Chombi

Some of the deals I have seen for Bedard are shocking. The Reds, Cardinals and Mariners both seem to have made some good offers. Three quality players on each front. If the Cards offered up Rasmus as I heard they were willing to today, I can't see how you reject it. I don't understand how a deal like this wasn't available for MB. Bedard has a higher ceiling simply on his k rate it appears but MB justs gets the job done. He does it while being in a notorious hitters park in the AL. I just struggle to understand these things sometimes. It just bothers me. I see teams like Boston refuse to give up more then one of Lester, Buchholz, and Ellsbury. Two of the 3 I see as overrated ballplayers. Meanwhile, a team like the Reds is willing to part with some extremely talented guys in the same deal. Cuetto, Votto, Bailey, Stubbs, Mesoraco, Frasier, etc. No Bruce, but some of those names are big time (Bailey is still a top notch guy though I think stock has fallen a lot). To me that is just a ton of talent for a guy like Bedard. Who is right do you think? A team like Boston, or a team like the Reds. Why can't we swing a deal like this? Is Bedard really that much better/more appealing then a MB, JV, or Bobby Jenks....Even offensively, a guy like Kong.

That is true but I was reading an article on Foxsports today (forget which one at the moment) but it was talking about how are field has been the most homer prone in recent history. I think it was in regards to a Juan Pierre move or something, I forget what though right now. Just blanking. Either way, I sometimes do forget how much of an offensive park we have. Mix it with the AL, in particular AL central and guys like Garland and Buehrle take me back to the underrated conversations I used to have with friends. I fail to understand why more stock never goes into that when teams are looking at our arms. Garland to me fetched enough. I would've prefered the value in prospects, but assuming arb. is offered next offseason and rejected, the two picks we are looking at potentially for an A type player like Cabrera is better then the 1 we would've got for Garland.

It's hard to imagine that they'd accept it. Maybin is much younger then Fields and has a lot more talent/upside. Owens is not close. It is tough to gauge a trade value when you're dealing prospect for prospect. Someone like Maybin I don't think I am sold on. If we were to deal for an OF prospect, he'd be on the short list but I'd much rather attack a Rasmus or Bruce. They've got a much sweeter stroke, may not be the freak athlete but they are great looking baseball players. Baseball prospects baffle me. I have seen Cueto, Votto, and Bailey being offer for Bedard. That to me is an insane package and I am not quite sure why the Twins wouldn't be calling to do that for Johan. Maybe the Reds don't think they can afford Johan. Something like that happens but I can't see why that deal wasn't on the Marlins radar. It's just a strange strange business. That is why a deal like Fields/Owens wouldn't surprise me but it wouldn't ever really happen IMHO. If it was legit? I'd do it but it's still risky. Assuming Crede was re-signed, I'd take the chance and add a 5-star talent in CF that'd be a nice addition for years. It's just swapping the hole from CF to 3rd base. Crede at 3rd healthy is a better option then Sweeney, Rowand (b/c of money), Owens, Anderson in CF. The thing is we shouldn't deal prospects unless we are trying to land a star. Someone mentioned it above that it seems that we want to deal for anyone in the top 10. IDK if I'd say that's the truth. I've been vocal about dealing for prospects. The plan would be to deal vet's for the prospects and keep our guys. Some teams may have a desire for someone on our team and they may only have pitching prospects or a 3rd base, whatever. In that case, you deal a prospect when their is a surplus on your farm (our pitching right now). Otherwise, I don't see the point in dealing prospect for prospect unless it is something liek this.

I must say you are a favorite poster of mine sir. I hate BA though. I thought the McCarthy thing where he was saying things about the Sox and what Anderson said or did spelled the end for BA here. That and that Ozzie didn';t want him on the team anymore or something. Idk. I'd wish this story was about Sweeney. Something about that swing just leaves your jaw wide open. Hopefully this rubs off.

