Y2Jimmy0

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) But if you see this team going nowhere, you are basically wasting a year of realigning the strategy of your team. It's distracting and not really a compelling way to lead a team to the playoffs as fast as possible. Absolutely. Trading guys for less than they are worth and dumping them just because makes you further away from the playoffs though IMO. Obviously we have no idea what wa soffered though.

QUOTE (shakes @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) I'm sorry, but this is living in absolute fantasyland. This is the same rationalizing we see every year that has lead to the White Sox being 62 games under .500 the last three seasons, with another season headed down that same path. And frankly, the positive regressions you highlight do not nearly make up the difference for the Sox making the playoffs. And that is ignoring the fact that this is likely the player Frazier is, he isn't doing anything that is really outside his career norms, and Sale, Q, Eaton, Melky, Jones are all healthy and have years towards the high end of their career production, and it is very unlikely we see the recent contributions Gonzalez and Sheilds are giving the Sox. As far as Rodon goes, well the book is absolutely out on him, but the rushed promotions do not seem to be helping him and so far Fulmer is looking like he needs more development to even contribute as a reliable bullpen arm. Which brings up another argument against contention, the Sox just traded their second most reliable bullpen arm for what is widely considered a 4th outfielder who will be thrust immediately into a starting role. All of this is complicated by the fact that every team has injuries and regressions and the Sox have a farm system that produces no depth and ready made replacements which is a big reason the team fades down the stretch every year, and is falling into that patter yet again. Believing the Sox will enter the big boy market and sell assets, who are worth less this time next year, and spend wildly back into contention because the money will be off the books is just ignoring everything about their history and how they operate. Their is no defensible position for contention next year. The Sox are closer to the Reds than they are the Red Sox as an organization. Their really is nothing they do well at this point top to bottom. I can't think of a single thing. They have developed two star pitchers in the last six years and appear content to just throw away their primes. This is a real nadir as a Sox fan. I don't think their assets are worth less this time next year. They can get a similar package to what was offered for Sale and Q at that time. Frazier and Melky will be free agents. Teams have been overpaying for going to be free agents and Sox would also have comp pick option if CBA stays similar.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 08:19 AM) I'm bored too -- I get it, I really do. But if you take a step back and look at the situation and the options, the roster is built to push through 2017. I have no doubt that Hahn considered changing that course after his "mired in mediocrity" statement, but I have to assume that teams were not willing to pay up. Rather than make a bad deal simply for the sake of changing something, there's an argument to be made to let things play out. I'm sure he could have moved some relievers and role players, but if the returns aren't meaningful, there's value in retaining the flexibility of competing in 2017 into this offseason, where I have no doubt that he'll try to see what he can get out of Sale/Quintana again. For those asking "what can possibly be done to improve the team's chances in 2017," it starts with Abreu being Abreu, Frazier being Frazier, and Rodon finally turning into Rodon. Those guys have been bad, but there doesn't appear to be any physical reason, and the reality is just that sometimes guys have bad years. Remember when David Ortiz was cooked? Remember when Carlos Beltran was useless? Remember when it was ridiculous to acquire John Lackey? There are a ton of examples of teams giving up on good players only to see them flourish later, often elsewhere. We're all real good at coming up with convenient ad hoc explanations like "toxic clubhouse" or "new training program" or "obvious contract year effort" and other unsubstantiated, random crap, but when we do that, we're ignoring the fact that baseball is a competition where two really good players are doing everything they can to stop the other from succeeding, and no matter how much talent there is, one of them ALWAYS has to lose. Team sports aren't just coming in and pushing buttons -- sometimes you simply get beat. If any those players simply did what was reasonably expected, we'd probably be a couple games over .500. If ALL of them simply did what they were reasonably expected, we'd be in the thick of the playoff hunt. Is the consistent disappointment of the team a systemic problem of the organization? Maybe. But if you're Rick Hahn, you're not going to fire yourself. You're going to do what ALL of us do every day: you're going to assume you're capable of doing your job, and make the best decision you can given the hand in front of you. It's totally fair to be disappointed and upset -- I am too. But the decision to hold onto controllable assets into this offseason is absolutely a defensible decision, even if it's boring and feels bad. It very well may turn out to be the wrong one (assuming the offers on the table were what we think), and you certainly DON'T have to like it or agree with it, but it's a far cry from obvious incompetence. In case anyone doesn't know about it, this is an awesome resource for when you want to start taking stock of the offseason: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ9...pub?output=html Note the contracts that come off the books after next season: Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Gonzalez. If we fail next year, all those guys will be hot deadline chips. Shields and Robertson will each have ~1.5yr/~$15m remaining, and will also be good chips if they're pitching well. Jones and Jennings will still have multiple years of control remaining. Sale and Quintana will be essentially JUST as valuable, but the team will be in a clearer position to sell. And that's IF we fail. Those aforementioned bouncebacks could get us most of the way to contention, and I'm assuming Avisail Garcia will FINALLY be non-tendered, so we may just have a shot. The offseason shopping list is clear and achievable: catcher, first base/DH, corner OF. This is an awesome post and sum up my feelings nicely. We are usually pretty lockstep though so I'm not surprised. The White Sox will be heading to the Winter Meetings with the 2 best pitchers available (Sale, Q) and will have Frazier, Lawrie, Melky, and Gonzalez as free agents. The White Sox will be a trading post. But what if they take one more run at it? What if they try to sign Adam Lind to a 1-2 year deal to DH. What if they find a way to acquire Puig somehow? That doesn't stop you from selling of Frazier, Melky etc at the deadline if it fails again. IT also doesn't stop you from getting a similar package to what is being offered right now for Sale and Q. As much as people would hate this strategy, if you are Rick Hahn, I understand taking one more shot. It requires cash though and it also requires not giving up any more draft picks. This offseason will be extremely interesting one way or another.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 08:40 AM) Obviously I have never seen this kid, but the profile and reports scream #2 hitter to me. I think he may hit #9 but yeah it makes sense.

