lostfan

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 8, 2008 -> 05:32 PM) There are only 4 slow-footed vets on this team, I would say the core is now younger and more athletic, or older and quick (Ocab) Fields, Quentin, Swish, Richar, are young, athletic, and promising, couldnt you say thats our core as well? I really like the fact that we have a lot more speed in this lineup and less station-to-station baseball, it makes us so much more versatile. And if we ever managed to land a true leadoff hitter... man.

Didn't Dye have lingering hamstring problems for a large part of last year that he wouldn't admit to? I seem to recall reading about that somewhere. Dye played excellent defense in 2006 and had good speed on the basepaths. Something he didn't have in 2007.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 08:05 PM) Ok. As long as you don't want to jump ship with Fields just because he's below average defensively right now like a lot of Sox fans seem to want to do. Let him prove he can't play the position before moving him. Aramis is also a 3B that has made tremendous strides defensively. Give it time. I think we'll all be very satisfied. No, I'm not saying that at all. That'd be stupid actually. When you have a bat with as much power potential as Fields's you get him in the lineup somehow, someway. That's actually the foundation of me saying "put Fields at first" although I only would want to see it as a last resort. Having another 3B on the team who fields better shouldn't squeeze Fields out of the lineup. I tell you what though, I'd love to be wrong. I was worried he'd strike out a ton and would flame out like the rest of our prospects. Well, he does strike out a lot, but suffice it to say it's ok.

Obviously NE is the clear favorite but I think it'd be funny as hell to see the reaction of all those cocky D-bag Pats "fans" crying if they were to lose.

I still really like Danks. The tools are there, he has decent stuff and a Buehrle-like demeanor on the mound. He needed to add another pitch. If memory serves me correctly he needed to refine another off-speed pitch and he would've been good to go consistency-wise. You look at his walk-to-strikeout ratio and it wasn't too bad. I'm hoping he can put up an ERA of about 4.5 next year.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 11:36 AM) Let me illustrate something to you... Joe Crede's first 7 seasons in pro ball defensively: 1996 25 errors, .857 FPCT 1997 33 errors, .905 FPCT 1998 39 errors, .929 FPCT 1999 10 errors, .910 FPCT*(injury shortened year, only 74 games played) 2000 19 errors, .942 FPCT*(Minor Leagues) 2000 1 error, .933 FPCT*(Major Leagues) 2001 20 errors, .946 FPCT 2002 15 errors, .944 FPCT*(Minor Leagues) 2002 8 errors, .938 FPCT*(Major Leagues) Fast forward to 2006: 2006 10 errors, .978 FPCT It took Joe 8 seasons to become good defensively, and some people now worship the ground he walks on. Joe wasn't born with a gold glove on his left hand. For comparison sake... Josh Fields 2007 season (3rd full season of pro ball): 2007 9 errors, .958 FPCT (Majors) Granted, Fields went to college and Crede didn't, but Fields had been splitting time with football is whole life. 3 full seasons of 100% baseball, and I think Josh could be ready to show a sizable amount of improvement very shortly. You're starting to be on to something, but Aramis Ramirez consistently puts up FPCT in the mid to high 900s too and I don't think anyone really disputes that Crede is a better defender (just like nobody in their right mind would dispute that Ramirez is a far better hitter, and Fields too for that matter but that's another discussion). To get a full picture you'd have to account for things like zone ratings, glove reliability, arm - since Fields is a quarterback and has a f***ing rocket launcher for an arm I'd say that's the one thing he has that I'm counting on. I'm not saying that Fields is going to suck as a 3B forever, just that I don't see him ever being anything better than an average defender. I'm not talking about arbitrarily moving him either, only if certain moves are made that leave the team with another legit 3B and Konerko is gone (Swisher atm may be a really good 1B but he's the best CF on the team whether we like it or not).