I didn't want to respond to this thread right now but I had to agree with you once after all the fun battling in other threads. I do not want Rowand at all. He will hurt us down the road more then help. Whether peolpe want to do a firesale now or not, if this team fails again and we dont make moves out the gate we need tradeable contracts and guys in the offseason. A regular Rowand season will not help us when we go to trade him. He isn't someone to build youth around either really so it is a dangerous move. I don't want Pierre and his One tool of 5 either. He has speed. Not much else. It should be out of the question. If we could get him for Contreras, maybe I'd consider it and hope for the best but that is just the lesser of two evils and I don't who is worse at this point.

I had already started typing the message and it was on a new page. Sorry bout that. Either way, it happened.

That's correct. You didn't. Dbaho did. You just questioned it. So fair enough. You said teams have figured Dontrelle out and yet lefties still don't hit him. I don't get why you made it green. Is it funny that you clearly didn't watch him pitch and certainly not everyone has figured him out? Or was it just that righties hit him well with his stuff being worse? And his stuff hasn't declined every year seeing as he had his best season right smack in the middle. Again, check the facts. In fact 04 and 06 were very similar and neither were very bad. Actually pretty decent. Which leaves us at that one bad season again. That season that you didn't really watch, and didn't really know anything about. I am glad you are keeping my mind this fresh at such an hour but I will be heading to bed soon. I am done arguing this. You have no intension of getting anywhere and admitting you're wrong. You're trying to weasal your way into other things and getting embarressed in that aspect as well. I will say it again, all I said was Javy and Dtrain are both questionmarks. Dtrain is more of one because he needs to regain his stuff. Javy just needs to prove he can put back to back successful seasons together again and do it for a team that we'd hope contends. That is all I am saying. If you don't think Javy is a question mark and are that confident then I am proud of you. For me, someone who watches baseball. I'd like to see him repeat his 07' and not fall back into the Javy we have seen since 04. And I'd also like to see Willis continue to struggle before I say 07' is the absolute.

Actually, optimistic is how Cub fans act. That is probably why every year is "their year". Realists are Sox fans. Which is why many of them refuse to show up without a winning product they can believe in. Again, I am fairly certain with each post you make that you have Zero clue about baseball and anything to do with it. I don't know any cub fans who would sit back and acknowledge their team was as bad as our is right now if they were in our position. Also, you can go for it all but you need to make the moves soon and really make some good ones. I don't rule it out. I just want to do one or the other. Either go all-in or fold. Not sit where we are and finish 4th again. Maybe last while still spending 100 mil. Heck, I dont want to finish 3rd with our payroll and talent. And yes, you do deal MB or Dye if it's the right move. IE it improves your team for your desired timetable. You can't let ego of re-signing them and a failed plan stop you from making the smart move. Admit things didn't work out and go to a new plan.

Well I am not disappointed year round. See, expecting this team to be bad has only really happened this season. These are the lowest expectations I've had since I can remember. So when we win, I will be happy and shocked. Prior to this, even last year I thought we'd compete. I had a feeling that maybe we should start the firesale last season because I truly thought it'd be smart to deal MB for a lot if he pitched well. I also thought JD could bring us some nice things. Once I decided I wanted them gone, I figured why not deal everyone. My slogan was "The kids can play...and Uncle Paulie". Cheesy, Lame, etc...but it is the truth. I am bugging you guys now and we are all not thrilled with our position, imagine what I did to my roommate last season when we both thought we had a chance. So if I am way overaggressive with the firesale thing it is because I have been looking at it for a year now. And like I said, it's really only baseball and football I get intense like this. I think it's from those glory years of playing them. I just get real intense. Maybe it's that I am looking at a job in the industry and think that being a Maverick is how you need to approach things. IDK, but those are my cards I play when it comes to baseball. Otherwise, I have a pretty easy life and a great one that I am thankful for so there is no real disappointment year round. Maybe that My Ma didn't pick up any Creme Soda or that my Nona didn't make meatballs. Thats really it.... Actually, this snow is a disappointment. Especially when there is no salt on the road and you almost spin out like 10 times trying to drive back to Inverness from Medinah on a moderately busy road like Roselle. Even by 90 it was a mess. That is disappointing sir.

