's no longer the youngest at AAA and is repeating a level and is NOT progressing. Last year he hit .296 with 13 homers. This year he's at .285 with 5 in more than half as many at-bats. He'll find less pitchers that will make mistakes to him in the majors for him to hit singles if he can't hit for power and doesn't own the strike zone. I remember when Harold Baines came up they said his power would come...but at 22 he was in his second year in the majors and was hitting a dozen homers at 21. Just give me an example of a major leaguer like him...and I'll be more comfortable.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) Even if he goes to one of the worse teams in baseball, we will still get decent picks. Worse case you don't get as many first rounders but you are still getting talent (plus often times you can get first round talent a little later if you pay extra). I would be all for Dye if you got him at a bargain. 8 mill a year isn't that. You get him to agree to an incentive laden 2-3 year at 4-6 mill deal and I'd think that would be a decent option with the club than finding a CF and sticking with youth in the other spot. I should point that we would be signing Dye as a LF, not a RF. Note: I still think a team will give him around 3yr 24 mill and that could turn into a good deal but it is also too much for the Sox to pay when there are guys like Ichiro, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and Torri Hunter out there. I'm not positive on how the compensation works...but I think he has to be top 10 at his position to get the two picks. They use two years I think...so I wouldn't bet that he's a sure thing for compensation. I do like your 4-6 mill with incentives idea. But as for Ichiro, Jones, Rowand, Hunter? I suspect they will all be way more expensive than $8 mill per.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) If he doesn't improve this season and thinks he's going to get $8M from someone, he's drunk. If he got his true market value (no defense, low average, moderate power) of somewhere between $4-5M/per for 2 years I'd keep him on in LF. Maybe $8 mill is high...but drunk? Carlos Lee has the same career OPS as Dye, is 1 year younger and just signed for $15 mill per. If you say we have some guy in our system that can put up an .800 OPS in left field and will be cheap. Great. Who is he? IF there is some free agent we can get INSTEAD of JD for $8 mill that will put up an .800 OPS for left field...who's that guy?

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Extending Dye would be as stupid a move as could be made. Thanks JD, but see ya. Why exactly? Because you suspect he's done? People thought that about him a couple of years ago and he's been a huge value for the Sox. So many people would rather see Ryan Sweeney in right field and I think...other than being young (and not SO young anymore) what has he ever done? An OK singles hitter. And that's better than JD at a bargain?

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:27 AM) Getting nothing would be better than signing Dye to a bad contract. Dye has been one of the best FA signings I've ever seen. But his defense is obviously deteriorating. I don't know if it's injury or age, but I think he can't play RF anymore really. And .290/35HR would be the 2nd or 3rd best season of his career (it would be a .900 OPS season). That's real unlikely to happen. If no one wants to trade anything remotely useful for him, play him the rest of the season and hope he does well enough that the Sox can offer arbitration and get draft picks. I was thinking an .850 OPS which is about what his park adjusted career ops would be. Remember this guy has had years of .950, 1.000, .850, .880 and injury shortened .915 in the last ten years. If his defense has deteriorated so badly...how about LEFT field...where we have suffered with a .690 OPS since Carlos Lee left. Really how much worse would Dye be than Lee...and if we could get him at a down point? Granted he may NOT bounce back...but to say the guy is done...when he's half a season removed from being an MVP candidate? You know...we aren't the Yankees...we can't rebuild in the offseason by opening our billfolds. And if we have assets...like Dye and Crede and Contreas...who suddenly have lost their value more than their ability? Is it unthinkable to try to make a run with them next year? I loved the trade of Garcia last year. But what's the point of burning down the house if we get nothing in return for it?