Could make the argument to acquire Puig, add a C, and sign Adam Lind to DH. Probably in a similar spot to this season though. 1. Eaton CF 2. Cabrera LF 3. Abreu 1B 4. Lind DH 5. Frazier 3B 6. Puig RF 7. Lawrie 2B 8. Catcher 9. Anderson SS

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:56 PM) Shields will get through. Maybe Melky. Robertson likely wouldn't. hasn't puig been hurt a lot, which might explain his struggles? Thing about waivers is that you can deal guys to the team that claims them.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:06 PM) From Whitesoxdave FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox I would not have made that deal. Benintendi is going to be awesome but that's light. I would have done Benintendi, Devers, and Trey Ball though

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:49 PM) If that is the case, then why wasn't anyone moved today? I get the rationale on not moving Q or Sale. Not moving Robertson, Frazier, Shields, Cabrera, or anyone else makes zero sense. I don't buy that JR is ready to rebuild. Actions speak louder than words. Maybe other teams think those guys are as bad as people in the gamethreads do.

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:29 PM) It's always interesting to step outside the Chicago media to see how other people view the Sox. It's pretty darn obvious that JR has issued a no rebuilding mandate. Today would have been the perfect day to start a teardown. The lack of trade activity shows that this FO and ownership has absolutely no interest in a rebuild. Scot Gregor and Matt Spiegel both said differently today. Said JR is more ready than ever.

I do think that Shields, Robertson, and Morneau can be moved in August. I truly believe that they are ready to sell off too. I think they roll into the winter meetings with Sale and Quintana being the #1 and #2 pitchers available. They'll also have Gonzalez, Lawrie, Melky, and Frazier on 1 year deals. They could really be a destination for trades at the Winter Meetings.

Rumors are that Boston doesn't want to move Moncada or Benintendi. Hahn probably hung up on them if that's the case.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 10:17 PM) If we can get Benintendi for Q, I'll be estatic. He better be the minimum that they get. Q is 6th in fWAR in baseball for pitchers since 2013. He's awesome and locked up for 4 seasons. He costs Benintendi +

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 09:46 PM) Well, except for the fact that they suck ass with them...yes, they need to hit big if they do move them, but they aren't exactly lighting the world on fire with them. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. He was advocating that they take less and compromise. f*** that.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:40 PM) Probably. But if they really wanted to get rid of him they would have to compromise which I must say sounds better than keeping both going into the offseason. Hahn trying to keep his job trading for other various bandaids. This is a really bad post. There is no compromise. THey need a franchise altering haul for Sale and Quintana or it's not worth trading them. Not really a debate. Not sure what is so hard to understand about it either.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 05:56 PM) Reasonable looking prospect too. If Gonzalez and Shields are still here Tuesday we riot. There's no reason to trade Gonzalez unless they get something of value

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) Easy answer, he doesn't. Horrible job as a GM, as both big league team and farm system suck. His last 3 drafts have been better than pretty much any draft under Kenny Williams from like 2003-2009 though.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) Dodgers looking at Archer today. They obviously want a top shelf pitcher. Work out a deal, please. Sox scouts are apparently at that game. Can't figure out why though. Keuchel getting rocked today already. Another team who could use a pitcher. The Dodgers don't have enough positional talent to acquire Sale.

I'm sure the Sox think he has the ability to possibly start in CF. Duke didn't have much value. This is fine.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) What about 50 of your closest relatives and friends? IMO many middle class people are walking on eggshells trying to stay afloat. I got paid under Obama.

I went to camp today. Kevin White is a freakshow. Looks as advertised. Tweets from camp in my twitter timeline: @JamesFox917 if interested.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 12:39 AM) To summarize the Sox trade deadline talks: There isn't one team that wants any player we have other than Sale and Quintana, and there are no serious talks involving either one of them. Get ready for a slow slog until the end of another disappointing season. This is just flat out not true.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 12:26 AM) Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m3 minutes ago The Dodgers, like Boston, has the prospect firepower to get a Chris Sale deal completed -- but they would need to ante up to make it happen. Who are the position players? Bellinger and Verdugo? I'll pass on that. I'd love Urias but trading Sale for a package centered around pitching doesn't make sense

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 12:30 AM) I'm dying to hear how anyone can justify a strikeout machine like Micker Adolfo being worth anything at all at this point, let alone a top 10 prospect for an MLB organization. Yes, "he's young." But he's striking out to a 37% clip to the October, 2016 class of Jewel grocery baggers in Single A. He's completely made of glass. And the dumbest pile of short-bus types in this front office once again went for batting practice power in this so-called "prospect" when they wasted good money on him. That said, him being stupidly placed in Single A, where he is as out of his depth as I would be in a doctoral-lever astrophysics class is clearly not helping him. It isn't helping his team mates. And it isn't helping this organization. So at least half of my irritation at his utter failure should be directed @ the front office, I suppose. Don't say short bus types. Stop being an asshole.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:42 PM) Rea left his start today with an injury, maybe the Marlins come crawling back on Gonzalez. They have literally no prospects that are even worth trading Gonzalez for.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 37s37 seconds ago Blanketing of #RedSox’s system by #WhiteSox was first mentioned by @pgammo. Some believe CWS simply laying groundwork for off-season trade. 0 retweets 0 likes