T R U

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 02:03 AM) I don't think it's fair to equate not getting an extension after this season to not being welcome here. Again, not getting offered an extension after this season and being fired are two very different things. EXACTLY! Thats what I am saying, I think that they told him he wasn't going to extended and even went a little further that he might not even be brought back and Ozzie got his feelings hurt.. This is just my theory, im not trying to argue this is what went down..

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 01:59 AM) Francona. It'd be asinine to not take the best available guy. Sox are too cheap to hire him??? Then the fans should not pay the outrageous parking prices and ticket prices AND BOYCOTT THE f***ING TEAM! We can get Francona. Get him! The only thing anyone talks about here is how this team always falls on its face late in the season, so naturally we should sign a manager that just had one of the worst fails in baseball history.. What exactly have the Red Sox done since their last World Series? The exact same as we have pretty much..

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 01:54 AM) Have you not been reading the headlines? Ozzie has been saying for weeks now that he wanted to have his contract situation resolved before he took his vacation with his wife immediately following the season. He's been lobbying for an extension for a month now. It's pretty clear that he wanted more money, and determined he was going to try and get it from Jerry first, and then if Jerry wouldn't pony up, he would plead for his release so that he could get it from the Marlins. Had he just shut his mouth, I think he would have been back, at least to start next year, under the terms of his current contract. I'm not sure how long of a leash he would have had, but I truly don't believe Jerry had any desire to fire Ozzie. Yeah I know he has been pushing for that, but I think that was more about wanting to be wanted here than just about getting more money.. He wanted to have security of being manager here for the foreseeable future.. He didn't need to plead for anything as the Marlins job was waiting for him regardless.. Once he knew that he was no longer welcome here, he pretty much left on the spot.. He got a 4 year deal in the $12 million dollar range, that cant be substantially better than what he was already making here..

So assuming Morel has settled in, what does his full season next year project at? .275 30 2B 20 HR 80 RBI 40 BB 70 K .750ish OPS Something along those lines?

Also, why do this with two games left in the season? To me, it reeks of "Oh, you don't want me here? Then im taking my ball and going home"

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 01:40 AM) I'm not sure this is the case, actually. So you think that Ozzie really just wanted more money, and if not for that KW and Ozzie would both have returned for next season? It feels like they already had that deal with the Marlins in place before this all came about, from everything that I can see it looks like Ozzie wasn't going to be coming back next season either way..

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 12:22 AM) A good essay question for persuasive argument even if you don't take that side. As I just posted in another thread, I don't buy the whole Ozzie quit because he wanted more money claim.. I think that it was already discussed that they wouldn't be extending him past what they already had done, and even furthermore I think it went a little more into the you're probably going to be fired territory.. If the reports are true, which I tend to believe based on how quickly the compensation came up, they had already been in talks with the Marlins about this before Mondays events even happened.. I honestly believe that instead of being fired Ozzie preferred to make it look like he got out of here on his terms.. Instead of just being fired, or let go, he chose to ask to be released and then went on his little rant that he doesn't care about anything but money.. I don't remember ever getting that kind of vibe from Ozzie before, and like its already obvious to see he wasn't going to be returning anyway if you piece together everything we know about the situation.. This way, instead of being fired it makes it look like he was the one who wanted out and not the White Sox who were ready to move on from the Ozzie era.. Also, the fact that it just kind of happened out of nowhere with two games left in the season, I tend to believe that he was informed he wasn't going to be back next year and instead tried to spin it that he no longer wanted to be here anymore.. I think that he DID want to return here, but obviously the feelings weren't mutual.. Ozzie is definitely the kind of person who would take it personally especially with his relationship with KW and knowing that he was being brought back and Ozzie was the one getting let go..

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 11:40 PM) Also, I doubt Francona said "f*** 2004 or 2007, I'm in it for the money." Or Gonzalez probably said "f*** winning, I want more money? Am I gonna die poor in Atlanta." Had Ozzie left graciously, just said things weren't working out, I'd still respect him and feel a bit sad. But now? f*** him. He said "f*** my ring. I don't wear my f***ing ring." It makes me think 2005 was about a pay raise to him instead. Honestly, I think Ozzie just made all that bulls*** up on the spot to make it look like he wasn't getting fired (Which he would have anyways had he not asked to be released) but he was leaving because he wanted to.. It was pretty evident someone was leaving, and it wasn't going to be KW.. To me it just seemed like Ozzie wanted to make it look like he just decided he wanted out instead of getting canned..

lol, the Yankees didnt throw that game.. They "took it easy" by using a pitcher committee, but when youre up 7-0 you dont all of the sudden go "alright, NOW we throw this game!!"

QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 11, 2011 -> 02:41 AM) Well they have a zero percent chance to make the playoffs, so I wouldn't worry about that.. This is what I said about the Red Sox back in April Although, the Rays just stopped me from bragging too much as they broke the stat I was using to base this off of..

