Y2Jimmy0

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 6, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) Agree. I think from DD comments, Sale was definitely not for sale. I also think he will not be "tradeable" in the winter as well unless he has another meltdown. Not sure about Q but I think he will be back next year as well. I can see them flipping Melky or Frazier for someone comparable to appear they are involved. It was also stated that Moncada is off limits. They can f*** right off then. People in the media and even Sox fans on this site act like it's not the Sox that have the leverage. Sale and Quintana are the assets. It's not the other way around. I don't understand this thinking that they purposely asked for too much. Any of the packages that were traded at the deadline aren't even close to enough for Sale or Quintana. It's absurd. Sale is owed $39 million over next 3 years. Quintana is owed $40 million over the next 4 and yet there are some on this site (Yes, Baron I'm referring to you) that want to trade for $0.75 on the $1.00 just because they want change. It's a really incredibly stupid thought process.

Hahn was on with Levine and Esposito today. Tons of lawyer talk as always but a couple of things More suitors for their players in offseason Players on ML rosters available as well as 2016 draft picks Great deal of progress in INTL Scouting Praised Paddy and Hostetler and talked about the recent draft picks while noting the SSS As good as anyone at developing pitching Acknowledged that they were behind the 8 ball with developing position players but noted that they made some changes to correct this a few years back Mentioned guys like: Semien, Trayce, Micah, Phegley who aren't playing for them but allowed them to acquire guys that "could help" them from other organizations Deferred all questions about Robin and the staff to the offseason but it's pretty clear that he won't be back

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) I stand by my comment that he's brilliant. He got no positive coverage because he's Republican IMO. The media did not want to create a new Obama candidate, somebody to take the country by storm. It was Hillary's turn in the media's eyes and they want eight years of Hillary. He's not a nutjob. You can't judge a guy off a few sound bites. No. He got no positive coverage because he's a legit crazy person.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 10:16 PM) Too early to say Hansen is the Sox top pitching prospect? We should probably wait but I think he's firmly a top 100 guy at this time next year and the #1 or #2 prospect in the system.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Aug 5, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Hey! let's talk something positive about this team --- is it just me or are the giveaways really great this year? Feels like they've stepped up their game from the t-shirt/bobblehead days and are really giving away some cool, practical items. The pullover this weekend? Then the nice looking water bottle Sunday. They are doing a coffee mug a few weeks from now. The White Sox - Socks. White Sox Zubaz. Saw a SICK Blackhawks/Sox scarf that makes me even consider going to the Phillies game on a Tuesday night. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/schedule/p...ns.jsp?c_id=cws I'll honestly say that I am almost ready to go to some games just for the giveaways - which is the point of the promotion. Maybe bad that they are turning into a minor league team where giveaways and shticks are what are driving my interest, but hey, so be it. Maybe to make this more into a thread -- what has been your favorite thus far this year? Or which are you looking forward to the most? Myself personally? That scarf looks awesome. I want the Sox socks. The Hawaiian shirt was great. Also, maybe I never paid attention in the past, but they've done a great job of having multiple sizes available so you aren't just walking away with an XXL. I'm getting mediums of everything. I usually try to go on most bobblehead days and nights but there haven't been as many this year

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) The point is Anderson and Saladino cant both be starters....at that ops, so they need yet another player. Saladino isn't a starter. He's a utility guy.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) Again, not the same. If Anderson showed the ability to walk at a 10% rate in the high minors like Bogearts did then this would indeed be a stupid overreaction thread. But as it stands Bogearts' worst walk% as a pro was still better than Anderson's best. So for those in the no worry crowd...can someone show me some players who maintained long careers with a walk % below 6 and didn't rely on power? Maybe it's more than I think, that's an honest question. I'm not in the no worry crowd. I'm in the we need to wait longer category

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 10:53 AM) No way in hell. He'd want to bring in ALL his own staff/coaches. That doesn't play around these parts. Sox only hire desperate people. ------------ I predict Sale has a meltdown at some point calling somebody a naughty word again which will "force" the Sox to trade him (can't abide by insubordination). They will trade him for a youngish position player and a couple of prospects. Add a couple replacement FAs and be "all in" for 2017. They will not trade him for a youngish position player and a couple of prospects unless it's like Mookie Betts, Moncada, and Denintendi

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) I DOUBT it, but any chance we would see Gardenhire? Not saying whether he would be good or a disaster. But wondering if experience and availability would factor in to the FO's decision? Got a feeling that the clubhouse may be gettimg tired of having sandlot managers I hope not. I'd rather have almost anyone than Gardenhire. He's a baseball dinosaur.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 09:28 AM) Recap posted. Adolfo getting warm. Banks getting it done. .929 OPS for Adolfo over his last 10. Nice.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 09:03 AM) Grasu has apparently looked really really good too. Would be nice if some of these young olinemen pan out and can gel with Long. Would be nice to have a younger line, where you should see some continuity and consistency over the years. Yep OL is super young. Massie, Long, Grasu, Whitehair, and Leno

