Chombi

It may have been a bit excessive, I'll give you that. And JD may like it here, but I wouldn't think he has a desire to be here over any other place. For starters I am fairly certain he lives in Zona. A trade to them is out of the question but neighboring places like Cali may be something that would intrigue him The main reason I made the comment was how the phone call was portrayed yesterday. "The whole JD called 2 minutes after to KW because KW had promised both of those guys to him." So that is where that came from. On top of that, the Hahn thing is more of a joke but the whispers have to start somewhere.

No Bedard is not our answer. Neither is Rowand. Bedard can't even go 200 innings. In our ballpark too, his era might be up at 4. That isn't worth the price you'll pay for him. Not to mention he is 28 and 2 years from fa? I forget how many. Rowand only solves the body in CF. A body that can be placed there after earning it in ST. We sill need a leadoff hitter and he isn't that. This I pray doesn't happen.

I'd be easier to swallow for one. Depending on what other team it was too. The division is the biggest no-no. Seeing him 19 times a year for potentially until he retires sucks. If anyone would've nabbed him in our division it would've hurt. The Tigers I think the most though because they have proven a willingness to spend, and they have put together a good team already. The Red Sox it'd suck but at least we coud still potentially make the playoffs over his tenure. The Yanks, they'd still have pitching concerns and have already had the best offense for years so that wouldn't have bothered me. Angels, same thing as the Sawx. NL wouldn't bother me at all.

I do agree with more then it. All I said was that I read the first sentence in each paragraph to get a jist of where they were going. My thoughts before I posted were that KW is basically losing his job this offseason. Which I got the vibe from his post. The not signing of Rowand I agreed with and the dealing of other players. The payroll thing he pointed out I agreed with. There was nothing wrong with his post "buttercup" and was actually on target to my own opinions. Which is why I said bingo and I gave him the bow smiley because I didnt have to type anything up for a change. So like I said. Relax.

You and Bill Hall. I just don't understand it. lol.

Easy there tiger. Just relax. I read the first sentence in each paragraph to see where it was going and I agreed with it. KW, Not signing a cf, etc. If there was something that upset you in there, I don't know what to tell ya. And the guys he wants to deal I agree will get us minimal in return. I am pro-firesale and the guys we could land for Paulie (limited NT), JD, Thome (NT), even Buerhle or Javy. I'd keep one. Preferably Mark but he has a full NT in 08' I think but may have more value. There are some others I'd love to deal, like Jenks. SO that is how the Sox would rebuild. The payroll would be down around 40 mil. Hell, I'd even sign Jones then that way you have something else to fall back on this season.

It may be a bargain for today's cf, which is why we don't get involved and overpay. Look at our best players. What do they make per season? Kong gets 12. Thome gets 13. MB gets 14. You think Rowand deserves to be in their range? Definately not. it's like the Angels have looked at business the last few years and even this year. They aren't going to overpay for players especially when they have a premier player making 14 mil. Not many people are better then Vlad, so why pay them more? Significantly more in some cases. Even Hunters contract forced renegotiations with the club and Vlad. And your mathews thing is a great point. A very good defensive player who had a monster season. Now look at him. You want to take the similar gamble on a guy who we have already had and know his abilities aren't worth the money. We of all teams should know from having this guy that he is unlikely to repeat 07'. This move does nothing for us. He is going to do what? Hit 6th or 7th? Hit his 18 homers and knock in 70. Have a sub-par OBP for an OF. Dumb dumb dumb. All the while, we will fill up more salary cap and be unable to develop a guy like Owens because of this? I am not even an avid Owens supporter but I am over a "save my ass" signing like this. If this happens. Rowand will go from folk hero to a hated player. He will under perform, possibly get hurt and have the most unmoveable contract in 3 years when we want to deal him.

bingo.

We are making this move just to make a move. It's a PR deal. Rowand is going to kill us. There is a reason the market hasn't been there for him. Teams don't want to overpay for a guy like him, especially with how reckless he plays. This will be something next season we all b**** about when there are people on the market we actually want again but can't afford. "Why can't we afford him?" cuz we just gave 14 mil a year to a bum, thats why.

