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QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:34 PM) Rodgers, I agree, was a surprise. However that's just how the draft fell that year. If Rodgers would've went #1 to SF, Smith would have fallen like Rodgers did. Quinn, on the other hand, was said to be a "2nd Round Pick" by plenty of NFL Execs leading up to the draft. I haven't heard anywhere regarding Sanchez as a 2nd Rounder. No, Miami would have taken Alex Smith if he didn't go number one. I know that for a fact, aside from the fact that I am a Dolphins fan, that was the word from Miamis camp during that draft. If Quinn was said to be a second round pick, he would have lasted till the second round. I never saw anything about that anways, but I did see plenty of talk about him being a late first rather than a top pick. Regardless, Miami should have taken him at #9 anyways but thats a non issue now. Ive also not heard anything about Sanchez being a second rounder, I never said that or hinted that either. I have however seen plenty that has him falling into the middle of the draft. With the amount of good tackles in this draft, there is going to be a run on them and some names will surely drop, I expect Sanchez to be one of those.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:29 PM) Well I think that Cutler is far more valuable than Ocho Cinco. How much do you think teams would pay for Larry Fitzgerald? You have to take into consideration that Ocho is 30 years old and had injury questions. The fact that he was worth 2 first rounders should show just how great of a deal this was for the Bears. For an extra third rounder they go from Chad Johnson to a young franchise QB who is under contract for 3 years? You have a lot of faith in Josh McDaniels and the "system". Me not so much. We will see what happens, but Belicheck didnt do so well in his first stint. Cutler is far more valuable than Ocho Cinco, and the only reason that Washington offered two firsts for him is because Daniel Snyder clearly doesn't care about draft picks. You have an owner who doesn't mind dealing draft picks and is crazy about getting the big name players and that's his best offer. The Redskins made a desperate offer to get something that they really needed and were turned down for some insane reason, im sure they could have offered more but you have to draw the line somewhere. Roy Williams was traded for a first, third, and sixth in comparison. I don't even give a s*** about Denver. However, I think Matt Cassel isn't any good and was just a product of McDaniels system so until someone goes into that system and is a complete failure there really is no reason to think its not going to work.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) Yeah....right. Yes, that is right. McDaniels already tried to deal him once and it didn't work, clearly, he has no issues with his team not having Jay Cutler at QB. Bowlen MIGHT be, however, he could have easily said "Look, he is our franchise QB and we aren't trading him" which he DID say, and then look at where we are now. If they really wanted Cutler to be their QB, he would be.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:25 PM) To the Bears? Cutler is... Oh really? The Bears traded two firsts and two seconds for Jay Cutler?

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:24 PM) Yeah I never said I liked Sanchez, either. I'd much rather see more than just 16 starts, which is all he's had. However QBs are always way overvalued in drafts and Sanchez has wowed people in workouts lately. I'll call the 49ers to grab him at 10 if he's there. Brady Quinn? Aaron Rodgers? You would be hard pressed to see ANYONES mock having either of them fall into the 20's in their draft years.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:21 PM) So as I said...Denver got the better of nothing. It isn't even because I'm a Bears fan or anything...trading Cutler was a very horrible thing for Denver. Ide actually say keeping Cutler and dealing with the issues that would surely come from it would have been more horrible for Denver. The guy wouldn't even talk to anyone, so yes they lose a young talented QB. I don't think Josh McDaniels or Pat Bowlen are sweating losing Cutler, clearly McDaniels isn't since he already tried to get rid of him once anyways.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:18 PM) I think teams would trade 2 firsts and 2 seconds for a young franchise qb who they feel could lead their team for 7+ years. If the Redskins had the bullets (more draft picks) its likely that they would have offered more than the Bears. Do you think Cutler today is worth more than Eli Manning was coming out of college? Because the Giants gave up a top 5 pick along with another 1st and a third, the top 5 pick on some draft value charts is worth 2x more than the Bears pick. Thats only because its what trading up in the draft dictates. If the Colts decided to trade Peyton Manning, teams wouldn't bust out their draft pick value charts to figure it out. The starting point is always going to be a first and a third. The Redskins were desperate as hell for a WR last season and they offered two first round picks for Chad Ocho Cinco, well how come they didn't just offer two firsts, a second, and a third? Because NO ONE is worth that. There isn't a single player in the NFL right now that is worth two firsts and two seconds.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:17 PM) Sanchez was not that great of a college quarterback to be a sure thing and to be anyone's "guy". I do not trust USC quarterbacks as they have more weapons than any other college team. Exactly, why I think he will be around mid draft. Doesn't mean that's who Denver wants, regardless, they can now get who they want with what they have set themselves up with. And they have Orton now, which is better than being stuck with nothing. Denver isn't going to be as bad as a lot of you think if they fill out that defense in this draft, especially with what you have seen New Englands offensive system do.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:11 PM) So I guess the Sox made a great deal by trading Swisher for scraps because they didn't want him. Same thing with the Rangers trading A-Rod to the Yankees before the 2004 season. yeah because Denver clearly traded Cutler for scraps.. you guys really need better examples

