Chombi

Idk if I'd go that far. Felix is nasty. To my knowledge they finally allowed him to throw that Slider last season after outlawing it prior to that, and even still I think they limited what he can throw. Once he is finally turned loose and understands a bit better of how to pitch, he will be unreal. Lincecum I saw was the one supposedly available out of him and Cain. I love the kid personally and wasn't questioning his talent, or comparing it to anything we have...or anyone has for that matter. I was saying we'd need to deal a lot for a young kid with minimal experience. If we could get him no prob, but he I would assume is as much if not more then Johan. Sampling wise, I just wish we had another year to view him before we deal the farm for him. Stuff doesn't translate to wins which was what I should've said. I'd like to see a bit more of a sampling before I deal a GIo/DLS/+ more is all. I did see to something that scared me. I saw Lincecum is a target of the Reds if they can do it without dealing Bruce. The Giants may bite if the package started with Dunn, and continued with Stubbs/Votto and something else (perhaps Hamilton, Watson or Fischer? Idk I'd imagine they'd want one arm). The thought of Bailey and Lincecum + Harang is just a scary one in my book.

Nice move. Heard about it earlier today and I was quite happy. Would've prefered Gonzalez from their choice of Carlos's but Quentin will do since he is ready for the pros. I am sad to see Carter go, but I originally thought we'd have to include Garland in a deal to land a Quentin + more. He has been an OF that I liked and others on here have pointed out to target this offseason (along with any of the Mets 3 and even Tampa's) so it's nice to see it happen. The fact we sent a good 1st base prospect away for a young OF (essentially still a prospect) with great upside makes me happy. It is definately a lot more comforting then Fields or Owens in my book. This thread is 18 pages deep so I am sure it's been discussed how teams used to rave about this guy. Shame he got injured and that the D-Backs kept Byrnes or a nucleus of Quentin, Upton and Young would've been dangerous. Carter for the Dbacks makes some sense to me since he is still 3+ years away IMO. I guess they don't have much faith in Conor Jackson? Idk what to make of it. Part of me loves this move as a whole, and another part of me thinks this could be some bait. KW just landed a pretty damn good OF prospect who would fit nicely in a deal for a big time hitter or pitcher. I wouldn't pencil him in for opening day in a Sox Uni yet. I doubt he'll be healthy for one, and two, something wouldn't surprise me to see him as added ammo for a big player. Very pleased with this move. Still a long way to go but its a satisfying start.

Yea. I saw they wanted a young "big bat". Wasn't sure if Fields qualified or how close he was to qualifying. If he is a "B" prospect and they wanted an A, I didnt see how a similar deal we were lookin at for Miggy, Crawford or even Bay couldnt be struck with them including more offense. I wouldnt want to deal Gio or DLS there because with the limited amount of action I have seen with Lincecum, I am not sure I'd deal multiple prospects (one being a top pitcher) for what is essentially a young pitching prospect with some seasoning if you will. Anyways, just curious as to if anyone had a similar thought. Thanks.

Yea between a guy like LaPorta who I'd like to keep our eye on or something else caught my eye on FoxSports.com 's rumor mill. They still are talking about the Giants being open to dealing an arm. We have spent the whole offseason discussing what bat to get. Which I support, but why not take a stab at Lincecum or Cain. I'd imagine it'd be a big package necessary but perhaps a move of Fields, Sweeney and idk what else. They claim to want a big young bat (is Josh big enough? Close but we'd need more)...Enter Sweeney and perhaps Egbert/Mac. Seems like a lot but if they are definately trying to move them under the radar, why not?

