Chombi

Couldn't agree more. Been saying this for months.

Maggs took 3 years to get to this point. The Tigers took the gamble because they could. They got him cuz no one else wanted to take the risk at that price. Rowand is not that good. Incredible year this year. Don't argue it but he looks something like a contract year guy. Lets pay him Beltre money and enjoy his 18-25 homers next season. Yea Lee is a great hitter and I would love to have him, but not at the expense of the 05 season. The 05 season which Pods was a huge contributor too. Lee is also one of the worst defensive OF's in baseball. I was at a game one time where he was literally tossing his glove in the air like a seven old teeball player. You are thinking small time. Those 3 were together and couldn't win. We won in 05 because of what a couple of those guys did for us. Money free from Maggs and Lee's trade for Pods and Luis. This is not as big of a deal as it appears. I do wish we could still have Lee or a healthy Maggs but it's out of the question and not worth the conversation.

Seriously. I don't mind everyone showing up and selling the thing out cuz thats fun. But if it's not a sell out and we aren't going to use that money then I'd like it to go back to the 03-04 days when I really started hitting the ballpark hard for about 20-30 games a year. Not many people ever there and casual strolls to the front row behind the right field tarp were easier then breathing.

For starters...I loved one of your previous comments in this thread. The occasional snarky remarks in your post are always good for a laugh. That said, Juan Pierre is not a good leadoff guy. He can steal bases but his OBP is subpar, no power, not "clutch" and his defense isn't good (range ok but arm and everything else is bad). Owens is a better option IMO and is much cheaper. Fukudome is not coming here. Everything I have heard today points to the Cubs and the move of Soriano to the middle of the order pretty much was the start to this idea last week. Fukudome appears to be enjoying a mlb career with the Flubs. Good for him.

I'm betting that Dye phone call consisted of...Something happens this week or tell Hahn I'd like to be dealt before New Years.

Really? Only feels like last season. My appologizies. My time spent on this board tonight is starting to take it's toll. I am just worn out. The life of a DH sox fan. Too emotionally involved.

You know. You're toying with me right now. I mention LaPorta a lot on here and routinely get shot down. It's fun and I won't mention the story behind it because I sense people are getting aggitated with my man-crush on him, when it is merely just a great opportunity I see to acquire a guy like him. Also, I was informed he can't be dealt for a year since he was drafted. That I believe is true but I saw a report that the A's and Dbacks were discussing deals but talks didnt go far because they were insisting on Scherzer (Mizzou boy and guy I would love to have here). So I am not sure what the actual rule is as far as time before getting dealt.

Bingo. You can do it, but we wont.

I wouldn't deal prospects for another SP. Unless you are keep DLS or Gio and acquiring Lincecum I would just pass. The deal for Miggy was for a HOF bat which we didnt have. Bedard and Haren are good pitchers but I wouldn't call them great. Even Haren down the stretch started to look more like a 2 starter, maybe worse. The Garland trade would be useless then as well because we basically dealt prospects for Cabrera and are improving somewhat in the rotation but not as much as a Miggy deal would've improved us. That make sense? Dealing 4 guys is out of the question in my eyes for either of those 2. Bedard hasn't had prolonged success so I think it gets overlooked and needs to be pointed out a lot that he is 28 already. He is not really that young and is ready to cash in. I don't think our system as a whole is significantly better adding he or Haren. Like I said, Miggy sure. Those two...no. If Linecum is truly available. Or Cain. Supposedly one of the two is available then I'd go after them. Even Kazmir I would consider (he should be cheaper but Steve Phillips may have ruined that theory) but nothing older then 25 in a SP is worth acquiring. Unless you plan on dealing MB or jV to replace the farm a little.

I dont think that OF would've won us titles. I would love to have a couple of those pieces now because of our situation but I think the Lee deal was huge for that one season. Maggs maybe he would've been nice to have but I don't blame us for fearing his injury and his insane agent. It took Maggs a few years to get back to this point don't forget. Rowand? Please. He is a good role player but I think having Lee and a healthy Maggs around Sweeney would make people happy.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The funny thing is that a deal which didnt even involve the Sox today has caused this stir with people who weren't open to this earlier. Same with the firesale talks. It's amazing how fast something change without even changes to our team. There might just be hope on this board after all. Seems like lots of people are seeing the big picture. We are an 80 win max team on paper in a perfect world. Factor in our division and probably 70-75 wins max. Take into account we won't reach maximum potential and we should hover around 70 and most likely below 70 while carrying a top 10 payroll in baseball of 100+ million. I'd want a firesale but I am slowly losing hope in KW and not sure if I want his hands molding our future that he will probably not be apart of. I'll back you in the nomination for Hahn. I am not totally off on KW but I am gradually getting there, and with Dye's comments leaking I'd imagine some of the players are getting there too.

