michelangelosmonkey
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Posts posted by michelangelosmonkey
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7 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:
Stop. Just stop.
It is a waste of time, it is a waste of bandwidth, it is mental masturbation to squander a billisecond dreaming of this org having enough trade ammo to go get anything more than a rental.
It is FURTHER mental masturbation to squander a billisecond thinking about this ownership putting as much cash as it would take to pay BOTH Hendriks and Kimberly.
Once again, just stop. K?
And hiring TLR was "moronic". Thanks again for your wisdom. (note WS top five payroll in 00's, 90's and 80's when the team was competitive )
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Over the last 200 at bats for Engel...2021, 2020 and Sept/Oct 2019...he's slashing .278/.319/.500...10 doubles and 11 homers. Plus great speed and gold glove defense....why do we need a right fielder again?
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1 minute ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:
You mean 4 starters, Yoan, Nicky, Eloy and Robert...what this team did to TB by winning 2/3 with basically half our team out is nothing short of amazing.
And Engel.
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4 hours ago, tray said:
I
I know, it is heresy to suggest moving a star player to a different position (as some suggested when Moncada was moved to third), but thinking outside the box for a minute, perhaps Eloy in LF, Engel in CF and Robert in RF might be worth trying once Eloy and Robert return.
I don't care as much about having a LH bat in the outfield as I do with defense and HR power. Engel is second only to Mike Trout at robbing home runs.
I've thought the same thing...but Robert covers so much ground in CF. With all the shifting baseball does and as fast as Engel and Robert are...i wonder if you could play Robert as the RCF and Engel as the LCF and have Jiminez just stand on the LF foul line and tell him not to move unless it's hit right at him.
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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
Keuchel's best game of the year !
Mendick a big hit and help from TB defense.
Engel HR now with 3 in a short period of time !
Since Sept 2019...Engel has 10 home runs in 184 at bats....slashing .280/.330/.495...and playing gold glove defense. I know they have babied him by giving him favorable matchups...and its still only a couple of hundred at bats...but at some don't you give him a 60 game, play every day, stretch to see if we may have something really interesting here?
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11 minutes ago, Lillian said:
I have no objection to your suggestion. If you can suggest a LH power bat, to play a corner outfield position, who could be acquired, without giving up too much, it should be considered. Whom would you recommend?
Phillies have 5th highest payroll in baseball...and they are a .500 team this year, sub .500 last year and .500 in 2019. Their rebuild has been a disaster. Bryce Harper as our RF for the next ten years?? As a trade would be salary cap relief for them so I'm not sure it would take much in prospect capital. Engel, Burger and one of the HS pitchers?
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36 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
I will be honest, I do think the Sox time of reckoning is coming with their pitching. A LOT of their innings are going to come from guys who are doing this for either the first time in their lives when you look at Cease/Kopech/Crochet, or have a history of not being able to pitch this long in Rodon. If they stay healthy? Yeah, they have a good chance. Do I see it happening that all of those guys make it through to the playoffs with availability and health? I wouldn't bet on it. Then we are also assuming that nothing bad happens to the rest of the big three, which is much safer, but you never know.
Hopefully the rest of the core also stays healthy.
I would like to add that if you let me have ONE of Rodon, Cease, or Kopeck as playoff starter then we have still have four very good starters. And certainly at the start of the year we thought this would be an offensive team...and by October we could have well rested Robert and Jiminez added to a top three offense. Plus I think we add at the TDL. As I've often said...Sox had top 5 payroll in 00's, 90's and 80's when the team was good. No reason to believe JR will be cheap here.
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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
Unlike most years, I think my biggest worry isn't talent based, but physical limitations. We are going to ask a LOT of guys to put in a total number of innings that they have either never done before, or hasn't been able to do on a consistent basis in their lives. When it comes to Cease, Rodon, Kopech, and Crochet, we are asking guys who are conditioned to be sprinters to run the marathon this year, with no real training at going that distance. Maybe we do get lucky there, but I don't like those odds.
Yes I think Calisoxfan has done a nice job arguing that. But the other thing is...these guys have been throwing their whole lives. Chris Sale went from 23 inning to 71 innings to a decade of 200 innings. Rodon has had injuries but like I argued in an earlier thread...someone like Mike Minor had a career of injuries but then when he turned 30 he had a couple of 28 start/175 inning seasons/5 WAR seasons. Cease was on pace last year for a 160 innings...it was just COVID. They are young and strong and stretched out. Kopech and Crochett are obviously different...but I'm not counting on them. Maybe they get tired out at the end of the year but every baseball team has the same concerns.
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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
I am enjoying it. But that doesn't mean I can't be willing to face reality to where this team is, and will be in a few months. Honestly I think I am enjoying it more because I don't have expectations of this team winning a World Series to feel like they did something big this year.