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 11:22 AM) Skimming the thread, why would everyone be arguing whether Swisher or Fields would become the 1B if Konerko was traded? Jermaine Dye would be the perfect candidate to be our next 1B, because it would also free up RF for Quentin, LF for Swisher, and leave CF to Figgins, or some other filler D-first type CF off of the scrapheap. Dye with his athleticism and height is a natural future 1B if you ask me. I like this idea a lot, I hadn't ever thought about it before.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) Anderson and Young weren't equally good prospects at the time of the trade IMO, Young had an edge. I for one wouldn't have been too nervous about Young playing CF in '06. Skipping AAA isn't unheard of and the stuff about a raw player struggling with his batting average is revisionist history since he hit .277 in AA right before we dealt him. Also, let's not forget that the pressing hole we filled at the time was "sixth starter." Trading Young was by no means essential to defending our World Series Crown. Look at Boston, you don't see them bending over backwards to deal all of their top prospects. I'd say Young had a higher ceiling than Anderson, but he was more raw. Either way both of them were legit prospects. Looking at his career batting averages in the minors he's never really hit for a very high average, I think his average in the minors was .260 when we traded him. Eventually at the MLB level he will learn to hit for contact reliably, but I don't see that happening if he comes up to be the uncontested starter in 2006.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 01:46 AM) How much is it going to have to snow to stop the New England passing attack? 4 inches? This looks like an easy win for New England, especially with a week of rest. New England is unbeaten, not unbeatable. It's not a coincidence that the teams that actually have the balls to blitz Brady aggressively and force him into making mistakes are the ones that have been the closest to winning. Those teams also have a versatile rushing attack... NE had no answer for Addai, Westbrook, or even McGahee off the top of my head. I happen to think Jacksonville has a very good chance of beating the Pats. I don't necessarily think the Jags will win but it certainly won't be easy for the Pats.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 03:18 AM) No offense to anyone but I think you'll almost always find most Sox fans in favor of a prospects for major leaguers deal. First of all, despite Sox fans' reputation as pessimists, most fans I've encountered defend the overwhelming majority of Kenny's moves. Look no further than the Chris Young trade: the consensus in baseball is that Young is a highly promising young player and we got hosed in the deal but many White Sox fans still adamantly defend the deal. People moan about Young's OBP even though he improved markedly in the second half of his rookie year and posted a .358 OBP in the minors. More importantly though, Sox fans seem very willing to throw their support behind any deal where "unproven" prospects are deals for established players. People in this thread seem to be explicitly saying they believe a prospects for major leaguers deal is always a good deal, which I find completely mind boggling. Every All-Star and Superstar player was a prospect once and most of them where highly touted prospects like DLS and Gio. You know what really kills me about the Chris Young deal... they act like we got completely screwed on that deal and that Kenny should've KNOWN he was going to be a better CF than Anderson, shame on him for having a broken flux capacitor on his Delorean and not being able to know in advance. If you're ready to defend a WS title and you have to bank on one of your two really good, 5-tool prospects filling a hole, are you going to go with the one that's still a raw AA project that is still working on hitting for average (power numbers notwithstanding), or the (apparently) refined player who tore up AAA and hit close to .300 in the minors? If I have to flip a coin I'm going with the second. Does anybody think Chris Young would've been the same impact player he is for AZ that he is on the Sox if he was put into the starting role in CF in 2006? I somehow don't think so. I tend to think we would've been just as impatient with him as we were with Anderson. Yeah that choice obviously blew up in Kenny's face but I don't really fault him for making it at the time. Although... last time I checked, that hole in the roster brought Jim Thome, who doesn't exactly suck (not happy about Frank leaving, but whatever, what can you do). And the player we gave up bought us a legit #2 starter.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 11:11 PM) No one did say that. Some, however, are under the assumption that Fields would immediately become an average+ defender at 1B simply by putting him over there. It doesn't work like that, or at least it hasn't for the vast majority of people moved to 1B. I didn't say anything like that nor do I recall anyone else saying that. The only thing I've been saying is that Fields's liability on defense is going to be less at 1B than it is at 3B. I don't see what the big deal would be about him making mistakes while trying to learn the position, he's going to do it at 3B too.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 07:11 PM) Yeah, most players get written off after not even a full season of ball in the majors..... Crede came up and immediately was godly...... Josh Fields has been playing pro ball for 4 years now. How much do you think he's going to improve on defense, realistically? It's not like hitting, where each time you move up it's harder and harder and there's adjustment required. You either can field or you can't. You can be coached to some degree but if you don't have it, you're not just going to suddenly get it when you get called up to the majors. He might one day be an average defender at 3B and that's an absolute best case scenario.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 06:52 PM) Why do people just assume you can stick any shmo over at 1B and they'll automatically be at least average defensively? There are skills needed to play there just like any other position. Fields has rarely ever played the position in his career. He's got enough defensive potential to stick at 3B, and shouldn't be moved to 1B unless we acquire a top 3B. Because if you are an athlete like Fields, who does have said skills, you can. A 3B who can't theoretically play 1st is pretty much worthless.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 06:29 PM) I think it's entirely possible that both Floyd and Danks will be roughly "Average" next year, and if that happens, we'll consider Floyd more valuable simply because he's almost guaranteed to give us more innings and remain fresher longer. If both of them are average I think the team really wouldn't be in very bad shape. Danks pitched reasonably well before taking a dive from a tired arm or whatever in the stretch run, and Floyd wasn't THAT bad, with some work he'd make a decent #5 as long as he doesn't blow up and have an ERA of 6.50. It'd just take a lot of luck for both pitchers to reach their highest potential.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 06:20 PM) He's an above average offensive 3B. He'd be a below average offensive 1B meanwhile adding nothing defensively. Above average offensive 3B... below average defensive 3B. I don't particularly care how he hits in comparison to other 1Bs, esp. in the AL. Defense disadvantages mitigate offensive advantages and if you go to 1B it's just offset. He is in the lineup providing power numbers and decent speed, that's what's important.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 02:43 PM) Moving Fields to 1B hurts his value as well. How exactly? As things stand now, he just plain isn't a good defensive 3B.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 05:14 PM) I think Floyd will out preform Danks in 2008... Just another one of my "crazy" baseball theories. That's not really that crazy. At worst that's unfounded optimism (or pessimism if you're saying Danks will crash)