I don't argue that Dontrelle uses his motion and delivery to throw people off. I also don't argue that Javy has incredible stuff. What I do argue is facts. Factually speaking, Dontrelle still performed very well in this league the last few years prior to 07'. Javy on the other hand, did not. He has a good season here and a good one there. Thats it. But using your logic, we should write Willis off because you watched him pitch 10 times and noticed his stuff was way down...Way down and off but it had more to do with teams figuring him out. Wait, teams made up of just solely right handed hitters. Cuz you saw that lefties figured him out right??? Just wanted to make sure we agreed that a .130 ba or whatever was figuring out a pitcher. O and we should give Javy the Cy Young because you've never seen him pitch and his one good season in his last few. That's accurate right? It's not like Javy has a track record for pitching very well for bad teams right? It has nothing to do with that I am sure. Mind you, all I said was I want Javy to repeat his season for me to believe it was legit. I also said I just want to see if Dontrelle has his velocity back because that could show that maybe he was just hurt or had mechanics problems. That is all. I just don't want to write the guy off as a bum, and I don't want to get my hopes up for Javy like i did for Jose last season. Instead you tried to prove some weird points and just not let it go that facts are what matters, and factually, you have no clue what you are talking about.

I don't recall I said to trade OC for less because unless we can get 2 good prospects for him, why? We can just let him go and take the picks but at the same time...He may have to. Which is further proof he is a moron for doing the deal so early (and after he signed a SS) and that we allow ego to get in the way. It may be a bad deal and we may get less, but let's keep him because we don't want anyone to know we messed up. That's your logic??? I don't think Johan will be around. I didnt think he would be there now. I made posts days ago saying that what they get for him may be better. I'd bet if they make the smart move with NYY and Hughes pitches well that Liriano + Hughes + Cabrera + Young gets them more win shares then Garza + Johan. You honestly think Linebrink is going to be a factor? Linebrink could very well do his job and pitch well when it;s handed to him but I really doubt it. And 10 wins is a bit much. Yea Mb and Javy can possibly be a good 1-2 punch, which is great but we will need to score for them and we may get KO'd with our 3-4-5. Contreras is a big if. Danks is still so young that we shouldn't rely or put that kind of pressure on him. Floyd had a good september but needs a lot of work still. What I'd love is for us to realize now...while teams are still trying to improve so much that they will surrender more. I'd love to Send Paulie away for a few good prospects. I'd love to move Dye for one good prospect. Same with someone like Jenks who I think could haul in a lot for us. If we were able to acquire 6-7 mlb ready players to go along with the ones we already have...It'd be huge for us. We will still have the same "what if" shot we are relying on right now and we will also free up money, prepare ourselves for the future and also possibly deal some of our prospects for other talent to help in different areas. Thats what I'd want. Man, you are making me work tonight.

Ok. You're deliberately just trying to piss me off right? I didn't bring up the 2nd half of 06'. You did. I responded to it. You said Javy starting pitching very well in 06', not me. I said he improved but didn't really have mind blowing numbers or numbers near 07'. So because the guy had 2 pitches, it means he can lose 8 mph on his fastball? Lose break on his offspeed? That makes no sense. And ask the lefties about how to hit Dontrelle since he has been figured out. Or ask anyteam in baseball prior to 07'. Lets see. Decrease in velocity. No bite on pitches means that hitters have figured him out. Interesting. Even though you admit those first two occured. It was moreso just teams figuring him out. You're right. It's totally crazy. Dontrelle can regain his ability but he will continue his struggles. Meanwhile Javy potentially stumbled upon his ability finally meeting the numbers to go with it and we should crown him. Well, if you have Denny Green's number then get him on the phone. Like I said a million times now. Dontrelle has a more proven track record the last few seasons. Javy does not. Javy can easily pull a Contreras on us (which you convenietly avoided in your post) next season and all I am saying is to wait and see how he does. I hope Willis bombs. I just won't mark it down until I see it happen. Same with Javy. I've gotten my hopes up for a lot of guys on this team before and it is usually followed with a letdown. You questioned whether I watched Willis pitch. I am starting to question if you have ever watched baseball.