Agreed...I mean there are a lot of days where Cease or Rodon go out there and I think...this is the day where the magic ends. But the optimist in me thinks...it happens...these two guys have always had amazing stuff, they have a new pitching coach...why not? If Cease and Rodon turn back into pumpkins in September, obviously the team won't win. But maybe this is the year where, like Gio in 2019, it all comes together.
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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:
Eh, #1, the Sox have to survive this season first with a relative amount of health. If the pitching doesn't stay healthy, this team is toast. So as a part of this we are relying on Carlos Rodon, who has been hurt more often in his career than not. We are relying on Crochet and Kopech who are both looking at innings performances WAY over anything they have in recent years at best, ever at worst. We are relying on Dylan Cease who has a career high of 141 innings. We are relying on Dallas who missed a chunk of 2020, and missed half of 2019, as well as missing big chunks of 2016 and 2017,
#2, Vegas odds are not set to determine favorites, they are determined to maximize profits.
I mean there are reasons to like the Sox chances, but there are LOT of things that can go very wrong, and a good chunk of them aren't that far out of reality.
It's fine to be aggressively pessimistic. Dodgers won 302 games in three year stretch 17-19 and didn't win the WS. I think it is unlikely that the Sox win the WS just because it's baseball and once you get to the playoffs randomness happens. That happens every year to every playoff team...so I'm not sure at any point for any future White Sox team you can say...yup...this is the one that's going to win. Like wise I don't think you can count this team out because Rodon didn't use to pitch like this, or Kopech and Crochett are young. This team, at this moment, is great and has a chance to be greater...you should be enjoying it.
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1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:
I saw four different Vegas odds sights and all four had the White Sox as the most likely AL team to make the WS. I'm not saying they will win...I'm saying the idea that "the team isn't ready" seems confidently pessimistic. I'm not sure I've ever seen four starting pitchers as consistently dominant as this group has been. Combined 275 innings, 1 WHIP, 88BB/350K. If they started the playoffs tomorrow I'd be as confident as one can be given the randomness of baseball.
And they are 23-10 with a 2.60 ERA. Honestly it's like throwing an ace out every game in a short series. The defense is good, the offense has scored the third most runs in baseball. And I'm not even counting Keuchel or Kopeck...and Robert and Jiminez are probably going to be back. If not now, when?
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4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
Even the statistical models have the Sox at somewhere between 7:1 and 10:1. That is the definition of not confident.
I saw four different Vegas odds sights and all four had the White Sox as the most likely AL team to make the WS. I'm not saying they will win...I'm saying the idea that "the team isn't ready" seems confidently pessimistic. I'm not sure I've ever seen four starting pitchers as consistently dominant as this group has been. Combined 275 innings, 1 WHIP, 88BB/350K. If they started the playoffs tomorrow I'd be as confident as one can be given the randomness of baseball.
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6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
It is asking too much of those guys to be out the vast majority of the season, and then carry a winning playoff load.
I feel like this is not going to be the best Sox team in the five year window...but to be confident that they won't win the WS...with the way Lynn, Cease, Rodon and Gio have been pitching? Dominant starting pitching can take a team a long way...look at 2005 WS winner.
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28 minutes ago, Baron said:
Nothing a little goal post shifting wouldn't help.
Did Collins run over your dog or something? Every time he catches you have multiple posts about how bad he is at everything. Yet team ERA when he catches is under 3...and his OPS is just under .700. Back up catcher hatred is odd.
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15 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:
There is a solid consistency of people who come at me claiming I said things I never did.
There are a lot of intelligent posters here. There are also a slew of people who apparently are incapable of reading comprehension and have to mischaracterize arguments to create an imaginary leg to stand on.
@southsider2k5 also, as expected, once again failed to answer simple yes or no questions because he cannot admit my criticism was correct. That's bias, something I do not show. You ask me a question, I'm not going to be a coward and hide.
Once someone poses a direct question to you and you fail to answer and then have to try to ask counter-questions to make yours seem to take precedence... you lost the argument. Fucking period.
A lot of people seem to just want to argue just to argue around here. Excuse the shit out of me for wanting it to actually go somewhere and make sense.
I'm sorry but you never answered my question. Maybe you are just too childish. It shows the weakness of your mind that you are afraid to even confront the very real and serious issues I've raised. You are always obfuscating by answering my question with a question about your questioning questions.
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10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:
The Sox quietly are very good at developing and finding useful catchers.
Right? I can't get over how good Narvaez has turned out. Collins, Yermin and I think Seby has some kind of major league career.
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Haha...just came over to read some positivity about a REALLY fun team that has an amazing future and I see it's been hijacked by Ragah telling everyone they are stupid and wrong and the team is probably headed for disaster. We just went into Minnesota...without Jimenez, Abreu, Robert and Engel and we beat them two out of three and they were lucky to win one. The good times are here...rejoice...and yes the bad times may be ten minutes down the road but for now best record in baseball tastes pretty good.
