jenksycat

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 12:25 PM) With the price of position players being absolute crap on the trade market this year, I wouldn't be opposed to the Sox sitting on both of them, and even looking to see if there are any of those types of bargains out there for when the market picks back up. I also fully expect them to be searching for the next Swarzak and Kahnle in the bargain bins. Yep, the only signings this off season should be 1 year "fix 'em" deals on pitchers that we can flip at the deadline.

Despite the idiotic calls to "be VERY active in the free agent market" they will be bad next year. Gio/Kopech/Eloy possibly getting a taste of the bigs in 2018. 2019 those guys are coming up with the next wave getting a taste at the end of 2019. 2020 you hopefully have a Rodon/Lopez/Kopech/Gio rotation, a Eloy/Roberts outfield & more kids coming up throughout the season competing for a playoff spot. Signing long term free agents this offseason would be the stupidest move they could possibly do. The point is to have payroll flexibility once the young core is in place so you see what holes are still left. Not to sign 30 year old free agents so we win 74 games instead of 69 next year. Some of your concepts of what a 'rebuild' is are truly baffling.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Aug 11, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) We don't want to be the top farm system anymore. What we want is to be 5-10 and have our top guys in Chicago and playing well. While we sucked most of the year beyond belief having the top system got us through stage one. Now we are at the point of seeing some of these guys blossom. If we play our cards right with these next two top picks, we should have a top 5 team in baseball and a top 10 system for years to come. We've literally had a "top farm system" for about 2-3 months. Some of the expectations you guys have for how fast the turnaround time is going to be are crazy.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Aug 10, 2017 -> 11:21 PM) His son likes it. Only the little guy is his kid right?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 9, 2017 -> 08:26 AM) Does anyone actually care about the games or celebrate good games by the players ? Guess I am looking for more of a Future Sox type of atmosphere where people are excited about the youth doing good. I know at this time it's more important for the recent acquisitions to do well in the minors however why is it that every at bat by Moncada was followed in the minor league threads and now that he is up no one seems to care anymore ? I want all of the players who will be on the 2020 team to do well and I also want them to lose every single game for the rest of the season. You can cheer for both of those things

Dang wish I woulda bought tickets when it was speculation-but-likely-true

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 7, 2017 -> 03:28 PM) That's the thing, there are more than likely 2 top 5 in the draft players still coming to this organization. Another year or two, and it will also become more clear who may make it and who most likely won't, so they will know what they have to add in free agency. I just hope half these guys are anywhere near as good as they are supposedly capable of being. Then the Sox will be cooking with gas. '18/'19 drafts will be huge to see how big the window is (assuming a good chunk of the current prospects hit). Hopefully they're competing for playoffs by 2020 and the '18/'19 drafted guys are ready '21/'22 and they have sustained success for multiple years. Maybe even dare I dream, playoffs for TWO years in a row???!?!!?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 7, 2017 -> 12:12 PM) They're farther along in their development than he is. You're talking about a guy who has never thrown more than 65 innings in a season until this year. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, I'm saying I don't think he would view it the same way.

I don't know how well Kopech will end up taking Lopez + Giolito getting the call before him. He doesn't strike me as the type to be chill about that

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 6, 2017 -> 09:26 AM) Probably not likely with Mr. Boras representing Carlos. Yep 0 chance, especially coming off a lost year. Hopefully he turns the corner next year and hits ace level for what should hopefully be playoff teams in 2020/21 then leaves for some dumb team to give him 200 million.