I really am not. I thought I was going to jump out the window too. I really am starting to think that Sudafed has something that just makes you angry in it. I've been sick for about a week and have been just stressin. When the season rolls around. I will be rooting for the Sox and never won't. Don't mistake opinions for feelings. It'd be ignorant and foolish. I just think there are smarter moves and I am a realist. Pessimism comes with that territory because when you pay attention to the facts (4th place finish last season) and that the team hasn't improved all that much...It's a safe bet we aren't going to improve. They're called odds and they aren't in our favor. You're an optimist apparently and get turned off by what you see as complaining and ranting. That may sound worse but doesn't really bother me. I'll be accurate and happy. You will pretend you're happy while avoiding the truth and get let down many times in your life but good for you cuz you stayed positive and fake during it all. but you'll keep that 1% as your motivation until your next let down. I'll continue to be take my 99% accuracy rate because when it happens. I am happy that I am right. It's an ego thing...It sucks though that it comes at the expense of the teams I root for. The pessimism is really only with sports. I just expect the worst and hope for the best with certain things. It's win-win. Thats where the compaining comes from. IDK but I have a pet peeve for common sense. To me, this thing is common sense. We lack it. Even people who don't think we should sell off parts don't think we stand a chance. It's weird. You're 99-1% deal for instance. Someone else said in another thread we are at best the third best team in our division...all of these things but you still want to run out there and lose. I don't get it??? Aren't you just asking to be let down and disappointed? Why not improve? Why not build? Why not be ready to take the crown when it's open for the taking? Not when it's all but given out already. It's poker and we can see their hand pre-flop. They've got rockets and we have a Jack and a 3. The Jack is tempting to play on our part but we know we are way behind and the odds are real bad. Sure the flop can be Jack Jack Three but that isn't something you'd risk 100 million on? Is it? I've gone in on season tickets every year and I use my own money for them. Which for a 21 year old with no real job the last few years but school and making the grades...is kind of a big deal to me. I miss several of the games but still hit up about 20 games and enjoy it more then anything. It doesn't mean I can't point out the faults in our front office and with our team...or ask people who claim this team is a contender why they think so knowing full well they're not. The Tigers made some pretty nice additions for 06' buddy. We haven't. The cardinals were in the world series in 04' if you remember correctly and in 05' just missed out again. They won in 06' with the record low in wins in the worst division in baseball...what the f*** does that have to do with a bad team in 08' in the best division in baseball??? That they got lucky to be in and got hot at the right time? Try to get hot and lucky for a whole season in the AL Central. Take your 1% and call me in 100 years when it still hasn't worked out. Your story was heartwarming and pretty cool. Reminds me of the Rosemont Horizon and getting Bret Hart's glasses but thats not here nor there. If you have a problem with my ability to have both opinions and feelings. I am sorry. If you don't like the realism and want to fill up the board with hopes and aspirations that is your right. No logic or factual reasoning to support it is necessary I guess so be my guest. When the season rolls around, I will join you in your cheering and be pumped with you but we will divide following the games until a major change occurs. Whether it's all-in with this team or we fold and cut out losses. Sorry for scaring you. I know you are truly concerned.

Again. There is something you are not comprehending or I am not stressing enough. I am not sure what it is. I am not saying we compare them. I am saying compare their situations. Regardless of how great Javy has looked, he needs to prove it again. Contreras dominated and never looked better in the 2nd half of 05-1st half of 06'. Everyone was talking about how unhittable he was and everything else. How'd that pan out this year??? So again. I am not comparing the two players. I am comparing their situations. One had a brilliant year and hopefully has moved his game to the level his talent suggests. Which as you pointed out is Ace material. Willis on the other hand showed Ace material a lot throughout his early career and has stumbled a couple times. Last year wass the worse and as you've said...his stuff was bad.