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:10 PM) You just made a mistake by saying Denver easily won the trade... they went from being the favorites or contenders to win their division to a probable 4 or 5 win season next year. Denver didn't win anything. They didn't even win their division last year, why are they now the favorites with the same team as is? They signed up a bunch of castoffs to help the defense, but haven't made anything major to improve their team. Denver wins because they have the assets to set their team up for a long time. Just because I think Denver won this trade, that doesn't mean im trying to say the Bears got hosed or something. The Bears now have a great QB, congratulations.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:07 PM) I hate to derail the thread, but with Sanchez's recent pro day workouts...he won't fall anywhere near 12th. If he somehow fell to #11 (he won't) every team behind Denver will try to trade up because Denver's current starting QB is neckbeard. Well I disagree, considering there is a possibility that Detroit doesn't take Stafford at #1 and the teams in front of Denver, and the fact that Sanchez doesn't have a lot of college experience in terms of playing time I could easily see Sanchez lasting till 12 and maybe even 18 for that matter.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 09:03 PM) So if the Bears didnt want Forte and traded him for a 5th rounder the Bears "win the trade easily" just because they didnt want him? McDaniels screwed up, if he doesnt mess around there is no way Cutler is traded for anything less than 2 firsts and 2 seconds. Well Denver didn't trade Cutler for a 5th round pick, so your example doesn't really translate to what happened. And you are out of your mind if you think any team would trade two firsts and two seconds for ANYONE in this league.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:59 PM) The Broncos got less then market value. McDaniels youth and inexperience cost the Broncos when he tried to trade for Cassel and it fell through. He is a 31 year old coach, he has no NFL experience, as soon as he started a rift with Cutler there was no way that they could work together. McDaniels has nothing he can hang his hat on, and he may become the greatest NFL coach, but right now he cost his team. Its fine if you want to bring in your own guys, but you cant alienate arguably the best player on your team unless you are 100% sure they are gone. The Broncos may draft 3 Pro-Bowl players, but right now its hard to say how the Bears overpaid. I never said the Bears overpaid, and I also don't understand how you think the Broncos didn't get market value. They got more than what a franchise tag would cost. Two firsts, a third, and a QB who is more than capable of being decent for them especially in the New England system that made Matt Cassel look like a beast. Denver made out very well in this deal when you consider they didn't go from Cutler to nothing, they went from Cutler to Orton while also acquiring two first round picks and a third rounder. I thought they got excellent value for someone who wasn't their guy anyways.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:57 PM) They'll have to trade up to get Sanchez...which they could do with all of their draft picks. Regardless...would you rather have Sanchez, McCoy or Bradford over Cutler? I believe we would be hard pressed to find an NFL Exec who would. Denver was in much MUCH better shape before they inquired to deal for Cassell. McDaniels tenure (which I believe will be short) will always be regarded as a salvaged one. Denver picks 12th and 18th, they wont have to trade up to get Sanchez. And yes, there would be no reason to pick one of Sanchez, McCoy, or Bradford over Cutler... unless, Cutler isn't the guy you want, which is what happened in Denver. It doesn't matter if Orton is their man now or they go with the draft, Denver has set themselves up very nicely for the future with this deal. And while its a great deal for the Bears because you need that stud signal caller, I just think Denver is in a better position for their entire team for the future. The Bears defense is nothing like it use to be, they still need a WR, they still have issues with the offensive line.. and now they don't have a 1st/3rd this year and a 1st next year. Thats why I think Denver wins this, because the Bears still have a lot of holes to fill and lost some crucial draft picks. They needed to do this though, and hopefully in the long run its going to pay off because Cutler is a hell of a talent.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:53 PM) How can you say Denver "easily won this deal" when the Bears paid less for Cutler than the Giants did for a rookie Eli? They only got two firsts and a third. Compare how much the Cowboys received for Herschel Walker. 3 firsts, 3 seconds, 1 third. Denver should have gotten more. because Denver Did not want Cutler. They are changing the defense to a 3-4 and McDaniels wants his own guy running the team. They have four first over the next two drafts and an extra third this year for a guy who they didn't want anyways. They are going to be able to set their team up for a real long time over the next two years, once again, all for a guy who they didn't even want. How can you say Denver should have gotten more? What more could they get? Another first? Change the third to a second? No one is going to pay that price. They had to move Cutler, there was no choice in the matter anymore.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:50 PM) Those QB's could all turn into Joey Harrington or Ryan Leaf as easily as they could turn into Jay Cutler. I'll take Jay Cutler over all of them. Obviously, you can say that for ANY player drafted. Calvin Johnson could have been Charles Rogers. Point is, Cutler wasn't the guy they wanted in Denver and now they can get the guy they want and then some if that's what they want to do.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) but Orton could very well be the starting QB for the next 5 years in Denver with them building there team around defense and using those picks to upgrade the defense as well as continue to rebuild the oline and get in a RB. I wouldn't go that far, clearly McDaniels still wants to get his guy in there. I doubt that its Orton. I wouldn't be shocked if they tried to flip one of those firsts to get Cassel. Not sure if that's something KC would entertain, but I bet they at least try it. Either way, Orton should work fine for them in the mean time while McDaniels gets the guy he wants to be his QB.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:45 PM) Never, there was absolutely no market for a player of this caliber at this point in his career being on the market. The only other example I can think of is when Clinton Portis (a rb) was dealt in his prime from the Broncos and the RedSkins paid a very hefty price for him. Bottom line, the Bears got a guy that they can build around not just now, but for the next ten years and I'm f***ing stoked. Say we draft Sanchez, we got to give him money and use our 1st round pick (and probably have to deal up) and still have no idea, we are basically giving up another 1st for certainty and who the hell cares about the 3rd. Yeah and even then Denver traded him because they made any RB look like a stud with their system.. that wasn't a hard choice for them at all. I wouldn't say who cares about a third, the second and third rounds are excellent draft territory especially for those talents that have fallen. For what the Bears have done though, I would feel the same. You move that third if it gives you a young, pro bowl QB which was desperately needed.

