DaTank

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) Has nothing to do with trends. The quote clearly implies pitching in PETCO has improved his career line, when that is in fact, false. A simple glance at his career home/away splits shows EVERYTHING has been better on the road. ERA, WHIP, BAA, H/9, K/9, BB/9, HR/9. Don't use that as your argument for 2nd worst FA signing if it isn't even true. Your forgetting to think about the money. 4.25 mil a year for a reliever coming into the AL and to one of the most hitter friendly ballparks in U.S. Cellular. And he is past his prime.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7542024...P&GT1=10734 Linebrink listed as the 2nd worst signing of the off-season behind Kaz Matsui by FoxSports. Hunter for 5/90 listed as the 4th worst.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 11:08 PM) Anyone else think we might trade Crede tomorrow, prior to the arb deadline? I know this is about Fuku, but it's the happening thread. It would make sense, but I really don't see it.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:57 PM) I hadn't heard that Nathan was involved, but yeah, they'd be getting nearly every Boston top prospects. I hadn't head it either, I'm just saying IF he was included in a BoSox deal...

Just throwin out an IMO, but I think vets like Thome and Kong and Bobby and Buehrle and Vazquez should teach the new guys how to become better hitters, starters, and relievers, as I have not seen much of this as of late. Show them the mechanics it takes to compete as a big league player and become clubhouse voices like Rowand was.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) I agree. Also consider that they will get more top minor league talent for Nathan, and this is a team that is potentially loaded once these guys get some experience in the majors, and we know their solid reputation for developing talent. If Nathan was included in a BoSox deal they would probably include Ellsbury and Lester/ Buchholz plus 1 or 2 mlb ready players.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:46 PM) I don't think there's any way Santana is resigned there. He has turned down a few offers already. I'm still expecting him to be traded before spring training. They don't want to resign him for how much he wants now and its not like he would give them a discount. Plus why not get 1-2 amazing prospects and 1-2 major league ready players for him?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) Makes sense. If they aren't going to win in 2008, and Santana isn't going to re-sign, they might as well get players that will be there for 5 or 6 years for him. It still boggles my mind Boston was hung up on not giving up Ellsbury in a trade for him. Santana, Beckett, Dice-k and Bucholz would be tough to beat. Not to mention Curt Schilling as an inning eater for at least one more season.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) That type of stuff doesn't matter when we're talking about this amount of money. Cubs came in with the most, and got him. The money alone shocked me on this one though. As some other people said earlier they will probably regret this within the next 2 years.

Fukudome to the Cubs really surprised me since, IMO, he is overpaid for someone who hasn't played 1 game in the MLB yet and since the Cubs really don't have to history with Japanese players for as long as I can remember. The Sox had signed Gooch and Shingo in recent years.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) and his stuff is deteriorating all the same And the last time he was in the AL, 2006, he put up an ERA of 4.48 and a WHIP of 1.46; what would make you think that 2 years later he's going to improve upon that? He wasn't a good option and may well end up getting DFA'ed by July. I agree that his stuff is going downhill. But a one year deal wouldn't be bad. One year to let some other guys develop and send him packing after 08'.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 04:03 PM) You mean 5 years ago when he was still 29/30 years old and throwing in the upper 90's? It isn't like he's 40 or 42 or anything. A one year deal for a 34 year old wouldn't be the worst thing the Sox did this offseason.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) Just because someone puts up mid 3 ERA for one season in the national league west doesn't mean they can consistently retire AL Central hitters. There's a reason why no one is willing to guarantee him 2 years. Now a days he pitches to contact but his stuff isn't nearly good enough to get away with it. The last 2 seasons he was with the twins he posted a 2-something and a 1-something ERA before moving to the Cubs where he has a 2-something

His ERA last year was 3.40 ish(?) and it would definitely be an upgrade over a few of our bullpen guys. While Aardsma's ERA last year was 6.40.

I mean come on he is decent and reportedly close to signing a 1 year 3.75 mil deal with the Yanks. This would have been a huge upgrade from many of the guys we have now so why was there no talk about bringing him to the Southside?

Wouldn't the fact that (from as long as I can remember) the Cubs haven't played host to a Japanese player have some part in who signs Fuku? I mean the Sox had Shingo and Iguchi in recent years.

QUOTE(CarlosMartinez @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 09:22 AM) I don't remember seeing him quoted as guarenteeing playoffs. He said they are building a championship team, the Tigers made moves to contend with them. The Royals and Cleveland did the same things with their additions. Has the season started, are the Sox 10 games out of first already? No, there are still plenty of moves to be made, they didn't trade away what little minor league they have left to get Miggy and they didn't spend a ridiculous amount of cash to get Tori Hunter. The Marlins have won a couple of World Series without signing the best free agents around or making blockbuster trades and so did the Sox a couple years ago. I'm like everyone else, it would have been nice to grab a headlining star this offseason, but it hasn't happened and may not happen. What has a team of high dollar All-Stars done recently, ask the Yanks, Cubs, or Dodgers. I never said he was quoted on making the playoffs. I'm saying if he expects to contend with Detroit and Cleveland then I expect the playoffs. He is sitting high on the fact that he hasnt done many things with a huge impact. And the Cubs may be high dollar with only a few All-Stars. And the Yanks have made the playoffs for over 10? straight years. My point is that he shouldn't be saying that he expects Detroit to contend with us like we have just won the WS again or something. And as of now they might as well be 10 games out of first. The Tigers didn't make moves to contend with us they made moves to contend with Cleveland.