Bulls***. In 2006? I don't have ur qoute in front of me right now but I am fairly certain you had said he was pitching better in the 2nd half of 06'. That is what that comment was towards. And no I didn't see many of Willis games. Maybe 10. Like I said, his stuff was bad. I've mentioned it in numerous threads. Nothing had bite and he had no "out pitch" It's hard to just up and lose stuff though. Usually there is something behind it. It's rare someone just wakes up after several years of success and in their mid 20's to just having nothing. Usually it's mechanics or an injury. Rare his god given ability just stops.

ok. I say we should rebuild now. Start checking my head but I am pretty sure logic is not a symptom that can be treated. My reason why...you answered it yourself. "We are AT BEST the 3rd best team heading into 08'" And last I checked the Twins still have Johan. So outside of Hunter, Garza, Bartlett and Silva being gone. 2 of those I will say are minor because they didn't give contribution that was season changing. They added one of the premier young players in baseball. How quickly we all forgot that he was the no.1 prospect and a no.1 pick. The guy is going to kill us. For whatever reason it is seemingly overlooked. I feel as though I am the only one scared of this guy. They are also adding Liriano. Pretty solid. The Twins even if they deal Johan will not be "As bad as everyone on here thinks they will". Why do we only apply these theories to ourselves and never everyone? I see it all the time when people project these great things out of Fields, Danks, Richar, Quentin, and Owens...but then they say guys like Bonderman, Verlander, Willis, etc...will all underperform. It's just weird to me that we view our teams players as the center of the universe. Idk, just strange to me. And yea...maybe we aren't as bad as people think...but maybe we are worse. It's a two way street and it won't be decided until the games are played...but at this point, I can't see us finishing 3rd. We didn't improve, and barely escaped finishing last in 07'. Royals actually did improve and have legit threats to break out in Gordon, Butler, Grienke, etc...But again back to that theory of how only White Sox guys will improve. Idk about you...but for a team who has problems going past a certain limit with spending and all that kind of stuff....Why spend the 100 mil when we know we aren't going to win? Why spend the next 3 seasons wasting money, time, and value of veterans just to finish 3rd in the division? Instead, we can save money and hope they use it when it's time to really compete. We can use this time to develop the players we have now, and the ones that we trade those veterans with value for. That is why I think we should do it. If using common sense and understanding your own ideas means getting your head checked...sign me up.

Money Mayweather.."lifestyle...Flashy". He cracks me up and his talent is unmatched in the sport. He has embarressed some great fighters and Hatton just hasn't. I've been hoping Hatton would fight some big matches here the last few years but nothing. I'd assume if Hatton wins there is a rematch clause. i can see him winning. Something like Tarver-Jones 1, with like one punch that just ends it. If Mayweather wins though I have heard chat of a De La Hoya rematch for a big payday before he retires. I saw the 24/7 thing and the way the doctor/mayweather were working with his hands and body just makes me realize how battered he is. I would like to see him fight Cotto. Or even Hatton fight Cotto. Miguel didn't look impressive last time out but he pulled it off. A Hatton-Cotto fight would be a war.