Where is ptac to pull us/push us off the ledge.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 03:22 PM) Greg, remember Josh Fields? He came up as a rookie in 2007 in what was a lost year for the Sox and slugged 23 homers in 100 games. Over 600 plate appearances, that would have been around 33 homers. It was a slightly better offensive environment 10 years ago, but he came with similar red flags - not a ton of walks, higher strikeout rate, a low average, mediocre defense, not much speed. He ended up becoming irrelevant very quickly because he couldn't make the adjustments necessary as well as some issues dealing with the environment of a big league clubhouse. Hell, Chris Carter for the Brewers (and former Sox farm hand) led the National League in home runs last year. The Brewers didn't even offer him a contract this past winter because his flaws are so pronounced. Point being, a counting number might be "sexy" but it could be very, very empty. If a slap hitter puts up a .300 average, that's good! But let's add context - he doesn't walk, he doesn't hit for power, and doesn't steal bases, and he doesn't play the field very well. So we're looking at a guy who is putting up a .300/.330/.370 line. That kind of player has value, but it's better served as a bench piece. You get a flawed player who still adds value to the team. Everything needs context. Simply saying "if x-player hits y homers, people will be celebrating" is absolutely wrong. If said player does it with a good average, good plate discipline, and good defense, then absolutely, they will be singing praise. If it's a 30 homer season with a low average, not many walks, a ton of strikeouts, mediocre defense, and no discernible speed on the basepaths, people are going to be very cautious moving forward with that player. Gotta remember Greg lives in like a 2-3 week fandom window. Davidson hit a walk off dinger yesterday and therefore is one the of the Sox greats and should be treated as such. Moncada is hitting .100 for the last couple weeks and is therefore a bust.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) lol, everyone has no problem spending someone else's money, but if they want to act like a business man, look out.... A businessman would operate a business to run well & make money. A businessman would not be surprised if a s***ty product/service stopped making money and would do things to fix it or sell the company. The leaked financials a couple years back from the "we're so poor though!!" owners showed that they still print money regardless. This team was purchased for 19 million and is worth over 600 million now and has countless sweetheart tax deals, they have no business crying poor. You can't have it both ways. You can't shrug your shoulders and say that your fans don't support the team so you can't do anything to fix it while still taking in millions of dollars in profit. Either: own up and say profits are the only thing that matters & screw the team/fans we don't care OR try to fix your product and bring the fans back in. I will never side with a billionaire ownership complaining about fan support while he makes millions in profits, screws taxpayers, & puts out a s***ty product.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) And I would argue that a good portion of that is because the ownership group has limited their options because of a fear of their own fan base. They literally had to wait years before the Cubs made rebuilding plausible with their fan base before they could do it. I mean basically we got the rebuild because of our little brother syndrome for the Cubs. Eh you sound like KW, that's an excuse. Even the s***ty small market teams print money so I don't buy the "poor owner" line. All these owners should be relatively smart businessmen, if you provide a s***ty product/service you can't expect it to also make money. Fix your product. And if you as a billionaire owner lose a couple million in the process then so be it. If that's going to cripple you, then you shouldn't own a professional sports team. It doesn't require 100 million to have a competent scouting/instructional staff so you can draft and develop your own players which is the only way to have a competitive team.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 11:15 AM) Every team needs some kind of sustained winning to build on. The Indians were brought up earlier, in the 90's they had that crazy sell out streak. Now, after 15 years of suck (and other elements that have hurt that city) things are not in a good place. My point is you at least need to give a fan base that window of "good" before you judge them when the team is bad. The Sox don't have that. If they had a 3-4 year stretch of competitive, playoff baseball, then got bad...I think things would be a different. One playoff apperence in 10 years? Haven't had a playoff win since 2005? This franchise quite frankly deserves NOTHING from us. Hey cmon the Sox won a playoff game in 2008. You mean that 1 win didn't buy the franchise 10 years of support while they sucked?

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 09:37 PM) i don't see it as a "new" blueprint, just one others have tried with less valuable and volume of assets. Yeah the Sox were in a position I don't really recall any other rebuilding team in: multiple high-end assets (both elite talent + insanely cheap contracts) and completely rebuilt the farm system in