K. Let's see. Uribe in 05' was coming off a 23 homer campaign with an .833 OPS. I'd say that is much better looking then any of the 3-4 young guys in our lineup. So to say Uribe didn't look much better at this point in 04' is incorrect. Everett was a proven 20+ homer guy who we were hoping would just remain healthy until Frank got back. We figured him playing DH would keep him healthy after a disappointing 04'. Again, something I was comfortable with. Much more comfortable then I am with Richar, Fields or Owens. Iguchi in my eyes was the only real question mark but all we ever heard was he was a contact hitter that played good 2nd base. To me, I was all for it after. Again, he wasn't expected to do much outside of bunt or move Pods over. Not expected to roam CF and hit leadoff. MB and Garcia were our front of the rotation guys. Both good. Garland we thought could do well as a 3 starter. Contreras was a huge ? and I remember being nervous with him but I also recall being so optimistic that he was out of NY and also formerly known as "The Titan of Bronze". Orlando Hernadez had played very well in NY the year prior to coming here and all of the concerns only were with his health. BMac had similar hype to Gio, maybe more. Difference was we had good pitchers at the top. Garland and Duque we considered mediocre but not bad for 3-4 and Contreras/Bmac were wild cards in the 5 slot. This was how I remember looking at it when the season started. I'll give you we had question marks but 5 of our starters had been in the majors for a while, not the same as this year. And I have seen lots of optimistic things on here. Be it the Garland trade, the Linebrink signing, trade winds section or the fact we think we can win by signign Fukudome and something else. And yea, your hopes are up if you expect people to have "career years" and other nonsense. I hate to belittle that train of thought but I say you're much safer betting everyone to put up their average years. If they do, it isn't a winning team. Not expecting them to "step up" and perform above expectations because then why not expect all our rivals to do the same and their players having "Career years" or "stepping up" will produce much greater results. It's illogical and optimistic. As I said. Lets go a little further into the optimism. Juan Uribe should've been our least concern this offseason. He is a decent SS. One of few who have had 20+ homers the last few years and X amount of Rbi's. He does it hitting low in our order and while playing solid defense. Sure his OBP/AVG are low but we had much bigger problems/holes then getting rid of him (although I was pro-new SS). So what do we do. We deal one of our best chips for a SS, after we re-sign him. If you can honestly say Garland couldn't have landed a no.2 hitter in the form of an OF, or 2nd baseman then so be it. To me, a leadoff hitter would've been more important. Followed by any OF that can get on base at like a .340-.360 clip. Instead we land an aging SS who we hope will repeat last years first half, since thats what carried him through the season. Don't act like there isn't optimism on here. There is enough. There should be more people frowning on this board right now because we just finished nearly in last place. We are 24 games behind teams who are GETTING BETTER. Meanwhile, we aren't. We are touching up sore spots on the team and hope the bandaid's hold over, and they won't. Don't mistake some people who dream of landing a bigger name for guys who think this season will be bad. For further optimism, why don't you just go look into the thread of our projected 08 lineup. If that is optimistic, I don't know what is...So I guess if you haven't seen those things, maybe we aren't on the same board. And I didn't mean to single anyone out or anythign like that. I was simply asking what you guys were seeing that I didnt or how you could say 2 moves fix this team when the two moves could be signing a Jose Guillen and like Bartolo Colon.

I warm up to Jones every so often. Just the thougth sometimes of him in our park excites me but who knows.

Yea Hansen and Dave Murphy.

Yea I kind of lost myself there. I was in a hurry so I appologize. Basically, only one of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy are going so I wasn't sure what two pitchers that were spoke of that needed to be replaced by Santana. Everything I have seen lately is Hughes, Melky + one other guy. 5 guys are off limits, including Kennedy and Joba. So I was saying in regards to the comment of a deal not solving the Yanks problems that it actually could. Only Melky really contributed a lot last season and they have 3 OF's so he can be replaced. Santana is the ace they lack and could've used in the playoffs the last few years. Sure they could use guys stepping up at the plate but with a guy like Johan, it will only be a one or two run game. Johan is exactly what this team needs to take the next step next season. Dealing young pitchers surely should bother them but there appears to be a ton of them hitting the market next season (excluding Peavy I heard). If things backfire next year or they come closer to winning it, don't be surprised to see them deal more prospects again for another arm/bat. They have a lot of money coming off the payroll and can really change the layout of their team. I think that is what I was essentially getting at. Everyone knows they'll spend and next seasons class looks to be the best in years. So I think that factors into them deciding to move certain players now.