What's your major for one, what sports do you like and your partying habits? Btw apply to Mizzou. Great School and campus is beautiful. The campus is what sold me. Decent and improving athletic department. Good party school and mostly everything there is brand new.

It's not this deal that makes everyone mad at kenny. It's the whole picture. He had a plan coming into the offseason. We have learned priorities one and two were Hunter and Cabrera. He got neither. Why? Losing Hunter was bad because it was an offer thing. He thought he had him which is the sad part but we weren't close. In doing so, he also dealt Garland for a SS after we had re-signed Uribe. Yea he got us a no.2 hitter but he didn't need it in the form of a SS. He needed a LF or Cf, even in the form of a 2nd baseman may have been higher priority. He also could've landed prospects if he was serious about a Cabrera deal. Now Cabrera resides in Detroit. A team who just missed the playoffs after makign it to the WS. So not only do they improve on a team by dealing guys who really didn't help them get to the seasons they've had the last two years, but the addition is in the form of a 24 year old HOF caliber player and a pitcher who really is getting overlooked because of one bad season. A very bad season but it was as an Ace for a bad team. Not the 4 or 5 starter on an World Series caliber team. He also made a potentially poor signing in Linebrink. He does not look good for us and our park. Look at the last 30+ games and you'll see the proof is right there in the pudding. O yea, and he gave Linebrink that no-no 4 year deal that this team has had a policy against for years. Now that is just this offseason. An offseason in which we are coming off a near last place finish. Needed things to be changed but all we did was get older and not fill the holes we have. We actually created a new one potentially if none of our SP's step up. Our farm is garbage. Hopefully the new squad in there will fix that but I am reluctant to assume improvement until I see more. So far, I like what they've done though. He hasn't landed a big name in FA in his tenure. His trades are bold and potentially helpful but then again sometimes he makes bad choices. IE giving up Young for Javy instead of Anderson. He just does a lot of bad with the good and we took it because we won. His stock is declining and moves are beginning to wear thin. His ego from 05 I think has stopped him from pursuing and doing what is necessary to win or what is smart, and folding his cards and moving on. Thats what needs to occur here and he isn't seeing that. As far as the Tigers are concerned. Good for them. They risked a lot for a HOF player because they know they can build that farm again. They are confident in their scouting and have proven before that they will take a stint in the dumps to get to this point. They also know they are players in FA now and willing to make big moves when necessary. It's not KW's fault that they got those guys, it's his fault the pieces weren't in place for us to land him.

Rowand is overrated. Especially in this city because we love him. Last year was his career year. It was better then I believe 03 or 04'. One of those he hit like 24 homers and I thought he was breaking out but then he came down to earth the next year. It's no mystery that plenty guys have career years in contract years. It's a bad theory but it does have some substance to it. HeIt'll be tough and I doubt he'll come close to it again. He should settle in around a statline of .270 .340 obp clip 18 hrs 75 knocked in...Is that what you want to pay for? Is that going to save this team and make them challenge the Tigers offensively? Basically we are going backwards. He was here before and it was great. Bringing him in as our marquee move hardly makes us contenders. Actually, without other moves...It doesn't. Potent lineup on paper? I can't see why his bat would make this team that much better? He doesn't do enough. I'd much rather play a cheaper Owens in cf and see how it goes. If it doesn't work, there'll be new guys next year available who will prolly be just as overrated we can sign. Rowand will cost us 4-5 years and 50-75 mil lets say which is about 11-14.5 more then Owens or Sweeney. In four years, when this team has finished last 2 times and 3rd or fourth another, how do we deal him? He has had minimal value before. Remember we got an injured Thome who was blocking Ryan Howard. They were very happy to pull the trigger. Now he is 34-35 and beaten up, his bat has most likely declined from its usual mediocre level and his defense is now average. Yet we are still paying him 12-15 mil a year. In the meantime, over those seasons he is here, we still haven't won or really competed...because we wont. We are no where near the level of the Tigers or Indians. Behind the Twins. We are a few levels down with the Royals. Nothing on this team say we can compete anymore. I have been saying it all year. I wanted a firesale before the season started in fear of something like this. Did I expect it to be this bad? No. But I have that personality where if I am not playing to win, I don't play. We aren't playing to win. We are playing to field a decent team who has star power and can attract fans. Rowand is a PR move and a bad one. His contract will kill this team and force other players to be dealt instead if a firesale isnt the path we choose. We are so desperate for hope right now that Aaron Rowand sounds like our savior. Name any other team who would think that about him? There is none. If he was that special, Philly would've kept him. That OF isn't that good. I hope I covered everything. It's lengthy but I think I got most of my opinions out that you asked for.