I didn't say I would take Willis over Javy. I said he is in a similar, but reversed situation. But seriously, forget the ballpark. It is a case of one bad season for Dontrelle, regardless of ballpark, to one good season for Javy. That's all I am saying. Both still have question marks coming into this season....And one other thing I never hear mentioned...Our hitter's all claim they couldn't hit because of the weather...Do you factor that into your Javy domination? Just something to think about when you hear that kind of talk about our hitters, cuz it was bs. Javy did look better but not much. I still want to say he had like a 4.8 era in the 2nd half. I remember looking at his numbers and being surprised a little how high his era was... He did well and people were skeptical still. He needs this season and if he performs well again I think it will be hard to doubt him. Same with D-train. If he is buzzin fastball at 85 mph again, then I'd say there is something to worry about. But his splits show he can be effective vs lefties so he just needs to figure out righties...If he bombs again, maybe you move him in the pen for a specialist role. Otherwise...I agree with you. Rogers will be around 4.5 in my book. Without that crisco, lil jalepeno to get the nose runnin, or vasoline...he may be done. Robertson is nothing special but a 4.5 out of your backend of the rotation is pretty decent for the AL. You didn't mention Verlander but I expect both he and Bonderman to perform well.

I think it's more like one month. I believe he came up in July. I'd have to double check but not right now. I am fairly certain he got bombed in july and bombed in August. September was whe nhe pitched well I just think he was like 0-4 or something so it tends to be overlooked.

Fair enough. If we are going to pick at Detroit's staff and really not let go of it...I can't argue it anymore. What I can argue is that if Sox fans think that Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman and Willis are that bad...What do they think of our guys outside of MB and JV? I'd say Javy is as much cause for concern as D-train. The only difference is they flipped their roles. One finally had a good season again after it took him years. The other had a bad season after dominating in 05 and pitching well in 06. More importantly, if we look at potential. Since in other threads I have to hear about how our guys have soo much potential to do well this year, why is it not applied to other teams? Why can't Sizemore step up and become the MVP he is supposed to be? Why can't Mauer finally stay healthy and hit .400 like they claim he will? Why won't the Royals break out with all sorts of their guys? How bout these same Tigers? Why won't Bonderman finish a season? He looked damn good the first half. But he sucks right, i forgot? Or Verlander? Guy still was only in his 2nd season and put together a pretty decent one. But he sucks too right? He won't get better. It's not like he is MB and JV who have already hit their ceilings, this guy is nothing. Who cares. He won't step up, but Josh Fields will. Rogers will be solid. It's what he does. Willis had that bad year. Everyone says he is done so let's write him off. Better yet, why don't we just compare him to Jose. The same Jose everyone expects to bounce back. Even though he showed similar problems with velocity/stuff/etc. He isn't in his mid 20's though so clearly he will bounce back. Especially with Willis now being a 4 or 5 starter. Robertson is a decent 4 or 5 guy. Nothing special. The Tigers staff isn't great but it wasn't much different last year. Or two years ago. If anything they're better cuz Bonderman and Verlander are maturing. Even Robertson is a crafty vet now....O yea and even if all of them put up a 4.5 team era, guess what??? They'll still win the division because they almost did last year and have more offense this season.

I think Kenny has flipped his marbles though. We got Floyd for essentially nothing. The big player in the deal for us was Gio. Floyd is my boy. I've stuck with his beatings and I get texts from friends when he pitches as to whether I am on or off "The Floyd Express". I am not a pitching coach but I played baseball for my whole life and understand it a little. To me Floyd is an easy fix but with no one making it, maybe I am wrong. A key thing when you're pitching is hiding the baseball. He doesn't do it. He sticks it straight out and holds it for the hitter to lock onto. If they can just fix that, his stuff is good. Not to mention he may pick up a few mph on that fastball again because hiding the ball will most likely force him to use the full windmill throwing motion as opposed to the Keith Foulke-no arm rotation. "Ball into your back pocket and push off the rubber" were the big things I was always told. Floyd hardly does either anymore and if I had him under my control that is where I would start. I can't figure out what team would want him in their rotation though? Maybe Kw just thinks that because several teams have offered him bat boy's in exchange for Floyd and Kenny thinks they are serious offers. Danks I can see because he is so young and left-handed. He really needs to step up though because I can't see what value this guy has with another season like lasts.

