Y2Jimmy0

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 07:38 AM) Because I knew Hahn would never do it...unless it didn't cost him a draft pick. And that Hahn's ego would never allow him to admit that trading for Shark was a disaster, but at least he had that draft pick that he could hang his hat on and push the analysis of the overall impact of the trade 2-3 years into the future. From my perspective, I though JR would look at it as $2 million saved from the draft pool so Desmond would actually cost only $6 million net...but, to Hahn, the Burdi and Hansen picks and the ability to sign both of them were going to be what he partially staked his position on (now it seems that the James Shields Death March is causing this to be completely overlooked). It's not what I would have done, I was simply trying to predict what our front office would do. Maybe I should make separate statements in every post for my own personal thoughts/ideas/recommendations and WHAT THE SOX WILL ACTUALLY DO, even if it's illogical/inane. From the moment they didn't trade Samardzija last July, the die was cast about not giving up that pick for anyone but Alex Gordon/Upton. I was HOPING he would last until June, but obviously that didn't happen because the Rangers understood his versatility and athletic ability. I must have posted 150-200 times over the offseason why I thought he would be a good signing, IN GENERAL. Why I thought he would be fine in the outfield (and he has been) and why it made perfect sense for the White Sox to sign him for one season to hold down the fort for Anderson while helping to make this year's team more competitive. I posted about it again and again and again until I was blue in the face, and the majority of posters were against it 1) because of his defense at SS, 2) because of his offense falling off the last year or so 3) because he was a NL player, etc. I would say it was about 15-20% for, 80-85% against. I also argued that Desmond could not only play LF/CF but he also might be able to play 2B or 3B in a pinch...he's just a very good athlete, and all the pressure of passing on that $107 million/7 year extension just got the best of him and it led to a disaster of a season because he was distracted by off field issues. Sure, that's an excuse, and it SHOULDN'T have happened, but that doesn't mean it doesn't or can't happen to pro athletes when hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake. I thought the motivation of playing for a similar contract to the one he turned down would be the spark he needed...and that the line-up in Texas would give him a ton of protection to put up some really good numbers without expectations for him being so high or as high as they would have been had he stayed in Washington with that contract extension around his neck and the attendant expectations that went with it. I'm glad they didn't give up a 1st round pick to sign Fowler or Desmond. Those guys aren't worth it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 05:42 PM) They won't even give him a vote of confidence. For an organization that doesn't like to telegraph its moves, that is a jarring non-statement. I think the fact that Rick Hahn is in Boston is a bigger deal than people think too.

Colleen Kane ‏@ChiTribKane 2m2 minutes ago Rick Hahn gave same line on Robin Ventura: "I don’t think it’s in anybody’s best interest to comment on the status of anybody in uniform."

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 04:47 PM) While not a starter, it feels like based on how he's been in big league camp they like Austin's defense enough that he'll be a AAA catcher that will see some time. I forgot about him. Also have Casey Schroeder at WS and the recent draftee from St. Mary's as well.

QUOTE (SouthWallace @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) If I read Baseball Reference correctly, Coats has played CF in 43 of his 444 some odd minor league games. Makes perfect sense. #RobinLogic The lineup is wrong. Eaton is in CF with Coats in RF

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 04:41 PM) JJ Stankevitz ‏@JJStankevitz 17m17 minutes ago Boston, MA Rick Hahn on James Shields: "We believe the issues are fixable." Focus on mechanics. #WhiteSoxTalk Does this mean that Rick Hahn is in Boston?