I won't pursue this discussion much because I have been crucified on this board for my opinions towards Bill Hall and his one good season in 5. I am curious though as to who in their right mind would trade a 5 star prospect like DLS for Bill Hall...and give Crede. I will go on the record and say DLS shows up as a top 10 pitching prospect next season and probably top 30 in baseball. I can't imagine anyone inside that range, hell even the top 50 being traded for a nobody like Bill hall. That includes a 4 star lefty like Gio. Hall somehow has lots of respect on this board. I still attribute it to a bunch of fantasy players who had him and refuse to let go of the fluke year that it was. More importantly. According to KW he wants to add OBP, cut down k's, take pitches and a few other things that Bill Hall does 0 of. Why is this guy so beloved here? I just don't get or see what is so special about him. And I certainly don't see what he has that going for him that we would deal Gio or Dls + Crede. If that is what it costs, you hang up. Call them back and laugh...Then you hang up again.

Seriously, this ESPN Boston love fest is disturbing. I say ESPN will eventually ruin baseball if Gammonds and others aren't gone soon. Everytime Boston and their prospects come up they go from journalist to fan in a matter of seconds. They get all gitty like little girls about who is next and honest to god, I think Owners and front office people believe it. Ellsbury to me is so overrated. He is Johnny Damon. Lester has overcome his problems and no disrespect to him is intended when I say he is overrated. Even Bucholz to me is overrated. If it wasn't for his no-hit bid this season he would be in a Johan deal. Why they would even consider the Sox over the Yanks is crazy to me. Phil Hughes is elite. Lester, Lowrie, etc..are not. Melky Cabrera is overrated a little in my book but even he is better then Ellsbury, and you would be getting him ontop of Hughes. It's just mind blowing. The Red Sox can scout. I will give them that. They also have the money to draft top 10 talent when it falls to them because of contracts and they also seem to lose quality players every year to FA so they get the compensation picks. Why do they??? Cuz they spend in FA. That said, why does everyone drink that organizations Koolaid? Every year it is someone knew. Where is the next big thing Craig Hansen, or Brandon Moss? How about my personal favorite Seung Song. Tony Blanco, Brad Baker. Big swingin Dernell Stenson was there stud of the future for like my high school life. I have mentioned Casey Fossum. There is more, I swear it. All of these guys were better then anyone elses prospects if you would believe espn. It's a joke. Every team has failed prospects but if you look at their track record since even like 2000. Outside of Papelbon, Han Ram (who prior to trade was slipping in Gammonds eyes I recall) and maybe Pedroia? They are much more common to fail but teams still keeping buying into them. It's bad and annoying me more then ever with this Johan talk following a WS title.

True that is. I am saying I can't see how the Orioles would accept it without both guys. If the Met's can't pony up then so be it. If I were the Mets I would try and deal Delgado or Beltran and fill up that farm a little again. I bet someone like Anahiem would bite on Delgado + bullpen help for a couple young guys. Do that to start then go deal one of those OF for a big time player.

One doesn't have to do with the other really. Regardless of a deal, Steve Phillips has proven to be a moron. I love when Ravy basically embarresses him on tv and he does nothing about it. It just makes me laugh. As far as the deal, if it happens it happens. I dont want it to but I am not the gm.

part of me thinks signing Rowand would be embarressing. I just hate the move. And he most certainly shouldn't be called an impact bat. Getting him just shows we lack the ability to land big name players. If he wasn't one of our own then even he wouldn't consider us. Going to him as a last resort is just bad. I would much rather watch Sweeney run out there daily and hope it clicks then to watch Rowand and be waiting for a broke bone/15 mil to go down the drain.

Truthfully, that is right. He has a reputation as a guy who makes moves. Small or large, they are in his arsenal if you will. Right now, he isn't capable of landing a big fish in trades it appears but teams have no problem using him for their benefit because his background is something that makes other teams believe a deal with the Sox may be legit. If KW is smart, you just scratch as many big money stars as we can from this team and fire a new missle. If we can get 3 or 4 real quality pieces for our vets (Paulie, Dye, Crede, Cabrera, Thome is he opens his clause, maybe another SP in MB or JV...maybe even Jenks...which i'll get to). In doing so we can probably have several holes filled with young talent. If we go for less overall and just grab the best mlb ready guys we can, those guys can be ready to roll in 2-3 seasons. In doing so you keep Fields, Gio, Quentin, DLS and whomever else is around and we may have ourselves a ballclub. We can hit the Free agent market hard and fill other holes. Doubt we will ever land a big name but maybe we will with the extra money to spend. I mentioned Jenks in the veteran thing because in 2-3 years will we be looking to deal him anyways. No one wants to pay a closer that kind of money and we certainly won't. I've pointed to his weight and arm issues before when I say we should consider it but he is years from FA so we could really get a lot for him IMO. My posts are getting redundant tonight because they have been echoing the same fire cry the last few times. I appologize if it's getting to you but plan A and B haven't worked out for us. I'm am sure none of our plans factored in the plans of other teams but it may have to after today. The division was tough enough and it got worse today with no signs of slowing down. Time for plan F. F for Firesale. Someone start a thread with that as the headline. I think I will after I take some medicine and eat dinner. If someone does make it, I would like credit for the ever so creative name.

Hah. It's all good brother. I think anything anyone says tonight or even for the next year can be attributed to a brain lapse from the Tigers deal that has left us all dumbfounded.