QUOTE(Soxpranos @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 04:50 PM) Well said, not to mention our Pitching sucks . Williams screwed up big time in my eyes. I didn't expect for this team to be 100% rebuilt and ready to contend for the AL in one season though. Step 1 was getting rid of the dead weight, step 2 was adding some youth and speed in the lineup. Step 3 is solidifying the rotation unless Contreras trips and falls into a fountain of youth and Danks and Floyd pitch out of their minds and turn into bona fide MLB starters. Danks I can see pitching well enough for a #4, not sure about Floyd.

The Chicago Angels and the Los Angeles White Sox... I really do hope we find a way to land Figgins though.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 07:43 PM) Free agency is the only realistic way we can get better. Who... Where... When... ...and how much. What free agent who is out there right now is going to make the Sox into a WS contender all of a sudden? We have question marks/holes in the rotation but unfortunately there is no magic switch that the GM can flip to fix it. Either the guys we have are going to do well or they aren't, that's just how it is.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:54 PM) Then how will we compete? By trading some prospects for major league players? That's a nice theory when you actually have prospects other teams would want to trade for... how how about we bring up some prospects who can contribute a la Joba Champerlin? Oh wait, we don't have any good prospects who we could call up and make a difference. We should've given $100M to Hunter and $350M to A-Rod, just for good measure, no way they could've refused that. Next year we should throw $200M at Johan Santana. But KW won't give all that money to free agents, so he sucks, and we will suck. Geez dude, I thought I was overly critical of KW sometimes, I mean damn.

QUOTE(JFields27 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 07:00 PM) yeah oh well when Crede came up what did everyone say, he had great defense hes gonna get everything, but where the hell is his bat. He got his bat with some experience. Fields comes here with a great power bat, and last season he made some very nice plays at 3B and at other times it was just like damn what was he thinking with that, I think he could be taught some skills at the position to make him better I'm not saying he's not going to improve, but hitting tools are more likely to develop than fielding tools, especially if you hit well in every level of the minors like Crede did. Fields, on the other hand, has been playing professional baseball for several years now and it's not like fielding at the MLB level is much different from fielding in the minors, so I don't expect him to become a significantly better defender although he is pretty athletic. It'd be nice if he did though.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:43 PM) The only way this team can compete in the near future is by spending loads of money in FA lol I don't care what sport you're talking about, that is a thoroughly retarded approach to running a franchise unless you have unlimited resources like the Yankees, and even then it's not necessarily the best option.

I just wish Fields could routinely make plays at 3B that I couldn't make. I guess it's good he isn't Ryan Braun, but damn what a significant defensive downgrade that'd be.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 06:28 PM) I'm series, if Kenny makes a Konerko for Santana and Figgins trade, I am done as a White Sox fan until after we finish behind the royals and Kenny Williams dumbass is fired. Yeah... a complete waste if they don't include Vlad in the deal, God knows guys like Thome, Dye, Swisher, and Fields don't provide enough power to this lineup. Oh and I want their best pitching prospect too. It needs to be even more one-sided than the A.J. Pierzynski trade.