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:42 PM) The Sox have made the playoffs 5 times in 58 years. You aren't getting anywhere with that stat. The fans don't have much entertainment at the game or outside of the stadium. People go to the games and then have to go home. So unless they give fans a reason to come to the park outside of the game of baseball, they better win. It's as simple as that. They don't need to win every year but once every 12 year average of making the playoffs will not bring fans to the park with nothing to do except watch the team play. I go to games every year no matter what but I can't fault the typical fan for not going to the south side to watch and then go home. So are we still debating or did we just become best friends? You seem to be agreeing with me. QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:43 PM) I am willing to bet most Sox fans don't know the radio station the Sox play on. You don't think that's a negative for the organization? I no longer understand what point you're trying to make against mine.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:23 PM) It hurts JR's business to help the Cubs win. It's as simple as that. However as you can see he did come to the same conclusion you did. Take the better deal. It will still hurt his business. There are articles every about what trades were the best and worst between the teams. This trades will be discussed for decades if it helps the Cubs to win another world series. That's the entire argument here. I'm saying it doesn't impact it nearly as much as people are claiming. The type of Sox fan that's going to start watching/cheering for the Cubs because they're good now was not a huge revenue producer for the Sox anyway. The Sox compete with themselves for revenue: If they have a s***ty team, people don't show up or watch. If they have a good team, people show up and watch. The Cubs don't have a big impact on that overall number.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:20 PM) Not at all. If the Sox start winning for more than once or twice a decade over a 50 year period, they too can get back on the level of the Cubs. As they've done it before. The Cubs built their brand on fun experience outside the park and not on winning. The White Sox brand is built around winning. That's why I said if they would of had a four or five year run of success in the 80's, 90's 2000's or 2010's, they could have bridged the gap. Fine, if the Sox build a 50 year dynasty and open a ballpark in a neighborhood people want to visit for "the experience" then yes, they can take over Chicago from the Cubs. Will that ever happen in anyone here's lifetime? No, no chance.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 05:00 PM) The Sox were once top dogs in Chicago. You know why they aren't right now? Because the cubs had much better advertising and WGN. Whether you want to believe it or not, these things matter. So you're basically confirming exactly what I said then?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:40 PM) You are way off base here. He competes with the Cubs for the almighty dollar. Ad revenues, TV/radio broadcasts etc. While the team isn't in direct competition for games and playoffs, the owners are certainly in competition for Chicago. People keep using this as an argument and I don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see them competing in that way. Majority of fans are: Cubs fans or Sox fans. The % of people that are "I'm going to whichever team is doing well" is probably pennies in the grand scheme of revenue. The Sox have been and will continue to be "2nd" due to a variety of hostorical factors out of the teams control (neighborhood, old school national broadcast stuff, etc.) and no single trade or a couple bad years for the Cubs is going to change any of that. My entire 'meathead' argument is solely based on not wanting to trade with them. Cheer against the Cubs all you want, but if the scouts & FO you trusted to be in charge of the team tell you "This trade with the Cubs is our best offer and will make the team better" you fuggin do it and none of the stupid "but I hate them Cubbies!!!" arguments should be anywhere near that decision.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 11:27 AM) The dumb fake rivalry? Living in denial is never a good thing. There is ALWAYS a rivalry between teams in the same city and teams in close proximity of one another. Cubs fans hate the Sox and Sox fans hate the Cubs, the quicker people with your view accept this, the quicker you guys can move on. Again, to some people and from what overhear seems to be the type of fan who couldn't name more than 3 players on their team. I couldn't care less and don't know many people who are super passionate about it any more.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) So far this rebuild has been met with very good will. If JR thought that there could be enough of a fan revolt to change that, I could see it becoming a consideration. What do you think the typical fan reaction would be if it was perceived that the Sox helped the Cubs win the World Series? Again I'm probably giving too much credit, but "who cares" would be my response. The dumb fake rivalry with the Cubs ended on 10/26/2005 for me because it didn't matter any more, the only reason it should have ever mattered is that both teams were garbage for 80+ years and the only thing the fans had was the 2 teams playing each other. And it should be even more dead after 2016. If the Cubs have the best offer you take that offer, I don't care if it helps them win. I'd care more if we traded to Cleveland and they spent the next 5 years beating the Sox.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) Reading the game threads the last couple of days, along with social media, you can absolutely tell why JR would fear a fan backlash from trading with the Cubs. The obsession is real for many. To what point though? Is some meathead fan going to stop watching the Sox now that they traded Q to the Cubs? Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, but that seems like nonsense to me.

Billionaire owner of the team with the same mindset as a meathead fan.