God I don't want Rowand back. We would have to be the laughing stock of baseball to resign Rowand as one of our big moves. Meanwhile the Tigers embarress us, and I still say Cleveland trumps us. Minnesota will make big headlines and the Royals are being quiet but improving. I say that in regards to the rumblings of Fukudome going to the Cubs. Someone in Seattle was reporting it. I'll find the link.

Mets are hoping Heilman and Humber have enough luster on their names to pull this one off. Without Martinez I don't bite if I am Orioles. Gomez + Martinez and a pitcher and I say do it.

I hope dominant you just mean the side of the ball we have a surplus in. If not, I am confused as to the thinking. Do I want Bedard? Sure. For that price? Not so much. The guy is 28. I'd much rather go after a Lincecum, Haren or something of that nature. "On the less boring front, Reagins said "some interesting and exciting things have surfaced" with surprising new teams. Get your speculating caps on. " That was per mlbtraderumors.com, My buddy sent me a link from there in regards to Fukudome being a near lock for the Cubs and I stumbled across that tidbit above in regards to the Angels plans. Missing out on Miggy and not really being involved in Santana was also in a blurb on that website. I hate to speculate but it will make me feel better about today's disappointment. I am hoping and assuming we will still be making deals. I personally want a firesale so my speculation is something along the lines of Paulie to that club. I am a fan of Kotchman but they love Paulie so maybe theyll be after him again. Something to speculate. BTW whether you like the mlbtr website or not they usually post quality info. Dierkes does some pretty solid work of making sure there is a legit source before posting it so I have grown on what that site has to offer the last few weeks. Although some of it is impartial to the Cubs and hatred towards the Sox, the rumor aspect is worth checking out.

They have spent money but the Tigers have had more young players then we have. They thrw out big money at Maggs when no one wanted to. They outbid everyone for Pudge. Trade for Sheff. They appear to be willing to spend whatever it takes. This season will be the same seeing as not only did they add Miggy, but a not cheap Willis too. Sheff and Pudge should be off the payroll soon. Maggs is there til when? 2010? They will have money and spend money on their core group and I still think they'll go after others, especially if they win. If not, maybe they'll settle down but they have given me no reason to think they aren't for real when it comes to being players on the FA market and spending whatever cash is necessary.

Agreed. The old bitter thing is a little unnecessary. It's a safe assumption that like most teams in baseball (excluding Florida/Pittsburg) that they will keep their "core" guys. I'd imagine in this case those guys will be Granderson, Cabrera, Bonderman, Verlander and Zumaya. They are willing to spend as proven the last few years and I am sure will have no problem affording those 5. It's easy to assume they will follow their role lately by sepnding money on other big name FA's. They shouldn't be hard to attract since they'll be contending and they have one of the best relationships with Scott Boras, who usually has the top few guys or some of the top guys available. So this team as a whole may only be around for 2 years but it's not far-fetched to see them making key additions through FA or trades. One thing I will say is they have desimated that farm. It will be funny to watch how in a year Porcello will be just as high as our no.2 prospect (barring a fall off from DLS) and that they will have a restocked system similar to the mediocre one that we have. Proving it's not tough to get back to being a decent farm system. Then we can all laugh and joke about how we didn't want to empty our farm for Miggy because it'd be such a killer for years to come.

I've been calling for a firesale close to a year. Thome and MB shocked me a little last season. I expected a bigger decline in Thome and was hoping we could deal Buehrle for more then what was apparently his market value. I pressed for it all year but eventually just gave way to what it was assuming changes would have to come in the offseason. Thus far, not so much. I have been open to a firesale the whole time but rumors like Miggy kept me somewhat open to keeping this old bunch together for one last run. The Miggy deal puts a top 5 player in baseball on a top 5 team in the AL, maybe baseball. In our division, where we play him 19 times a season. A team mind you that already was near the playoffs without any overwhelming contribution from the guys dealt to acquire Mr. Cabrera. Add Dontrelle Willis and Edgar Renteria and their potential to be a decent rotation guy/SS and it just sucks. Cleveland is the team that needs to respond to this the most. Division champs with a looming situation over their Cy Young ace. They need more offense and maybe something else in the pen (closer). I expect to see them make some big moves. I wouldn't be shocked if they entered the Nathan sweepstakes and Bay talks. Otherwise, I am unsure what other bat they could pursue to resemble some sort of a response to the Tigers move for Miggy. There isn't any on his level available, or really around for that matter. Cleveland and Detroit are great lookin teams with proven success the last couple years. Minnesota I believe in. Some people don't but I think if Liriano is healthy enough, they won't have such a big fall off. The Royals get better and better and were only 3 games worse then us so you do the math. Firesale! Deal all of them and play with your chips to see what you have. What you don't like or need, you deal for other chips midseason. Maybe a couple veteran young guys who we can lockup. Then next offseason you hit the FA market and look to deal your surplus of young talent for other guys. Someone like a Cabrera.

Kemp is a beast but there is something about him that just scares me. Can't quite peg it. He is a beast though. Supposedly has some attitude issues but otherwise Kemp + Broxton could be a good deal. I am not so sure it's enough but maybe it is. I would've expected them to land more.