QUOTE(CarlosMartinez @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 09:05 AM) What are you guys expecting Kenny to say, "We totally laid an egg this offseason. We suck, get your money back on the season tickets you've all bought!" I understand he's coming on a bit strong suggesting their a championship contender and now the Tigers can contend with them by the moves they made, but that's his job. I'd rather have a GM talking up his guys and what they've done than a stiff who sits around and complains about the set of guys he has. And why the surprise with what he says, Kenny has been a very proud, confident guy since the day he took over as GM. It's not in his job to be a hypocrite. If he says that then i expect the playoffs this year.

KW is off of his damn rocker! Article in the Sun-Times quotes him about the Cabrera - Willis to the Tigers saying "'All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us,'' Williams insisted. "We certainly are not going to shy away from the challenge, especially knowing that no matter what your roster looks like on paper, it takes well-rounded teams in major-league baseball to compete for a championship. ''And what we have started this season, I am proud of. Where we're headed is right toward being a well-rounded baseball team in all facets of the game.'' This is a load of bull. He is proud of not signing Hunter and not trading for M Cab? They are in a position to contend with Detroit? And their lineup of Mags, Granderson, Pudge, M Cab, Sheffield, Jaque Jones, and their amazing starters and bullpen? http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...oxint06.article

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 08:07 AM) Let's think about this for a moment. Did KW act too quickly in trading Garland and signing Linebrink? It seems like he now only has half of his plan completed. Would he of traded Garland for an established player if he knew he would wiff on Torii and Miggy? My guess is no. If he knew these events were to unfold, would the Sox have made a decision to rebuild? Does anyone else think KW is half way into a plan that is not feasible anymore? I think KW did act too fast. First and formost any team outside of the NL East could have traded for M Cab and Willis if they wanted to. Secondly he waits until the Winter Meetings are almost over to finally get concerned. Now he will probally be at plan 1Z if Fukudome gets signed elsewhere and Rowand doesn't accept his offer. But he is cheap. His plan was to get a reliever which he did, and upgrade at shortstop, which he also did. But didn't upgrade in the outfield, or with a leadoff hitter all while losing a reliable starting pitcher in Garland. This is just stupid to me. More and more FA's are getting signed everyday and he is making deals to upgrade his bench instead of the starting lineup. Also Dye and Buehrle resigned because they were told of his "plan". If you could call it that. I don't know if it's just me but I don't think he is going full throtle trying to get the guys he wanted to get in the first place. Fire him for a GM that cares about the teams standings. This year we might have a team that wins 75 games with a salary of over 100 mil. It's nonsense to pay players that much to not play well.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:40 PM) Yes they were young. They still were putting up big numbers. It's not like they were 21 years old when they were dealt or let go. Maggs had a few mvp like seasons. Frank being injured those years hurt this team a lot so they could've potentially won or done damage. Fact remains, they didnt and things needed to be changed. Attitudes and everything. And sorry I don't buy the grinder bs. Rowand is a good player. His effort doens't make him better. I think 90% of this board hates Eckstein and he is the exact player for your "grinder" ways. It's useless and impossible to judge. A bunch of Rick Vaughn's only wins you titles in movies. Do we really have to keep going on about this? You have your opinoin and I have mine. I think it's useless to argue over this when its not even reality.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) Maggs took 3 years to get to this point. The Tigers took the gamble because they could. They got him cuz no one else wanted to take the risk at that price. Rowand is not that good. Incredible year this year. Don't argue it but he looks something like a contract year guy. Lets pay him Beltre money and enjoy his 18-25 homers next season. Yea Lee is a great hitter and I would love to have him, but not at the expense of the 05 season. The 05 season which Pods was a huge contributor too. Lee is also one of the worst defensive OF's in baseball. I was at a game one time where he was literally tossing his glove in the air like a seven old teeball player. You are thinking small time. Those 3 were together and couldn't win. We won in 05 because of what a couple of those guys did for us. Money free from Maggs and Lee's trade for Pods and Luis. This is not as big of a deal as it appears. I do wish we could still have Lee or a healthy Maggs but it's out of the question and not worth the conversation. Well, they couldn't win together because they were young for the most part and a ton more unexperienced then they are now. And I'm only thinking WHAT IF. As how good the players are right now the Sox would be talked about way more as a contender. And Rowand I mean come on he goes by the Grinder Rules. He's a hardass and a leader and that is something that the Sox could use right about now. Not to mention that he has proven to be one of the best defensive outfielders in the league next to Hunter and Jones.

After his plan of Hunter and M Cab both failed what will K Will do this so far disappointing offseason? And Ozzie saying they're pursuing Andruw Jones and Kenny saying they are not. Nobody's even on the same damn page.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) I dont think that OF would've won us titles. I would love to have a couple of those pieces now because of our situation but I think the Lee deal was huge for that one season. Maggs maybe he would've been nice to have but I don't blame us for fearing his injury and his insane agent. It took Maggs a few years to get back to this point don't forget. Rowand? Please. He is a good role player but I think having Lee and a healthy Maggs around Sweeney would make people happy. Rowand has always been amazing defensively. And broke out as a top hitter last season. That outfield with the rest of the team we have now would have been amazing. First off because Mags would have been 2nd in MVP voting for us and not our rival. And i don't blame us for fearing his risk of injury but injuries don't stop that many top tier players down. And with the type of hitter Lee has become...I can only imagine though.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:37 PM) The cubs will get Fukodome, and the Indians will get bay. Someone else will get Jones and Rowand. We will get Burke/Crisp or Owens as our CF. This is interesting ...because it's true. The Winter Meetings arent even over yet and there are already so many doubters of next year. Including me. We might even do as bad as last year...