Yea I wasn't trying to say that you meant you'd do it. I just meant I saw your avy as I was waiting for the box to load and noticed rowand. So it fit together with what I was saying. Good points btw.

I don't get what was encouraging from the post. I love Quentin but to pencil him in the next 5 years is dangerous. Do I think he can live up to his billing prior to injuries? We'll see. Key thing there too, injuries. He has hardly gone a year without one. He is very fragile so we may be in over our heads planning on him going 810 games for us or whatever the math comes out to over the next 5 years. Otherwise Linebrink could end up being a bad deal and I hope it is. I hope so because if nothing else happens noteworthy for us this offseason and Linebrink bombs...KW's days may be numbered cuz i am growing old with the ego trip he is on. Cabrera is good and an upgrade but it wasn't a necessity. It was a luxury. We weren't in position for luxuries. Keeping Uribe for another year while dealing Garland for prospects or a leadoff type OF is what he should've been dealt for. KW just figured Hunter was a lock for CF and Miggy for LF so I guess that explains the move. In retrospect, the deal is looking less likely to be helpful for us. On to your post...Rogers isnt available. Signing Rowand merely fills the hole for now, doesnt erase it. And in 4 years when we can't deal the 34 year old who is battered and bruised, and putting up his usual mediocre numbers during that stretch, maybe worse...we will be very upset. Very upset. No one will touch him. It'll as worse as Jose and Crede, all while paying him 12-15 mil to play "grinder" baseball. Last thing...We can't bank on career years. Plus most of those guys had their career years already. See 05'. Don't worry about the rambling. I do it too and I think people respect everyone around here enough to let it slide. Even if it may get on their nerves, they are quite polite (I can't spell that word anymore because of Cliff) and willing to listen. Good post.

I guess really that came out wrong...The comments were moreso about Dye and his phone call to KW. Supposedly he said KW had promised him Hunter and Cabrera this offseason and used it to the Sox advantage for him re-signing. To me, that cracks me up cuz I didn't want Dye and was hoping we'd deal him. His injuries and performance this season ruined that dream so I thought he had little choice but to come back to the Sox. Now he plays it off as if we forgot how bad he was earlier this year. What a POS for nice a guy. In all fairness though, if KW did promise him that it is safe to assume that promise was made to Buehrle and even other players on the ballclub who were curious about the teams future. The fact that it was reported that Dye called KW minutes after has to show some signs of him being upset. Unless I am really underestimating how nice the guy is and he called to tell KW "Nice try, you'll getem next time". I'd say it didn't go that route and went with Dye very upset and probably requesting information on a new plan worth staying for or to be dealt if KW didnt have one. Hopefully KW's new plan involves dealing Dye among others and then both problems are solved.

Where is this Rowand/Royals rumor coming from. I can't find a link or anything but I guess I didn't really dig through this long thread either. i say let him go. Odds are it is the same move on his part that the Marlins used on the Tigers today. Only both will backfire on us. Rowand is not worth the signing. Please do not lock up 12-15 mil a year in this guy. There are much better ways to waste money and lose. I swear there are. Let's move on already. He was great for us, let it go. 05 is gone and 07 will never occur for him again.

No. I'd like to cut him out of the picture. You can start by doing it in your avatar for me. I've been hearing rumbling of Rowand and the Royals on here and havent found it online yet. I will address that topic in the threads it's posted in but since this is a Rowand thread too, I will speak on it as well. If we decide to turn our focus to Rowand to avoid him going to the Royals this organization has problems. Who cares if he goes to the Royals. So what. They become favorites over us in the division. They are predicted 3rd instead of 4th or 5th. It's not like we are in the running to win the division and our biggest rival/contender was signing him. Then I'd say potentially a move like that make sense. Similar to how the yanks-Sox do business and how it never really matters anyways. The Sox got tricked already today when the Marlins used them for bait with the Tigers. Don't let Rowand do the same. Call his bluff and let him walk to KC. Heck, I will drive him to highway 70 and let him out in Blue Springs.