Huge difference in 05. We had a good leadoff man for one. Our bats all had near career years offensively. We didn't really have anyone I can think of like we'd have this season. Jenks really is about it. BMac we all were high on and as a 5th starter, he pitched well. Offensively we had several battle tested bats. Not 3 guys with under a seasons worth of at-bats mixed with a potential 4th. One other huge thing. We had 6 starters, not 2. I don't think everyone has to be good but in the AL, in our division you need either lots of pitching...Which we don't have. Or you need a lot of offense, which we don't have. I don't know how we can all pencil Fukudome in as some kind of stud or assume Jones will bounce back. My whole thing is a lot of people on here are getting their hopes waaaay up and just assuming all of our guys will return to 05' form. Look outside of the box and realize we are at best the 3rd team in this division. I'd say worse w/o another couple moves. It'll be tough to compete with how good the AL is. People will need to step up into their roles. 05' we had past performances to gauge expectations. We hardly have enough with some guys and others had bad seasons. It's tough to judge right now and that is what scares someone like me. I think with so many uncertainties it is very dangerous. We have 4 guys on offense who we are uncertain about, not counting the vets. And our staff has 2-3 holes. Same with the bullpen. Just dangerous at this point. Lets hope things shape out over the next couple weeks.

We'll the people that support it do not buy into our prospects. I'd rather have a depleted farm with younger guys like Cabrera, Crawford, in the majors, then having C prospects who will not do enough to ever help us.

I agree with what you're saying and that one year of experience is why they have proven little to me. I think more of a sampling is needed which is why I say it's not safe to expect improvements that seriously help this team. I was never one ot think 05' was a fluke or anything. I argue against it to the grave when it isn't a sox fan to sox fan conversation. When it is, I can't help but to start to believe the doubt surrounding it. Someone has to take the negative, pessimistic approach to things or else we'd be a bunch of Cub fans and refuse to point out our real weaknesses. Every year guys regress or refuse to repeat that success from that season...IE Contreras, Dye, Garland, AJP, Crede even guys like Freddy or El Duque. Their age doesn't help things in some cases but even so, the last 2 years no one has really touched their 05' numbers. Maybe scratched them in certain areas but thats it. Most of our guys had career, or near career years. I didn't listen then when they were pointing out that our team was really the 2nd half team we saw, not the first half. I saw the playoffs as proof that those people were wrong. 06' I thought was enough to prove them wrong but again, a bad 2nd half can't be ignored. Take those things into account with how poor we played all last season and you can't help but to think that if we don't improve, how can we argue that 05' wasn't a fluke. That is partially why I want the team blown up or huge improvements to be made. And I hate the word Fluke. That team to me, regardless of career years or whatever, was the best team assembled that season and thats that. The problem is we all keep expecting it to happen again with the team be predominately the same and it's just not going to happen. You say 2 moves? Depending on how many holes are filled in each move, I'll give you that. I think we need 1-2 OF's and could use another SP/RP. So I'd say 3 moves minimum if done correctly. This team really just needs a Superstar. Be it a dominant ace or a big bat. Preferably younger so we get some youth with blue chip talent. If not, I think we are setting ourselves up for another let-down. No matter how good we think this team looks on paper. We have to realize everyteam in our division thinks the same way. A division where Detroit got better, Cleveland will be better, Royals are improving, and the Twins potentially could be better/worse. I think on paper we are around .500, put it in our division and we are 10 games under.