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) The team's #1 hitting prospect and got off to a hot start to cause excitement...but now the warts are really starting to show. I'm sure I'll get some backlash from posters about how young he is and its too early, but there is obviously a really serious issue in his batting approach that isn't just going to go away. I mean, we are talking about a guy who had a sub 5% walk rate in nearly 700 AB's across AA and AAA. So this isn't him adjusting to major league pitching, this is how he plays the game of baseball. Now, thankfully he's a SS who possess an elite speed tool so he doesn't have to be a .300 hitter to be useful, but I'm curious to see where expectations are at this point after getting a look at him. Personally I see him as our everyday SS down the line, but not a reliable top of the order bat like Robin is trying to make him into now. I'll say something like .250/.290/.400 with 30 steals and an above average defender at short....good player to have on the team, but as literally our only hitting prospect (before the '16 draft) worth anything I think it's a key reminder of how sad of shape we really are in He's probably a 7-9 hitter on a really good team. Posts similar to this one and others about Rodon and Fulmer though continue to tell me that this fan base isn't ready for a rebuild. People think that everyone is Chris Sale. This place will be rough during a rebuild

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:06 AM) I forgot to look that up, any tidbits from camp yesterday? Hot has hell? White is as advertised. Cody Whitehair is probably the starter at LG. Young and Houston both appear to be in great shape and dominated 1 on 1 drills. Floyd is super skinny and I wasn't a fan of the pick but unlike McClellin he does flash crazy athleticism and explosiveness. Everyone talks about the offense being worse and I don't see it. Gase was overrated and not much will change there. Their best plays last year were when their best player (Cutler) made great plays outside of the actual offense. Everyone looks at the losses of Forte and Bennett. Their OL is better and WR are much better. Miller will have a huge year barring health. Bears should be solid.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) He's our annual "underdog white guy fan favorite" but I think he's a lot better than the rest. He's actually good though. And was a draft pick. He was mentioned as a 4th-5th round guy by many draft types

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 4, 2016 -> 07:25 AM) Outcome 1) If Hahn and KW are here for some reason, expect some more retooling. Sign some old, washed up veterans to fill in gaps in CF, C and DH etc.. They will try to bring back Robin, but he will leave on his own-- so they hire Sandy Alomar Jr to replace him-- another white sox-- JR guy. Same story, different corporate puppet. Outcome 2) If JR has the decency to finally do what's right and move on from KW and Hahn (their contracts expire after this season), and he brings in a new GM from outside the organization, than I expect a full blown rebuild. We are talking new scouts and a new philosophy from the top down. He will even have the ability to hire his own manager and coaching staff. The new GMs first big move,trade Sale to a team for a kings ransom-- the rebuild begins. Sadly, I believe outcome #1 is the more likely of the two scenarios. This organization is a joke and will continue to operate in the same manner. Apparently they believe one of these seasons, they will finally catch lightning in a bottle and 'outsmart' their competition. I mean who needs depth in the farm? That's soo overrated! I'd be totally fine with Sandy Alomar as manager.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) When you have young players that you are developing like Anderson, Tilson, Rodon, Saladino and Sanchez there are no such things as meaningless games. You can't root for a team to lose but expect these players to do well and develop into what we need them to. Winning and good play go hand in hand. Shouldn't Lawrie be included in this if Saladino is?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 09:23 PM) Looking for good shows to watch on TV. Also interested in seekers on Showtime / HBO... As well as Netflix series / movies. Lately I saw a Jim Carey movie based on a true story that was well done on Netflix. Dark comedy vein. Called, "I love you Philip Morris." Best thing on TV right now? Ray Donavan. That shows getting more and more bad ass this year. Your turn. Bloodline is excellent

I don't want to spoil the ending for anyone but OMG. Bananas is well...wow.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) They may be able to work out waiver deals for Melky and Robertson. Shields no chance - he'll sail through and it won't matter. I have much more confidence in Aranaudo pitching well next year than Shields. Melky has value though. Barring changes in the CBA, Sox need more value than a comp pick next offseason for Cabrera in a trade. Same deal for Frazier.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) Puig's OPS is about .030 better than Avi's. The Dodgers are going to have to eat some cash or take on some unwanted contract to move him. He has an .800 OPS over his last 30 games, has shown signs of being really good, and is a better defender than Avi.

Shields' peripherals are awful. He's Latos with much better luck. They should dump him and save the $22 million if they can. I think Robertson could be moved even if claimed and Morneau should clear and be moved as well. Could see some action this month.

No.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) But if you see this team going nowhere, you are basically wasting a year of realigning the strategy of your team. It's distracting and not really a compelling way to lead a team to the playoffs as fast as possible. Absolutely. Trading guys for less than they are worth and dumping them just because makes you further away from the playoffs though IMO. Obviously we have no idea what wa soffered though.