I'd pass on him because if he is our answer, why was he not plan A. That's why. If it costs us prospects, I want no part of it. He isn't going to improve us enough so I dont want him at the cost necessary for a deal. Perfect fit, true. Not worth it though. Let me add and rephrase that a little. I would deal for him and would love to have him if it costed us relievers or peanut prospects (nothing major)...even something with our vets. Not Gio, DLS, Fields or Perez. Just my guys I'd like to keep. Bailey was the youngest player but he did lose velocity so fathom was right. I'd assume he will have it back and as stated, he is young. I trust pretty much everything that kid has to offer to become a force in the league.

Yes they were young. They still were putting up big numbers. It's not like they were 21 years old when they were dealt or let go. Maggs had a few mvp like seasons. Frank being injured those years hurt this team a lot so they could've potentially won or done damage. Fact remains, they didnt and things needed to be changed. Attitudes and everything. And sorry I don't buy the grinder bs. Rowand is a good player. His effort doens't make him better. I think 90% of this board hates Eckstein and he is the exact player for your "grinder" ways. It's useless and impossible to judge. A bunch of Rick Vaughn's only wins you titles in movies.

Dream world. We have yet to sign any bigtime FA's so what makes you think we sign two in the next few weeks. All while dealing Konerko for a good looking young 1st baseman and Figgins? Way too much to do there. If you are going to make multiple moves, they should be selling moves. That team still doesn't beat the Tigers or Indians. Maybe the Twins and Royals but they're useless unless it wins us the division. I am all for trading Konerko though. He and everyone else, but regardless, I am interested in dealing Kong.

He didn't impress me either after those first few games. He is still a kid and I saw him live where he was ridiculous. I don't think anyone shares the same opinion in their organization but if they do, maybe thats why he isn't untouchable anymore and Bruce is.

I'd rather take the gamble on Floyd. In my eyes he is an easy fix but obviously it can't be the case since it's not happening. I just think he needs to hide the ball more and "reach into the backpocket" as my Dad would say when he throws. Right now he is doing like a bad Keith Foulke impersination and he gets bombed for it. Now to the reason I was posting. All this trade talk for Crede should slow down. He isn't the best 3rd baseman on the market so I'd wait to see how things shake out. Inge and Rolen are ahead of him. Key player there is Rolen in my eyes. We should let Rolen be dealt and go after the Cards. They are looking for a replacement. How about Missouri hero Joe Crede. Every Card fan I know loves him so I'd assume it's shared in the Front office but maybe not. Anyways, they are looking to deal Ankiel or Duncan and even Edmonds. Edmonds doesnt solve our age or future problem but I wouldn't mind throwing him out in CF as a last resort. Actually f*** it. I don't want Edmonds but Ankiel I wouldn't mind.

Enh Hamilton I'll pass on. For how cheap they got him, it's not worth going after him. They'll want the world and expect it. Now the Konerko idea I loved because it involved trading Paulie but I doubt they have interest. How about Jenks going there though? Can Jenks be dealt for Bruce straight up? Doubtful but that is the first thing I would target from that team. He seems untouchable but how often is a Bobby Jenks caliber player offered for a prospect straight up? The Bailey idea wasn't bad and I saw he was talk in a Bedard deal. Which confused me. Idk why he isn't off limits. They'd be better dealing Bruce for Lincecum and just keeping the old men in the OF and going for it all.

They will spend 70-80 mil and with young players (post firesale) it will easily be enough to be under it...Then in a few years we can load up and fill the place for a few years again only to underspend while those seats are sold out.

That is dead on about them not being comparable. I typed that all up in my long posts but deleted it once I reread your post and noticed I misread it. I will disagree with you on Capuano. He is shaky man. I don't want any part of that.