QUOTE (rockren @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) Franchise QBs don't grow on trees...there isn't a fan base more familiar with this saying than Chicago. When is the last time a team traded a 25 year-old Pro Bowl QB coming off of a 4500 yard season? McDaniels is pretty full of himself if he thinks he needs a QB more suitable to fit what he's trying to do...After Denver goes 4-12 this year, McDaniels may be looking for a new job. Yeah you're right they don't, and like I said the Bears needed this.. but Denver could easily draft Mark Sanchez this year or wait till next year and if they do suck this year could get a Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford anyways. Either way, Denver isn't in a bad position at all. Denver has to trade him because they pissed him off and he clearly wasn't going to cooperate with them, its not like they just decided hey lets trade Jay Cutler without anything behind it, I still see what you are saying though. I don't think it was more that he wanted a QB to fit what hes doing aside from he just wanted his guy, that didn't happen and that's why Cutler was traded. I would hardly say Denver is in a bad position here regardless of how this season goes for them. If they want a QB, they can get one and have set themselves up pretty good for the future. And once again, not a bad deal for the Bears at all I just feel Denver wins it easily. Its a win win, with one of the wins being just a little more than the other.

Denver easily won this deal, I don't know how you can argue that.. And before the Bears fans get their panties in a wad, Cutler is awesome and it was a deal the Bears had to do seeing as they haven't had a good QB in ages.. They paid a hefty price, and im not saying it was a bad deal for them but Denver is going to make out better in the long run from it. Denver now has four first round picks over the next two drafts and an extra third this year for a guy they obviously didn't want anyways. They have plenty of ammo now to restock their team with high end talent, while the Bears still need another WR. And once again, its great for the Bears they needed Cutler.. but Denver got an excellent package for him

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:13 PM) McDaniels must be pissed. He had Cutler, tried to trade for Cassell, now he has Orton because he tried to trade for Cassell. LOL Yeah, four first round picks over the next two drafts must really be eating at him! s***, they can just take Mark Sanchez now if they really want to or wait till next year.. either way, trading Cutler has pretty much given them plenty to build their team off of.. Orton is meh, but at least he can fill in until they get their guy..

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Mar 28, 2009 -> 04:46 PM) This would explain the Ide comment in the ShamWow thread. Haha yeah it does explain it... but seriously though, I still would

so i was tryin to pee in a bottle on the wqy home and i peed on mtyself, not quite peed in my pants but i did pee on my pants because of overflow

Ide pay to f*** that prostitute

Guys, how can this not be a surprise? I heard they were talking about adding a new rule next season that Tom Brady isn't allowed to be sacked period.. you cant touch him at all. There were also rumors about the Patriots getting 16 home games, take it for what its worth. GMAFB first the tuck rule, then the defensive back contact rule, and now this rule? Could the NFL love Tom Brady and the Patriots any more openly than they already do?