QUOTE(wilmot825 @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 01:57 AM) My honest answer would be Dye and Contreras would be the top candidates to be traded soon. But as usual I am not to quick to jump the gun because of these reasons. 1) Kenny has fooled us before 2) Those 2 guys are not the only ones leaving 3) Ozzie likes Jose too much and Jose has had his best years here 4) Javy seems to have more market value 5) Is there a better package to ship off so we receive a better product? I still am baffled that Ryan Sweeney has not been called up to the Bigs again. And heres one totally out of the donkeys ass, a return of Brian Anderson. Is it possible that the send down could have sparked something, jolted something in his baseball mind? It can't hurt to find out now before we make a run for Rowand, Hunter, or who knows Is it just me or is Ryan Sweeney really beginning to concern anyone else? Almost 300 at bats at Charlotte which is a hitter's park...and he's got FIVE home runs? He's not a baby anymore...22 at AAA and repeating we ought to see something. We've been told he's one of our system's crown jewels...but what exactly does he do well? He's not the fielder that Brian Anderson is. He doesn't walk a ton. Hits for no power. His average is ok...but a corner outfielder with no speed or power? I'm not sure why we would call him up again...he's got to prove something at AAA first I would think.

Jermaine Dye is hitting .214 right now. He's been injury prone a lot of his career...and has seemed hurt much of this year. He's 33. Is he REALLY going to bring trade value? Is he REALLY going to get a good contract in the off-season? You think the Sox could extend him at say $8 million per year for three years? The idea is he may not be the 1.000 OPS guy from last year, but also not the .670 OPS of this year. If you can sign a guy when he is mentally low and get a discount, there's no real reason to believe that he won't bounce back and be more like a .290/35 homer guy with pretty good defense. JD next year at $8 instead of Ichiro at $15? So many on the board are talking about some teams top prospect or just waiting to collect two number one's for him. But what if the option is neither...he walks and we get nothing.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) Rauch was a guy that was not liked by many. I won't get more in depth than that, but there were a lot of people celebrating when he left the org. I never heard anyone say a nice thing about Rauch the person. So, then, maybe this is another point in favor of Ozzie. Hard love for young players. Seems to me if you are in the Sox organization, you are 19 and you think the world is your spitoon...your coach can walk over hand you the rookie cards of Jon Rauch, Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy and say something to the effect "This is the White sox...fix your attitude or Ozzie will destroy you". The more I think about it the more I think signing Ozzie to a ten year extension would be great for the organization.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 09:48 AM) If you hustle, if you do the little things, if you don't have an ego the size of...well...Ozzie himself, if you go up to the plate aggressively, if you challenge hitters but get beat, Ozzie will take a liking to you. Grinder? Maybe. But, all he wants to see is someone who is improving. Remember at the end of last year, BA was hitting better, but Ozzie kept saying he was looking better. He doesn't care if you hit .220 or .280 as long as you don't look like a fool at the plate, because those will become hits eventually. When BA came back this year, he reverted to first half last year form and THAT'S what pissed Ozzie off. Brandon, I think, was more of a Kenny Williams decision. But that's just a hunch. But Jon Rauch? He was just a kid...in the majors for the first time...and he did some fool thing and GONE. It's interesting. Clearly he's not Dusty Baker who doesn't want young guys. But if he meets a young guy with an ego? Dog house. Even more curious since Ozzie as a player was up and brash at 21

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 07:38 AM) This is inaccurate to say the least. He consistently preaches getting better at bats, but the players appear to be too stubborn. Cora has interviewed for manager jobs and Razor Shines is regarded as a potential future manager. As for young talent, he's given lots of rope to Danks, Masset, Fields, Uribe over the past few years, Logan, Owens is getting another chance, etc. etc. Regarding staff providing him info, Mike Gellinger for one gives him tons of information, both in written form and video. I think Ozzie also has a great sense of the marathon nature of the game. He'll defend Uribe's fielding after a crucial error because he knows it's not a game of perfection. He'll trot Aardsma out there for five disasters in a row in May because he sees the potential in the kid and he knows if he can turn it around he will be a key player for the rest of the year. He will stick with guys like Garland and Contreas and Vaquez through long slumps where we the fan would have traded them away for a bucket of balls. He'll let a guy like Danks pitch in the 8th with two runners on, while he's tiring, because he knows someday the kid will need to know how to do this and might as well do it with an 8 run lead. My biggest problem with Ozzie is...Brian Anderson, Jon Rauch, Brandon McCarthy...wtf happened???