I don't expect Burdi, Hansen, or Anderson to be in AZL for long. Also, it's amazing at how quickly they've built up some catching depth. Collins will be here shortly, Zavala has some promise, and Perez, Alfaro, and Hickman are all in the system as well. This team along with Great Falls should be fun follows.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/6/20/1197...-jerry-its-over

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) FutureSox ‏@FutureSox 45m45 minutes ago OF Luis Mieses linked with #WhiteSox in this report on J2 names: Ben Badler wrote about him. Here are some notes: Just turned 16. Left-Handed OF 6-4 185 pounds Standout offensive game: good swing, and ability to hit for big power shown in games Plus arm for RF Not much a runner and defense needs work $500,000.00

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:54 AM) He's having a great year, and I personally would have him in the top 5 now. But they don't vote now. In my opinion, come actual voting time--Sale, Hamels, Salazar, a few other guys will have proven out over 33 starts to be better than Q. And that's ok. Quintana is good, he's just never winning a Cy. Some of those guys may end up with better years. I never said they wouldn't. I said he should be the current leader as he's having the best season up to this point.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) If Rodon wants to take the money early, he'll do it regardless of what Boras wants. Rodon has been pretty solid for a young pitcher so far, but has not exactly been setting the world on fire, which reduces his leverage. Regardless, Rodon can't hit free agency until 2022, so he's part of the rebuilding plan, regardless of what he chooses to do. Renteria is arguably a better fit at this point because he's familiar with the current players and the organization. Continuity is important, which is why a lot of bench coaches get promoted when their managers are axed. The Sox didn't hire a reasonably successful former manager as a bench coach to be a bench coach for long. That doesn't necessarily mean that Alomar won't be managing the Sox next year, but I think that Renteria has to be their first choice at this point. Alomar's refusal to take the bench coaching job this past winter may have also been the polite way of saying that he's not all that into the Sox. NO. It's because he saw the writing on the wall of Ventura getting fired in season and didn't want to be the Elephant in he room with people clamoring for him to be the replacement.

Here are fangraphs 2016 dashboard stats so far: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=2016&ind=0 And here are the Advanced Stats: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 He's clearly been the best pitcher in the AL so far this year.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) It's not gospel, but the ESPN Cy Predictor doesn't have Quintana in the top 10 now. Sale would win today, as he should, but Hamels and few other guys will be there at the end of the season. Q won't. Well congrats. I don't think ESPN is a viable news outlet. Quintana has accumulated a 3.1 fWAR with a ERA of 2.63 and a 2.60 FIP. Corey Kluber is the next closest. If their system doesn't have him in or near the top, then their system is a f***ing joke that shouldn't be taken seriously.

This isn't really about Danks and Latos though. Why do people insist on bringing them up? Danks and Latos were both done. Latos was cheap and is gone. If Shields were also cheap, he'd probably be gone soon too. Shields costs $22 million over the next 2 seasons so there is every incentive to try and figure something out. Trading for Shields might have been stupid but it doesn't mean they should have just kept Danks or Latos

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) Well then what is the deal with Shields. Was that totally JR? Was it KW, was it Hahn? I think it was all 3. I really don't see where anyone can come to the conclusion that Hahn wants to blow it up. Has he ever hinted it? I think it is just people who want the White Sox to blow it up who are hoping beyond hope Rick Hahn agrees with them. I don't think he does, and my source, which is nobody, is just as good as the source that says he wants to get rid of everyone. I agree with this. I think Hahn and KW both weighed the risk and the reward and trusted their scouts and acquired Shields. I think the White Sox have a pro scouting and advanced scouting problem but that's another issue. I don't think Rick Hahn wants to blow it up either. Not sure he could decide to do that without JR's blessing is what I mean though. If Reinsdorf wants to win and keep going for it, they are going to do that. His "going for it' is a half-assed attempt though.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:31 AM) You may be right about Rodon, but young pitchers are far more inclined than position players to to take the big payday when they can. Sale and Q both did. Injuries frequently destroy pitching careers. I disagree with you about Renteria. He was clearly (to me) brought in here to eventually replace RV, as he's had decent success as a manager and is fluent in Spanish. When JR fires (or "promotes") RV this winter, I guarantee you that Renteria will be offered the job. Whether or not he takes it may be a different story. Carlos Rodon has Scott Boras as an agent. I think it's very unlikely even though I'd be trying to lock down something right now. Sandy Alomar was choice #1 for Bench coach and he declined out of respect for Ventura. I believe and will believe until it's not that he's the next permanent manager of the White Sox