Please explain how we have a good team? We have a decent team, who if they all can perform as we hope, can be .500. That logic isn't right to approach a season. This team has had 2 good halves in the last 3 years. 1st half of 05' and the first half of 06'. Not much else. maybe our barely over .500 in the 2nd half of 05'. They're old, injury prone, and most of all...unreliable. Maybe you can say MB is reliable. JV isn't. One good season for a bad ballclub doesn't automatically make him a lock for repeat success. No one has a clue what Contreras will do and obviously our kids in the rotation are uncertain. You can't be good with no rotation. Our bp (although I think will be better) isn't a lock for improvement. Linebrink has been pathetic his last 30+ appearances and could turn out to be exactly what teams feared, a product of Petco. Offensively. Konerko should turn it around but who knows. He seems to have an off year every few. Dye WILL NOT REPEAT 05!!! So we need to stop treating him like he is that same superstar. He is an aging, injury prone OF with 30-100 numbers if he remains healthy. Thome I am uncomfortable with because of age and injury liability, but assuming he is healthy and since he is a DH, minor injuries shouldn't harm his production. We have no leadoff hitter. Owens, Fields, Richar have proved little.Why we are expecting them to be good players is beyond me. We can hardly deal any of them for a bag of balls. The team is just dangerously bad. There are more con's then pro's with this team. We won with our core. Had a chance in 06 and blew it. In today's game you need to flip it and start again. Time to blow it up! We do appreciate our farm and thats the problem. Incase you haven't noticed. Every other team in baseball are the ones who don't appreciate it and something tells me that they may be right. Unless your 1 -2 moves are acquiring a guy like Crawford/Cabrera, followed by a deal for Johan/Bedard...there isn't much that can save this team.

Santana is the best 1/5 you can have though. He'd win 20+ easily imo. Hughes and Joba aren't both going in the deal and I can't imagine you'd mean Kennedy as the 2 pitchers you were refering to. A) he isn't going and B) he hasn't proven anything... so I am lost as to who the other guy you were talkin about that Santana would need to outperform other then Hughes. Santana takes a Yankee playoff team and gives them what they lack. A go to guy. He can win 2 games for them in a series in the playoffs and that is something they'll need. Not to mention they will have no problem locking him up. All they care about is this year. They care about next but what I mean is this. They're a playoff team and adding Santana while subtracting minimal contribution from last seasons team is huge. Now we know the Yankees so don't think for a second that in their minds, dealing a Hughes and others is completely forgotten with the arrival of Johan. If they add Kennedy so be it. Their is a surplus of SP's that will be available via FA or trades next season. Guys like Giambi and his 21 mil will be off the payroll. Abreu and his 17 mil. Mussina has 11 mil. Pavano and his 11 mil. Even Farnsworth comes off the payroll with like 6 mil. Basic addition brings us to 66 mil free. Some will go into Johan but even then it won't stop the Yanks from spending. They know what is available and Santana is a brilliant move for them because he contributes next season instead of 09. There isn't a bidding war in FA with multiple teams, including your BoSox. And yea you give up a great young arm but he isn't proven yet and I don't think he will be on Johans level anytime soon.

I don't think it's going overboard. I don't even think the Sox are necessarily a very bad team. It is the fact that we remain in one of the toughest, if not the toughest in baseball. The goal is to win. We are putting together a team that just won't come in last, or at least try not to. This isn't a team that can win and I don't know what you've got in that optimism-pipe, but I would certainly love some of it. I am completely lost in what you saw from Danks in the second half? I can only remember two good games all year. One of them was in KC cuz I was at the game. I think he went 7 or 8 of 1 run ball. He had another one early in the year too similar to that. Otherwise he didn't impress me as expected. his 2nd half I just wanted to puke everytime out. I like the Uribe idea but I think you could get a decent reliever for him. Fokodume I wouldn't mind but again...I think it's a mistake to just keep filling holes with guys. I feel like a small corporation who hires a bunch of people who aren't qualified to fill positions during expansion. The intentions the whole time are to build before a merger or being bought out, then all those people get canned because they were simply pawns. In our case, we won't be so lucky to get bought out or get rid of our guys that easily. Crede we will see what comes out of. 7th inning wise I think we should let Perez have a shot at. I love how he looks. Our bp will be better this year, I thought the Linebrink signing was unnecessary but I am not against it. I have confidence in our bp guys turning it around over anyone else on this team. Don't ask why. *BTW if Linebrink doesnt right the ship and avoid his trends then I think it spells the end for KW (provided he doesnt make several other positive moves) I've always looked at baseball with a simple plan. If you aren't putting together a team to win this year, then dont and build for the future. This team is neither. It's a joke. I am not saying you go Florida Marlins every few years but I am saying it's not a bad idea for an enima once or twice in a decade. Especially with how easy it is to turn into a winner again with the element of FA. Incase it hasn't been noticed but Sox fans/execs are the only people who buy into our prospects. So expecting Owens, Fields, Richar and some of these arms to do anything more then be mediocre is dangerous. If no one else wants your players, isn't that a sign?