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:06 PM) The job of the GM is to put a team together that will make the playoffs, the job of the manager is to win the playoffs. Kenny has not put good enough talent that fit well together out there consistently over his tenure. I really dont like JR's thinking of always hiring from within. For instance with firing the amateur scouting director and replacing him with someone else in the same department. You need a fresh look sometimes and that is something ths Sox lack a lot of. Just because someone is IN the organization doesn't mean he has the same outlook as his fomer boss. Look at KW...he was promoted from within...and wow...what a weird ride it's been with Kenny. First year he trades our "young ace" Sirotka for David Wells, then he trades our "young ace" Kip Wells for that turd from Pittsburgh (sorry I forget his name). I nearly cried when he traded Jeremy Reed...and when he cut Jon Rauch. And when he traded Chris Young. I had them all as future super stars. I was wrong (well I still think Chris Young will be a star). KW wasn't always right...but Iguchi, Dye, El Duque, Contras, Freddie Garcia...then trading Freddie Garcia just in time. If he trades Buehrle we KNOW it's not because he's cheap or stupid...but the investment in money and the return in talent fit into KW plan.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:39 PM) You have a dominant ace in Buerhle. Why do you feel the need to trade him for a power pitcher who in 6 years we will trade away anyway beacuse we won't give him over a 3 year deal. Power pitchers are way more likely to get injured than finesse pitchers like Buerhle and JG. Hey maybe we can trade for Prior and Wood, they are power pitchers and were considered to be potential ACE type pitchers!!!What's the point. For you to say you would rather have a rotation of JV, Danks,Floyd, GIO and DLS, instead of MB,JG proven winners by the way,JV, Danks, and then you can choose who the 5th starter is. Your rotation really scares me big time. I'm NOT saying that's my rotation. I actually wish the Sox would sign Buehrle...because guys like Radke and Glavine are winners. But I'm saying that a winning team is a collection of talent. Some pieces are more important than others. If Buehrle is over valued in the market place where the Sox can get some other teams #1 prospect and #7 prospect? AND he's going to tie up $15 million in salary? Worth a shot. And by the way...you don't have to wait 7 years for a young pitcher to develop. Look at Danks. Look at Lirano last year. Dontrelle WIllis. Peavey. There are young pitchers that can be dominant right away...but they are unproven. Buehrle will never strike fear in the hearts of other teams...but he will throw shut outs and win lots of games. It SEEMS that when you get to the playoffs...Schilling sorts are better than Buehrle sorts.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) THIS MESSAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE WHITE SOX FRONT OFFICE. Listen I used to be EMBARRASSED by KW. I was a Bill James fan back in the early 80's...bought his second prospectus (no one really bought his first). I read Moneyball where Billy Beane basically considered KW his fool. KW was kind of the anti-Bill JAmes. But KW said when he became GM...I'm going to get a WS or die trying. And no sacred cows. Traded beloved players, fired managers, made controversial trades. IT's been FUN to watch him as GM...and by the way...he did win a WS. So don't we have to cut him slack? And now he seems to be figuring things out. I really liked his 'idea' in the off-season to get a bunch of power arms for the bullpen. God knows it didn't work...but it was a good plan. And trying to find a couple of aces? And trade a guy like Buehrle who is beloved for someone like this 21 year old Dodger outfielder? I LOVE the gambling spirit. So call me a front office guy if you want...truth is I'm just a monkeyboy who loves the Sox, am glad my dad didn't die before he got to see them win, and think Kenny has a plan. ok?

For all you guys bashing Kenny Williams...you must not be old enough to have been a Sox fan in the '70's and '80's. Every year under KW we have had a chance and one time we won the WS....there are 30 teams trying for the WS...which means all things equal we should win once a generation. I respect your greed but...my dad waited 80 years for his first. I think we should be patient waiting for the second to develop. But god bless Kenny because I think he's NOT patient to wait and I think I see what he's doing. Having two dominant power pitchers leads to WS wins...Pedro/Schilling, Johnson/Schilling, Clemens/Cone (twice), Cone-Wells, Brown-Fernandez, and by the way...Santana and Liriano would have won it for the Twins last year if not the injury, same with Wood-Prior. So the Sox have Buehrle...a very good lefty...Glavine-esque. And Garland another non-strikeout guy that is great on a team with good offense/defense...but there is little history of two non-strikeout pitchers leading a team to the WS. When Sox won it was Contreas that was clearly the ace...and Garcia was a strikeout guy too. If I'm KW I don't try to emulate Atlanta with the long stretch of pennants...but try to find the formula to win the next WS. Vazquez, Danks, Floyd, Gio, De Los Santos, the lefty they drafted #1...he's trying to get us in a position to have the next Clemens/Cone. If he has to use Buehrle and/or Garland to get us that true dominant ace? Let's give it a shot.