QUOTE (shakes @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) I'm sorry, but this is living in absolute fantasyland. This is the same rationalizing we see every year that has lead to the White Sox being 62 games under .500 the last three seasons, with another season headed down that same path. And frankly, the positive regressions you highlight do not nearly make up the difference for the Sox making the playoffs. And that is ignoring the fact that this is likely the player Frazier is, he isn't doing anything that is really outside his career norms, and Sale, Q, Eaton, Melky, Jones are all healthy and have years towards the high end of their career production, and it is very unlikely we see the recent contributions Gonzalez and Sheilds are giving the Sox. As far as Rodon goes, well the book is absolutely out on him, but the rushed promotions do not seem to be helping him and so far Fulmer is looking like he needs more development to even contribute as a reliable bullpen arm. Which brings up another argument against contention, the Sox just traded their second most reliable bullpen arm for what is widely considered a 4th outfielder who will be thrust immediately into a starting role. All of this is complicated by the fact that every team has injuries and regressions and the Sox have a farm system that produces no depth and ready made replacements which is a big reason the team fades down the stretch every year, and is falling into that patter yet again. Believing the Sox will enter the big boy market and sell assets, who are worth less this time next year, and spend wildly back into contention because the money will be off the books is just ignoring everything about their history and how they operate. Their is no defensible position for contention next year. The Sox are closer to the Reds than they are the Red Sox as an organization. Their really is nothing they do well at this point top to bottom. I can't think of a single thing. They have developed two star pitchers in the last six years and appear content to just throw away their primes. This is a real nadir as a Sox fan. I don't think their assets are worth less this time next year. They can get a similar package to what was offered for Sale and Q at that time. Frazier and Melky will be free agents. Teams have been overpaying for going to be free agents and Sox would also have comp pick option if CBA stays similar.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 08:19 AM) I'm bored too -- I get it, I really do. But if you take a step back and look at the situation and the options, the roster is built to push through 2017. I have no doubt that Hahn considered changing that course after his "mired in mediocrity" statement, but I have to assume that teams were not willing to pay up. Rather than make a bad deal simply for the sake of changing something, there's an argument to be made to let things play out. I'm sure he could have moved some relievers and role players, but if the returns aren't meaningful, there's value in retaining the flexibility of competing in 2017 into this offseason, where I have no doubt that he'll try to see what he can get out of Sale/Quintana again. For those asking "what can possibly be done to improve the team's chances in 2017," it starts with Abreu being Abreu, Frazier being Frazier, and Rodon finally turning into Rodon. Those guys have been bad, but there doesn't appear to be any physical reason, and the reality is just that sometimes guys have bad years. Remember when David Ortiz was cooked? Remember when Carlos Beltran was useless? Remember when it was ridiculous to acquire John Lackey? There are a ton of examples of teams giving up on good players only to see them flourish later, often elsewhere. We're all real good at coming up with convenient ad hoc explanations like "toxic clubhouse" or "new training program" or "obvious contract year effort" and other unsubstantiated, random crap, but when we do that, we're ignoring the fact that baseball is a competition where two really good players are doing everything they can to stop the other from succeeding, and no matter how much talent there is, one of them ALWAYS has to lose. Team sports aren't just coming in and pushing buttons -- sometimes you simply get beat. If any those players simply did what was reasonably expected, we'd probably be a couple games over .500. If ALL of them simply did what they were reasonably expected, we'd be in the thick of the playoff hunt. Is the consistent disappointment of the team a systemic problem of the organization? Maybe. But if you're Rick Hahn, you're not going to fire yourself. You're going to do what ALL of us do every day: you're going to assume you're capable of doing your job, and make the best decision you can given the hand in front of you. It's totally fair to be disappointed and upset -- I am too. But the decision to hold onto controllable assets into this offseason is absolutely a defensible decision, even if it's boring and feels bad. It very well may turn out to be the wrong one (assuming the offers on the table were what we think), and you certainly DON'T have to like it or agree with it, but it's a far cry from obvious incompetence. In case anyone doesn't know about it, this is an awesome resource for when you want to start taking stock of the offseason: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ9...pub?output=html Note the contracts that come off the books after next season: Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Gonzalez. If we fail next year, all those guys will be hot deadline chips. Shields and Robertson will each have ~1.5yr/~$15m remaining, and will also be good chips if they're pitching well. Jones and Jennings will still have multiple years of control remaining. Sale and Quintana will be essentially JUST as valuable, but the team will be in a clearer position to sell. And that's IF we fail. Those aforementioned bouncebacks could get us most of the way to contention, and I'm assuming Avisail Garcia will FINALLY be non-tendered, so we may just have a shot. The offseason shopping list is clear and achievable: catcher, first base/DH, corner OF. This is an awesome post and sum up my feelings nicely. We are usually pretty lockstep though so I'm not surprised. The White Sox will be heading to the Winter Meetings with the 2 best pitchers available (Sale, Q) and will have Frazier, Lawrie, Melky, and Gonzalez as free agents. The White Sox will be a trading post. But what if they take one more run at it? What if they try to sign Adam Lind to a 1-2 year deal to DH. What if they find a way to acquire Puig somehow? That doesn't stop you from selling of Frazier, Melky etc at the deadline if it fails again. IT also doesn't stop you from getting a similar package to what is being offered right now for Sale and Q. As much as people would hate this strategy, if you are Rick Hahn, I understand taking one more shot. It requires cash though and it also requires not giving up any more draft picks. This offseason will be extremely interesting one way or another.