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Lot of hatred in the game thread about Collins...Baron makes multiple posts about Collins being worst catcher in baseball every time he catches...making me wonder if Zack has run over Baron's dog or something. Still Collins got on base twice, his OPS is .700 (which is hard for a guy that plays twice a week) and the pitchers ERA when he catcher is under 3.00...including the no-hitter. Lefty power hitter, good batting eye and seemingly calls a good game...lots of value in that.
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Sorry I just got out of the time machine from January 2020 and streets are empty and the few out are wearing masks, Tony La Russa is the manager and the Sox outfield is Vaughan, Leury and Mendick. So...post apocalypse?
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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Yeah, a 6.75 fWAR at his age is pretty alarming. Lots of shortstops hit 45-50 homers per season, they practically grow on trees. He also had a 3.1 defensive rating in 2020 at 6’4” and handles the position much better than ARod or Ripken at similar sizes did. Btw, what was Kris Bryant’s K rate at the same age....well, he was just finishing NCAA ball.
Besides, I’ve read this same argument about Tim Anderson nearly every season when he goes through a rough defensive patch, it’s just that starting the season and trying to justify a new contract are things to overcome...and he’s also having to get used to playing with a shoulder harness.
Missed time in 2020 for what, playing in 59/60 games isn’t enough?
We can pretty much say the exact same thing for Jimenez and Robert, can’t we?
The comp to Tatis isn’t relevant because you would be comparing TLR at essentially the beginning on his second full season managing...if he did that at ages 20-21. How old was TLR when he took over the Sox, already mid to late 30’s, with a law degree and life experience?
Even if you want to make a statistical comparison, is TLR really one of the 10-12 best managers in baseball today?
And what happens if we don’t see any noticeable improvement during the dog days of August, which is hard on even a 35-50 year old manager? What then?
Wait....I'm confused are you suggesting TLR can't get around on a fastball anymore? Thank god we have age limits on US Presidents because god knows how they would hit the curve in their mid 70's. So there is no room for confusion by argument is DON'T MAKE CONCLUSIONS BASED ON SMALL SAMPLE SIZES...baseball players, managers, teachers, sales guys. Lots of randomness.
As for Tatis...listen you have the stronger argument...Tatis in March was a transcendent talent...an uber god of baseball that we are creating a new wing for in Cooperstown. He's had a rough April defensively and offensively. He's had a lot of injuries (and yes we can say the same thing for Robert and Jiminez...we should hold off on the Hall of Fame ceremony for a little while). He would not be the first baseball player that had an amazing 160 game stretch and fail...he would not be the first Domincan player to use steroids. He would not be the first guy to start at SS and flame out because he can't field the position. He's a slightly better hitter at this point than Eloy, one year younger...and given a contract worth $250 million more. That's what would worry me as a Padre fan.
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8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:
23 games.
But sure, NOBODY WOULD ARGUE THAT, because we were already arguing how dumb it was simply because Fowler had called out Shields, basically forced him off the team/roster...they were FORTUNATE to get anything back for him at all, but of course JR wanted to save the money versus preserving the talent.
You know, having all that minor league depth and talent actually AVAILABLE to utilize would come in quite handy at times like right now.
By the way, Mookie Betts sucks, has no power and K's too much and Cody Bellinger is injury-prone, lol. Do you really think Dodgers want to rescind their contracts????? C'mon.
With any players other than maybe Trout and Acuna (Buxton it's the injuries), you're going to find a lot of warts.
Finally, when that stupid trade was made, the White Sox were CLEARLY on the downswing from their 23-10 start. Nothing was going to prevent it, certainly not a washed-up pitcher who wasn't even a true ace for the Royals in 2014-15 and was helped out a ton by pitching in some of those bigger West Coast parks (other than COL).
Sorry I was using an analogy and you clearly missed it. My POINT was that it's only 23 games...it is baseball...we cannot make conclusions based on small sample sizes. TLR is not a failure because of a couple of heartbreaking losses in April...Tatis is not a failure because of 23 games in April. Still it would be fair to be a bit nervous as a Padres fan...10 errors in 23 games at SS, -7 DRS in his first 162 games played...if Tatis jr can't play SS and they move him to left field...that $330 million contract isn't so pretty. If his 197 strikeouts in his first 650 at bats suggest teams are figuring out how to get him out...that $330 million contract isn't so pretty. if missing long stretches of the season in 2018 (at AA), 2019, 2020 and already this year suggest he's fragile...that $330 million contract isn't so pretty.
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7 hours ago, RagahRagah said:
Most of those "positives" are not even relevant and are nowhere near in the realm of equal or outweighting the nagatives and either you have not actually thought about the negatives or are being purposely dishonest.