All of this just happened within about a minute and a half of eachother.. crazy

Oh man, is it just me or did it look like Boston didnt even give a s*** just now..

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:32 PM) It's not just Rios...it's the general malaise of the team over the course of the last several August/Septembers. We never seemed like a team that had any kind of killer instinct or win or die trying attitude (despite our marketing department's heavy use of the phrase). that has just as much to do with the type of players that are on this team, like Konerko.. hes in a leadership position on this team and he just has an easy going attitude like much of what weve seen.. its too laid back, which is a big problem with our late season failures

haha, I bet J4L cried

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:25 PM) I disagree that it is not his fault. It might not be a fireable offense, but it's certainly proof of another arrow missing from Ozzie's quiver. Eventually you look around and realize there are other guys out there with a whole lot more to offer than the guy you currently employ. So basically you think that Rios could be made to care by someone else? Because I just dont think that hes that type of person.. regardless, I do think that it was Ozzies time to go and I am not trying to defend him..

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) I'm not saying motivating Rios is all on Ozzie, because it's not...but come on...to say that motivating your team is not part of a manager's job is just making excuses. I understand these guys are grown men, and I understand they are professionals making millions of dollars, but there are certain leaders, whether they are baseball managers or football coaches or supervisors in a fast food restaurant, that inspire their employees to give a little more. Ozzie certainly never appeared to be someone with this gift, regardless of how well-liked he might have been by his players. As for Kenny and his willingness to step down, I tend to agree with what I think you are trying to point out in that just because Kenny may understand how to manipulate his boss a bit better than Ozzie, that does not excuse his culpability here. But the difference is Kenny was willing to continue trying here while Ozzie was not. Maybe it had something to do with Ozzie being wanted elsewhere and that not being the case with Kenny, but I suppose we will never know for sure. im not saying its not his job, im just saying that because he cant make Rios care about baseball hes not to fault.. there are just some people who cant be reached

QUOTE (forrestg @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:46 PM) we did.... grief. haha thats true, but I meant in the form of something GOOD

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:54 PM) um... I think you missed the point of the post. No, I understand what you were doing with Greg there this is just a different frustrastion with me that KW is still going to be the GM of this team, which I just dont understand.. As far as the Rios argument goes, how much someone cares about something isnt going to be decided by someone else.. you either have the desire to be great and are willing to work for it, or you dont.. I could hang out with Bobby Flay for the next year, hes not going to make me give a s*** about cooking..

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) KW gets two years to prove that the last 4 years were Ozzie's fault and not his. If he fails, then he'll be gone too. How is that even possible? They are all KW's players.. Ozzie didnt do anything to make Adam Dunn flop, Jake Peavy fall apart, and Rios to not give a s***.. there was nothing that could be done about that.. Yes, who saw it coming.. I know.. However, they were still moves that didnt work out at all.. I dont think I need to bring up Dan Hudson.. KW should have been relieved of his Gm duties just as much as Ozzie should have been relieved of his manager duties.. I dont see what changes with this team now..

QUOTE (MEANS @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:12 PM) really? You can say that about both numbers. Of course you can, I wasn't making a pro Ozzie argument.. I was just saying that comparing the two is pointless as they both have failed and yet people try to act like KW playing the nice guy he deserves to stick around making decisions for this club.. Which he most certainly shouldn't be..

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) Yeah, it seemed like it was a lot worse. Yeah, imagine if we had gotten anything from Dunn, Peavy, and Rios..

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 05:17 PM) Greg- I want you to consider something. You seem like a very loyal guy. Loyal to players, coaches and managers that had a lot of meaning to the organization. Even well after their prime, you defend them. There is something good about that. But let me ask you this. Let's say you are in Jerry Reinsdorff's shoes. He too is a very loyal guy (which alone should tell you something here). The organization has had multiple disappointing years in a row, despite your spending of a lot of money. You've got two people under him, that over the past month, have done this: Person #1 offered to step down to a lower role due to the failures of the team. Person #2 asked repeatedly for a raise and a long term contract, despite those same failures. So, if loyalty is your game... which of those two do you keep? Because it seems to me that you are backing the wrong horse here, based on your own admitted tendencies. Even though person #1 has been a failure at his job since the end of the 2005 season we will give him a pass for being such a nice guy and offering to do that..

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 07:50 AM) It goes to show you that when your big contract players collapse, the franchise goes into the tank with it. They are screwed unless they get career bouncebacks from Mauer and Morneau. So Gardenhire must be a pretty lousy manager then

Pissed off was my vote.. I give it a year and a half before everyone hates whoever the new manager is here because we are either sucking with the current cast of KW failures or we are rebuilding and still stuck with some of the cast of KW failures.. Either way, KW blows and should have been shown the door as well..

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 07:58 AM) wrestling fan I must have missed the part where that had anything to do with soccer not being a sport.. unless of course you put it on your lame blog that no one reads.. OH!