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QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 15, 2010 -> 06:01 PM) I disagree. There was nothing left for Beckham to learn at the MiLB level. He's struggled at the MLB level because that's what players usually do. But I saw that dude in Spring Training 2009 and he was ready then. He was far more ready than, say, Brent Morel is now even though people think he's ready. I disagree, and I don't think you're going to get the same Sale in the rotation that you get as a closer. I feel confident in saying that should Sale remain the Sox closer he will be one of the elite closers in baseball and a perennial All-Star. As a starter he could be very good also, but my God can this dude tear it up out of the bullpen. That's nothing to be scoffed at. And really, I think it will be easier to find more #2/#3 starters than closers that can do what I think Sale will be able to do. I mean this dude's potential as a closer is unreal. It's all about how you personally value a player by position though, but in terms of FA dollars per year, I think it's very high either way. Sale is a goddamn beast as a closer, like it's actually kind of funny watching the other team try to hit against him. You put him in the starting rotation and he may be very good there too, but his horns shrink IMO. Edit: Also, you mentioned that the innings demands are fine because he showed he can handle it. Actually, no he didn't. You can't simulate 180+IP per year of MLB stress for six years prior to free agency. Saying he can handle it is an assumption based on really nothing. And personally I'd be worried about that because I'm not a huge fan of his motion. And I also think that by exposing him as a starter it makes him far more vulnerable to right-handed hitters, but keeping his innings down and keeping him as a closer means less looks for righties, a better fastball, less injury risk, and that motion just works for him even more because now a hitter is facing him with the game on the line for the first time in maybe a month. Not easy. I think the Sox struck gold with Sale the same way they struck gold with Alexei. They thought they were getting a good player and then they got a terrific one. If it ain't broken don't fit, and Sale as the closer is just fine with me. The Sox wouldn't have made that pick without assurances from very high places. The fact that he signed like 25 seconds after being drafted wasn't a coincidence. I don't think they have a problem identifying high-level talent. In fact, I don't think the people on this board have much trouble doing that either just by reading articles about young players and pouring over stats while having never seen them play. I think the problem is specifically what they are targeting and why, and how they aren't spending the money to land some of the guys that they themselves were able to target that they actually should have been targeting. Justin Jones was mentioned above. Morgado was another from that draft. We don't actually have to have these guys turn into anything at all. Just pay them and then trade them at the next year's deadline or over the following offseason if you want. Everyone loves LHP. Agree, and I'll add a fourth category of "Latin America" since IMO it should be an equally major focus. But I think they've made (or appear to have made) improvements in all of those areas except the signing one, where they'll continue to suck for the foreseeable future. Great, Great posts here ^. Well done.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 11, 2010 -> 02:19 PM) This is very true, and from the sound of it, they're very concerned about his mental approach to the game. Why? He proved he can break out of a slump by hitting a ton in the 2nd half of the season. He's should be among those to be least worried about going forward.

Somewhere Kotsay just grounded to 2nd base.

Can this team's braintrust get on the same damn page for once?!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2010 -> 07:45 PM) http://www.csnchicago.com/11/02/10/BBQ-Is-...amp;feedID=6662 Not bad. Nice to see a journalist that does his research. I have to agree. PK is out.

QUOTE (elgonzo4sox @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 11:06 AM) Does anyone know if Chris Rongey is still doing his White Sox Weekly show during the offseason, as in the past? If so, how do we find out when it airs? CBS Radio redid the website for 670 The Score, and they appear to have removed the schedule of shows. They also don't make WSW available as a podcast (but "Who Ya Crappin'" is). Gee, they won't tell us when WSW is on, and they don't make it possible to listen to it as a podcast. Are these clowns really the flagship station of the White Sox for another five years? Thank you for using whither and not wherefore.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 10:03 PM) Exactly. That would be very very disappointing. Why the hell would he be worth that kind of money over Paulie? Martinez is younger and much more versatile than Konerko - (C,1B + switch hitter).

So, with the free agent signing period about to begin, it's time to step up and guess where the big names will go. : Crawford: Angels (6/$130M) Werth: Red Sox (4/$75M) Lee: Texas (5/$110M) Beltre: San Francisco (4/$45M) Konerko: D-backs (3/$35M) Dunn: Nats (2/$30M) Victor Martinez: White Sox (3/$34M)

OK. Good info. Thanks guys.