Yea that is true. I wasn't even thinking about Cuddyer's arm. I am surprised you are high on Melky's, I wasnt so sure everyone was on the same page with that. Paulie is going to need to be careful when he legs out those double's or does his usual first-to-third/2nd-to-home on a single. I don't think he is a lock to pull those off anymore.

Haha I do remember that. I wonder if they're kicking themselves a little? I think Patterson and one of their prospects were in the deal. Maybe Cruz or Guzman or like Hill. Can't pinpoint when it exactly was I just remember the chatter. I am all for Bedard on the Sox front just not so much Miggy. I think I am more pro-Prior then I am Tejada. BTW...do you think Alvarez will slip to us? I'd love for him or Crow to land at 8 for us. I dont care who the agents are at that time.

Outside of a Santana deal, I don't see the Twins regressing that much from last season. Garza, as much as I love the guy, had not done anything special. The replacement of him by Liriano in the rotation will surely be enough to compensate for him (provided Liriano is healthy). Liriano is like a FA for them to an extent since they didn't have him last year. We can't overlook that. Add on top of that Delmon Young. Don't be fooled by the fact that he played in Tampa and hasn't "broke out" yet. If it isn't this season, o well, I'd still imagine offensively his numbers will be comparable to Hunter's. His numbers will improve and they weren't really that bad to begin with for a guy who was considered a rookie. Now Santana appears all but out the door. The NYY look to be the winner. So I guess really you can pencil Melky in CF for them which will be an improvement when you count him + Young in that OF over just Hunter. I guess Liriano would be better suited to compare to Johan in this case, not Garza. Liriano will fail to measure up but Hughes shouldn't have trouble outperforming Garza and could potentially bridge the gap for Liriano-to-Santana performance wise. Silva basically is the X factor for them. It all depends on how high you are on guys like Slowey. I think Slowey is going to be a good middle of the rotation starter and can play on a Silva level. Perkins is nothing to be overlooked either. Although I am just not 100% sold on him yet. Don't forget Nathan is likely to be dealt. I'd imagine they can command one or two mlb ready pieces. Probably a good SP and maybe a 2nd baseman? Neshek I think could be a good closer but maybe I overrate him a little. All in all, the only way I see this team not being as good or better is inexperience and health. On the surface, perfect world scenario's, I thnk they look better. It's tough to say it when you lose 3 elite players but they are replacing them with elite TALENT. Those guys may not be ready but nothing says they can't be. Replacing Santana will be impossible but upgrading elsewhere can make up for it. As it stands now with Santana and Nathan. They are better then us. When they deal those guys...I'll still say they look better then us and will embarress us during the season because they did what we should've. Their young studs will beat up our old ones and we will all be in this same position next year.

^True but that was when he was a minor league nobody, not a top 5-10 closer in the majors.

Not enough.

Hah...I just posted a thread on Alexi Ramirez. Wish I would've known it wouldve been hiden in here. Guess it can be closed out if any Mods want to.

Hmm interesting...Thanks for the info guys.

If he is in the Dominican already is there a reason that he hasn't had much noise out here? Is he allowed to start negotiations and what not, or are teams waiting to see how he performs there?

I saw it's stuck on one player for the deal to the Yanks...Kennedy is apparently out. Hughes + Cabrera + someone else. Good for the Yankees. So much for keeping their own talent. ***Not related to the Yanks but I saw the Rolen to Milwaukee is heating up again. I am curious what now happens to a guy like Matt Laporta now. Is there any chance we could land him? I'd love to see Paulie moved for some young prospects and deal a couple arms for LaPorta.

Hmm? Didn't know that. I was under the impression he was Cuban and wasn't available until he established residency in the Dominican.

I haven't seen anything really on Sox for Bay other then that we have a vacancy in the OF for him. If he can be had for guys like Mac + others then why not? I have only seen Bay to the Indians and stuff as far as relevance to us.