lostfan

Damn is it just a coincidence that someone gave me the link to this site today at like the same time this thread got started?

I'm not sure what saying this does to the argument, but if the gov't really did decide to call you up, i.e., draft you, they would give you a gun and you wouldn't even be allowed to use yours.

Hey I got a good idea... if you're upset about your prophet being insulted and having him and your religion portrayed as terrorists in a silly cartoon, in response, go burn things, blow s*** up, and kill foreigners... that'll show em you're not all a bunch of terrorists. If that doesn't work, then actually threaten major terrorist attacks to remove all doubt that you should be portrayed as a terrorist

I end up taking the side of cops more often than not to balance things out but I can bash politicians, I have no issues with that.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 08:32 PM) If you wanna just sit here and bash the government Im game for that Well I do a lot of bashing on privileged rich people, I'm not sure how much that counts though.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 08:16 PM) Either way theres nothing I can do about it. I can see why people discuss it as a problem but that isnt going to accomplish anything either. Like I said earlier, this has been an issue for a long time and nothing drastic seems to be happening. If its going to be harped on than it will always create tension. Allocation of funding for schools is set up by the government not by us. I would lump it into the conversation of injustices by the government on people before I would label it a race issue. It's not a race issue though. By itself anyway.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 08:04 PM) Im not saying they arent relevant, Im just saying that are lots of other issues that are never discussed and thats what I was getting at. Public schools have been discussed in that regard for a long time and we are still at this "stalemate" There are much more important things in this conversation than public schooling because in a sense individuals like us cant control things like that but we can control our thoughts and opinions and thats what needs to be explored more than stuff people have been arguing about for decades. I'm not even sure that our personal thoughts and opinions are as much the issue as they were 20, 30, 40 years ago though. I mean of course that's still around, hell you've got idiots at places like www.amren.com spewing nonsensical garbage as always. But as I said a few pages ago the vast majority of white people I've known are genuinely not racist and have no issues with seeing minorities succeed, and I've never personally experienced blatant racism. That couldn't be said in, say, the 1960s. Talking about it doesn't hurt, though.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 08:01 PM) I wasnt trying to compare Obama to those people. I was just saying that those types of people are one of the biggest hurdles to accomplishing the goals that were the point of the speech. Now that I think I get your point of view, I agree. I would make the case that they're misunderstood but I'm convinced that Jackson and Sharpton are in it for Jackson and Sharpton and that's the only reason they do anything. They aren't leaders, they're opportunists.

Social classes and education funding is 100% relevant which is why the conversations always gravitate towards it in these types of conversations.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 07:51 PM) What in your opinion is valuable to the conversation? When ever this issue is discussed it always goes the same route, public schools, poverty etc. Obama did do one thing which was acknowledge we are at a stalemate about this topic and there are underlying issues that are too taboo to discuss so people are scared to. Im not trying to come off as racist or offend anyone myself. Im trying to clear the air. The things Ive talked about are things that have always bothered me and I think if nobody ever discusses the issues they will never be resolved. I dont know where youre coming from and you dont know where Im coming from and I think once people learn to understand others that are different from them is the first step in accomplishing this goal. Im sure there are lots of things that people of every race or religion dont understand or like about other races or religions but if everyone is too scared to ask or talk about it the barrier will always be there. We can all sit here and discuss lack of funding for public schools and whatever else but even though I disagree with what Obama said, I do agree with the idea of trying to end the racial tension that has always existed that people are scared to confront because they dont want to be labeled a racist or bigot. It's not that I think you're a racist or anything dumb like that, it's that it really bothers me when people talk in really general terms or go off and railroad the discussion into a strawman argument, I'll be reading their reply to something I said and it's almost as if I've said something completely different and doesn't match anything I've said in the threads. That's the direction I saw it heading and whenever I see something like that happen on a MB I will say something to the effect of "I'm not doing that, it's a waste of time" etc. Specifically in this case I was under the impression that you thought I was blaming slavery for problems today (I'm not and I thought I was being pretty specific) and that you started hinting at the fact that I support Jackson, Sharpton, et al even though I said the distinct opposite in the thread (I think you probably weren't but that's really what it looked like). When that happens, when what I'm saying doesn't resonate and I get the impression the person isn't listening - disagreeing with me is fine - I feel like I'm wasting keystrokes. I'm really not trying to be an a-hole so if that's how I'm coming across I'm sorry. Where I agree with you, and everyone else, is that we need to air things out. But if we're going to do that we need to be open-minded and accept that we're going to hear things we don't want to hear.

I know you think you're being constructive but you really aren't contributing anything of value, it's just divisive BS. I can't really respond to anything you said without pissing you off.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:04 AM) Johan played infield in Venezuela. He tried to imitate his father who was right handed and later found out he was left handed. Link That's pretty funny, it's gotta be like "ohhhh well damn no wonder I suck, geez"

Oh and Fields is a terrible left fielder, he is a 3B and that's that. Especially with all the OFs this team has right now.