Both are type A's correct?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 03:36 PM) I know the big money teams don't all need catchers right now (well, maybe the Red Sox), but the more I think about what will actually happen, the more I'm going to bet that some team will overpay him because they want him to be a serious bat in the catcher's role, rather than an adequate bat at another position. Yeah, you're probably right. I just don't see him as a catcher over the next 3 years or so.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 01:42 PM) SI's Heyman asked around a month or so ago and gave his estimate and a couple unnamed exec estimates of the salary that these guys will command. Here's the guess numbers on Martinez. You're below all of them. 7. Victor Martinez, Red Sox C. Superb offensive player (.296, 18, 73) Boston hopes to bring back, though their initial two-year offer was rejected. Some teams don't like him as a catcher, but a few do, including Boston. Executive: $48 million, four years. Agent 1: $60 million, 4 years. Me: $36 million, three years. "(.296, 18, 73)" is not "superb" if he's not a catcher. It's decent or even average as a 1B which is what I'd sign him as and it might even be below average as a DH. 3/$30M is more than a decent offer starting point. The question is what position does he want to play? That's gonna be a factor. Right now the Sox can offer him an everyday role as 1B, C, or DH. Not every team can.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 12:17 PM) I don't think it frees up as much as you think honestly. Martinez made $7.8M last season. That's just over $1M more than AJ. If you offered him say 3/$30M that's still less then what Konerko will command and certainly less then both he and AJ would resign for.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 08:50 AM) I'd love Martinez, but I am guessing he is out of price range. My point was not to resign PK or AJ. That frees up a lot of dollars.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 10:09 AM) Pena seems too risky to commit almost $20M to. His plate discipline has decreased noticeably each season since 2007, as has his line drives. Would rather gamble on a guy with less red flags who won't cost so much Pena is in a position these days much like Beltre last season. He's gonna have to consider a one year deal to work his value back into consideration.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) I would only want V Mart on this team as a primary dh, part time 1st baseman, and 3rd string, emergency catcher only. You see it like I see it. It would provide the actual effective kind of rotating DH concept. Not the train wreck that was last season. He could DH tandem with CQ. He kills LHP.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) Worth noting on this issue. the Red Sox had by far the most bases stolen against them of any team in baseball. 169 bases stolen against them, 2nd worst team was the Angels at 133. They threw out 20% of base stealers, good for 29th out of 30 teams (only the Yankees were worse). I was thinking more of Martinez replacing PK at first and also DH. At the most maybe part timing it behind the dish. The last thing this team needs is a bigger problem defending the running game.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 01:35 PM) You wrote two sentences. One said emotion has nothing to do with playing baseball effectively. The second one said emotion effects playing baseball effectively. What I said was emotion doesn't help you (effective performance). It hurts your performance. (dertrimental).

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 01:13 PM) In the first sentence you said emotion has nothing to do with effective performance on a baseball field. In the second sentence you said it's detrimental to on-field performance. Yeah, and? The two statements support each other. There is no contradiction.

Martinez would supply a quality LH/RH bat with power and average. He could replace Konerko at 1B and/or even replace AJ behind the plate.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 12:56 PM) You just contradicted yourself. How?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 10:37 AM) This empty argument again? Players are human beings. Of course emotions effect them. That said, AJ understands the game at a level most players don't, and finds the edge in every situation. That talent is what makes him skilled with the pitching staff handling and game calling. That has a lot of value at the catching position. And it seemed like his work against base stealers in 2010 improved, from what I saw. But he's still struggling with that. Offensively, he's below average. I too hope they can get him for 1 year $3-4M, with a team option for a 2nd year. I think they might actually be able to pull that off. Emotion has absolutely zero to do with effective on field performance in baseball. In fact, it's a detriment to hitting, pitching and fielding.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 09:02 PM) What signs? I'd like Morel to start, but I don't see it. Help me. Ozzie has literally been quoted saying as much. It's Morel's job to lose.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 05:53 PM) Posey did have some very good mentoring, but he is a Joe Mauer-esque young phenom. Kinda hard to compare that to AJP. However AJ does handle a pitching staff quite well but without his offensive production he become a bench guy to me. Frankly I am willing to cut ties with him based on cost. Kenny may agree with you. AJ has heard nothing close to any kind of offer from the Sox as of yet...

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 08:39 PM) Without him its an emotionless team Emotion has nothing to do with baseball.