I probably couldn't hit it but I bet i'd tip one. ha. And so I guess you're agreeing that the only way Hill is a "poor man's Danks" is age? Cuz last time potential mattered when we are discussing performance was idk...never? Hill next season will again far better then Danks. I don't think Hill has topped out yet but I do think he is close. Danks has a higher ceiling but he got bombed last year. Point to his age, fine...But why was he up then? Clearly he wasn't ready IMO and it should be noted. Meanwhile, Hill spent a good portion of the first half of the season with a sub 3 era. So like I said, we can hate on the Cubs and what have you but the guy performed and Danks didn't. Can Danks be better. Yes. Is Hill a "poor man's" version of him? Are you kidding? Hill is a poor man's MB maybe but not Danks/ Open market Danks is worth more simply because of his age. People are hoping he can hit that ceiling we speak of but I wouldn't get my hopes all the way up on that for at least 2 more years.

That whole thing is silly. Be optimistic all you want. If you have a problem with people who live in reality, change the channel. True you can't win a WS now, but you sure a f*** can lose them. That stupid half-glass empty or full mentality is fine. Your qoute applies to the first months of the season too, but lots of teams lose their chance early. Not win, but certainly lose a division in April/May/December...etc. It's just a dumb thing. 05' I am so sick of hearing about. It's amazing people like you claim to be so optimistic about how this team can be good, but then you contradict your own theory and claim that the 05' team looked awful. It's total manipulation on your part to try and act as though we aren't in a world of trouble. I've already dabbled in other sections about the 05' team and quite frankly, I am sick of it. But for you, I'll gladly give you an overview. 2004. Maggs played 50 games. Frank was hurt. We had Jason Grilli, Felix Diaz, Scott Schoenweis in our rotation....It was upgraded with Freddy. Contreras was an upgrade over our 5th starter that we didnt have if you remember correctly. We signed El Duque who everyone knew would have healthy issues but if he could hold over, it would've been huge. A healthy Dye was better then the injured Maggs and yea we lost Carlos Lee and his big bat but we replaced it with speed and somewhat better defender and BULLPEN ARM THAT HELPED US ALL SEASON. And save the Hermanson comment. Did you become a Sox fan in 06? Do you not recall that Billy Koch was our closer the previous year? Do you remember how bad he was for us? Hermanson sorry to say it was an upgrade. I can't say I thought this team was a lock to win it. I'd be lying, I hoped theyd win but didnt expect it. I did expect them to be much closer in a division that they FINISHED IN SECOND PLACE IN THE YEAR PRIOR. wITH ALL THOSE PROBLEMS, THEY STILL FINISHED 2ND. HOW WERE THOSE DEALS NOT UPGRADES????!?!?! So I state the question again and ask you whether you were even a Sox fan before 05 because clearly you have no clue what you're talking about. Yes I am sure someone will point out experts picked us to come in 4th. Some, like Rob Neyer picked us to win. Most of the others had no idea what to expect of us because of all the moves we made. They aren't fans. Most fans see moves as positive or negative. Yea the Lee thing scared me a little but I was excited to have a guy who would steal us 70+ bases. I remember hearing his avg was low in Milwaukee the previous year because they wanted him to be more of a deep threat, so I attributed that to his low avg and OBP. We didn't need Pods to do that and I expected the steals to be crossed with his 04' OBP/Avg. And 06' we hardly looked better on paper. We had to worry about Thome's health. We lost Rowand and we had the concern as to if everyone could repeat the same crazy seasons they had in 05'. All that and again we weren't picked by everyone to win it. And yea we finished 3rd. With 90 wins and several components missing from our offense...like Scott Podsednik, who was our catalyst. Next KW deserves slack. Our farm is not on the level it should be. His fault. We have made some stupid moves. His fault. His ego is not allowing him to break this up. He thinks it was so good that it can be good again. It can, but not on the same level as it was. We had fluke years out of guys. Minimal injuries. Things go our way. The division is much harder too incase you havent noticed. That may be my favorite part. People will admit this team is worse then 05 or 06'. And they'll acknowledge that the division is much better. But when they are asked to add those two things together, it's like you gave them math they've never heard of. They have trouble that both of those together doesn't make you a good team. I don't get it. So yea...I am going to keep "whining" as you put it. I will sure to hound you every day next season too. Several messages a day saying "I told you so". Thats assuming you aren't back in Wrigley by then. And why wait til after the season? So there is more negatives showing on those guys? So they're a year older? Another year closer to FA? Which of those negative lights team shine on making deals are you pushing for? maybe you'd prefer it takes an extra year to get back into contension? Instead of starting now, let's wait till we are definately out of it. Not cut out losses b4 they get worse? The Sox are Microsoft stock. It hit highs in 05 and 06. 07 it took a huge hit. Instead of selling because there are more signs of worse to come then there are positive signs...You hang on. Hits rock bottom next year and you come away with nothing. I should hire you to manage my portfolio. You're brilliant. You can tell me about how I whine since I am concerned about something that I have cared for and followed for years, while you have only been caring for them and following for 2 years.