QUOTE(wilmot825 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 02:01 PM) The reason I said cocky was the fact I met him the night before Soxfest began. I was inside the private party at ESPN Zone, and met all the players and coaches. Jerry Owens refused to sign autographs until he finished eating, but all the other players signed and took pictures while they ate. Then afterwards I asked for his autograph and photo and he was like "yah but lets hurry it up," then before I could get a picture he sidetracked to talk to Greg Walker. Maybe I just had a bad experience with him, but he comes off as cocky and a jerk...to me atleast. lol, dude, I was expecting a bombshell or something that I didn't know about. This has no bearing whatsoever on whether he should be an everyday player on the Sox or his attitude towards the team, come on now. By the way, as far as something tangible, he's been working hard this past offseason to get better, he knows the areas he needed to improve to be able to make an impact as a MLB player. And he's batting .440 this spring. I would've liked to see him have more than 1 walk... but damn I mean expecting him to have a .530 average instead of a .440 average is kind of expecting a bit much. Bottom line, his attitude is the last of things I'm worried about with Jerry Owens.

Huckabee just earned a couple of cool points in my book.

Ok, I think I get what he was saying now. I get the 10th amendment I was just confused by the end of the post, he was saying everything in the BoR is an individual right except that one.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 09:21 AM) *The 10th reserves powers not granted in the Constitution to the Federal government for the States and people and the language makes it clear that its a collective/ government right. I don't think I understand what this means.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 09:25 AM) If there was one thing I learned from my run for school board it is that race, sex, religion, and any other ism you can throw out there pale in comparision to being poor as an indicator of where someone will go in life. Kids from bad areas preform badly, regardless of race, more often than any other difference you can draw between students. The property tax system to fund schools is a HUGE failure. Agree 100%. If you're black and grow up in a well-off family in a predominantly upper-middle class to rich white neigborhood you're much more likely to "make it" than you would be if you're white from a poor family in a predominantly poor black neighborhood. Now, the problem is, what race(s) do most poor people come from? And many people don't see very far past that.

You touched on something I mentioned in the edit to my post, the disparity in public school funding. I think you're absolutely right, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for schools in higher property tax areas to be better funded than poor areas. Kids are kids, they all deserve an equal shot no matter where they come from. In Maryland it's a really big problem. Schools in Baltimore suck while rich kids in the outlying counties get damn near private-school quality education. What's that about? I like the intention behind affirmative action but I'm against the way it works out, I think some kind of class-based system could be worked out as long as the most qualified people are given the fairest shot in the end. But I still think ethical practices in the workplace, school etc. should be strictly enforced (anti-discrimination rules, etc., most places I've been do this).

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 08:07 AM) And your point of view is shared with most "minorities"... thank goodness. It's the vocal "minority" (pardon the pun) that causes trouble. And I'm a Southsider to the bone, a product of Chicago Public Schools. Although I don't live in Chicago anymore. So it may have been more difficult for me, but it certainly wasn't impossible. And it's not directly anyone's "fault", either. I see things as class-based rather than race-based, poor people are at a natural disadvantage. If a white kid grows up in Englewood he is going to have the same rough path a black kid has. But it just so happens that blacks and Mexicans have been put into that situation in disproportionately large numbers, the reasons for that come from a long time ago and that's where a lot of animosity comes from. Now the problem is, how do we undo it? It's complex.

It's not a matter of enacting more policies IMO, we already have plenty of laws. It's a matter of acknowledging the past, understanding it, and airing it out instead of avoiding it. Leadership that we haven't seen since MLK died (Jackson, Farrakhan, and Sharpton couldn't cut it).

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:47 PM) Whats the relevance of it? We had nothing to do with slavery so why can it be used as an excuse when dealing with people now. How is the country supposed to move forward when theyre always looking back at a dark part of our past? I've explained this at great length already and the context of what Obama was talking about when he mentioned it in the speech. Don't be holding your breath waiting for me to do it again.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:42 PM) I cant believe people still use slavery as an excuse. Nobody is saying this, so stop saying they are.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:20 PM) Slavery has nothing to do with anyone alive and and is used as a cop out. In many cases, yes it is. But that doesn't mean it's always irrelevant. It had more to do with Jim Crow laws than slavery, and that's put a vicious cycle into motion that's hard to stop. Easier than it was 20 years ago but still hard.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 18, 2008 -> 11:27 PM) Right. I agree with that. But I think it's used by quite a few African-Americans as a crutch to inflict racial divides (on that side), which is where we get back into Wright and his speeches about "rich white folks". It's nice to blame "White America" but in reality, everyone has a chance if they want it. It's all on whether you want to be a victim. I'm mixed (you guys all probably figured I was black so I never bothered to mention it, I figured my own race was irrelevant though) and to get where I'm at, quite honestly, no white person has ever "held me back." And to be honest I've never had an N-bomb dropped to my face... anonymous morons on the Internet notwithstanding. The number of white racists I've met is actually pretty small, and I've even lived in the South. But at the same time I haven't gotten a thing because of affirmative action, everything I've gotten is on my own. I say all this to say I try to go out of my way not to paint with that "white people" brush because all it does is divide and turn people off, and shut ears. I only speak about race in a historical context and if I talk about today it's on a "macro" type level. So, as far as what you're saying here, I agree with you.