Lest we forget: BF (Before frank) Place Year 7 1989 5 1988 5 1987 5 1986 3 1985 5 1984 1 1983 3 1982 3 1981 5 1980 5 1979 5 1978 Then he gets called up and: Place Year 1 2005 2 2004 2 2003 2 2002 3 2001 1 2000 2 1999 2 1998 2 1997 2 1996 3 1995 1 1994 1 1993 3 1992 2 1991 2 1990 Now he's left and...3rd and 4th? When Frank was here...admit it...EVERY SINGLE YEAR we thought we had a chance to win it all. In the 70's and 80's...we never thought we had a chance. God bless you Frank Thomas...16 years of hope.

This is a ridiculous attack from PR. There were two possibilities with this team...they were a championship team that needed a bit of tweeking as I think KW and most of us thought...or they were an aging team that had played better than expected the last few years and were due a run of bad luck as people like Baseball Prospectus thought. What KW did in the off season made a lot of sense given what he thought. Replace a poor bullpen with a bunch of power arms...have Coop fix the Sisco's and Aardsmas of the world like he did Thornton the year before (people forget how horrible Seattle thought Thornton was). I admit I didn't like the Pods/Erstad moves...but they were cheap and I figured Brian Anderson would be better and maybe Sweeney would come up and make a slick fielding outfield that was learning how to hit. Toby Hall was a good move as was lefty killer Perez. But then they didn't keep perez. Ozzie hated Brian Anderson. Toby Hall got hurt. Crede got hurt. Thome got hurt. Dye is having his career down year after his career up year. Konerko proves again when he has to he can't carry a team. Iguchi's looking old. Two years ago everything Kenny did turned out right...now not so much. Still if someone wants to trash KW...after the 2000 season KW took over as GM. His team was the youngest team in the majors, had just won more games than anyone in the AL plus he had the #1 rated minor league system according to BA. He was a teenager that was given the keys to a Ferrari. And yes he had some wrecks along the way...and bad luck. But he showed he was willing to do anything to win a WS...and by the way...HE DID. I like Kenny...I think he's getting better as a GM. If one wants to fault him...fault him for 2001-2004.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) I brought up this possibility a few days back. I would think the Brewers might possibly be interested were we to entertain moving Mark, and I would hope Kenny would look at Weeks as a possibility in regards to the player we get in return. Undoubtedly Kenny will first ask for Yovani Gallardo, which the Brewers will say "absolutely not." However, Weeks might be a guy they would consider moving if they truly wish to make a push towards the postseason. Perhaps Iguchi could be included to get an arm coming back our way... I would hope Kenny isn't so blinded by pitching that he doesn't undestand you need position players too. Those that say the Brewers would never do this...I think Weeks has been a bit of a disappointment to them...and is now on the DL. And it sure would fire up the Brewers fan base if they got a pitcher of Buehrle's caliber...plus the new owner of the Brewers HAS money and has promised a splash. AND the Brewers owe us for dumping Pods on us for Carlos Lee

So...would you trade Buehrle for Weeks? Could be the next Robbie Alomar. Good batting eye, hits for power. Hits for average. Steals bases. I know his major league stats aren't great yet...but he's only 24, had a minor league OPS of almost .900...and was the second overall pick in the 2003 draft. Frankly a guy who gets 1000 at bats in the majors before he turns 25 and maintains a .750 OPS at a position where its hard to find offense? Building block for the future. Would the Brewers? Buehrle and Sheets make an intriguing post season pair of aces.