You're on dangerous ice though. Cost is necessary for some teams but we weren't competing before. This move would've helped had we kept Garland and the other teams not improved. Now, it's meaningless because we are building a team that will compete with for 2nd. I am all for dealing prospects the right time. This isn't it. This move is exactly what people are saying "better the Miggy/Willis" which to me is illogical but hey. Willis did have that one bad season so he definately is completely useless, right? The problem here is this. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, this team won 72 games last season. We dealt one of our better arms for an unnecessary player. They player made sense if everything else went to "plan" because we would've filled that big hole in CF, acquired a big time bat and hopefully found a leadoff hitter. Well, we didn't. So now the questionable Cabrera trade gets worse until things are fixed. By adding Roberts, what was the purpose of getting Richar? Why do we think that a 2nd baseman will have so much and have him for 2 years. BTW he has NT protection for certain teams that he can pick every year. Bedard. "The great young lefty" that people fail to realize is almost 30. 29 when the season starts and we want to sacrifice the farm for that? His stuff is great but he hasn't even gone 200 innings before. Moves at this point are just being done to make them. We need to not respond and dig a deeper whole. Cuz we will. What we need to do is sell on everyone and get some great players. Let them develop, build your team around it and deal off the pieces you don't want for Veterans and sign FA's. I'd like both but at a far lesser cost then what they're saying.

I do think you're right in a sense with what you're getting at but have gone overboard. We do undervalue our prospects at times but it's no secret that other teams don't want them either. If the Cubs had offered a package of Pie, Veal, Marshall and Soto they would've landed Miggy. If we would've offered our top two hitting prospects, our top pitching prospect and Gavin Floyd. Well, we already know what happens. Pie has way more of an upside then BA ever had. Once BA showed how clueless he truly was at the dish, he lost his own value. Pie is a hell of a ballplayer. Anderson, not so much. Hense why BA is not in the majors and Pie will be. Some of those are close but the problem is...Not many people on our board I've heard say Veal is better then Gio. Veal is unorthodox. That's what he has going for him. His stuff is average and I think that is why they will make him repeat AA next season. I read somewhere they will add a Split to his arsensal or use it to replace one of his breaking balls. Unfortunately, Gallagher is better then Broadway. It's close and maybe I am wrong here. I love Broadway keep in mind. There is nothing I want more then a Sox Jersey that says Broadway on the back. My Raul Casanova jersey will attest to this. Anyways, Gallagger has great control from what I've seen of 4 of his pitches. At worst, 3 of them is what I have heard he consistently placed throughout the minors. I really can't believe you called Hill a poor man's Danks. Bit excessive trying to prove your point. Age is the only thing that makes that statement worth considering. Otherwise, there is not much else that proves it. Hill's stuff can be unhittable at times and I have yet to see a Danks pitch that I couldn't hit. I like what you're getting at but really it's not completely accurate IMO.