1. Very old
2. Been out of the game for a decade
(This is where you end the negatives? LOL)
3. Had a recent DUI (which establishes a pattern and he's fucking 76). Do I really need to delve into bullet points just for this reason why this is bad?
4. Young clubhouse with attitude starting to get noticed, doesn't gel
5. Behind the game (doesn't understand the modern statistical elements, etc.)
6. Was essentially a pity hire and there were much better options available, no argument
7. Buried the GM by tying his hands and not letting him do his job, making him look weak
8. Potentially allowing a known controlling personality (who is now also on and out of touch) to have power over decisions he probably shouldn't
So many of these cascade and there are at least a few I've brought up before I'm forgetting.
I'm not gonna use the term, "moronic;" I don't believe that is ever a rational thought process. I will say that deductive reasoning absolutely tells you it was a terrible decision. Thinking otherwise is either denial or poor judgement. Asking "who better?" to take a young fiesty club to the playoffs than a 76 year old boomer who is against a lot of things this club exhibits is laughable, and that's putting it nicely. Big lack of awareness there. And what on earth does Tatis has to do with subject?
It's so nice to see how you can be when you are civil. You don't use the term "moronic" you just say I have poor judgment, I am laughable and lack awareness. I brought up Tatis to show the idiocy of drawing conclusions about hall of fame people based on a 23 game sample size. As for you taking my concise argument against hiring TLR and my concise argument for hiring him and expanding the negatives (without really adding anything) and suggesting somehow there is no validity to the positives without even discussing why a man's actual record is meaningless. Again, as I have stated often, I did not want TLR...I just can understand why the White Sox would try him. I was responding to Multiple gun Pete's claim that it was moronic (and his weirdly calling me out to dunk on me as if the case is closed) and I will respond to you describing what moronic means, saying that is what the team was doing without actually using the word. There is only one strong argument against TLR (the drunk driving think is silly, 1% of drivers every year get DWI's...its personal bad judgment that I'm sure TLR is ashamed of...as I suspect you are ashamed of some of your posts). The major question is that he is old, the game has passed him by and his managerial genius is gone. Old is a relative thing. TLR is at the average life expectancy for a man in 2021. Casey Stengel was coach of the Yankees at the average life expectancy of a man in 1955 and then went to the WS five of the next six years. Old does not mean incompetent...ask Behlicheck, ask Saban, ask Popovich. Honestly the only moronic position at this point is that the data is in and TLR is a failed manager because of a couple of in-game decisions that didn't work. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else on this board have any idea what it takes to lead a team to a WS. TLR does and maybe he's old and the game has passed him by or maybe he's sly as a fox and is moving and shaping the team with early lessons that will cost games now but harden the team in the future...or maybe we've lost a couple of our favorite players for the season, we've lost a couple of heart breaking games...we've had a bunch of off days and rain outs and we want to beat up the manager because part of his job is to be the whipping boy.
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1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:
It was unreasonable by almost every possible way you could analyze it. Sorry.
That's not really a reasoned argument...saying "everything was wrong with it" and then "sorry you are stupid". Here is the debate...Negatives...he's very old, he's been out of the game a decade, some personal blemishes. Positives...fluent in Spanish, some personal goodness, he's taken three different franchises to the playoffs, won WS in each league, won a dozen pennants, won more games than anyone born after the Civil War, Hall of Famer. It's not ridiculous to say...the game may have passed him by...he's REALLY old. But it's also not "moronic" to say...he has a lifetime of leading men successfully, 76 isn't that old anymore, players across the league seem to love him...and he's got organizational history...who better to take this team of young guys to the playoffs? Maybe it's right maybe it's wrong but it is not moronic. As for closing the book on the argument based on a couple of in-game strategic errors is just meatball fandom...I get frustrated too...but come on Soxtalk...If Fernando Tatis Jr with his 10 errors in 20 games, 1/3 K rate and .229 batting average were on this team most here would probably be screaming that we should have traded him for James Shields when we had the chance.
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3 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:
Man, this was awesome.
I wonder if this guy still thinks this, or if he still wants to attack me, instead of defending the insanely bad and dumb decision to hire TLR.
Yes I still think it was not "moronic" to hire him. As I said often it was not my choice...but it was not unreasonable. Maybe you are new to baseball Pete...we are a mile into the marathon so a bit premature to take a victory lap. Honestly I was expecting someone to come pee on my head over my questioning of Musgrove after he pitched a no hitter...and now he's lost three of four decisions, given up 8 runs in his last 8 innings...and averaged 4.5 inning in the last four starts. Great FIP though.
Take some time off boys, enjoy the pre All Star Game White Sox Winner!
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
200 consecutive at bats (now 12 home runs btw) over three seasons...at what point is it no longer a fluke? Everything's a leap of faith...2018 NL MVP (and 2nd in 2019) is probably available.