almagest

You know, I was thinking "oh Kwan has to be have way better hitting metrics than Madrigal", but they're very, very similar. Kwan just maximizes this profile because he doesn't chase, which means he takes a lot of walks and makes good swing decisions, meaning his subpar exit velocity doesn't matter as much - Kwan is 94th percentile in xBA, Madrigal is way lower. Fixing Madrigal could be as simple as getting him to not swing at trash, but if it were that easy I'd imagine the Cubs would've done it.

It was a long, hard road to get to this level of futility, and drafting duds like Madrigal at the top of the first round was a big part of it.

Wow you mean every single one of these guys won't be very good and on their roster playing different positions? You mean they have a logjam of 1B/DH types and over hyped guys/guys who didn't develop properly? So there's no reinforcements for guys who struggle or leave on their MLB roster? Boy, that's a shame.

That’s fair, but the Sox didn’t want to take that chance apparently. Also, not sure how the package would change with a rebound year (though still not 2022 level), but with close to 2/3rds of a season less control.

Cease did not pitch like a TOR starter in 2023 and he only really showed that potential in 2022, so no matter how much fans or the White Sox valued him as one, other teams didn't. The Sox got roughly fair value for him - the question now is if they picked the right prospects to fill that value.

Badly coached teams beat themselves

That is 100% not going to happen by 2026.

That is a TERRIBLE trade. Good on the Reds for turning a bust into a good #3 starter

"Severe kidney infection"? Yeesh. No thanks. Kidney issues are very serious and could have a big effect on quality of life going forward, and Philly must be concerned about that if they'd DFA him with arb years left after trading for him.

Josh Bell was as bad as, if not worse than Vaughn last year. He's 32 and hasn't been good since 2022. There's no upside here. Justin Turner is 40 and only played first base regularly after he was traded to Boston. I'm not counting on a 40 year old to not fall off a cliff, especially on this team, and double especially when the "upside" is 1.5 bWAR. Mark Canha is 36 and was basically the same offensively as Vaughn. He is not an upgrade, especially at his age. Rizzo is 35, was worse than Vaughn, and couldn't stay on the field for the last 2 years. He's not an upgrade on anyone at this point in his career. Solano is 37 and only played in 96 games last year. He's probably not a full time player anymore, and he's never been a full time first baseman. At best, you'd still need someone else there for more than half the time, and at worst he falls off a cliff due to his age. Abraham Toro has only played at first in 15 of his 311 career games, and he was a worse hitter than Vaughn last year. I don't care how much cheaper he might be, he'd absolutely be a downgrade especially at a position he barely plays. He's probably the worst option in a field of bad options. Carlos Santana is the only one with solid production, but he's also going to be 39 years old when the season starts. It's likely he falls off a cliff, and then you're paying a guy who hits like Vaughn or worse as much as or more than you'd pay Vaughn. No thanks. Yeah, I'll stand by what I said.

If we can't afford $6 million there are exactly zero 1B free agents worth signing over Vaughn out there. At best, you'll save a little money signing an older, declining, left-handed Vaughn-like guy with zero potential upside. Trading a premium asset like Crochet for a 1B would be malpractice, so you're left with a smaller trade for a blocked 1B in another org (if one even exists), bringing Elko up, or retaining Vaughn.

So should they not hire guys to turn mediocre to terrible areas into potential strengths?

The new bench coach was responsible for the Brewers catchers becoming so good at pitch framing. https://brewerfanatic.com/news-rumors/milwaukee-brewers/walker-mckinven-could-be-the-brewers-most-impactful-offseason-coaching-loss-r2814/

Meaning if he's good they can trade him for something like they got for DeJong (solid low level relief prospect), or better. If he's bad they just release him.

I remember Konerko asking how many years in Vaughn was, and after he answered Konerko said something like "well, now or never I guess" and I just started laughing.

That's true, so you don't really have much room for these guys anyway even without Slater. They should try to stash these guys at AAA instead of the Mark Paytons of the world unless/until they get rid of Beni and Robert. They must really think Colas is worthless. They'd be better off swapping him for one of these roster crunch guys than keeping him then.

Meh. He's a flyer type to get you the ammo to acquire guys you have faith in to develop. I'm fine with that. If Slater sucks they'll just get rid of him. The Sox could also pair a 40 man crunch guy with Slater as their RF platoon or as a 4th OF.

I guess we'll find out how much of that was Getz's incompetence, and how much was Hahn's. Hopefully it was more of the latter than the former - I'm encouraged by the hires Getz has made, and he seems to be getting buy-in from some good people. This is still the White Sox, though.

I don't disagree with that - I'd even more rather have the return from the Crochet trade, but these are the kinds of guys you try to cycle through to see if you hit paydirt.

Oh no I was wrong! It only takes one!

Brennan Davis was a consensus top 20 prospect in 2022 but his numbers never really backed up the hype plus he's been injured a lot, so he fell off quickly. He can get on base and hit for power, though. You'd need to think you can develop him quickly to take a shot, as he'd require a trade most likely. Don't see the Cubs out-righting him. Valera is in the same boat - lots of promise, lots of injuries derailing him. Same for Mata, but I think the Red Sox will resign him

Be careful, I hear if you say the "K-word" three times that summons him

The hope I have is that Getz is bringing what appear to be talented people here to help rectify the awful position player development record the Sox have. They may be better off going for a large quantity of lower level promise instead of top 100 guys on the cusp, especially because those top 100 guys just aren't available it seems, unless they're in free fall like Vargas. Hopefully the Sox learn from that mistake.

The argument for Vaughn is his pedigree, complete mishandling by Hahn and to see if their new hitting director can help him unlock more power and patience. The ship has probably already sailed for him, but that is why you'd take a chance on him for 1 year/$6 mil. Like I said, if you're really worried about payroll then you just give Elko a shot, or maybe see what's available after the 40 man roster crunch settles. Bring Abreu in on a 1 day contract to retire as a White Sox player, or add him to the coaching staff or as a special assistant. His playing days are over.

Didn't you and others spend most of the season complaining about how the Sox wouldn't have lost so many games if they didn't make these exact kinds of moves, for players with extreme negative value? But now you're ok with losing that many because the Sox can save 5.25 million by signing an ancient Jose Abreu, who might rebound from a stretch where he was the least valuable player in baseball, solely because he's hitting a couple dingers against low level competition in PR? I don't really care if Vaughn stays or goes, but if there's a binary option only I'm taking Vaughn over Abreu 100% of the time. If we're being realistic, then I'd just give Elko a shot for league minimum, because while he might be awful, the FA options in the Sox range are also all awful and he's likely still gonna be better than Abreu.