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:18 AM) Do you mean that there was some "wink and nod" agreement with Boras that the Sox would get his major league clock rolling within a year, in return for signing at slot or thereabouts? Everything is a contrivance with this organization. They can't do normal development. And it may not work out so well for Rodon either. And it's beyond time for Cooper to go. Yes. He signed for $6.8 million and one of the reasons was because he was going to be on a quick trajectory. It's working out fine for Rodon. He's on path to be a legit #1-#2 at some point next year. Rodon is the least of their worries.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:21 AM) The Sox have committed too much money and have too much talent in the clubhouse to blow it up right now. I'd say that they're at least 12 months from that point. If I were in Hahn's position, I'd sign Rodon, Lawrie, and Frazier (assuming that he starts hitting again) to extensions this winter and do what I can to address DH, C, and CF. If the Sox are struggling in July of 2017, I'd seriously consider dealing Sale, Robertson, and Jones to the highest bidders at the deadline. I wouldn't do a full rebuild, as they should have enough of a core at that point to compete in 2019. That core would include Quintana, Rodon, Fulmer (hopefully), Eaton, Anderson, and Frazier (see above). If I were JR, I'd look to replace Kenny with Hahn and hire a new GM in the winter of 2017/2018. I'm assuming that Renteria will be our opening day manager in 2017 and I'd keep him and his staff in place during the partial rebuild. THere's no way that Rodon is signing an extension and I very much doubt that Renteria is managing next season. Sandy Alomar much more likely in my opinion.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:12 AM) To each their own. Quintana is having a great year as always, but he's not winning a Cy. He should clearly be the AL favorite though. It's not that close either.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:34 AM) Can we all just drop the Hahn wants something totally different, his hands may be tied, he is just doing what he is told line of thinking. He has worked with KW and JR for years and years and years. He's had opportunities to go elsewhere. If his philosophy is polar opposite of KW and JR, he either wouldn't be employed by the team, or is too weak to be a guy making decisions. Okay. People's gripe should be that Rick Hahn is okay with being in charge but not really being in charge. I think Rick is responsible for all of the moves but Reinsdorf obviously has to sign off on all of them. That's my point. Rick Hahn may see a viable scenario in which selling off parts makes sense. Kenny may feel the same way but if JR doesn't want to do that, then they need to do what is currently being done.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) The ONLY reasons to care right now are Tim Anderson and seeing how those first three draft picks do.... That's ridiculous. I love watching Sale, Quintana, and Rodon pitch. Quintana should be the frontrunner for the AL Cy Young.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) If he really does, why did he start trading for rents when he had a young core of 4 and a still developing system? His story would be different had he had some patience....maybe Williams wouldn't let him be patient. And, indeed, he had no chance if his orders were to build a winner with the Sox budget and veterans (Sox budget isn't that bad, but it's insufficient to build a team if you insist on veterans). It's not even Williams. They have an 80 year old owner that wants to win. It's pretty much that simple.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:39 AM) I think Rick Hahn is the most interesting part of this. He somehow makes these deals that at the time, seem OK, if not decent moves for us then they turn out to be absolute nightmares. If you're a true White Sox fan, you can't honestly say that the last couple Hot Stove seasons haven't been exciting to follow. Watching us land top free agent talent the last 2 years has given us hope. It wasn't too long ago where we were all like "Wow...not just Jeff Samardzija, but David Robertson TOO!? Holy crap! Nice LH power bat--LaRoche. Then days later--Melky Cabrera!? Then last year, Todd freaking Frazier--still in his prime years?! Nice grab of Lawrie--not really costing us much and plugging a hole. He gets great write ups from good sports writers talking about how he's doing such a great job with what little he has to work with and has landed some solid names at bargain prices while not giving up much--Thompson and Montas being the most notable--but he's been able to keep Fulmer, Anderson and a few others. These free agents and trade target guys succeed elsewhere, then get here and FLOP--every time. People then turn to guys like Robin and point the fingers. But really there is a fundamental problem...a "corner" that we are backing ourselves into and that is this: We are trying to piece together a team based on who is available in the FREE AGENT market each year instead of drafting well and developing a core of players. This strategy RARELY works and takes such a deep pocket to even employ that only a few teams can support (Boston/New York). The argument can be made--well the guys we've given up haven't been that great (with the exception of Trayce), but they are forgetting that there's value in developing a core group of young talent at the single A level, keeping them together and moving that core of players up through the system until they reach the bigs. From the very beginning, the players always feel a part of the bigger plan and develop a sense of belonging to that plan and the other players in that plan. All it takes is 1 of those core players to get the big league call and it starts an all-out frenzy from the other core prospects to be next. They see their friend get up and they believe in the system and what it holds for THEM. You have strength in that core group--in other words--the beginnings of a TEAM. (Insert soft patriotic music playing in the background). Every time we deal for a MLB vet, it usually costs us 1-3 pieces of our potential core. It also takes a job away from someone who has spent years in the minors working towards that position. They are always a victim of the depth chart--mentally messed up because they have been talked up (to increase buzz and trade value) but then watch old or underachieving MLB vets like Jimmy Rollins, Austin Jackson and Mat Latos move in and take their job right as camp breaks in to the regular season. Don't think that most players in our farm system don't realize that they are essentially bait the way our front office works. They disconnect from the plan early--and even our top prospects have in the back of their minds that our organization is bad enough that drastic measures take place frequently--even THEY are not safe. You never have a "Core" anything at any level. You never have a group of guys who develop together with a "let's stick together and conquer the world" mentality that forms when you're making $300/month, sleeping on bus floors in the minors. You see guys putting their time in to essentially get traded to an organization where they CAN be a part of something bigger--not just to be a throw in name in a deal for an under-achieving stop gap 2nd baseman. But that's the corner we are in. Only salvaging the MLB roster matters for us--trying to put together a "sellable" attraction to this summer's fans. Meanwhile, you have nothing but a collection of broken (yet expensive) parts and no ecosystem to foster any type of growth at any level in your organization. Their day-to-day approach rules the decisions made--if we lose, we go get someone else, if we win, we keep them--there is no commitment to the future. There's never room on the MLB roster that is reserved for a core group of players developed by the organization. Rick Hahn has executed the plan that was given with the funds he's been provided. His job is ridiculously hard. Rick Hahn understands the value of a thriving and valuable system. The White Sox drafts have been much improved over the last 4 years. There was nothing in the system prior to that. It was multiple years of poor drafting and development that got the Sox into this mess. The only way out? Multiple years of good drafting and development. The White Sox have some very good starting pitching signed for cheap. They also have Jose Abreu and Adam Eaton for very cheap. Jerry Reinsdorf IMO, is the biggest problem and there's probably nothing that can be done about it until he dies and the team is sold. They take half measures because he wants to take half measures. They want to supplement the core with lightning in the bottle signings and free agents. They don't want to give up draft picks every year(thank god) to sign free agents but they also don't shell out $$ for the big names. They made very substantial offers to Alex Gordon and Yoenis Cespedes this offseason and it didn't work out. It's extremely frustrating because they started the year a couple players short with the mindset that they'd add in season. They may be too far out of it to ever get back in though. Bottom Line: They probably need to either sell off parts or raise the payroll about $40-$50 million. What they will most likely do: Add a LHB with some control (Bruce) and add a reliever or 2 in an attempt to win the WC or division this season while bringing back most of the same guys with a couple more additions for another potential run next season with a new manager. It's just what they do.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) We've declared that for the rest of the season we're going to find the best seats possible and sit different places every time... for the cheapest price possible. I'm not going to pay any significant price to watch this anymore, but I do still enjoy the live game experience, even if we suck. This weekend, we're enjoying first row UD down the 3B line for $10 each. Can't wait to see what $10-or-less seats we'll have for the next one. That's about all it's worth now--and even that might be high. I bought OF bleachers last Wednesday for $18 per ticket and sat in row 5 behind Tigers dugout for entire game. Nobody cares.

Michael Jordan at age 31: 3 titles, 3 MVPs. LeBron James at age 31: 3 titles, 4 MVPs. I don't think LeBron is better and he started sooner but some context.